Re: xr1 block nightmare
[Re: WHITEDART]
#1527111
11/06/13 05:42 AM
11/06/13 05:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,135 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,135
Melbourne , Australia
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It is a shame, most of the complaints I have seen have come down to the machining. If they're not doing the job right, go somewhere else. Paying a little more for the blocks to be machined correctly is much better than pallets of blocks you can't sell or scrap. Machining castings isn't a cake walk, but there are plenty of people who can do it properly.
Alan Jones
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Re: xr1 block nightmare
[Re: B G Racing]
#1527113
11/06/13 12:29 PM
11/06/13 12:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,060 Western New York
sixpackbee
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Western New York
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Bob, I fully intend on doing a drag type engine but right now head choice is the issue at large. I'd like to do a medium inch W2 that could be plugged into the Duster, with a trans change, for some of the bracket races when there is are no class events going on. We know the Duster is a very efficient chassis and we have a spare trans that is not as costly to operate as the class trans. This would put one of the blocks actually out there for many to see rather than taking our word on some dyno session. We all know how doubtful Moparts members seem to be.
1959 Bugeye Sprite 1967 Charger Black L code 1967 Coronet R/T Convert Green 440 auto bought from original owner 1968 Charger R/T Bronze 440 4 spd console AM/FM 1969 Super Bee WM21H B5 A40 D21 N96 1969 Barracuda Formula S 340 Convert pilot car 1969 Hemi Road Runner RM23J D32 Omaha orange 4.10 Dana N96 N85 1970 Super Bee WM23N FE5 V1X 3.91 axle package, N96 1970 Road Runner RM21N B3 V1X D13 1971 MG Midget 1971 Road Runner RM23H GW3, A57 1972 Road Runner RM23P FY1, D21
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Re: xr1 block nightmare
[Re: sixpackbee]
#1527114
11/06/13 01:04 PM
11/06/13 01:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Re: xr1 block nightmare
[Re: Quicktree]
#1527115
11/06/13 01:19 PM
11/06/13 01:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,060 Western New York
sixpackbee
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,060
Western New York
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Simply put. Time. I have none at the moment.
1959 Bugeye Sprite 1967 Charger Black L code 1967 Coronet R/T Convert Green 440 auto bought from original owner 1968 Charger R/T Bronze 440 4 spd console AM/FM 1969 Super Bee WM21H B5 A40 D21 N96 1969 Barracuda Formula S 340 Convert pilot car 1969 Hemi Road Runner RM23J D32 Omaha orange 4.10 Dana N96 N85 1970 Super Bee WM23N FE5 V1X 3.91 axle package, N96 1970 Road Runner RM21N B3 V1X D13 1971 MG Midget 1971 Road Runner RM23H GW3, A57 1972 Road Runner RM23P FY1, D21
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Re: xr1 block nightmare
[Re: sixpackbee]
#1527116
11/06/13 01:26 PM
11/06/13 01:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
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Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
Bob, I fully intend on doing a drag type engine but right now head choice is the issue at large. I'd like to do a medium inch W2 that could be plugged into the Duster, with a trans change, for some of the bracket races when there is are no class events going on. We know the Duster is a very efficient chassis and we have a spare trans that is not as costly to operate as the class trans. This would put one of the blocks actually out there for many to see rather than taking our word on some dyno session. We all know how doubtful Moparts members seem to be.
Holgar,that's what I want to hear We would be willing to help you with this project if your too busy.
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Re: xr1 block nightmare
[Re: B G Racing]
#1527117
11/06/13 01:49 PM
11/06/13 01:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,060 Western New York
sixpackbee
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Western New York
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Bob, Be reminded that this engine will not have spark plug wires in the valve covers. Still want to help?
Last edited by sixpackbee; 11/06/13 01:50 PM.
1959 Bugeye Sprite 1967 Charger Black L code 1967 Coronet R/T Convert Green 440 auto bought from original owner 1968 Charger R/T Bronze 440 4 spd console AM/FM 1969 Super Bee WM21H B5 A40 D21 N96 1969 Barracuda Formula S 340 Convert pilot car 1969 Hemi Road Runner RM23J D32 Omaha orange 4.10 Dana N96 N85 1970 Super Bee WM23N FE5 V1X 3.91 axle package, N96 1970 Road Runner RM21N B3 V1X D13 1971 MG Midget 1971 Road Runner RM23H GW3, A57 1972 Road Runner RM23P FY1, D21
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Re: xr1 block nightmare
[Re: sixpackbee]
#1527118
11/06/13 01:52 PM
11/06/13 01:52 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026 Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
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Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
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Obviously, it is no small task to assemble and finance a highend drag style build, but I wouldn't consider using the most important piece in the equation (the block), that hasn't been proven in that environment. If the foundation of a project that could top $40,000 dollars is compromised for whatever reason, only a fool would roll the dice and until I see a block become available that can support a 1000+hp smallblock at 10,000rpm, forget it...... I understand there are more people building low HP/RPM engines, but a number of features of this block are directed at serious efforts. W2s in all their incarnations, W5s, Indys, Edelbrocks, etc., are generally used in low powered pieces that could easily survive with stock blocks, replacement blocks, or R3s. Any block should be able to survive the typical 5-700hp, in the 7000rpm "bracket" range, unless it's JUNK. What this community needs is a foundation that is up to the task of 800 to 1000+hp at 8000rpm and up, that is ABLE TO BE PURCHASED WITHOUT AN EXTENDED WAIT PERIOD!!!! And not just smallblocks, but also big and Hemi blocks. R3s have been built in that fashion, including the one in my garage, but an improved and updated deal, that is available at the drop of a dime and reasonably affordable would be a welcome addition. It's bad enough that we can't pick up the phone and order a NEW W8, or a block to make a large cubic inch P5 and if it weren't for CHEVY RACERS(!!!)who need them for THEIR heads, new 420 intakes would still be on the endangered list. Every 15 minutes, Ford and GM racers benefit from a new cylinder head and a new block in any number of materials, in multiple deck heights, bore spacings, cam size/location, pan rail configuration and any number of other options. Understandably, this is not economically possible in the MOPAR world, but take a look at what's going on with Pontiac racers. They now have access to a couple KILLER blocks and heads, that in many cases, are superior to whats readily available to MOPAR folks. I don't see legions of Pontiac racers in staging lanes and parking lots around the country, yet they are benefitting from quality pieces for advanced builds. THIS....is an embarrassment!!! How we cannot get a single manufacturer to offer a single highend block, with a variety of options and a "pro-port" (raw) version of a single, modern cylinder head design (except the P5).......is ridiculous. I give alot of credit to people like Koleno and Ritter for trying to fill the void to some extent, but the issues that arise just about every time something is released on the block & head front......has reached LAUGHABLE proportions.
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Re: xr1 block nightmare
[Re: sixpackbee]
#1527119
11/06/13 05:20 PM
11/06/13 05:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
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Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
Bob, Be reminded that this engine will not have spark plug wires in the valve covers. Still want to help?
I would love to help. We have many engines without sparkplug wires in the valve covers.You build the bottom half and maybe I'll do the top half with Indy heads.
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Re: xr1 block nightmare
[Re: jim sciortino]
#1527120
11/06/13 06:31 PM
11/06/13 06:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,395 Pa
Hot 340
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Pa
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Quote:
Obviously, it is no small task to assemble and finance a highend drag style build, but I wouldn't consider using the most important piece in the equation (the block), that hasn't been proven in that environment.
If the foundation of a project that could top $40,000 dollars is compromised for whatever reason, only a fool would roll the dice and until I see a block become available that can support a 1000+hp smallblock at 10,000rpm, forget it......
I understand there are more people building low HP/RPM engines, but a number of features of this block are directed at serious efforts. W2s in all their incarnations, W5s, Indys, Edelbrocks, etc., are generally used in low powered pieces that could easily survive with stock blocks, replacement blocks, or R3s.
Any block should be able to survive the typical 5-700hp, in the 7000rpm "bracket" range, unless it's JUNK. What this community needs is a foundation that is up to the task of 800 to 1000+hp at 8000rpm and up, that is ABLE TO BE PURCHASED WITHOUT AN EXTENDED WAIT PERIOD!!!! And not just smallblocks, but also big and Hemi blocks.
R3s have been built in that fashion, including the one in my garage, but an improved and updated deal, that is available at the drop of a dime and reasonably affordable would be a welcome addition. It's bad enough that we can't pick up the phone and order a NEW W8, or a block to make a large cubic inch P5 and if it weren't for CHEVY RACERS(!!!)who need them for THEIR heads, new 420 intakes would still be on the endangered list.
Every 15 minutes, Ford and GM racers benefit from a new cylinder head and a new block in any number of materials, in multiple deck heights, bore spacings, cam size/location, pan rail configuration and any number of other options.
Understandably, this is not economically possible in the MOPAR world, but take a look at what's going on with Pontiac racers. They now have access to a couple KILLER blocks and heads, that in many cases, are superior to whats readily available to MOPAR folks. I don't see legions of Pontiac racers in staging lanes and parking lots around the country, yet they are benefitting from quality pieces for advanced builds.
THIS....is an embarrassment!!! How we cannot get a single manufacturer to offer a single highend block, with a variety of options and a "pro-port" (raw) version of a single, modern cylinder head design (except the P5).......is ridiculous.
I give alot of credit to people like Koleno and Ritter for trying to fill the void to some extent, but the issues that arise just about every time something is released on the block & head front......has reached LAUGHABLE proportions.
Good post.
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Re: xr1 block nightmare
[Re: RylisPro]
#1527123
11/06/13 09:05 PM
11/06/13 09:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,135 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
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Melbourne , Australia
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Another factor I guess is the fact these blocks were designed primarily for the P7 head, the wedge style blocks are basically a compromise. Jim, I understand where you are coming from, the only way I see it happening is a serious racer who is cashed up and makes it happen for their own program.
Alan Jones
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Re: xr1 block nightmare
[Re: LA360]
#1527124
11/06/13 09:19 PM
11/06/13 09:19 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026 Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Trumbull,CT.
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Quote:
Another factor I guess is the fact these blocks were designed primarily for the P7 head, the wedge style blocks are basically a compromise. Jim, I understand where you are coming from, the only way I see it happening is a serious racer who is cashed up and makes it happen for their own program.
Yep.....
I fear until I hit Powerball for 2-3 hundred mill and enter into joint ventures with CN, Dart, Morgan and a few other juiced in types that choose to remain nameless....we are $hyte outta luck.
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Re: xr1 block nightmare
[Re: LA360]
#1527126
11/06/13 11:33 PM
11/06/13 11:33 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026 Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
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Trumbull,CT.
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Quote:
I am in the same boat Jim, my ambitions are far ahead of my wallet! lol
I shoulda' been a criminal....
I wouldn't be in this predicament.
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Re: xr1 block nightmare
[Re: WHITEDART]
#1527127
11/07/13 09:20 AM
11/07/13 09:20 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
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Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
WOW BOB that looks like a great dill for kent and his block .. like I said before im not trying to kill this thing just trying to warn the people....and they might not get any sport from kent.... there are major problem most.. beyond a normal build... some one like you that is respected in the mopar world would be what it takes to get this ironed out... I don't know how the people that spent there hard earned money... became the bad guy
I had early on discussed the issues with rickraw.He wanted to use the block but in the end had no choise but return it.I would never dismiss those who spent hard earned dollars and had issues.I think the issues could have been handled better buy the supplier. We would like to see a affordable block for the small block racers and would be glad to help develope it into a viable program.Either working with Holgar whom we respect or if Kent wanted to donate a block we would give it our best shot to help.
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