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Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: BradH] #1518928 10/17/13 02:30 PM 10/17/13 02:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH Taking time off to work on my car
BradH Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	More questions: 1. What did the final volume of the chambers come out to? 2. How large was the dish in the pistons? 3. Can both the Procomp and Edelbrock Victor intake seats support a 2.25" intake valve? That's all for now...

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: RAMM] #1518929 10/17/13 02:39 PM 10/17/13 02:39 PM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,051 The Great White North RAMM OP super stock
RAMM OP super stock Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,051 The Great White North	Here's a full pull with severe lifter instability. J.Rob 7890935-Dynoinstability.JPG (150 downloads) 2009 PHR\EMC Competitor 2010 PHR\EMC Competitor 2011 PHR\EMC Competitor 2012 PHR\EMC Competitor 2013 PHR\EMC Competitor 2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor 2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow 2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock 2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: RAMM] #1518930 10/17/13 02:42 PM 10/17/13 02:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio S Sport440 master
Sport440 master S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio	What was the installed ICL of the 106 LSA cam? Thanks for posting your build.

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: RAMM] #1518931 10/17/13 02:43 PM 10/17/13 02:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,051 The Great White North RAMM OP super stock
RAMM OP super stock Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,051 The Great White North	Here's a full pull with "better" valve control. J.Rob 7890942-bettervalvecontrol.JPG (112 downloads) 2009 PHR\EMC Competitor 2010 PHR\EMC Competitor 2011 PHR\EMC Competitor 2012 PHR\EMC Competitor 2013 PHR\EMC Competitor 2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor 2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow 2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock 2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: Sport440] #1518932 10/17/13 02:45 PM 10/17/13 02:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,051 The Great White North RAMM OP super stock
RAMM OP super stock Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,051 The Great White North	Quote: What was the installed ICL of the 106 LSA cam? Thanks for posting your build. It was essentially best straight up at 105.5 It was tried advanced 2 from there and it was down everywhere. J.Rob 2009 PHR\EMC Competitor 2010 PHR\EMC Competitor 2011 PHR\EMC Competitor 2012 PHR\EMC Competitor 2013 PHR\EMC Competitor 2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor 2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow 2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock 2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: BradH] #1518933 10/17/13 02:49 PM 10/17/13 02:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,051 The Great White North RAMM OP super stock
RAMM OP super stock Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,051 The Great White North	Quote: More questions: 1. What did the final volume of the chambers come out to? 2. How large was the dish in the pistons? 3. Can both the Procomp and Edelbrock Victor intake seats support a 2.25" intake valve? That's all for now... 1. Chambers were finished to 54cc 2. Dish with reliefs cc'd at 24 cc 3. Yes both can handle a 2.25" although you don't have much of a top cut on the seat ring. J.Rob 2009 PHR\EMC Competitor 2010 PHR\EMC Competitor 2011 PHR\EMC Competitor 2012 PHR\EMC Competitor 2013 PHR\EMC Competitor 2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor 2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow 2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock 2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: RAMM] #1518934 10/17/13 02:57 PM 10/17/13 02:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 760 Canada C CTD5.9 super stock
CTD5.9 super stock C Joined: Feb 2013 Posts: 760 Canada	Sorry if this was covered, What rockers did you use for this build, and how much work was required to get them working with the head mods? Also would you expect the same/worse/better results with victors?

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: pittsburghracer] #1518935 10/17/13 03:09 PM 10/17/13 03:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,051 The Great White North RAMM OP super stock
RAMM OP super stock Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,051 The Great White North	Quote: I would LOVE to see a break-down of how much it cost to build an engine like this if a person had to buy all the parts and pay for all the machine work. Believe me guys this is not your average cheap 700 plus HP engine. I never said it would be cheap to reproduce, especially for anyone without a machine shop at their disposal. What I did say is that it was low buck considering the parts utilized. Let's see. 1. Stock 400 block--free 2. Stock steel crank--$100.00 core 3. Scat I-beams stock Chevy dimensions-- $400 4. Icon pistons --$550 5. Mahle-Clevite 1/16" rings--$125 6. Pro-Comp Heads $800 7. Comp roller + Johnson lifters $1100 8. T&D rockers $1100 9. Truck oil pan and internal 1/2" p-u free These are the core components that most would use to determine whether a build was exotic or more mundane. I know which column I would put this one in because I have a MUCH more exotic one here that cost triple this one in parts alone. You are right when time is factored in though. I would have to charge a heck of a lot to duplicate this to justify the time. What I am currently thinking about doing is giving it some compression, a 270 @ .050" solid roller, and a Dominator with matching spacer to see if it can produce 800+ hp. I think it will. J.Rob 2009 PHR\EMC Competitor 2010 PHR\EMC Competitor 2011 PHR\EMC Competitor 2012 PHR\EMC Competitor 2013 PHR\EMC Competitor 2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor 2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow 2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock 2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: CTD5.9] #1518936 10/17/13 03:12 PM 10/17/13 03:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,051 The Great White North RAMM OP super stock
RAMM OP super stock Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,051 The Great White North	Quote: Sorry if this was covered, What rockers did you use for this build, and how much work was required to get them working with the head mods? Also would you expect the same/worse/better results with victors? I used T&D shaft rockers in a 1.6/1.6 ratio. The only work required was milling the shaft stand down .030" with a 7/8" ball endmill. I would expect better results with Victors because I have learned where I can improve from this build. J.Rob 2009 PHR\EMC Competitor 2010 PHR\EMC Competitor 2011 PHR\EMC Competitor 2012 PHR\EMC Competitor 2013 PHR\EMC Competitor 2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor 2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow 2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock 2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: RAMM] #1518937 10/17/13 04:25 PM 10/17/13 04:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,051 The Great White North RAMM OP super stock
RAMM OP super stock Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,051 The Great White North	This chart represents the very best port of all eight. The rest are down 3-6 cfm from this one at all points above .200" The exhaust flowed 250 cfm through the header. J.Rob 7891024-Proflow.png (94 downloads) 2009 PHR\EMC Competitor 2010 PHR\EMC Competitor 2011 PHR\EMC Competitor 2012 PHR\EMC Competitor 2013 PHR\EMC Competitor 2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor 2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow 2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock 2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: RAMM] #1518938 10/17/13 05:48 PM 10/17/13 05:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2013 Posts: 561 USA B B3RE mopar
B3RE mopar B Joined: Jul 2013 Posts: 561 USA	Quote: Quote: Sorry if this was covered, What rockers did you use for this build, and how much work was required to get them working with the head mods? Also would you expect the same/worse/better results with victors? I used T&D shaft rockers in a 1.6/1.6 ratio. The only work required was milling the shaft stand down .030" with a 7/8" ball endmill. This is why you had instability. How many finalists had valvetrain issues with their hydraulic lifters? I'm sure they didn't just put the roller in the center of the valve and call it good. Not trying to be a jerk, I'd like to see you do well, but if Mopar guys dont abandon the misinformation about valvetrain geometry, they will never be able to compete at the same level as the competition.i Kudos ony all the hard work on the cylinder heads, though. I like to see people thinking outside the box. Mike Beachel I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: B3RE] #1518939 10/17/13 06:04 PM 10/17/13 06:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,414 Toronto M mshred master
mshred master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,414 Toronto	J. Rob nice work dude! Can see your extraordinary attention to detail leaving nothing spared What did you think of those pro comp heads in terms of material quality when you ported on them as well as the casting quality i.e. how well bolt holes and such lined up, rocker shaft mounts level and not warped, etc.

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: mshred] #1518940 10/17/13 06:11 PM 10/17/13 06:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,158 PA. pittsburghracer "Little"John
pittsburghracer "Little"John Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,158 PA.	Quote: J. Rob nice work dude! Can see your extraordinary attention to detail leaving nothing spared What did you think of those pro comp heads in terms of material quality when you ported on them as well as the casting quality i.e. how well bolt holes and such lined up, rocker shaft mounts level and not warped, etc. If they are anything like the Chevy Pro comp heads I just did the aluminum is VERY hard. 1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27 Livin and lovin life one day at a time

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: B3RE] #1518941 10/17/13 06:12 PM 10/17/13 06:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH Taking time off to work on my car
BradH Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Quote: ... but if Mopar guys dont abandon the misinformation about valvetrain geometry, they will never be able to compete at the same level as the competition. Please to elaborate, honorable B3RE-san.

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: pittsburghracer] #1518942 10/17/13 06:13 PM 10/17/13 06:13 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,414 Toronto M mshred master
mshred master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,414 Toronto	Quote: Quote: J. Rob nice work dude! Can see your extraordinary attention to detail leaving nothing spared What did you think of those pro comp heads in terms of material quality when you ported on them as well as the casting quality i.e. how well bolt holes and such lined up, rocker shaft mounts level and not warped, etc. If they are anything like the Chevy Pro comp heads I just did the aluminum is VERY hard. Thats a good thing right? I have heard before that soft aluminum that cuts like better is not as good in terms of casting quality...but im not a head porter nor a metal guy, so I have no idea if thats true or not

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: mshred] #1518943 10/17/13 06:22 PM 10/17/13 06:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH Taking time off to work on my car
BradH Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Quote: What did you think of those pro comp heads in terms of material quality when you ported on them as well as the casting quality i.e. how well bolt holes and such lined up, rocker shaft mounts level and not warped, etc. If Jesse's were anything like my "porting dummy" BB head, the area under the exhaust valve seats don't have sufficient material to make a smooth transition into the bowls. I don't know how poor the OOB valve job is because I had Brian at IMM put a "real" valve job on mine before I ever saw it. However, there is still a big "bowl hog" like cut under the intake valve insert that simply didn't need to be cut that deeply. The short turns have a lot bigger "ledge" than the Edelbrock they copied which just adds to the porting time necessary to bring them around. I know you're fishing for validation that buying Procomps is a good deal, but IMO they're perfect examples of how offshore "clone" products cut corners.

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: mshred] #1518944 10/17/13 06:27 PM 10/17/13 06:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,158 PA. pittsburghracer "Little"John
pittsburghracer "Little"John Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,158 PA.	Quote: Quote: Quote: J. Rob nice work dude! Can see your extraordinary attention to detail leaving nothing spared What did you think of those pro comp heads in terms of material quality when you ported on them as well as the casting quality i.e. how well bolt holes and such lined up, rocker shaft mounts level and not warped, etc. If they are anything like the Chevy Pro comp heads I just did the aluminum is VERY hard. Thats a good thing right? I have heard before that soft aluminum that cuts like better is not as good in terms of casting quality...but im not a head porter nor a metal guy, so I have no idea if thats true or not You got me. I Googled it if you want to try to get something. http://www.markusfarkus.com/reference/aluminum.htm 1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27 Livin and lovin life one day at a time

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: BradH] #1518945 10/17/13 06:56 PM 10/17/13 06:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,414 Toronto M mshred master
mshred master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,414 Toronto	Quote: Quote: What did you think of those pro comp heads in terms of material quality when you ported on them as well as the casting quality i.e. how well bolt holes and such lined up, rocker shaft mounts level and not warped, etc. If Jesse's were anything like my "porting dummy" BB head, the area under the exhaust valve seats don't have sufficient material to make a smooth transition into the bowls. I don't know how poor the OOB valve job is because I had Brian at IMM put a "real" valve job on mine before I ever saw it. However, there is still a big "bowl hog" like cut under the intake valve insert that simply didn't need to be cut that deeply. The short turns have a lot bigger "ledge" than the Edelbrock they copied which just adds to the porting time necessary to bring them around. I know you're fishing for validation that buying Procomps is a good deal, but IMO they're perfect examples of how offshore "clone" products cut corners. The small block pro comp castings are supposed to be different then standard eddy's in that the water ports were moved in order to be able to port them and not hit water....otherwise, I think there is no real appeal to them...besides, im just asking, aint no harm in that lol

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: B3RE] #1518946 10/17/13 07:27 PM 10/17/13 07:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,051 The Great White North RAMM OP super stock
RAMM OP super stock Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,051 The Great White North	Quote: Quote: Quote: Sorry if this was covered, What rockers did you use for this build, and how much work was required to get them working with the head mods? Also would you expect the same/worse/better results with victors? I used T&D shaft rockers in a 1.6/1.6 ratio. The only work required was milling the shaft stand down .030" with a 7/8" ball endmill. This is why you had instability. How many finalists had valvetrain issues with their hydraulic lifters? I'm sure they didn't just put the roller in the center of the valve and call it good. Not trying to be a jerk, I'd like to see you do well, but if Mopar guys dont abandon the misinformation about valvetrain geometry, they will never be able to compete at the same level as the competition.i Kudos ony all the hard work on the cylinder heads, though. I like to see people thinking outside the box. How would you address the geometry issues with Mopar's shaft system. I am all ears. Short of milling the rocker stands down and moving the shaft in 2 of the 3 axis, I do not see how it can be done. Please enlighten me so I can understand. J.Rob 2009 PHR\EMC Competitor 2010 PHR\EMC Competitor 2011 PHR\EMC Competitor 2012 PHR\EMC Competitor 2013 PHR\EMC Competitor 2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor 2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow 2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock 2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3

Re: EMC 2013 470 B stroker build [Re: RAMM] #1518947 10/17/13 08:33 PM 10/17/13 08:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 9,225 Charleston S sixpackgut Drag Week Mod Champion
sixpackgut Drag Week Mod Champion S Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 9,225 Charleston	good job RAMM and excellent thread Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs

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