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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: Brian_wo]
#1520201
10/19/13 11:47 PM
10/19/13 11:47 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,853
Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,853
Pattison Texas
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ECS Automotive Concepts
636-207-7767
CCT10R 1968-1974 All vehicles - NOS rivets! $29.00 pr.
Last edited by csk; 10/19/13 11:49 PM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: moparmarks]
#1520203
10/20/13 12:19 AM
10/20/13 12:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
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Quote:
It is not illegal to change out a dash frame. Car is retaining it's original vin tag.
Yep,just do it,life goes on !! 
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: 7812845]
#1520205
10/20/13 09:23 AM
10/20/13 09:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,059
Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,059
Niles , Ohio
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In Ohio its illegal.My kid wrecked the 96 Concord.Shop had to change the dash.The OSHP had to be notified and present when they changed the VIN from one dash to the other.Not saying that they arent changed without the verification .Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: therocks]
#1520206
10/20/13 01:08 PM
10/20/13 01:08 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
In Ohio its illegal.My kid wrecked the 96 Concord.Shop had to change the dash.The OSHP had to be notified and present when they changed the VIN from one dash to the other.Not saying that they arent changed without the verification .Rocky
Your circumstances are a "little" different than the OP's....the OP's post should just read, "I need VIN rivets, where?, who?", end of story...reply, ECS concepts/Dave Walden
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1520208
10/20/13 01:11 PM
10/20/13 01:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
Lookiehere, I agree with Dayclona! 
See,..History, made!
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1520209
10/20/13 01:15 PM
10/20/13 01:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Lookiehere, I agree with Dayclona!
See,..History, made!
me too ... 
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: Brian_wo]
#1520211
10/20/13 01:19 PM
10/20/13 01:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Look in the truck parts for sale section.. Theres some VIN rivets there.. 
whats the deal with these that make them worth $65?
can't they bought elsewhere?
NOTHING , the seller thinks he is King Midas and that those rivets he had left over from a gutter job 20 years ago are gold ... he used to sell them for 30 a pr , then 35 , now 65 ...
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: 7812845]
#1520212
10/20/13 04:24 PM
10/20/13 04:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,722
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,722
Rio Linda, CA
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The "el cheapo" way to get around the rivet prices is to remove the tag by grinding off the rivet butts under the dash, then gently punch out the rivets still attached to the tag.
Use a thin layer of epoxy to attach the tag/rivet heads to the new dash.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1520214
10/20/13 07:17 PM
10/20/13 07:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 773
Crofton, Ky.
rattler
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 773
Crofton, Ky.
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Or you just get the correct rivets from work.
1957 Dodge truck, Snakeskin Green with a little stroker motor. 1964 Plymouth Savoy wagon ( my new project)
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: rattler]
#1520215
10/20/13 11:26 PM
10/20/13 11:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 444
Loma Linda, MO
7812845
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 444
Loma Linda, MO
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I've had the rivets for quite a while, not a problem and I didn't pay $65 for them, must have got them before they became like gold.  btw.. I'm keeping the old dash frame in case there's ever a question. It's pretty obvious that the tornado made it useless.
Last edited by 7812845; 10/20/13 11:30 PM.
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: 7812845]
#1520217
10/21/13 03:29 AM
10/21/13 03:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
I've had the rivets for quite a while, not a problem and I didn't pay $65 for them, must have got them before they became like gold.
btw.. I'm keeping the old dash frame in case there's ever a question. It's pretty obvious that the tornado made it useless.
Without a VIN attached to it how will you prove what it was ?? And seriously ... why bother ???
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: BDW]
#1520220
10/21/13 11:37 AM
10/21/13 11:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Sounds like the only "right" thing to do at this point is to get a salvaged title for the car. 
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: rowin4]
#1520221
10/21/13 03:05 PM
10/21/13 03:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,360
PA
70HemiGTX
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,360
PA
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Quote:
Just make sure you rivet the plate on in the right direction. 
I saw an E body with it's vin tag upsidedown from the factory. Many, many years ago. It was never messed with.
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: superwrench]
#1520222
10/21/13 06:59 PM
10/21/13 06:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,623
Millinocket, Maine
JonC
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,623
Millinocket, Maine
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Quote:
I know there are "purists" on this board, but in a case like yours, I would think that the reason you have mentioned should be enough for any normal person. I had to change out my dash frame on my '68 GTX...reason?...'cause the other one had been hacked up by the radio. I could have probably fixed it because it's hidden, but the replacement frame was so clean that I couldn't resist painting it up and using it. I didn't "document" anything....Whoever ends up buying it after me will just have to believe my story as to why the Rosette rivets have been changed.
OK...now I'm ready for the verbal abuse...!!! LOL
I did something similar, I sent my dash in for new pad and didn't want to take a chance on losing the tag. I used regular rivets to put it back on. To me it's no big deal as the other numbers on the car correspond to the tag.
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: Supercuda]
#1520228
10/21/13 09:51 PM
10/21/13 09:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
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"(3) In all prosecutions under this section, possession by a person of a motor vehicle or of a mechanical device with the manufacturer's serial number or the engine or motor number removed, defaced, destroyed or altered or with a part bearing the number or numbers replaced by one on which the proper number does not appear, shall be prima facie evidence of violation of this section.
"
Reads to me swapping an engine with another engine with different engine SN is technically a violation
"(4) If the identification of a motor vehicle or a mechanical device has been removed, defaced, or altered as provided in this section and the real identity of the motor vehicle or mechanical device cannot be determined, the motor vehicle or mechanical device shall be subject to confiscation by the state and shall be sold at public auction, put to official use by the government agency seizing the vehicle, or rendered scrap. If the items are confiscated from a licensed vehicle dealer, the dealer's license shall be revoked."
The key wording here is, how do you establish legally "real identity" if part is a number bearing part, has been removed?
"(5) A person shall not knowingly possess, buy, deliver, or offer to buy, sell, exchange, or give away any manufacturer's vehicle identification number plate, federal safety certification label, antitheft label, posident die stamps, secretary of state vehicle identification label, rosette rivet, or any facsimile thereof. This subsection does not apply to a motor vehicle manufacturer, a motor vehicle parts supplier under contract with a motor vehicle manufacturer, or a law enforcement officer in the official performance of his or her duties or to a motor vehicle in which a manufacturer's vehicle identification plate and each of the applicable labels listed in this subsection have been installed as prescribed by law. A person who violates this subsection is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 4 years, a fine of not more than $10,000.00, or both. If the person who violates this subsection is a licensed dealer or repair facility, its license shall be revoked."
Self explanatory, don't be caught with a VIN dash pad, rossett rivets, etc
"(6) A person shall not buy, receive, or obtain control of a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part with the intent to sell or otherwise dispose of the motor vehicle or motor vehicle part knowing that an identification number of that motor vehicle or motor vehicle part has been removed, obliterated, tampered with, or altered. This subsection does not apply to a motor vehicle obtained from or at the direction of a law enforcement agency. A person who violates this subsection is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 10 years, a fine of not more than $20,000.00, or both."
Don't let seller explain how he restored car by reattaching vin plate, etc
Confiscation by the enforcing department for their own department use in Mi is the most worrisome detail IMO, ie it provides significant incentive to interpret the rules to their benefit.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: Supercuda]
#1520230
10/21/13 11:37 PM
10/21/13 11:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,494
Western Colorado High Desert
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"the motor vehicle or mechanical device shall be subject to confiscation by the state and shall be sold at public auction" So they take your car and then sell to some other poor sap? 
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: 62maxwgn]
#1520232
10/23/13 12:28 AM
10/23/13 12:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
To all who may have visions of changing a tag in the future for any reason,first just do it,second,don't post it on Moparts or any other forum ! 
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: JohnRR]
#1520233
10/23/13 01:06 AM
10/23/13 01:06 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 228
Myrtle Beach
Boot
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 228
Myrtle Beach
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Just an FYI, I was reading on another forum that now some of the collector car insurance companies are checking VINs and rivets now, as a means to deny a claim. Some are even checking engine #s against body numbers, and without CLEAR documentation as to where the donor came from, they can actually legally deny. They enter into contracts with the legal assumption that a collector or classic or special interest car is numbers matching, as it should be according to law. Be careful with numbers, and be sure to clearly document everything.
To the OP, I would take several pics of the damaged frame with vin attached before transferring to the new frame, and use the correct rivets just to be safe.
47 chopped Plymouth Sedan 340/727
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: Boot]
#1520235
10/23/13 10:44 AM
10/23/13 10:44 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
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Quote:
Just an FYI, I was reading on another forum that now some of the collector car insurance companies are checking VINs and rivets now, as a means to deny a claim. Some are even checking engine #s against body numbers, and without CLEAR documentation as to where the donor came from, they can actually legally deny. They enter into contracts with the legal assumption that a collector or classic or special interest car is numbers matching, as it should be according to law. Be careful with numbers, and be sure to clearly document everything.
To the OP, I would take several pics of the damaged frame with vin attached before transferring to the new frame, and use the correct rivets just to be safe.
It figures. And likely after accepting years of premiums without any concern. Would a fix be to request/require insurance company to accept the vehicle with an inspection (inspect and photograph all the rivets they want) as to what exactly they are covering and be bound to it, before a claim and misunderstandings arise?
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#1520236
10/23/13 10:53 AM
10/23/13 10:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,010
Alberta, Canada
krisiesmopes
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,010
Alberta, Canada
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Quote:
Yep: Buy the rivets, change it, be happy.
10 million E-body owners can't be wrong.
Sheldon
This made me laugh.
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: 7812845]
#1520237
10/23/13 11:47 AM
10/23/13 11:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,937
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
My thoughts exactly,and since I'm the OP that's what I am going to do.
Did you put in an insurance claim for the new dash frame ?
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: 7812845]
#3184904
10/18/23 06:32 PM
10/18/23 06:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,653
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,653
Cut and Shoot, TX
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The price of rosette rivets has crashed. Used to be $60 for a pair. Now $2.29 a pair plus $1.57 postage from China here.You'll need to color them black though, since they are stainless. These are 1/8" diameter, but be careful - the $9.99 ones from Amazon are 1/4" here. However, they say these are "NOS Dash Rosette Rivets Stainless Steel Fit for Ford Amc Chrysle Door Tag" with Chrysler misspelled. Not NOS. Also not black. Also won't fit dash, unless the drawing is incorrect and it's the head that's 1/4" and not the shaft. But really, you can just make your own for free with a file in a few minutes if you don't have the factory originals. Factory original blackened aluminum rivet without the pulled steel shaft above, two home made ones below, also aluminum, blackened with magic marker, and the steel shaft. I'll be gluing the factory original heads and shafts back on my newly painted dash. Made the copies just for fun.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: Rhinodart]
#3184925
10/18/23 08:38 PM
10/18/23 08:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,233
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,233
fredericksburg,va
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The "el cheapo" way to get around the rivet prices is to remove the tag by grinding off the rivet butts under the dash, then gently punch out the rivets still attached to the tag.
Use a thin layer of epoxy to attach the tag/rivet heads to the new dash.
Now you did it, we have been trying to keep that secret for decades... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tsk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> And I thought I was the only one who thought of that.
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3184968
10/19/23 01:49 AM
10/19/23 01:49 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,113
Rochester NY
Jer
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,113
Rochester NY
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The "el cheapo" way to get around the rivet prices is to remove the tag by grinding off the rivet butts under the dash, then gently punch out the rivets still attached to the tag.
Use a thin layer of epoxy to attach the tag/rivet heads to the new dash.
Now you did it, we have been trying to keep that secret for decades.. And I thought I was the only one who thought of that. BE SURE to put a piece of tape across the rivets and tag; if you don't, you'll be looking all over for two very small rivet heads.
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Re: Changing VIN plate to new dash frame
[Re: Jer]
#3185074
10/19/23 02:42 PM
10/19/23 02:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,653
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,653
Cut and Shoot, TX
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BTDT!
On a pea gravel textured patio slab.
If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
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