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Dead rich, nothing helps. Fixed #1464122
07/07/13 06:15 PM
07/07/13 06:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
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FL
74-440Charger Offline OP
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Trouble is with a Holley 4150 HP 750 cfm w/vac 2nds on a mild 440. Motor has been sitting for about a year, I replaced the plugs and wires, power valve, needle and seat assemblies, checked float levels and verified spark. Plugs are black as coal and doesn't want to idle. Ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Everyone who said power valve raise your hand .

I pulled it apart again to swap in another power valve, noticed a piece of gasket left from the old PV and it wasn't as tight as it could be. I stripped it al down and soaked in a new can of chem-dip and put it all together cleaner and more carefully this time.

Fired right up, idle fell right in place and tweaked the timing right in. You folks are the best

Last edited by 74-440Charger; 07/08/13 10:42 PM.
Re: Dead rich, nothing helps [Re: 74-440Charger] #1464123
07/07/13 06:17 PM
07/07/13 06:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406 Offline
I Live Here
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Ignition timing/initial advance

Re: Dead rich, nothing helps [Re: RobX4406] #1464124
07/07/13 06:22 PM
07/07/13 06:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 273
FL
74-440Charger Offline OP
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More or less?

Re: Dead rich, nothing helps [Re: 74-440Charger] #1464125
07/07/13 06:25 PM
07/07/13 06:25 PM
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bethlehem pa
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mikemee1331 Offline
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bethlehem pa
vacuum leak?

Re: Dead rich, nothing helps [Re: mikemee1331] #1464126
07/07/13 06:27 PM
07/07/13 06:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406 Offline
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What's it got now?

Re: Dead rich, nothing helps [Re: RobX4406] #1464127
07/07/13 06:33 PM
07/07/13 06:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 273
FL
74-440Charger Offline OP
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Well I'm not sure if I can believe my light, it says about 30 degrees, won't run with much less. Its a 6-AL2 ignition and the instructions say not to use a dial back light...

Re: Dead rich, nothing helps [Re: 74-440Charger] #1464128
07/07/13 07:34 PM
07/07/13 07:34 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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It ran OK a year ago when it was parked with no changes since then. I'm assuming the fuel psi ain't too high & the PV ain't blown. What's your idle speed? It's showing 30 initial? On ported or manifold vacuum? I'd want the initial at ~15. Find out what's wonky with the timing reading. Holler back when you can


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Re: Dead rich, nothing helps [Re: RapidRobert] #1464129
07/07/13 07:47 PM
07/07/13 07:47 PM
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topside Offline
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Is it dribbling fuel out of the shooters? Are the air bleeds plugged? Does it respond to idle mixture adjustments? Is the choke opening properly?
A vacuum leak would lean it out.
12-18 degrees initial (vac adv unplugged) is a ballpark.
I assume no varmints have made a home in the air cleaner.

Re: Dead rich, nothing helps [Re: 74-440Charger] #1464130
07/07/13 07:53 PM
07/07/13 07:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,643
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74RALLYE Offline
top fuel
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Pull the carb and give it a detailed cleaning. Corn gas will crust up and make bad things happen.

Re: Dead rich, nothing helps [Re: topside] #1464131
07/07/13 07:56 PM
07/07/13 07:56 PM
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Graham, WA
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Polarapete Offline
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It sure seems that it is a power valve problem to me. I used to do mobile service calls and had one in the SeaTac Airpot parking garage with a Rambler V-8 and a Holley. I was able to get the family home by plugging the blown PV with JB weld with the advise that they could only use part throttle to get them home (85 miles)and then have the PV replaced by their local mechanic. I would try a PV plug and see if that cleans up the idle. Couldn't hurt to try.


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Re: Dead rich, nothing helps [Re: RapidRobert] #1464132
07/07/13 08:47 PM
07/07/13 08:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
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FL
74-440Charger Offline OP
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Mechanical advance only MSD pro billet distributor, I set for 25 on the plate and 13 initial and had to advance the heck out of it to get it to run at all. Same mechanical pump, I ran carb cleaner thru the air bleeds. Has four corner idle all closed runs best...weird, I,m about ready to send it to the crusher

Re: Dead rich, nothing helps [Re: 74-440Charger] #1464133
07/07/13 10:12 PM
07/07/13 10:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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could be the coil, or MSD rusted inside.

sure sounds like a bad power valve did you get the gasket in tight??

got another to try.

I've seen the block to main body gaskets do the rich thing too.

Do you have a good running carb to borrow and swap on.

Do you still run the ballast resistor if so run a double male spade to join the wires.

you put fresh fuel in?


Re: Dead rich, nothing helps [Re: 74-440Charger] #1464134
07/07/13 10:15 PM
07/07/13 10:15 PM
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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I once bought a 3 barrel they said many different carb experts looked at and it runs pig rich.

so i paid 80 buck for it telling my buddy I was sure it was the power valve.

And it was piece of gasket material stuck in it.

problem solved ran good sold it a couple years later for $150.

wish I still had it to play with.

Last edited by Dodgem; 07/07/13 10:16 PM.
Re: Dead rich, nothing helps [Re: Dodgem] #1464135
07/07/13 10:35 PM
07/07/13 10:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 273
FL
74-440Charger Offline OP
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I do have another power valve to try, I will pull it off tomorrow and swap the PV and soak it and scrub it and hit it with air and see what happens. Had to walk away fro it for today , I really appreciate all the inputs.

Re: Dead rich, nothing helps [Re: 74-440Charger] #1464136
07/07/13 10:43 PM
07/07/13 10:43 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Assuming the throttle blades are closed down normally to where you are on the idle circuit if you then screw in the idle mixture screws all the way & it keeps idling then the PV is blown (the idle circuit is getting fed improperly from the PV)


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Dead rich, nothing helps. Fixed [Re: 74-440Charger] #1464137
07/08/13 10:44 PM
07/08/13 10:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
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74-440Charger Offline OP
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Re: Dead rich, nothing helps. Fixed [Re: 74-440Charger] #1464138
07/08/13 10:47 PM
07/08/13 10:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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And it was??

Re: Dead rich, nothing helps. Fixed [Re: Dodgem] #1464139
07/08/13 10:51 PM
07/08/13 10:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 273
FL
74-440Charger Offline OP
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I think the power valve was leaking.

Re: Dead rich, nothing helps. Fixed [Re: 74-440Charger] #1464140
07/08/13 10:56 PM
07/08/13 10:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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Glad it's fixed!







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