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Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: stinger] #1471760
07/22/13 05:11 PM
07/22/13 05:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,830
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH Offline
master
6bblFLASH  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,830
N.E. Ohio
I would be very interested in a solution too.
I have the same problem on my 440,but have tried almost everything listed and more,3-cams/gears/carbs/ignition-3-of them/exhaust/timing /springs/fuel-pumps/shim-rockers......whats left?
Heads and a lighter car

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70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
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Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: stinger] #1471761
07/22/13 05:50 PM
07/22/13 05:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,487
God's Country Maryland
GODSCOUNTRY340 Offline
top fuel
GODSCOUNTRY340  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,487
God's Country Maryland
Make sure the gas tank vent isn't plugged. Try it with the gas cap either loose or off to verify.


I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: GODSCOUNTRY340] #1471762
07/22/13 08:34 PM
07/22/13 08:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
stinger Offline OP
mopar
stinger  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
remembering back on all the stuff I tried I think it's fuel but will wire the choke open just in case. I bought the heads years ago and forget all the specifics. it has ferra valves,bronze guides,titanium retainers and hemi race springs what ever that means. they are single with dampners.
anywho,when changing jets I could move the falloff point a few rpm's up or down with a performer intake. swaped in an rpm intake and the fall off occoured closer to 4500 rpm so I rejetted and got it back up to about 5200.

I have a question about the fuel pump rod??? when I changed pumps I measured the rod and it's not quite up to 3 1/4",measured with a caliper. the rod is in good shape but came from 440 source. thinking it could be the rod. are these rods exactly 3 1/4"?

I had a 340 with crane cam close to this one with stock valvetrain and a six pack and that thing would spin up to 7 grand. but remembering I did have rhoads lifters in it.

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: stinger] #1471763
07/22/13 08:41 PM
07/22/13 08:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
A
ahy Offline
master
ahy  Offline
master
A

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
Agree with RR an auxiliary gauge on the carb inlet line is an excellent diagnostic. A lot of the things mentioned (fuel pump, pushrod, vapor lock, gas cap) would show up as low fuel pressure. If the fuel pressure holds pretty steady then drops off as you approach 5000 RPM then you have narrowed down the problem. If not, keep looking. Your local AP store should have a suitable gauge. If you were nearby I'd loan you mine.

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: stinger] #1471764
07/22/13 09:09 PM
07/22/13 09:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,516
Santa Cruz, California
L
Lefty Offline
master
Lefty  Offline
master
L

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,516
Santa Cruz, California
Lot's of good suggestions. I'd add making sure the throttle plates are fully open with the pedal at WOT. If that's OK, I'd substitute in a different coil.

You didn't say "how" it falls flat. If it's draining the fuel line like in a plugged tank intake they usually just die and then when you back off they start back up in my experience. If the acceleration goes flat with a burble it's the rev limiter kicking in if it cuts individual cylinders. If the limiter is the type that kills all spark it want's to put you through the front window.

Just some more ideas, hope you find it soon...

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: 6bblFLASH] #1471765
07/22/13 10:08 PM
07/22/13 10:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

I would be very interested in a solution too.
I have the same problem on my 440,but have tried almost everything listed and more,3-cams/gears/carbs/ignition-3-of them/exhaust/timing /springs/fuel-pumps/shim-rockers......whats left?
Heads and a lighter car




your blower is too small......

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: Lefty] #1471766
07/22/13 10:08 PM
07/22/13 10:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
stinger Offline OP
mopar
stinger  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
Quote:

Lot's of good suggestions. I'd add making sure the throttle plates are fully open with the pedal at WOT. If that's OK, I'd substitute in a different coil.

You didn't say "how" it falls flat. If it's draining the fuel line like in a plugged tank intake they usually just die and then when you back off they start back up in my experience. If the acceleration goes flat with a burble it's the rev limiter kicking in if it cuts individual cylinders. If the limiter is the type that kills all spark it want's to put you through the front window.

Just some more ideas, hope you find it soon...




it sounds like it just starts breaking up with a fast loss of power,let off and its fine. runs great up to 5ooo fine after.idles perfect,starts easy all the time.great running engine other then the 5 grand limit. there is no rev limiter.
the coil is old though,sound like it could be a coil? it's a blaster 2. I thought coils just took a dump and that's that.

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: stinger] #1471767
07/22/13 10:11 PM
07/22/13 10:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
My blaster II is like 10-15 years old. It's been on 4 engines. does it Peter out in the burn out box at 5k? or is it down track?

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1471768
07/22/13 10:23 PM
07/22/13 10:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
stinger Offline OP
mopar
stinger  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
Quote:

My blaster II is like 10-15 years old. It's been on 4 engines. does it Peter out in the burn out box at 5k? or is it down track?




street car so down track

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: stinger] #1471769
07/22/13 10:29 PM
07/22/13 10:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
master
Dodgem  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
If it sounds like it's breaking up fuel supply or valve springs!

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: Dodgem] #1471770
07/22/13 11:52 PM
07/22/13 11:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
stinger Offline OP
mopar
stinger  Offline OP
mopar

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
Quote:

If it sounds like it's breaking up fuel supply or valve springs!





my thoughts as well. I'll do the fuel test in a few days and post my findings.
the spring kit for this cam is cheap and single spring so should be an easy swap if need be.
Thanks All!

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: stinger] #1471771
07/23/13 12:22 AM
07/23/13 12:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
D
dennismopar73 Offline
top fuel
dennismopar73  Offline
top fuel
D

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
It will be fuel delivery! either the pump not up to task, or the way the fuel is ran to the carb (s)
Unless the springs have broken the stocker will go past 5500!

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: dennismopar73] #1471772
07/23/13 06:12 AM
07/23/13 06:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
I Live Here
gdonovan  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
Quote:

It will be fuel delivery! either the pump not up to task, or the way the fuel is ran to the carb (s)
Unless the springs have broken the stocker will go past 5500!




I went through this over well over a decade ago, two different sets of MP springs! All crap. Checked the pressures before and after a weeks run time and was horrified how much they dropped off.

Ended up buying a set of battleship steel springs and taking out the inner spring to get the pressure I wanted. Even after years of use still within spec and the motor has been buzzed hard to 7200 RPM.

Before that it would get to around 5000-5500 and pop and frat like it had a bad misfire from a coil of ignition box.

Check the springs, check the springs, check the springs. Really not that hard to pull two and have them checked.

Ignition wise I ended up using a gold NASCAR box, Blaster II coil, and Moroso spiral core 8mm wires all of which made no difference till I changed springs.

Hell I even indexed the distributor rotor with a clear ignition cap and timing light, still got the cap too.

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: gdonovan] #1471773
07/23/13 07:07 AM
07/23/13 07:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,041
michigan woods
imfixinmopars426 Offline
master
imfixinmopars426  Offline
master

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,041
michigan woods
are the wires going to the dist correct polarity? I had one without factory plug ins and wired it backward...ran decent to 4-4500 then broke up bad.switched wires,and ran great...just a thought... also on fuel pressure,i would rig a gauge near the carb to see drop in psi...good luck,mike

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: imfixinmopars426] #1471774
07/23/13 07:34 AM
07/23/13 07:34 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 277
Palmyra, NY
6
63stabamatic Offline
enthusiast
63stabamatic  Offline
enthusiast
6

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 277
Palmyra, NY
I also had a 383 that did this, it was the fuel filter.

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: 63stabamatic] #1471775
07/23/13 10:40 AM
07/23/13 10:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,931
P
Paul_Fancsali Offline
master
Paul_Fancsali  Offline
master
P

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,931
If all the above do not help disconnect the MSD and wire in a point distributor.I had MSD boxes that cost me .3-.4 seconds and finally pulled the crap out and wired it up to points and went faster then I ever had. I realize all out race car like all the toy's limiter etc I just want the time and a reliable car the boxes were fixed twice that's enough for me

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: gdonovan] #1471776
07/23/13 11:13 AM
07/23/13 11:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
S
Sixpak Offline
master
Sixpak  Offline
master
S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,840
The Swamp
Quote:

Quote:

It will be fuel delivery! either the pump not up to task, or the way the fuel is ran to the carb (s)
Unless the springs have broken the stocker will go past 5500!




I went through this over well over a decade ago, two different sets of MP springs! All crap. Checked the pressures before and after a weeks run time and was horrified how much they dropped off.

Ended up buying a set of battleship steel springs and taking out the inner spring to get the pressure I wanted. Even after years of use still within spec and the motor has been buzzed hard to 7200 RPM.

Before that it would get to around 5000-5500 and pop and frat like it had a bad misfire from a coil of ignition box.

Check the springs, check the springs, check the springs. Really not that hard to pull two and have them checked.

Ignition wise I ended up using a gold NASCAR box, Blaster II coil, and Moroso spiral core 8mm wires all of which made no difference till I changed springs.

Hell I even indexed the distributor rotor with a clear ignition cap and timing light, still got the cap too.



MP springs are junk - you learned the hard way.

Not sure what rockers are on the motor but I had a small block that would break up at 4500. Was running stock non adjustable rockers. Heads and blocked were milled. Hydraulic lifters would pump up at 4500 and cause valve float. Adjustable rockers cured it. I'd start with the valve train - adjustable rockers/valve lash, valve springs, and look at fuel delivery too.

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: Sixpak] #1471777
07/23/13 01:11 PM
07/23/13 01:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
D
dogdays Offline
I Live Here
dogdays  Offline
I Live Here
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
My :
Valve springs.

R.

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: dogdays] #1471778
07/23/13 03:57 PM
07/23/13 03:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584
MD
p d'ro Offline
pro stock
p d'ro  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,584
MD
How far is it supposed to pull?

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: p d'ro] #1471779
07/23/13 04:02 PM
07/23/13 04:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 637
Maryland USA
B
beatgoeson Offline
mopar
beatgoeson  Offline
mopar
B

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 637
Maryland USA
Use a factory tach, Mine idles at 2500 and rev's to 9 grand in a second !! LOL

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