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which epoxy? JB weld or ? #1497074 09/06/13 12:02 PM 09/06/13 12:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert OP Circle Track
RapidRobert OP Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	oil pickup mods. What do you recommend I use? Thank you for your time. live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: RapidRobert] #1497075 09/06/13 03:01 PM 09/06/13 03:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	I'm wondering why you are using epoxy at all. Please explain. R.

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: RapidRobert] #1497076 09/06/13 06:24 PM 09/06/13 06:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN astrobuf mopar
astrobuf mopar Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN	Do not leave epoxy exposed to oil, it will eventually swell and dislodge/debond. Why would you want to use an epoxy with a vibrating oil pump. Astrobuf So, are you really a Rocket Scientist?

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: RapidRobert] #1497077 09/06/13 09:12 PM 09/06/13 09:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA E ek3 top fuel
ek3 top fuel E Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA	Quote: oil pickup mods. What do you recommend I use? Thank you for your time. gas weld it.

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: ek3] #1497078 09/09/13 11:43 AM 09/09/13 11:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert OP Circle Track
RapidRobert OP Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	OK, I will have it gas welded live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: RapidRobert] #1497079 09/09/13 05:06 PM 09/09/13 05:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN astrobuf mopar
astrobuf mopar Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN	be careful, it's quite difficult to gas weld cast iron. You might be better to braze the tube into the body. Less heat and less risk. http://www.toolsandgarages.com/index.php?topic=839.0 Astrobuf So, are you really a Rocket Scientist?

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: astrobuf] #1497080 09/09/13 05:18 PM 09/09/13 05:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 685 pennsylvania poboyengineering mopar
poboyengineering mopar Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 685 pennsylvania	Quote: be careful, it's quite difficult to gas weld cast iron. You might be better to braze the tube into the body. Less heat and less risk. http://www.toolsandgarages.com/index.php?topic=839.0 Astrobuf links like this are why I keep coming back! thanks so much.. It may be ugly, but it sure is slow. Girls comb their hair in rear view mirrors and the boys try to look so hard....

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: poboyengineering] #1497081 09/10/13 01:47 AM 09/10/13 01:47 AM
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA E ek3 top fuel
ek3 top fuel E Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA	I Meant braze..to many old timers around here called it torch welding and would say gas welding is the only real and true way to weld anything. old habits

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: RapidRobert] #1497082 09/10/13 02:35 AM 09/10/13 02:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,501 Gainesville,FL G goldmember master
goldmember master G Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,501 Gainesville,FL	Pickup tubes are easy to mig or tig weld. I wouldn't think of a jb weld patch on on something that critical.

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: dogdays] #1497083 09/10/13 03:36 AM 09/10/13 03:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,501 Gainesville,FL G goldmember master
goldmember master G Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,501 Gainesville,FL	Quote: I'm wondering why you are using epoxy at all. Please explain. R.

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: astrobuf] #1497084 09/10/13 06:44 AM 09/10/13 06:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN B BB65Barracuda super stock
BB65Barracuda super stock B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN	Quote: Do not leave epoxy exposed to oil, it will eventually swell and dislodge/debond. Why would you want to use an epoxy with a vibrating oil pump. Astrobuf Vibrating oil pump? It would seem If you have harmonics that severe his pick up would be the least of his worries. 1957 Power wagon wm300 original 10.000 mile truck, 1964 dodge Polara Convertible numbers matching

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: BB65Barracuda] #1497085 09/10/13 09:15 AM 09/10/13 09:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN astrobuf mopar
astrobuf mopar Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN	Quote: Quote: Do not leave epoxy exposed to oil, it will eventually swell and dislodge/debond. Why would you want to use an epoxy with a vibrating oil pump. Astrobuf Vibrating oil pump? It would seem If you have harmonics that severe his pick up would be the least of his worries. An oil pump is a bit like a tuning fork. The pickup is flexible and has mass on the end. Take a hammer and bang on an oil pump, you'll see the pickup wiggle, especially at its resonant frequency. The engine firing pattern does the hammering. Astrobuf So, are you really a Rocket Scientist?

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: astrobuf] #1497086 09/10/13 10:08 AM 09/10/13 10:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN B BB65Barracuda super stock
BB65Barracuda super stock B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN	Quote: Quote: Quote: Do not leave epoxy exposed to oil, it will eventually swell and dislodge/debond. Why would you want to use an epoxy with a vibrating oil pump. Astrobuf Vibrating oil pump? It would seem If you have harmonics that severe his pick up would be the least of his worries. An oil pump is a bit like a tuning fork. The pickup is flexible and has mass on the end. Take a hammer and bang on an oil pump, you'll see the pickup wiggle, especially at its resonant frequency. The engine firing pattern does the hammering. Astrobuf Hmmm! You sure sound convincing. 1957 Power wagon wm300 original 10.000 mile truck, 1964 dodge Polara Convertible numbers matching

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: BB65Barracuda] #1497087 09/10/13 10:16 AM 09/10/13 10:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio Challenger 1 Too Many Posts
Challenger 1 Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Do not leave epoxy exposed to oil, it will eventually swell and dislodge/debond. Why would you want to use an epoxy with a vibrating oil pump. Astrobuf Vibrating oil pump? It would seem If you have harmonics that severe his pick up would be the least of his worries. An oil pump is a bit like a tuning fork. The pickup is flexible and has mass on the end. Take a hammer and bang on an oil pump, you'll see the pickup wiggle, especially at its resonant frequency. The engine firing pattern does the hammering. Astrobuf Hmmm! You sure sound convincing. I have broke off the entire oil pump from a BB chevy more than once from tire shake. They make a brace to keep it from happening, I fixed it for good by going with a belt driven external pump. When you start making power you learn about these things.

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: Challenger 1] #1497088 09/10/13 10:26 AM 09/10/13 10:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN B BB65Barracuda super stock
BB65Barracuda super stock B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Do not leave epoxy exposed to oil, it will eventually swell and dislodge/debond. Why would you want to use an epoxy with a vibrating oil pump. Astrobuf Vibrating oil pump? It would seem If you have harmonics that severe his pick up would be the least of his worries. An oil pump is a bit like a tuning fork. The pickup is flexible and has mass on the end. Take a hammer and bang on an oil pump, you'll see the pickup wiggle, especially at its resonant frequency. The engine firing pattern does the hammering. Astrobuf Hmmm! You sure sound convincing. I have broke off the entire oil pump from a BB chevy more than once from tire shake. They make a brace to keep it from happening, I fixed it for good by going with a belt driven external pump. When you start making power you learn about these things. I agree with the tire shake issue, That is an effect from outside the engine. Im just not sure about the comparison of Banging on the case of a oil pump with a Hammer and resonant Harmonics from an oil pump operating as intended. 1957 Power wagon wm300 original 10.000 mile truck, 1964 dodge Polara Convertible numbers matching

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: BB65Barracuda] #1497089 09/10/13 11:09 AM 09/10/13 11:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN astrobuf mopar
astrobuf mopar Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN	Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Do not leave epoxy exposed to oil, it will eventually swell and dislodge/debond. Why would you want to use an epoxy with a vibrating oil pump. Astrobuf Vibrating oil pump? It would seem If you have harmonics that severe his pick up would be the least of his worries. An oil pump is a bit like a tuning fork. The pickup is flexible and has mass on the end. Take a hammer and bang on an oil pump, you'll see the pickup wiggle, especially at its resonant frequency. The engine firing pattern does the hammering. Astrobuf Hmmm! You sure sound convincing. I have broke off the entire oil pump from a BB chevy more than once from tire shake. They make a brace to keep it from happening, I fixed it for good by going with a belt driven external pump. When you start making power you learn about these things. I agree with the tire shake issue, That is an effect from outside the engine. Im just not sure about the comparison of Banging on the case of a oil pump with a Hammer and resonant Harmonics from an oil pump operating as intended. Trust me, I'm a Mechanical Engineer with an extensive background in structural mechanics ;p So, are you really a Rocket Scientist?

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: astrobuf] #1497090 09/10/13 12:46 PM 09/10/13 12:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	So am I. To the disbelievers, there is A REASON why Chrysler supported the end of the pickup tube by placing it on the floor of the oil pan. But if you don't want to learn or understand, there's no help for you. R.

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: dogdays] #1497091 09/10/13 01:30 PM 09/10/13 01:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN B BB65Barracuda super stock
BB65Barracuda super stock B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN	Sorry I'm just a lowly Electrical Engineer. Your intellect is obviously far superior to my own. I bow down before you! I'm pretty sure most all of the manufacturers support or have a distance they keep the pickup of the bottom of the pan so it stays submerged in the oil. Im pretty sure it is not recommended to set the pickup directly on the floor of the oil pan. 1957 Power wagon wm300 original 10.000 mile truck, 1964 dodge Polara Convertible numbers matching

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: dogdays] #1497092 09/10/13 01:34 PM 09/10/13 01:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN astrobuf mopar
astrobuf mopar Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN	Quote: So am I. To the disbelievers, there is A REASON why Chrysler supported the end of the pickup tube by placing it on the floor of the oil pan. But if you don't want to learn or understand, there's no help for you. R. It is indeed a much better design (as is usual for Chrysler) than the GM configuration where most of the experience with brazing the pickup was developed. I think this discussion started with the question of gluing the pickup in for reinforcement, a bad idea no matter what the design given the heat and oil exposure. Astrobuf So, are you really a Rocket Scientist?

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: BB65Barracuda] #1497093 09/10/13 02:31 PM 09/10/13 02:31 PM
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 4,704 Florida BDW master
BDW master Joined: May 2005 Posts: 4,704 Florida	Quote: Sorry I'm just a lowly Electrical Engineer. Don't you dare apologize, everyone knows mechanical engineers are the ones who couldn't cut it in the EE dept. Bazinga!

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: BDW] #1497094 09/10/13 02:37 PM 09/10/13 02:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN B BB65Barracuda super stock
BB65Barracuda super stock B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN	1957 Power wagon wm300 original 10.000 mile truck, 1964 dodge Polara Convertible numbers matching

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: BB65Barracuda] #1497095 09/10/13 06:21 PM 09/10/13 06:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert OP Circle Track
RapidRobert OP Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	I have a pic of what I am working with but my home computer died a week ago & I'm on a borrowed office computer & I ain't figured how to upload pics onto it so I can post em but I'll get some help & post em later live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: RapidRobert] #1497096 09/10/13 07:03 PM 09/10/13 07:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN B BB65Barracuda super stock
BB65Barracuda super stock B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN	Robert, Ive raced for several years and have never done anymore than screw the pickup in on any of my BB motors leaving an 1/8th inch space I might add. My 66 dart consistently went into the low 9's. If it makes you feel more secure you can put a tack weld on it. If your not romping at the track 450 times a season don't worry about it. Just the advice of a lowly BSEE! 1957 Power wagon wm300 original 10.000 mile truck, 1964 dodge Polara Convertible numbers matching

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: BB65Barracuda] #1497097 09/10/13 07:19 PM 09/10/13 07:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert OP Circle Track
RapidRobert OP Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	It's a high rpm circle track 360. when you see the pic I am committed to where I am at. I am going to set the depth (probable 1/8") & weld it then reinstall the screen into the circular slit & tamp it down to crimp it in place. Thank you for (most ) of the replies. I'd like to weld 3 or 4 nuts of the right thickness on the bottom of the pickup to set the clearance exactly where I want it plus have everything supported. 7847141-DCP_0417[1].JPG (32 downloads)

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: RapidRobert] #1497098 09/10/13 09:03 PM 09/10/13 09:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN B BB65Barracuda super stock
BB65Barracuda super stock B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 926 MICHIGAN	WoW! You might have mentioned the circle track part. I would think welding would be mandatory on your pictured set up. Did you make a pan? I wounder if you might have an issue with Cavitation because of the extreme 90's? Perhaps Challenger1 has a great idea for your application. Go drysump. I hope it works out for you Last edited by BB65Barracuda; 09/10/13 09:11 PM. 1957 Power wagon wm300 original 10.000 mile truck, 1964 dodge Polara Convertible numbers matching

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: BB65Barracuda] #1497099 09/10/13 09:20 PM 09/10/13 09:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio Challenger 1 Too Many Posts
Challenger 1 Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio	I don't know anything about circle track 360s. Do they use pipe fittings like that? They seem awfully heavy and weak, especially that closed nipple. You can run a external belt driven pump with a wet sump pan, that what I did with a 572 BBC I used to run. It broke pickups off, it broke entire oil pumps off even with the brace installed. Tire shake in a dragster is brutal. I can't imagine a dirt track is any smoother?

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: RapidRobert] #1497100 09/10/13 10:54 PM 09/10/13 10:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi rowin4 master
rowin4 master Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi	Quote: It's a high rpm circle track 360. when you see the pic I am committed to where I am at. I am going to set the depth (probable 1/8") & weld it then reinstall the screen into the circular slit & tamp it down to crimp it in place. Thank you for (most ) of the replies. I'd like to weld 3 or 4 nuts of the right thickness on the bottom of the pickup to set the clearance exactly where I want it plus have everything supported. If you are going to go with the set up you have pictured at least change to iron 90"s instead of galvanized. And if I was to do that that pick up ,I would get some tubing bent up , that iron pipe is just to heavy and will crack at the threads. I've welded up pickups similar to yours using 3 different pick ups to get the bends needed. never broke. Just my opinion. it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: rowin4] #1497101 09/12/13 11:10 PM 09/12/13 11:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA E ek3 top fuel
ek3 top fuel E Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA	the main cause for oil pump fractures is due to solid motor mounts . [ you are using solids yes?] as far as the pick up tube goes, a thin wall tube would be much better and easier to support . I would braze a thin wall pickup to the pump and scrap the heavy wall pipe pictured . install the pump and the correct pickup so the pickup is slightly " above " the pan height , then with a 1/4" shim placed completely across the screen section of the pickup ,place the pan onto the engine and bolt it down . now remove the pan and braze the pickup and your clearance is set exactly where you want it. .............from one circle track racer to another !!

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: ek3] #1497102 09/13/13 12:16 AM 09/13/13 12:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert OP Circle Track
RapidRobert OP Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	Yeah I'm not real comfortable with that thick wall stuff either. If you have a brand/part # for some thin wall material I'm all ears! The pump is tapped for 1/2 NPT so it'd have to work with that size live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: BDW] #1497103 09/13/13 01:03 AM 09/13/13 01:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN astrobuf mopar
astrobuf mopar Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN	OMG - my concerns re vibration just quadrupled. You need to build this using 1/2 inch flex copper brazed to a pickup on one end, and a compression fitting to a male adapter on the other end. If rug up a bracket of some kind to the pump body to lock the compression fitting down and provide support tool. Astrobuf So, are you really a Rocket Scientist?

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: RapidRobert] #1497104 09/14/13 01:50 AM 09/14/13 01:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA E ek3 top fuel
ek3 top fuel E Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 1,899 MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA	Quote: Yeah I'm not real comfortable with that thick wall stuff either. If you have a brand/part # for some thin wall material I'm all ears! The pump is tapped for 1/2 NPT so it'd have to work with that size canton or champ ,steffs is a great custom mfg check with them for tubing.. which/what pan do you have. you should be able to get a matching pickup for it. if the pump is drilled for 1/2 " , you should be able to get one in 1/2" or you will have to adapt it down to fit the matching pickup.

Re: which epoxy? JB weld or ? [Re: ek3] #1497105 09/14/13 10:31 AM 09/14/13 10:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert OP Circle Track
RapidRobert OP Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	The pump is tapped for 1/2 pipe. I do not want to neck it down. I'm using a 392 pan which is a common "center" sump but more toward the front. I do have a std vol pump/matching pickup (for that pan) but I want (need) the hi vol pump tapped for 1/2 along with the other oiling mods. I will see what Steffs has. Thank you! live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

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