|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: SCDaytona]
#1517959
10/15/13 05:08 PM
10/15/13 05:08 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
Triple Threat
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
|
How much power is he trying to make? Ditch the 4 bolt main Idea. I think with a W2 head it will live a long happy life.
Sonic check the block for starters. You can't build mansion with a foundation of pebbles.
Last edited by Triple Threat; 10/15/13 05:10 PM.
-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: BJS racing]
#1517964
10/15/13 06:57 PM
10/15/13 06:57 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Quote:
you will not get 4 bolt mains on a stock block i don't think.
Actually Tony you can but in most cases it will actually make the block weaker. The weakness in a small block is in the main web. Drilling for the 4 bolt takes away from the little that is there.
no kidding that was my point  I wouldn't do it
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: Crizila]
#1517965
10/15/13 06:58 PM
10/15/13 06:58 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Quote:
I'm trying to help a buddy of mine who wants to put together a 4" stroker with a 340 stock block. Plans are to put in 4 bolt mains and 1/2 fill the block. Probably 0.030 over as well. This will be using W2 heads. Is this block going to hold up or not? Trying to keep this on budget and an R block is not in his budget.
I'm doing it. No dyno #'s on the motor, but based on car weight, speed, ET, I'm guessing around 650HP. 360 stock block, 1/2 filled, 4 blt. Milodon caps. Motor in a blown application.
good luck, but why spend all that money and use a stock block?
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: Dustedu]
#1517967
10/15/13 08:46 PM
10/15/13 08:46 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Sorry guys but I don't see the big deal, we have two engines like this. One with W5's and one with ported eddies that both have been punished with nos
I've been Putin alot of nos to the duster engine for the last four years and it seems to be ok. Maybe we are just lucky 
how fast is it?
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: Dustedu]
#1517968
10/15/13 08:51 PM
10/15/13 08:51 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
|
I ran a lot of power on a 70" 360 block bored 4.100" with no filler and stock caps.
If I were putting aftermarket caps on and filling I would prefer to use the Pro Gram caps with the splayed bolts.
Guess I was retarded for all those years I was winning local races with a stock block and NOS.
If I were going to go the race block direction I would just go ahead and go R3 with W7 or better heads and 48 degree lifters.
As long as I am holding back with a 59 degree deal I would just take the risk with the stock block.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: SCDaytona]
#1517973
10/15/13 10:43 PM
10/15/13 10:43 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
|
I ran one for a while 421" with eddies,then battens and finally indys had a 618 roller and many nos passes. 69 340 block with stock caps, sold it to a guy in Ohio so it might still be running.
Brett Miller W9 cnc'd heads
STR Chassis fabraction
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: SCDaytona]
#1517974
10/15/13 10:49 PM
10/15/13 10:49 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
cheapstreetdustr
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,257
acworth / N. georgia - south e...
|
just sonic the block first..
i have factory 72 360 block bored.040 ,factory crank and polished factory rods..
light pistons and balanced assy. no filler and stock caps...line bored..
running 6.67 at 3410lbs.built this motor in o4
365" Iron J heads,,3480lbs best 1.39 60ft on SS springs.10.54,124 mph ...6.67 1/8th et.average 60fts 1.46 w/ small cam &.063 no2 pill tagged & insured
[image][/image]
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: SCDaytona]
#1517979
10/16/13 03:50 AM
10/16/13 03:50 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 883
Affton MO
qwkmopardan
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 883
Affton MO
|
My Demon has a 1973 360 block with no fill, w/ Program 2-Bolt Center 3 main caps and a 4.100 Crankshaft, 13 to 1 CR, Nicely ported production heads and a fairly mild solid flat tappet cam [Racer Brown STX22]. The car weighs almost 3100lbs and has been 1.260 60ft, 6.09 1/8th at 111mph and 9.68 at 136mph 1/4 mile. Car has a crank trigger and timing set at 28*. This engine has 1800+ passes and counting. Crank has not been out of block nor have heads been un-bolted from the block since they were torqued on in winter of 2006. Rod bearings and valve springs have been changed twice. Rod bearings only changed when replacing the $800 Stefs aluminum oil pans, [two of them], after smashing them up on unexpected huge wheelies. I say build what you have and don't kill it with too much timing. 
Last edited by qwkmopardan; 10/16/13 03:55 AM.
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: 440W8 Duster]
#1517981
10/16/13 09:33 AM
10/16/13 09:33 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 487
Charleston, SC
SCDaytona
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 487
Charleston, SC
|
Quote:
Quote:
Thanks for all the responses. Some say yes and some say no. I know a couple racers at my track have ran the 3.79 crank for years with good luck with stock blocks, but they are not available any more unless you buy the top end cranks. Our plan was to put the pro gram billet caps on, 1/2 fill, 13-1 compression and roller cam around 650 to 700 lift. My only concern was with the 4" arm, the increased torque made on the block could be an issue long term.
Tom Molnar has that crank available.
Do you have a contact for him? Not sure who he is.
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: Crizila]
#1517984
10/16/13 11:34 AM
10/16/13 11:34 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,224
Arlington, Tx.
BJS racing
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,224
Arlington, Tx.
|
Quote:
Quote:
I'm trying to help a buddy of mine who wants to put together a 4" stroker with a 340 stock block. Plans are to put in 4 bolt mains and 1/2 fill the block. Probably 0.030 over as well. This will be using W2 heads. Is this block going to hold up or not? Trying to keep this on budget and an R block is not in his budget.
I'm doing it. No dyno #'s on the motor, but based on car weight, speed, ET, I'm guessing around 650HP. 360 stock block, 1/2 filled, 4 blt. Milodon caps. Motor in a blown application.
And from what different engine builders have told me that is pretty much the cap on hp on a factory block and it actually live for very long. I am just going off of what I have learned and heard.
Back in the swing of things at Painless again! Great to be back!
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: BJS racing]
#1517985
10/16/13 12:26 PM
10/16/13 12:26 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm trying to help a buddy of mine who wants to put together a 4" stroker with a 340 stock block. Plans are to put in 4 bolt mains and 1/2 fill the block. Probably 0.030 over as well. This will be using W2 heads. Is this block going to hold up or not? Trying to keep this on budget and an R block is not in his budget.
I'm doing it. No dyno #'s on the motor, but based on car weight, speed, ET, I'm guessing around 650HP. 360 stock block, 1/2 filled, 4 blt. Milodon caps. Motor in a blown application.
And from what different engine builders have told me that is pretty much the cap on hp on a factory block and it actually live for very long. I am just going off of what I have learned and heard.
same here, and I don't have the money to test it and find out. if you can't build it right the first time you probably don't have the bucks to di it again.
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: qwkmopardan]
#1517991
10/16/13 05:33 PM
10/16/13 05:33 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
|
Quote:
This thread about if you can use a stock block and have success with a 4" crank and w-2 heads.
I have a bunch of high HP engines with stock 340/early 360 blocks, [basicly the same as a 340 casting], in service at this time. I have done them with the 4 bolt caps and my opinion it only adds to the cost of the finished project. Same with roller cams, No more power just a lot more money. In fact a couple times I have removed roller cams from customer engines and installed flat tappet cams and car has gone faster. Roller lifters fail and have ruined many a good bottom end. The only block failures I have experienced were due to other parts failing first.
no roller cams because no horse power gain 
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: BJS racing]
#1517994
10/16/13 06:33 PM
10/16/13 06:33 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
DJVCuda
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,179
Atco NJ
|
Quote:
Quote:
just curious to why your going with the 3.79 vs the 4.00 stroke. seems like more cubes the better. what are the benefits of the shorter stroke?
A shorter stroke engine it is easier and quicker to go up in the RPM's. Typically with a shorter stroke engine you can turn more RPM than with the longer stroke due to the rotating weight and centrifical forces that are increased as your stroke gets longer.
My 4.125 stroke small block was 1749 grams and revs like a dirt bike.
Makes killer torque without the rpm of the shorter stroke.
With eddy heads making 630 horse and averaging over 500 ft-lbs through the pull is not a bad thing while keeping things alive with a peak around 6500
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: BJS racing]
#1517995
10/16/13 06:43 PM
10/16/13 06:43 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
just curious to why your going with the 3.79 vs the 4.00 stroke. seems like more cubes the better. what are the benefits of the shorter stroke?
A shorter stroke engine it is easier and quicker to go up in the RPM's. Typically with a shorter stroke engine you can turn more RPM than with the longer stroke due to the rotating weight and centrifical forces that are increased as your stroke gets longer.
Then why stroke it at all?
Why not shorten up the stroke? I have seen a few cranks under 3 inch stroke for the SB, those motors must have been real fast
BTW A shorter stroke tends to end up with heavier reciprocating parts, ever compare 340 and 360 pistons?
Measure the bore difference and then ask again. Yes the 340 piston is heavier because it is a bigger bore. Go find some 318/340 stock rods and weight them against a 360 stock rod. Then just for kicks weigh them all against a 273 rod. The 360 rod is the heaviest out of them all. 318/340 use the same rods. Why is that? Not trying to start any kind of anyone is wrong kinda deal. Just going with like I said earlier what I know and what I've been told.
I don't know many that put stock rods in a stroker making much steam . I didn't even use them in my 340 build years ago.
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: DJVCuda]
#1517996
10/16/13 06:50 PM
10/16/13 06:50 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,049
ohio
all spooled up
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,049
ohio
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
just curious to why your going with the 3.79 vs the 4.00 stroke. seems like more cubes the better. what are the benefits of the shorter stroke?
A shorter stroke engine it is easier and quicker to go up in the RPM's. Typically with a shorter stroke engine you can turn more RPM than with the longer stroke due to the rotating weight and centrifical forces that are increased as your stroke gets longer.
that engine is sweet  if you have it in a car what does it run
My 4.125 stroke small block was 1749 grams and revs like a dirt bike.
Makes killer torque without the rpm of the shorter stroke.
With eddy heads making 630 horse and averaging over 500 ft-lbs through the pull is not a bad thing while keeping things alive with a peak around 6500
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: BJS racing]
#1517998
10/16/13 09:01 PM
10/16/13 09:01 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,044
Victoria, Australia
Ian
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,044
Victoria, Australia
|
I run stock 360 block std caps studs top and bottom 3/4 fill ,never dynoed it, at 3550 1.37 60 ft 6.0 113 and 9.57@142 over 750 hp would be my guess
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: BJS racing]
#1517999
10/16/13 09:39 PM
10/16/13 09:39 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
|
A 340 piston weighs in at 720 grams, the 360 piston at 571, IIRC. There's NO WAY the 0.040" difference in bore could make a 150 gram difference.
Basically if you calculate that weight increases by something like the square of the diameter change, the piston should have weighed another 10 or 20 grams, or something like a 318 piston, at around 590 grams.
BTW, the 318 Poly, the early LA 318 and the 273 used THE SAME FORGING for the connecting rod. It weighed something like 725 grams. The 496 rods used in the 340, and the 645 rods used in the 340,360 and later on the 318, weighed 758 grams.
Put those overweight rods together with the overweight pistons and you see that 340s had a very portly rotating assembly. It should be easy to take a half a pound out of each piston/rod combo.
R.
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: dusturbd340W5]
#1518002
10/17/13 12:30 AM
10/17/13 12:30 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,705
Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,705
Portage,michigan
|
Quote:
Quote:
This thread about if you can use a stock block and have success with a 4" crank and w-2 heads.
I have a bunch of high HP engines with stock 340/early 360 blocks, [basicly the same as a 340 casting], in service at this time. I have done them with the 4 bolt caps and my opinion it only adds to the cost of the finished project. Same with roller cams, No more power just a lot more money. In fact a couple times I have removed roller cams from customer engines and installed flat tappet cams and car has gone faster. Roller lifters fail and have ruined many a good bottom end. The only block failures I have experienced were due to other parts failing first.
well if removing the solid roller made the car go faster than the rest of the combo was not correct to begin with.
In a correct combo a solid roller WILL be faster. Oh and I have run many rollers including in a daily driven Vette and have never had a lifter failure.
Way to little or way to much spring can contribute to a failure with rollers, but if correct, they live happily for a long time.
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: B3422W5]
#1518003
10/17/13 11:06 AM
10/17/13 11:06 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This thread about if you can use a stock block and have success with a 4" crank and w-2 heads.
I have a bunch of high HP engines with stock 340/early 360 blocks, [basicly the same as a 340 casting], in service at this time. I have done them with the 4 bolt caps and my opinion it only adds to the cost of the finished project. Same with roller cams, No more power just a lot more money. In fact a couple times I have removed roller cams from customer engines and installed flat tappet cams and car has gone faster. Roller lifters fail and have ruined many a good bottom end. The only block failures I have experienced were due to other parts failing first.
well if removing the solid roller made the car go faster than the rest of the combo was not correct to begin with.
In a correct combo a solid roller WILL be faster. Oh and I have run many rollers including in a daily driven Vette and have never had a lifter failure.
Way to little or way to much spring can contribute to a failure with rollers, but if correct, they live happily for a long time.
,but the problem with rollers is they need a lot of spring ( in a racing application ) due to the lobe profiles and the addidional weight over flat tappet stuff. It's the down side of roller cams / lifters. In milder cam applications (.600 lift area and under ), flat tappet cams compete quite well with roller cams. IMO, roller cams are over sold. Did I mention a lot less moving parts to fail with flat tappet cams.  Sorry this is so far away from the OP's original question. 
Fastest 300
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1518009
10/26/13 10:21 AM
10/26/13 10:21 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 23
East Palestine, Ohio 44413
Metallidart
member
|
member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 23
East Palestine, Ohio 44413
|
Quote:
I ran one for a while 421" with eddies,then battens and finally indys had a 618 roller and many nos passes. 69 340 block with stock caps, sold it to a guy in Ohio so it might still be running.
That would be me, lol. Still working on collecting parts, I bought a 7 bedroom house that needed remodeled so that slowed me down alot. Still keeping my fingers crossed, it won't be at the rpms or power level you had it, so it might last awhile. Its getting a pair of ported long-valve Econo W2's and thick head gaskets for a drop in compression to about 10.4, and a solid custom grind cam in the upper 260's/270's@.050. I doubt I will be close to the 600hp mark, and I won't be running any NOS or anything.
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: BJS racing]
#1518010
10/26/13 10:50 AM
10/26/13 10:50 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 168
Moparts
SSDart
member
|
member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 168
Moparts
|
Quote:
Quote:
just curious to why your going with the 3.79 vs the 4.00 stroke. seems like more cubes the better. what are the benefits of the shorter stroke?
A shorter stroke engine it is easier and quicker to go up in the RPM's. Typically with a shorter stroke engine you can turn more RPM than with the longer stroke due to the rotating weight and centrifical forces that are increased as your stroke gets longer.
But what about the better rod ratio with the 4" stroke? Better piston speed....... lighter piston....... Yes a shorter stroke does do as you say above, but with the tall deck of the SBM it is a little different story.......
|
|
|
Re: 4" Stroke Small block
[Re: SSDart]
#1518011
10/26/13 02:13 PM
10/26/13 02:13 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,086
Baton Rouge, La.
StandOnIt
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,086
Baton Rouge, La.
|
I am using a magnum 5.9 block, 4" crank, Iron Ram heads, eagle rods, ross pistons at 12 to 1 comp. Its in a 3300lb Volare running mid to high 10's at 122 mph. Been doing it for 7 years also. I did do a cam change a few years ago. Other than that, never taken a valve cover off it. Its a work horse! We guess its making arount 530 hp with no adders.
76' Volare, 5.9 magnum w/Iron heads. New best 10.68 at 123 mph 1/4 mile.
|
|
|
|
|
. 
