Topic Options
#14651 - 03/06/05 11:24 AM poly lower control arm bushings
Runner Offline
master

Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 3069
Loc: Idaho
im going to put poly lower control arm bushings in my 68 satellite. they are energy suspension pieces and the have no inner or outer metal shells. the instructions say to press the the bushing apart and save the original metal shells.
when i reinstall them will they be tight in the the cotrol arm so they wont slide in and out?. the reason i ask is i just used poly bushings in the uppers of my daughters car and the can move around by just pushing with my fingers but they are forced to stay in place once installed. if they will move around, will the torsion bar keep the control arm in place? thanks mike
_________________________

71 roadrunner 470ci
68 satellite 13.80 102mph 383/4 speed daily driver
72 satellite sebring plus 383/727 panther pink
69 superbee clone 440/727 daughters car
72 dodge dart swinger 318/904

Top
#14652 - 03/06/05 11:30 AM Re: poly lower control arm bushings [Re: Runner]
Satilite73 Online   crying
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 12500
Loc: Between Houston & Galveston TX


The LCA bushing will be just as 'loose' as the top ones. Will the T-bar keep the arm in place? Maybe, maybe not. On my '73, they did not. Lots of clunking and darting about when the suspension unloaded.

I wish we could have this subject stickied or put in the archives.
_________________________
John




Top
#14653 - 03/06/05 11:33 AM Re: poly lower control arm bushings [Re: Runner]
Roughrdr Offline
master

Registered: 01/28/03
Posts: 3773
Loc: Candler, NC
I thought all the makers of the kits stopped making the poly lCA bushings and went back to rubber? I can't help here as the last couple kits I have ordered (PST) didn't have them, but they are pressed in, technically they shouldn't move at all.

Wild guess is that, yes the torsion bars should keep them from moving.
_________________________
Chains of habit - too light to be felt until they are too heavy to be broken

Top
#14654 - 03/06/05 11:43 AM Re: poly lower control arm bushings [Re: Roughrdr]
Runner Offline
master

Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 3069
Loc: Idaho
the thing i found odd was the upper bushings are also polys but have the shells in/on them just like a rubber. i guess the strut rod should help hold it in place also, but wouldnt it be hard to maitain a correct alignment it it can move around. it seems that when a torssion bar is loaded it it damn hard to get it to move. hmmm
_________________________

71 roadrunner 470ci
68 satellite 13.80 102mph 383/4 speed daily driver
72 satellite sebring plus 383/727 panther pink
69 superbee clone 440/727 daughters car
72 dodge dart swinger 318/904

Top
#14655 - 03/06/05 12:05 PM Re: poly lower control arm bushings [Re: Runner]
curry58 Offline
member

Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 44
Loc: st louis
I just Talked to PST in New Jersy about this, they said all their a-body kits will now have oem rubber LCA bushings,
From some of the problems I have heard about , I would be leary of using poly in the LCA.

Top
#14656 - 03/06/05 12:20 PM Re: poly lower control arm bushings [Re: Runner]
Satilite73 Online   crying
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 12500
Loc: Between Houston & Galveston TX
"it seems that when a torssion bar is loaded it it damn hard to get it to move."

Hence why I made it a point to say unloaded in my response.

With the poly LCA bushings in my '73, the car handled as if I was running old bias-ply tires on the front. Switching NOTHING except the LCA bushings back to rubber cured all the issues I was having.

_________________________
John




Top
#14657 - 03/06/05 01:05 PM Re: poly lower control arm bushings [Re: Satilite73]
AdamR Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 7975
Loc: Bethel Ct
I have problem with my LCA polly bushings also. I have a brand new set of runner for them going in soon. Loose as a goose.

Top
#14658 - 03/06/05 01:10 PM Re: poly lower control arm bushings [Re: AdamR]
Runner Offline
master

Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 3069
Loc: Idaho
well i just ordered a set of moog rubbers from rock auto. thanks guys.
_________________________

71 roadrunner 470ci
68 satellite 13.80 102mph 383/4 speed daily driver
72 satellite sebring plus 383/727 panther pink
69 superbee clone 440/727 daughters car
72 dodge dart swinger 318/904

Top
#14659 - 03/06/05 01:54 PM Re: poly lower control arm bushings [Re: Satilite73]
myduster360 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 324
Loc: central IL
there's no good reason a poly lca bushing will act any worse than a rubber one. i believe PST went to rubber as a PR move to appease guys who think their LCA going to fall off because the bushing squirms around a bit when reinstalling the torsion bars.

The fact of the matter is the bushing, rubber or even JELLO for that matter, does nothing to inhibit fore and aft movement of the LCA. Thats all controlled by the strut rod. Another point, the torsion bar is NEVER unloaded while the adjusting bolt is tight. Thats why it must be loosened to remove the bar. If you think im nuts, try to get the torsion bar out with the bolt tight and let us know how it goes.

If by chance, your adjusting bolt breaks off and your strut rod snaps AND a chain snags the tire as you drive by, NO bushing will help hold the LCA on. Aside from that the LCA isn't going anywhere

I can't readily explain the few "cures" for the handling woes simply by reinstalling a rubber bushing, nor do I think i should possibly bruise the increasingly fragile egos on this board by suggesting its intaller error, but blaming the bushing material just doesn't make sense.

dave
_________________________
1972 Swinger 3.6L Pentastar
Diablo CMR tuner

Top
#14660 - 03/06/05 08:46 PM Re: poly lower control arm bushings [Re: myduster360]
Satilite73 Online   crying
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 12500
Loc: Between Houston & Galveston TX
"there's no good reason a poly lca bushing will act any worse than a rubber one"

By thier very design, poly bushings are totally different from the stock rubber in that the rubber bushings play a part in holding the LCA in place. How can a bushing that can be pressed in place by finger pressure hold something in place? Stock rubber bushings require a HYDRAULIC PRESS to install. Hmmmmmmm.

As I've mentioned countless times before, I think the fore, aft movement I was getting was exaggerated by the very design of the '73-up B-body suspension, the T-bar crossmember isn't solid, it isolated by rubber which allows the crossmember to have some movement. A little movement here, a little movement there, next thing you know you've got funky handling. The strut rod just controls the outer part of the LCA.

I don't have a fragile ego, I just find it incredible that someone I don't even know and has never driven my car, can tell me what I experienced first hand didn't actually happen.

The intent of my posts are nothing more than to point out that someone MAY have a problem with poly LCA bushings. If you can make them work, great! Enjoy!

My
_________________________
John




Top
#14661 - 03/06/05 10:48 PM Re: poly lower control arm bushings [Re: Runner]
bigD Offline
pro stock

Registered: 11/15/04
Posts: 1593
Loc: American canyon ,ca
Ok heres my worth,when I rebuilt my 68 charger R/Ts suspension,I used PST lca poly graphite bushings.They had a "bulge or bumper" forward edge which,once in place helped control the forward movement of the arm. The ones they supplied me w/(at the time) used the inner and outer shells from the OE bushings.I dimantled 2 new rubber lca bushing and used the shells for the polys.Once the polys were in the outers, I pressed the inner sleeve into the bushing which locked it in place.Ive never had any problems w/the polys in ten years,But they are a love /hate kinda thing, guys either like them or they don't,D
_________________________
2008 Charger R/T R&T,1999 Dakota R/T,1998 Durango SLT 4x4,1969 Dart GT vert-under construction,1968 Charger R/T.

Top
#14662 - 03/07/05 06:57 AM Re: poly lower control arm bushings [Re: Satilite73]
Anonymous
Unregistered


hee hee... John, you forgot to mention the tell all test- Jack up a car with poly lower bushings and a car with rubber lower bushings. Using a pry bar , pry between the control arm and the k-frame right near the bushing/pivot. Compare how much the poly will allow the arm to move back vs. how the one with the rubber bushing won't allow it to move much at all.

It takes about 2-4 TONS of force in a press to install the rubber bushings into the arm , and the pivot into the bushing. The poly bushings install by hand.

Top
#14663 - 03/07/05 07:49 AM Re: poly lower control arm bushings [Re: Satilite73]
myduster360 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 324
Loc: central IL
The only part of a rubber LCA bushing "holding" the arm in place is the rubber. This is my whole point, THE BUSHING DOES NOT CONTROL FRONT TO REAR MOVEMENT. So a differently installed bushing will make little difference, only the material strength, in which poly is much stronger/stiffer than rubber.

lets go to the other extreme

What if you "slid" in a solid steel bushing? Assume the steel bushing would have enough clearance to be installed by hand. According to your reasoning the steel bushing would be WORSE than the rubber one because the BUSHING would not restrain the arm fore/aft. With ANY tension on the bars and the strut rod in place the LCA WILL NOT MOVE! You see, your reasoning does not make sense.

A GOOD LCA bushing should prevent any deviation in lca's sweep radius under changing loads. The least amount of bushing deformation under load the better. PERIOD! The hot ticket in bushing material now is hard plastic called Delrin.

As you stated, your car has issues, the least of which is what the LCA bushing is made out of. Changing the LCA bushing and NOT the sloppy, rubber k-frame isolators, which by the way, the LCA is mounted to, doesn't make good sense. How could you even tell what any in difference the bushings if half the suspension is moving all over?

Solid mount your K-frame and poly LCA bushings will be a deffinate improvment over rubber.

p.s. i must have been somewhere else the "countless" times you'd talked about your car's problems. My bad

Dave
_________________________
1972 Swinger 3.6L Pentastar
Diablo CMR tuner

Top
#14664 - 03/07/05 08:06 AM Re: poly lower control arm bushings [Re: Runner]
prorunner1 Offline
super street

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 580
Loc: columbus,ohio
has any one tried the poly lca bushing that has the shell already preinstalled?I dont know who makes these but i have seen these on a site somewhere.
_________________________

Top
#14665 - 03/07/05 08:16 AM Re: poly lower control arm bushings [Re: myduster360]
Clair Offline
Pot Stirrer #4

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 8215
Loc: Cornfield. IN
Glade someone newer is trying to Help 73 again


I am still waiting 4 the car to fall apart/crash/ squeak/ jump lanes, leave me


Attachments
1549904-front b closeup.jpg (68 downloads)


Top
#14666 - 03/07/05 08:34 AM Re: poly lower control arm bushings
myduster360 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 324
Loc: central IL
GregZ it take 2-4 tons to press in the outer steel sleeve, nothing more. How much does it take to press out the rubber? Considerably less.

Its the strength of the BOND between the rubber and its shell/sleeve, which is the ultimate AXIAL strength of the rubber bushing. Which, AGAIN, for rubber that amount of force isn't much.

I guess your 'tell all' test might make sense if your Bo and Luke Duke and during a jump Rosco's reaches up under the General Lee and prys on the bushing. While you drive, how often are your front wheels off the ground? What situation is prying on the bushing with the wheels up recreating? How will the bushing ever move without being pried on? I suspect the whole arm isn't moving just half.

I will concur that its possible to squeeze the two halfs of the arm together. With the amount of force on the arm while driving, the strength of a bit of bonded rubber won't do squat. For this very reason, AR engineering make plates to weld the two halfs solidly together as one piece. Do you think Andy would develope, manufacture and market this peice if a pressed in rubbber bushing accomplishes the same thing?

Dave
_________________________
1972 Swinger 3.6L Pentastar
Diablo CMR tuner

Top
#14667 - 03/07/05 09:30 AM Re: poly lower control arm bushings [Re: myduster360]
Anonymous
Unregistered


The bushing has absolutly nothing to do with holding the halves of the lower arm together .

Top
#14668 - 03/07/05 11:09 AM Re: poly lower control arm bushings [Re: myduster360]
Satilite73 Online   crying
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 12500
Loc: Between Houston & Galveston TX
Did anyone fully read my post and why I *think* I had problems with the poly bushing?

Oh, and mounting my K solid was one of the first things I did when I first bought the car. Sorry I didn't mention that, my bad. The poly bushings didn't come until almost 2yrs later.

In the intereset of time last night, I didn't mention what GregZ eluded to, I had the wagon up on a lift with the suspension at full droop, and I was able to make the LCA move fore and aft with a pry bar and not a whole lot of pressure. It didn't move a lot, but isn't ANY movement bad?

Even at the risk of someone trying to get into a pissing match over it, I'll continue to post the experience I had with poly LCA bushings. Take my experience for what its worth.



_________________________
John




Top
#14669 - 03/07/05 11:55 AM Re: poly lower control arm bushings
myduster360 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 324
Loc: central IL
Greg
yes your right, but to move the OTHER part of the LCA you'd also have to move the torsion bar along with, which has a significant amount of friction at the ends when under load.(its hard enough getting them out when there's no load on them) I don't see happening very "easily". The only part i see that can move around with any significant amount is the LCA "halfs" and i thought for sure thats what you meant.

Satelite73, fairs fair, i don't know the whole deal with the wagon, and didn't intend to come down hard on you. With the limited information you gave i jumped to conclusions.

i believe poly LCA have merit and should be used when ever possible.

Dave
_________________________
1972 Swinger 3.6L Pentastar
Diablo CMR tuner

Top

Advertisement
Sponsored Link
Forum Stats
25,249 Registered Members
32 Forums
188,878 Topics
2,202,575 Posts

Most users ever online: 882 @ 03/05/17 10:15 PM
Moparts Newest Topics
How to test the sure-grip unit in a DANA 60 for function?
by Dixie
04/22/18 12:20 AM
727 rebuild questions, diaphram spring and wave springs
by crash520
04/21/18 11:37 PM
Anyone know electric clothes dryers on the air?
by shakerjoe
04/21/18 10:27 PM
2012 5.7 cam and lifters bad
by AeroMonte
04/21/18 10:06 PM