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How US auto industry is presented in your country #1529015
11/05/13 05:17 PM
11/05/13 05:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 238
Flint. Michigan
BigBlockHead Offline OP
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Flint. Michigan
Dear fellow foreigners of Moparts,

As some of might know, I am Finnish student who studies currently in Michigan.
When I lived in Finland I noticed that lot of main stream publications talk always in negative way about American cars and the whole industry. Of course during the chapter 11 of GM and Chrysler there were negative things to talk about, but I noticed that nobody was so much interested of researching reasons behind the failures.
Main argument was "Quality is bad and people don't want to buy big cars compared to superior European and Japanese cars". Of course Finns (and any other nationalities) tend to lean more on the products that are commonly available on their markets, but I would have wanted to see even one editor/publisher who would go more in depth of the subjects. Of course there are publications (classic car magazines) who are more positive about american made cars, but they are not as much main stream.

How is US auto industry presented in your country? Do you think it's the same thing in all countries were Japanese/European cars dominate the markets and people have little knowledge of American cars?

I am currently working on a project at school and some answers would be good to hear! So, thank you in advance!

Markku

Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: BigBlockHead] #1529016
11/05/13 05:31 PM
11/05/13 05:31 PM
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GTX MATT Offline
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It is generally presented as negative, and we have a large consumer base that is very misinformed and relies on the opinions of self-proclaimed authorities who know very little about the subject matter at hand, such as Consumer Guide. Young people have come to accept this mentality that American cars are junk despite the fact that American cars produced for the past 20 years have been on par or exceeding their counterparts worldwide from a longevity standpoint.

Additionally, there are old people like my 70 year old grand mother who think that American cars with 100k miles need an engine overhaul because thats how it was in the 60s. She thinks my 217K mile Lumina is a wonder.

By the way it still kicks over 180 psi of cranking compression.


Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: BigBlockHead] #1529017
11/05/13 06:10 PM
11/05/13 06:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Irving, TX
feets Offline
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feets  Offline
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Irving, TX
Compare interiors on a 2010 Charger and a 2012 Charger. That 2010 is crap in comparison to the much nicer 2012.

This is the kind of thing the auto writers get wrapped up about. When you compare the interior feel and exterior fit/finish to upscale cars from other markets there is a big difference.
There were miles of difference between a 2010 Charger/300 to a 2010 ES350 or GS350. In comparison the American cars are crap.

The US auto industry does not have a luxury car to compete with the foreign products. The Cadillac is crossing over from the near-luxury market to compete with Mercedes and Lexus but it's not there yet. Sure, it's nice but spend time behind the wheel of the luxury cars and differences become apparent.

One of the favorite moves of the Top Gear staff is pushing on the rear panel of the Corvette with their fingers. The whole back end squishes about. I can't think of a European car with the same issue. Even my smart isn't that squishy. That may not be a quality issue but it is definitely an attention to detail opportunity.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: GTX MATT] #1529018
11/05/13 06:28 PM
11/05/13 06:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,359
Buzzard County, FL
IronWolf Offline
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Buzzard County, FL
I am an American. I buy new American cars. I support American workers. The products we Americans make are still durable and well-made. I guess I am clueless and ignorant ?

Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: IronWolf] #1529019
11/05/13 06:36 PM
11/05/13 06:36 PM
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Turku, Finland
Forwardlook Offline
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Turku, Finland
I am a Finn and I would never buy anything else than American. To me the other stuff seems cheap and flimsy. Regarding the cheap feeling Chrysler interiors, they are fairly decent considering that Daimler cut the interior budgets 40% while they robbed the company clean.

What is said in Europe about American cars is largely a political issue. Another thing is the psychological issue. When the lie is repeated for decades it becomes the truth. American cars are an oddity to the average consumer. And it is always a safe bet to go with the masses in your opinions. Besides, the cars are so expensive here that it is also easy to hate what you can't afford but maybe that darn neighbor can.

And don't get me started on those topgear maroons...


Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: feets] #1529020
11/05/13 06:47 PM
11/05/13 06:47 PM
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GTX MATT Offline
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Quote:

Compare interiors on a 2010 Charger and a 2012 Charger. That 2010 is crap in comparison to the much nicer 2012.




Compare the interiors of my '98 Chevy Lumina and a '98 Toyota Camry. My Lumina was nicer, plusher, and way more comfortable. My car also had more power with the base engine. A Charger does not compares to a Lexus, the 300C compares to the Lexus.

The 2010 more door Charger is a piece of crap compared to anything.

Last edited by GTX MATT; 11/05/13 06:47 PM.

Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: GTX MATT] #1529021
11/05/13 07:32 PM
11/05/13 07:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
feets Offline
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Quote:


Compare the interiors of my '98 Chevy Lumina and a '98 Toyota Camry. My Lumina was nicer, plusher, and way more comfortable. My car also had more power with the base engine.




Different era.



Quote:


A Charger does not compares to a Lexus, the 300C compares to the Lexus.




A 300C does not compare to a Lexus. A GS350 blows the Chrysler away. Perhaps you missed that.

Quote:


The 2010 more door Charger is a piece of crap compared to anything.




The Charger is more than competitive in the US auto industry. Perhaps your mind is crap because you can't get past the 2 extra doors.

A E63 will shred a Challenger SRT8. I guess the extra doors don't slow it down.

http://www.youtube.com/v/59fZMmziw6U


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: Forwardlook] #1529022
11/06/13 01:39 AM
11/06/13 01:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 238
Flint. Michigan
BigBlockHead Offline OP
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Flint. Michigan
People, this thread was not meant to be who is better US or European manufacturers. I am sure, it would be never ending fight.

Quote:


What is said in Europe about American cars is largely a political issue. Another thing is the psychological issue. When the lie is repeated for decades it becomes the truth. American cars are an oddity to the average consumer. And it is always a safe bet to go with the masses in your opinions. Besides, the cars are so expensive here that it is also easy to hate what you can't afford but maybe that darn neighbor can.

And don't get me started on those topgear maroons...






I agree with Forwardlook. In Europe American cars were used to referred as symbols of capitalism - in the era of cold war you could easily see what ideology journalist was supporting.
I remember reading an old automotive magazines, in this magazine the same editor always from year to another, blamed American manufacturers about "cars are too big, too much chrome, fins were too tall, engines were too big and powerful, fuel consumption was too high, suspension is too soft, wood imitation on dashboard looks outdated"... This has nothing to do with quality. In my opinion it reflects more writers own agenda than any reasonable arguments. Not even once he was asking the question: "Why?", if product portfolio is different in USA than in Europe it doesn't mean it's bad quality. (This is not referring to any comments on the board, but on the articles this guy wrote).

Last edited by BigBlockHead; 11/06/13 01:41 AM.
Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: feets] #1529023
11/06/13 04:37 AM
11/06/13 04:37 AM
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GTX MATT Offline
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Quote:


The 2010 more door Charger is a piece of crap compared to anything.




The Charger is more than competitive in the US auto industry. Perhaps your mind is crap because you can't get past the 2 extra doors




Perhaps your understanding is crap. It has nothing to do with the extra doors, those Chargers feel cheap compared to anything. And whether or not the 300C competes well with the Lexus, my point is that the Dodge is the mainstream brand like Toyota. The 300C is the more luxury oriented model, like a Lexus.


Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: feets] #1529024
11/06/13 04:46 AM
11/06/13 04:46 AM
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Quote:


A E63 will shred a Challenger SRT8. I guess the extra doors don't slow it down.

http://www.youtube.com/v/59fZMmziw6U




It certainly will, and for 40k more it sure better. How does it fare against a CTSV, Z06, or GT500?


Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: BigBlockHead] #1529025
11/06/13 05:00 AM
11/06/13 05:00 AM
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Melbourne.....Oz-land
Moparmal Offline
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Melbourne.....Oz-land
In Australia we are starved of most of the more "mainstream" US models - Private importations of a CHallenger or Mudstain or Craparo cost around $100 grand by the time they are converted to right steer and "complianced" to Australian Design Rule standards - things like indicator colour, seat belts and air bags meeting Australian test standards and fuel tank location all have to be met.

This is not to say the US car has "bad" seat belts - just that it must be fitted with a brand that is tested and meets standard in Australia - We are seriously over-governed and over-taxed, over here...but that's the way they keep our medical and roads, schools etc up to high end world standard.

Our local manufacturers still make the GM Holden Commodore ( Called the Lumina in the Middle east! ) - basically a four door GTO - but Ford will be discontinuing the rear drive Falcon (Kind of a rear drive Taurus) very shortly.

Both cars are comparable with = US makers Impala and Taurus...except we have 4 door performance models that are comparable with the Charger.

The 300C caused quite a wave of excitement when it first hit out shores.... but the motoring press went out of their way to "can" it...they focussed on silly pedantic issues that were no better on the = GM or Ford local product.

This was because Chrysler LLD have never spent money on advertising with magazines/Newspapers - only TV.

The new 6.4 300C has left the press with nowhere to go - so they compare it to the M5 and the AMG63...conveniently forgetting its HALF the price of those cars.

Last review of the Grand Cherokee was a "drag race" between it and the Mercedes ML63 AMG!! ,..which beat it by 1/2 second over the qtr mile - But of course they forgot to mention the Jeep GC was 76K...the ML63 AMG was $177K!!!

This is the sort of bias that goes on in our motoring press

So in summary - unless its a Jeep..US stuff is seen as an "oddity"..owned by few and appreciated by not many more...irrespective of how good the car actually is.

Euro stuff is what everyone aspires too....Japanese, Korean and local GM/Fraud are seen as acceptable by most.....and Korean is popular amongst the cheaper model lines....even though the Kia Sportage won best SUV under 40K for two years in a row and stands out as a quality small SUV.

BTW - a price comparison -

AMG63 - $150,000
SRT8 300C - $75,000
Holden Commodore SS - (basically a four door GTO) - $48,000
Dodge Nitro - $43,000

Or a privately imported MY 13 Viper will cost $150,000

So you can see - our new car market is significantly more expensive than the US.


67 RO23 clone with 6.1 SRT Hemi and dual quads. Soon to have Drag Pak induction and Throttle body.
Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: Moparmal] #1529026
11/06/13 05:34 AM
11/06/13 05:34 AM
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart Offline
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Here is reality. Sheeple were told that American cars suck and Japanese/German cars crapola did not stink and they bought it. Sure there were some issues in the 80's but those things were worked out but the writing was already on the wall and the sheeple decided that the media was right and all American cars SUCKEDDDD! No need to look further, that is the facts...


The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.

JB Rhinehart, Realist

A-Body's RULE!
Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: Rhinodart] #1529027
11/06/13 06:41 AM
11/06/13 06:41 AM
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Melbourne.....Oz-land
Moparmal Offline
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I think the real issue is that you pay much more for US product in a lot of countries than the local or Euro equivalent...tariff protection and import costs jack the price.

Thus the product ends up getting compared with higher pitched local product.

The other issue - like it or not - is that a large # of US product are V8 equipped -

With Gas at $12 bucks a gallon in Europe....US cars are right in "no mans land" as far as pricing.

The Sheiks and Execs will buy the Mercs and BMWs for the "name"...gas price no object.

....the Sole business operators/Junior Execs will buy Volvo/Peugot/Jag/Lexus//Honda for the mileage.....leaving Mr Charger out there in the cold.....

Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: Moparmal] #1529028
11/06/13 08:04 AM
11/06/13 08:04 AM
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Athens, Greece
Pyper70 Offline
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Living where I live.....and gas being $9/gallon....people are still buying the Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.7 Liter engines. They are still buying the Jeep Compass, The crossfire when it was still being sent here. They think its a sign of luxury when they buy an a modern American car but they are soon weeping when the gas bill comes in or the tax man comes a knockin. I know first hand how expensive it is because I have a 1992 GMC Safari with a 4.3L engine...Mind you, thats a 4.3L now...Every year you get taxed based on the size of your engine, the bill for the GMC came and it was $2540 for JUST this year....I surrendered my plates which makes me exempt from paying because I just dont drive the car that much.

When people see an American classic...they oooh and aaah...just like in the US...the difference is...here...they think because you have a nice car that you are doing something dirty to afford the gas...I still retain about 16-18mpg but all the other people here is money being burned by an engine. The average wage of a person here $1000 a month and I just spent $225 to fill up my tank...but I haven't driven her in a month...they don't know that though, they may think I am out every day with her).

Me personally, If you gave me $40k to guy buy a car, I wouldn't even look to the US Car Makers....I want a nice sporty car, with a 2 liter maybe 2.5 liter engine, agile in corners, and a 5spd/6spd ... I choose the Audi A5. The yearly price tag for me in taxes will be like 400 bucks. Its still a pipe dream...I drive an 04' Chevy with a 1.6L / 5spd with 127,000km (80,000miles) on the odometer


Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: Moparmal] #1529029
11/06/13 09:43 AM
11/06/13 09:43 AM
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Turku, Finland
Forwardlook Offline
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Turku, Finland
Rhino forced me to drive a Camry on my last trip. I have to say that it was the cheapest feeling car I have driven in a long time. And those are expensive cars in Europe. I wouldn't buy a new one even for a thousand bucks.

And yes, the high taxes and countless modifications make American cars a lot more expensive in Europe. There is no car tax in Sweden but a new Challenger R/T is still about $60K. In Finland you have to pay closer to $100K. And you have no official dealer network or service. That is why you can never have high sales of these cars. The majority goes to hardcore US car enthusiasts. Europe is a very closed society when it comes to vehicles. We have been "nudged" by the politicians to make the "right" choices.

Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: Forwardlook] #1529030
11/06/13 10:11 AM
11/06/13 10:11 AM
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Greer, SC
TooMany62s Offline
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Greer, SC
As a retired supplier to the auto industry I can tell you this; If I were to tell Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, etc, that I could produce a piston that was far better but cost 15% more, they all would send a squad of engineers to investigate. If I were to tell the US manufacturers the same thing, they would tell me they want a piston as good as they're already getting for 10% less. The simple difference is the foreign companies tend to be run by engineers and are more focused on the product. The Detroit companies are run by accountants and are intensely focused on pennies. They will change suppliers to save a dime. Detroit purchasing people are closely measured by how much money the save not by improvements they make.

I saw an article yesterday that says GM lost market share again. Toyota continues to gain and they are brave enough to publish books on how they run their business; which the Detroit clowns ignore as they have for years.

Last edited by TooMany62s; 11/06/13 10:48 AM.
Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: TooMany62s] #1529031
11/06/13 10:25 AM
11/06/13 10:25 AM
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Brookline NH
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Brookline NH
US car consumers have a long memory. Take for instance the damage done to the US perception of automobile diesel engines done by the Oldsmobile diesel engines of the late 70s to mid 80s.

Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: Tesla_HV] #1529032
11/06/13 11:29 AM
11/06/13 11:29 AM
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Berlin, N.J.
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abodyjoe Offline
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Quote:

US car consumers have a long memory. Take for instance the damage done to the US perception of automobile diesel engines done by the Oldsmobile diesel engines of the late 70s to mid 80s.




bingo


Will Rogers — 'It takes a lifetime to build a good reputation, but you can lose it in a minute.'



.


It's better to keep your mouth shut and give the impression that you're stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

www.MoparMisfits.com
Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: GTX MATT] #1529033
11/06/13 12:39 PM
11/06/13 12:39 PM
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Irving, TX
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Irving, TX
Quote:

Quote:


A E63 will shred a Challenger SRT8. I guess the extra doors don't slow it down.

http://www.youtube.com/v/59fZMmziw6U




It certainly will, and for 40k more it sure better. How does it fare against a CTSV, Z06, or GT500?




All is fair on the street. Price doesn't matter when the other guy pulls up beside you.
The E63 stands toe to toe with the CTS-V.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: How US auto industry is presented in your country [Re: Moparmal] #1529034
11/06/13 12:46 PM
11/06/13 12:46 PM
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Irving, TX
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Quote:

I think the real issue is that you pay much more for US product in a lot of countries than the local or Euro equivalent...tariff protection and import costs jack the price.




The real issue in the US is that other countries dump cheap crap on our shores.
The US consumer is a whooore. Gimme cheap! Gimme now!
Look! That Korean crap box is shiny and cheap. Buy now! Buy now!

There still isn't a ton of money to go around so the cheap garbage gets the nod. That's why I drive a smart. My old Concorde was facing serious repair bills and needed electronic parts no longer made. I wasn't ready to take on a major car payment so I flipped the granny car and leased a smart from work. Factor in the cost of the lease, insurance, and fuel bill and I find a cost of $42/month for a car with a warranty.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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