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Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: BSB67] #1493064
12/13/13 01:31 AM
12/13/13 01:31 AM
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Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Dumb question maybe, but is there enough meat in the chambers to take them out to that cc number? Do they have to cut out the quench pad to get there?

Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: JohnRR] #1493065
12/13/13 01:42 AM
12/13/13 01:42 AM
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Posts: 6,545
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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I must have missed it as I was going to reply.

At any rate instead of spending $200 on .027 Cometics, Mancini has .022 shim gaskets for $32.95 for the pair. It will put your quench at .034 which is bordering on dangerously close but maybe not so dangerous if you keep the RPM reasonable like 5500-5800. If it gets better or makes it go away, you will know you are on the right track and can then decide if the Cometics are worth the $$.

If it just makes it go from bad to worse you are only out $32.95 for the education.

Kevin

Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: Twostick] #1493066
12/13/13 01:54 AM
12/13/13 01:54 AM
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Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Can those shim gaskets be used with aluminum heads? I have a "fuzzy memory" of reading here that some guys used them with a spritz of copper coat on them?

Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: Kern Dog] #1493067
12/13/13 09:45 AM
12/13/13 09:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,309
Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
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Quote:

Dumb question maybe, but is there enough meat in the chambers to take them out to that cc number? Do they have to cut out the quench pad to get there?




Yes, there is enough meat. They do not cut out the quench portion of the chamber. It does get a little smaller though.

Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: goldmember] #1493068
12/13/13 12:21 PM
12/13/13 12:21 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Alright & if it's good on 89 you might even be able to switch cams if desired. Holler how it turns out. After 5K plus views we're all pulling for ya on this aggravating deal




for me it's like a car wreck ...


I'd consider it a train wreck but wtf do I know.LOL it will be intertaining whatever the outcome.




I was going to say train wreck but I saw a few car wrecks driving from Orlando to Boston last weekend ...

Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: JohnRR] #1493069
12/13/13 08:01 PM
12/13/13 08:01 PM
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Prospect, PA
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Alright & if it's good on 89 you might even be able to switch cams if desired. Holler how it turns out. After 5K plus views we're all pulling for ya on this aggravating deal




for me it's like a car wreck ...


I'd consider it a train wreck but wtf do I know.LOL it will be intertaining whatever the outcome.




I was going to say train wreck but I saw a few car wrecks driving from Orlando to Boston last weekend ...




I thought you intentionally chose to not use train as it might look a little insensitive from a timing standpoint.

Last edited by BSB67; 12/13/13 08:02 PM.
Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: Kern Dog] #1493070
12/13/13 11:32 PM
12/13/13 11:32 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,545
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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Quote:

Can those shim gaskets be used with aluminum heads? I have a "fuzzy memory" of reading here that some guys used them with a spritz of copper coat on them?




A Cometic is just a multi layer metal shim style gasket so I would say yes you can use them but I have heard also that the steel can leave a "mark" if you will on the head. A thin coat of Coppercoat would likely help prevent that.

Kevin

Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: Twostick] #1493071
12/14/13 12:43 AM
12/14/13 12:43 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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I had a guy way back on another site state that he could not get his Cometics' to seal until he sprayed all 3 layers with Permatex "high tack" part # 99MA the red stuff in a spray can . I've used it on paper/fiber and composition gaskets with excellent results as it is extremely tacky, goes on light & seals very well. I've used Permatex copper coat spray on steel head gaskets but I did not like the way it went on (too thin/runny). I'm wondering if aluminum (silver?) spray paint would do better (on steel shim gaskets) which has been recommended but I have yet to try it.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: RapidRobert] #1493072
12/14/13 12:47 AM
12/14/13 12:47 AM
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Posts: 6,545
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Cometics require a pretty precise finish on the decks or they can leak.

Kevin

Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: Twostick] #1493073
12/14/13 12:56 AM
12/14/13 12:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

Cometics require a pretty precise finish on the decks or they can leak. Kevin


I wonder if that was the guys' problem


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: Twostick] #1493074
12/17/13 03:45 AM
12/17/13 03:45 AM
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Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Quote:

Cometics require a pretty precise finish on the decks or they can leak.

Kevin




The last set I ran was in 2006. I had the heads lightly surfaced and cleaned the block with a red Scotch Brite. I had no leaks then. Other than the Cometics, I've only used Fel Pro blue gaskets. They leave no chunky residue after removal. I asked my machinist today. He said the decks need to be clean but not mirror/glass smooth. He felt here should be some degree of "grit" to the surface.

Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: Kern Dog] #1493075
01/01/14 01:45 AM
01/01/14 01:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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I was finally able to spend some time on the car today. I expected to work all day but the boss wanted to leave before noon! Heck yeah, I'm always happy to take an early day.

The thick head gaskets sure take up most of the dowels in the block! I made sure the decks and heads were super clean, then set the gaskets, then heads. I used new ARP bolts and torqued in 3 steps: 25,55 and 70. I even went a 4th time at 70 to make sure.
The pushrods and rocker arms are on. I lashed the valves at .014 INT and .016 EXH. I read here that aluminum heads grow .006 when the engine is up to temp. The Lunati cam card calls for .020 INT, .022 EXH hot lash. Kinda odd that even with me holding the allen set screw still, the lash still grows a bit when I tighten the locknut. I'm spoiled from years of using the stock " set it and forget it" stuff.
There is still plenty left to do. I'm hoping that I'll have it running over the weekend.

Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: Kern Dog] #1493076
01/01/14 02:00 AM
01/01/14 02:00 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

I'm hoping that I'll have it running over the weekend.


I'm (we're) waiting


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Cam break in is done, time to tune. ** Uh-OH !!! [Re: Kern Dog] #1493077
01/01/14 02:25 AM
01/01/14 02:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Considering that this particular thread (One of many I started) begun in late August, this has been a long time coming.
I usually turn stuff around much quicker. I got back to work in early September and the jobsites have all been so far away, I'm pretty tired by the time I get home.
I noticed some discoloring on the edges of 2 cylinders at the RH cylinder deck. It looked like carbon buildup or something. It bordered at the cylinder and was about an inch long. In all this search for the cause of detonation, I wonder if it means anything. One of the old head gaskets did have some rough spots at the fire ring. Nothing burned, just sort of textured.
Once it is back together, I'll recheck the compression numbers.

Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: Kern Dog] #1493078
01/01/14 05:13 PM
01/01/14 05:13 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

I was finally able to spend some time on the car today. I expected to work all day but the boss wanted to leave before noon! Heck yeah, I'm always happy to take an early day.

The thick head gaskets sure take up most of the dowels in the block! I made sure the decks and heads were super clean, then set the gaskets, then heads. I used new ARP bolts and torqued in 3 steps: 25,55 and 70. I even went a 4th time at 70 to make sure.
The pushrods and rocker arms are on. I lashed the valves at .014 INT and .016 EXH. I read here that aluminum heads grow .006 when the engine is up to temp. The Lunati cam card calls for .020 INT, .022 EXH hot lash. Kinda odd that even with me holding the allen set screw still, the lash still grows a bit when I tighten the locknut. I'm spoiled from years of using the stock " set it and forget it" stuff.
There is still plenty left to do. I'm hoping that I'll have it running over the weekend.




how many threads of the adjuster are BELOW the rocker arm , I'm ASSuMEing that you used the same pushrods ...

... good to see this train wreck barreling along ...

Last edited by JohnRR; 01/01/14 06:50 PM.
Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: JohnRR] #1493079
01/01/14 05:32 PM
01/01/14 05:32 PM
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Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

... good to see this train wreck barreling ...


Be nice double R


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: RapidRobert] #1493080
01/01/14 06:50 PM
01/01/14 06:50 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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I am being nice ...

Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: JohnRR] #1493081
01/01/14 11:02 PM
01/01/14 11:02 PM
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Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Quote:



how many threads of the adjuster are BELOW the rocker arm , I'm ASSuMEing that you used the same pushrods ...





I haven't checked that. The adjusters were set to the old setup when I installed them at first. I had to turn them CW about 1 1/2 turns to tighten up the lash. It looks like about 3-4 threads show above the lock nuts.

Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: Kern Dog] #1493082
01/01/14 11:05 PM
01/01/14 11:05 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

Quote:



how many threads of the adjuster are BELOW the rocker arm , I'm ASSuMEing that you used the same pushrods ...





I haven't checked that. The adjusters were set to the old setup when I installed them at first. I had to turn them CW about 1 1/2 turns to tighten up the lash. It looks like about 3-4 threads show above the lock nuts.




What is showing above the nuts is not what I asked about sir ... BELOW THE ROCKER ARM

How about taking a picture ?

Re: Cam break in is done!....Now more questions! [Re: JohnRR] #1493083
01/01/14 11:38 PM
01/01/14 11:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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I was just telling what I knew at the time.
Here are a few pictures.

7981214-DSCN1933.JPG (70 downloads)
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