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9. For a modified car that is mainly used for local car shows, street cruising, taken on a good many long highway runs and not much else - Kielser

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And don't forget I haven't a clue what I am doing

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I don't know if you have a clue or not, looks like you have a nice looking Plymouth and you made it to track day. Are you famous?

I'd consider myself just knowledgeable enough about my old car to be slightly dangerous when I start any project. I installed my TKO-600 from Keisler over about 3-4 days and it seems to me that it went in and works "as-advertised"... and I'll admit that I haven't a clue what I am doing, with old cars or just about anything for that matter.

Darren

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Put a Passon in & forget about it. I did & I'm 110% happy with it in my 69 Bee with 4:10's. Went from 3200rpm to 2300 SWEET!!! 511 inch & 8 3/4 here. Car looks bone stock with 26" Goodyear PolyGlas tires

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Infamous not famous...

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First,
Let me say that I appreciate EVERYONE'S input. We are a firm believer that people should make an "EDUCATED" decision. Even if it is not our product. Money comes too hard these days. As for the statement that our transmission and the Keisler tremec kit costs about the same, I think I may have to disagree with you there. I have not spoken to ANYONE to date that has put a Tremec from Keisler in their car for less than $3800.00. Lets not talk about the "base kit." This does not matter what the base kit costs. What matters is the end cost. PERIOD. "How much are you going to have in the car when you put it in first gear and it moves."

We made the final drive .80:1 for a reason. STRENGTH. In order to get a deeper overdrive, the mainshaft gear would have needed to be smaller. This would have significantly weakened the unit. The way I looked at it was... Why put out another transmission that has a deeper overdrive, but can't handle the power? We were concerned with maintaining SUPERIOR strength in this unit. I feel that we have achieved that. As for too wide of a gear spread, one of our test cars is my '72 Barracuda. It is a BONE stock small block car. 340, stock manifolds, 2 1/4 inch exhaust, theroquad. It has F70-14 polyglas tires on it. The car is by no means a powerhouse. It will smoke the tires, all the way trhough first, second and into third with this unit in it. NOW, if the gear spread was too wide, I am fairly confident that it would show up in this car due to its lack of power. But, whatever the case. As for final drive. Keep one thing in mind. More overdrive is not always better for gas mileage. If you are lumbering along on the highway at 2000 rpm on the transition circuit of your carburetor, you are surely going to get worse mileage. So, choose carefully. If you have a 4.10 rear in your car. It drops it down to a 3.28 with our unit. If anyone needs any info, let me know.
Thanks,
Jamie

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First,
Let me say that I appreciate EVERYONE'S input. We are a firm believer that people should make an "EDUCATED" decision. Even if it is not our product. Money comes too hard these days. As for the statement that our transmission and the Keisler tremec kit costs about the same, I think I may have to disagree with you there. I have not spoken to ANYONE to date that has put a Tremec from Keisler in their car for less than $3800.00. Lets not talk about the "base kit." This does not matter what the base kit costs. What matters is the end cost. PERIOD. "How much are you going to have in the car when you put it in first gear and it moves."

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I disagee with the comparison of apples to apples being our aluminum unit to the Tremec. Have you checked the weight? Our CAST IRON trans weighs 120 lbs. The Tremec in ALUMINUM weighs like 118 lbs if I am not mistaken. Our ALUMINUM unit weighs 85 lbs. SO, if you want to compare aluminum to aluminum, we are WAY lighter than the Tremec.

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Scott,

As far as the comment about strength I don't think there is a real difference.

Shifting the TKO is not sluggish. I am going to consider the source of that comment. There is a bit of a learning curve some of us haven't mastered when it comes to shifting a trans.

It's funny to me when you drove a couple of Matt Delany's cars with our product on Power tour and were selling our product a couple of years ago you were nothing but complimentary.

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Gene I will go on record as never installing one of your units,but to compare an internal rail type of shifter to an external Hurst or Long shifter is apples to oranges.You will never be able to shift an internal shifter as fast as an external shifter.
It will always be more "slugish" than an 833 transmission.
Gus

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I'd have to disagree with ya Gus,....I have a Keisler TKO .64OD 5 spd in my Tona' with a 70 B body pistol grip shifter, the throws with the Keisler, even with the 70 B body console pistol grip are akin to the throws in the shorty E body pistol grip,..... shifting an original 4spd 70 B body pistol grip is like rowing a boat!


I have had the opertunity to equip a lot of different Mopars with Keislers, the throw distance is remarkably less with the Keisler,......And once a driver has "broken" his old habits of trying to slam the shifter into gear, he/she soon learns how much faster they can shift,......trust me!, I can shift a Keisler faster than I could any of my other 4 spd equipped Mopars........it takes more than a few days to break you old habits,....esp 3rd gear!

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Gus......everybody wants to be, or thinks they're Ronnie Sox,.......one problem racing the Tremec on the track or street, is losing your concentration, and going back to old school grab and slam shifting, just can't do that with a Tremec,.....3rd gear, if forced, just locks you out,....akin to missing a shift on a 4spd, regardless of the shifter,......comes down to driver skill, and hand dexterity, as well as RPM, traction, etc.......I'm sure ol' Ronnie missed a few too!

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....that sums up the most frequent call I receive. " I can't slam 2nd to 3rd". After I get done explaining to them that the gates are so close together on a TKO that if you go and "hunt" for 3rd, you'll miss it every time. The key to shifting 2nd to 3rd on a TKO, be it a stock in the box, unmodified unit, or a Keisler modified one, is simply pushing the shifter handle straight forward out of 2nd and it will find 3rd all on it's own. I never get a follow up call from people who tried my method and still can't hit 2nd to 3rd.


Let's face it, the gates on an external linkage 4 speed (muncie, A833 or toploader) are further apart and "require" you to go up, over and up again to hit 3rd. Try that method on a TKO and you'll be cussing alot.

Heck, my daily driver mustang (2000 GT) with it's T45, can't shift like the old school 4 speed pattern. I have to shift it the same way a TKO shifts, or I miss 3rd in it as well.
Once you get accustomed to shifting it, the TKO is extremely fast and reliable.



Richard
Tech Support

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whats your mileage without using the overdrive?

You claim 22mpg??? i find that very hard to believe. not at 70. not at 55mph. maybe at 30 mph. even with your aerodynamic nose.

At .64 od, that 4.10 looks like a 2.62 gear. there was never a 440 6 pack Ive ever seen that got close to that mileage with a 2.76. Maybe 15 mpg at best with a light foot and tiny tiny cam. so you'd have to drive it like a baby even with your mileage master cam

factory cars with 3.23 got 13mpg at best.

Stick some meat under those lobes and your down around 10 mpg.

as for running 140, you run your car on a roundy round track. So besides you, there are probably 3 other guys on here that do that for speed. the rest of them want the overdrive for mileage or for cruising on the freeway.

What I am saying is that the milage difference from turning 3600 rpm to 2300 on the freeway is probably, at the most, 5 mpg. most of these cars get 2500 miles a year MAX due to insurance. and even then, most of that mileage is playing the streets. I wouldnt see any benefit in an od. Im not a power tour guy.

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Dan I have avg 22 MPG recently on a trip from Mass to Georgia (3400 miles roundtrip).....crusing at 70-75 mph,(2000-2200 RPM)....21 hrs straight thru, only stopping for gas, didn't even shut the car off, until I got to my hotel......next day did a few laps around Road Atlanta speedway........total gas cost, round trip was around $450 bucks,.....and gas avg anywhere from $2.50 to $3.50 depending on the state,........I was watching my MPG use, at every fill up, recording my MPG.....22MPG was my avg


If I want to play, I can suck it down to 10 MPG if I have the end carbs open all day!



And as far as your comment that I run "roundy round" tracks, and most guys only want the OD for cruising and highway............I enjoy triple digit speeds on the highway, just as much on a track

for Camming, I run a Crane 470/471 @ 285 duration with anti pump up lifters, and Crane 1.6 rockers....so there's some "beef" there!


Dan,........like I said earlier, if your happy with "old school" thats cool, that's your "bag".....I use to be the same way, I recall when Keisler came out with the Mopar/Tremec swap in the late 90's, and expounded all the virtues of it,....I can recall saying no way I'd do that to any of my cars,........well ... after having done it, A Keisler is now the first thing on the list...I still have my "old school" Challenger T/A 340/6, 4spd 3:91...255/60/15's.......on the street it's a blast to drive, on the highway 60 mph is 3800-4000 RPM!......I hate to take it anywhere because driving long distance just drains you!........A Keisler TKO .64OD is slated for that one when I repaint the car

All I can say is the TKO 5spd lets me enjoy steep gears on the streets, and lets me enjoy knowing I can take the car 1000, 3000 or 4000 miles with out having to change a rear gear set out, or trailering the car......I don't build show poodles or show queens, although I do like my cars to look good!....I build cars to race on the street and track, cruise and enjoy as well......when you have to trailer, or leave a car home because its undrivable,.....thats no fun.........and as far as trying to justify the cost of a Keisler....Why?.....it's just like any other mod,...why put a Hemi in a car, when a /6 gets you from A to B just as well?......You put a Keisler, or anybody elses OD, be it Passon, GV, TKO, etc, etc.......for one thing, a performance aspect, be it the benefits of OD, mileage, reduced wear, or pure driving enjoyment......basically having your cake and eating it too


Another example of the Keisler versitality is several of the G-series (71 wingcars) that I built with the Beinkes (Gary and Pam)......the white 71 Tona' runs a 472 HEMI with one of my custom cast aluminum HEMI sixpack manifolds,....Keisler .64 OD TKO 5spd w/ dana 4:10's.......the car, on it first trip to Carlisle made 18 MPG AVG!(75-80 MPH avg cruising speed))........The orange 71 HEMI Superbird sports one of my HEMI 6 pak inductions as well, runs a .64 Keisler OD,...dana 3:54....dynoed out at 520 HP......avg 16 MPG on the 06 Power Tour( avg cruising speed 90-100 MPH).....and is fully capable of pegging the 150 speedo................Dan I'm not trying to "sell" you on anything here, just expounding the benefits that can be reaped, if you desire?

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whats your mileage without using the overdrive?

You claim 22mpg??? i find that very hard to believe. not at 70. not at 55mph. maybe at 30 mph. even with your aerodynamic nose.

At .64 od, that 4.10 looks like a 2.62 gear. there was never a 440 6 pack Ive ever seen that got close to that mileage with a 2.76. Maybe 15 mpg at best with a light foot and tiny tiny cam. so you'd have to drive it like a baby even with your mileage master cam

factory cars with 3.23 got 13mpg at best.

Stick some meat under those lobes and your down around 10 mpg.

as for running 140, you run your car on a roundy round track. So besides you, there are probably 3 other guys on here that do that for speed. the rest of them want the overdrive for mileage or for cruising on the freeway.

What I am saying is that the milage difference from turning 3600 rpm to 2300 on the freeway is probably, at the most, 5 mpg. most of these cars get 2500 miles a year MAX due to insurance. and even then, most of that mileage is playing the streets. I wouldnt see any benefit in an od. Im not a power tour guy.

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I am running a TKO (Keisler), 440-6(e-brock heads and Huges 535/515 cam), 3.91 cogs, 26" tall rear rubber. I religiously got over 20mpg driving from Chicago to St. Louis to MMW. 24MPG was the high. Made that run three times and was cruising at about 2200rpm at 69-72mph. Just as a reference for the MPG club.

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I'd really like to thank both Jamie and SHaffi for providing input into this thread. That says a lot about both of them and their products they sell. I really do appreciate hearing their opinions as well. Its nice to know they care about the products they sell.
THANK YOU!

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i have the Spec stage 3 clutch setup. I do not think it is heavy at all.

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Yes I do. I installed my unit in March 06. I think I have the first "Perfect Shift 3" to come off the line. Unit works great > I have about 13k miles on it so far.

The only thing that would make this better is if Chrysler had put that Torsion bar crossmember about an inch higher!

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Hey Gene,

I've been going contemplating the conversion from 727 to tremec in my '70 Dart for a couple of years now. I think I may have finally gotten up the nerve (and the money), but I'm still troubled by the need to cut the torsion bar x-member. Any chance you could post a worm's eye view of how much cutting is necessary on the A-body? Have there been any changes in the kit (fit-wise) since the days of the Green Brick conversion?

Hoping to be soon.

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Hello Matt,

We have made some mods to the trans in the area for the torsion bar crossmember.This has reduced the need in many cars. We still see guys having to notch the torsion bar member but it is small. There is some differences in cars and condition also plays a part in this as well.

I think I just did a little dance around your question.

Unfortunately there is no rhyme or reason for this.

So with a little bit of this you will be able to do alot of this

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We have made some mods to the trans in the area for the torsion bar crossmember.This has reduced the need in many cars. We still see guys having to notch the torsion bar member but it is small. There is some differences in cars and condition also plays a part in this as well.

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Gene, I know every car is different but are you saying SOME A-body installs can now be accomplished without notching the x-member? Just wondering, I'm not asking you to predict either way on my particular car.

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Gene,
Thanks for the invite. I do appreciate it. However, the last time I did that it only got me into a HUGE "discussion" on this board that ended up getting the post locked and started a whole bunch of hard feelings. So, that being said, thank you, but I thought it better to not bother you guys. If I remember, wasn't there a guy there anyway? I didn't want to interrupt you.

Now to some math:

Here is my biggest problem with you guys saying that the ratios in our trans are so wide.

1st to 2nd gear change is 1.07 in our unit. It is 1.00 in yours. Maybe I am out in left field, but I really don't call that tremendously different.

2nd to third gear change is .59 in our unit. It is .61 in your unit. So, you are actually wider there. Again, I am not going to say that you are tremendously wide either. But in fairness, I never claimed that you were.

3rd to 4th is .20 in our unit and .28 in yours. AGAIN, WIDER!!!!!!

Yes, you have a 4th to 5th gear shift. However, when talking ratios, that is not relevant.

In my opinion, the ONLY thing that you guys have over us is a taller OD. Which is fine, however, it seems to me that strength might be compromised by doing this. That is why we didn't make a steeper OD. We were concerned about making the stongest unit we could. Regardless, I have not personally had ANYONE call me complaining that the OD was not enough.

Now, I know the story of the transmission fixture breaking at 1400 lb/ft of torque, but lets be serious, if this were the case, a tremec trans would be virtually IMPOSSIBLE to break. I think that we both know that his isn't the case. I find it wierd that if they can take 1400 lb/ft of torque, then why are they rated at LESS THAN HALF of that number???? I know this, If my unit could take 1400 lb/ft of torque, I sure as heck would not rate it at less than half of its capabilites.

By the same token, I am not saying that one of our units is unbreakable. BUT, I am quite confident that it will take more than 600 lb of torque.


Lets look at another aspect here.

Howabout how steep your 1st gear is?

The final drive ratio in each gear is calculated by multiplying the transmission gear ratio by the rear end ratio. I picked a generic ratio that is a good rear ratio in a car that is a candidate for an overdrive. So, lets do some more math.

Your first gear: 2.89 X 4.10 = 11.84 final drive
Our first gear: 2.66 X 4.10 = 10.90 final drive

That is a .94 difference. The way that you guys talk about how crappy our ratios are, this is a MONUMENTAL difference in gear ratios. No wonder why no one mentions it. So, why isn't anyone pointing this out??????? It seems like a relevant point to me.

Let me also say, there is not personal attack here at all. It is simple math. I am just amazed at how you guys "gloss over" the tremec's shortcomings and point out that our unit has such a horribly wide gear spread. The fact is: IT DOESN'T.




Jamie

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Better watch out guys!....the waaambulance is just around the corner


Seriously, Keisler and Passon make GREAT products and offer GREAT service!.......and it's different strokes for different fokes.....the about gear spreads is rather ......I personally enjoy the Keisler gear ratios, esp the .64 OD.....there's nothing out there to compare with this!....nothing!


Of course Keisler gets my "Kudos" all day!.....but if I was building a totaly stock appearing 4spd car.....I'd go with a Passon box, for the ability of an OD in a stock case.......but again, it comes down to what the owner has in store for his/her car.......a forum pissing match really isn't going to sway a customers finial decision

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a forum pissing match really isn't going to sway a customers finial decision

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From situations I've seen in the past between vendors, this is relatively pretty civil.

But worse than a pissing contest is teasing and namecalling. I don't think either position/party in this thread needs to result to that yet. It just turns off customers from making any decision.

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Better watch out guys!....the waaambulance is just around the corner

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Why don't the snake charmers come out with a customer service policy of satisfaction guaranteed or your money back?? It is supposed to be a perfect fit product so why not?? The truth is the product is not a perfect fit and they are snakes. Snakes slither last I checked...

For over 6 yrs now we have talked constantly about the lack of customer service and fitment problems, along with no reasonable return policy whatsoever. Threads have been locked, people have gone to swap meets and confronted the snake charmers Nothing has changed except for some paid promotion from some blind customers.





Tom,.....I've seen your posts for many years, and while I can't speak on Keisler's behalf, I can only expound my experiences with them,...regarding their Customer service, I've never had any problems getting assistance when needed, wether it be verbal assistance or a part replaced, or exchanged,......I don't know what you mean by a "resasonable" return policy,....perhaps you should elaborate?.......and I'm neither paid nor compensated by Keisler for any "promotion",....and last I checked, my vision was 20/20 both eyes, hindsight not included!


Overheard at a swap meat at the snake charmer school swap spot...

They sent him the wrong flywheel(he has a cast crank).



Tom, I had this same problem with Keisler, Hays, and Summit, and PAW as well......guess what, a simple call, it was returned and replaced

The master cyl for hydraulic clutch was bad.


I've had this problem ONCE with Keisler, in their "defense", they don't make the master, merely offer it,.....but guess what, a phone call later, a replacement was on the way

The trans was jambed and had to be 'broken in' before street driving,


Not too sure what your trying to convey here?....but if your refereing to the intial break in period, yes the Keisler TKO 5 spd is "balky" in 1st and reverse gear for about the first 2-300 miles, after that shifting is no longer a problem,......I take it, you had to crawl before walking also

The sheet metal supplied for conversion was a poor attempt


Yes!,...in full agreement with you Tom, a factory style hump should be supplied with the kit, if not the customer should be made aware of the need for one

The shifter sucked and buzzed(subsequently fixed by having to replace the shifter mechanism),



On some applications, many years ago, the first generation shifter tower would exhibit a "buzzsaw" vibration at certain speeds/ RPM's.....The issuse has been eliminated with the Keisler 3rd generation shift tower, if I recall in some past threads, Richard at Keisler went out of his way to replace any readers/posters on Moparts who had old shift towers with new 3rd generation shifters if they requested for no charge

The adapter for shifter supplied was poor quality.


Yes, some of the early adapters were aluminum, and would not hold up to prolonged use, I've experienced that myself, and conveyed my concerns to Keisler, guess what.....a steel/ improved replacement(s) were issued, no charge

The customer berated the head snake to death calling him derogatory names and commenting on his ineptness when it comes to PROPERLY engineering product...




Well Tom,....I've VOLUNTEERED (meaning no pay or compensation Tom) my time/ effort at manning a quite a few Keisler venues around the east/mid coast shows, Mopar, and multi-make, also displaying my products, equipped with Keislers TKO and plus4 Auto applications,........never once experienced any "distraught" customers,....I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I would think the old saying,...."You can get more with honey, than ".....goes a long way for either one involved, anyone who runs any business has had to deal with an irate customer, regards of who's right or wrong

And once thought only unique to unrestored purple AAR cuda's...drumroll please...The driveline angles were way off...


Well....Tom, if your installing any item into a vehicle, that it wasn't intended for, regardless of wether it's promoted as "bolt in",...."perfect fit", etc. etc.....I myself would be very diligent in making sure that the installation was proper, and if the driveline needed to be "re-phased",....so be it, there's a lot of variables between applications, that can't be addressed, or known about, until the part(s) are in the field,.....regarding driveline angles, I often find, it's the owner who is addimantly against modifing the crossmember, or floor to properly phase a driveline if needed,.....granted most people are ill-equipped for fabrication, they lack the tools/ and/or knowledge,....I've corrected a few ill attempts of some of my customers "home" Keisler installs that were the direct result of installtion errors, or not having a "working" knowledge of a driveline, it's componets, and proper installation,.....they were always quick to blame Keisler, but blind to their own shortcomings

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I've run all three overdrive tranys, I feel the Passon one is by far the best. Gearvenders is a force to recon with if you have a heavy car that makes unreal power they are the only way to go. Now if you want to collect a bunch of broken ford mustang tranys, by a Keisler. A Keisler is fine behind a gutless small block. As far as service, Jamie is the man, and with Keisler, a stop at your local junkyard should beable to hook you up with parts. So yes I will run a Passon trany again, and I will run gearvenders again, got one in my moterhome.

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Your comment dosen't hold much "water"

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Why don't the snake charmers come out with a customer service policy of satisfaction guaranteed or your money back?? .....

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A bad experience 8+ years ago and you're still going on and on ....

The fact is, we do have a no questions asked "Return policy". It is outlined in our warranty and is readily available online. It reads:

"If the purchaser disagrees with any of the terms of this warranty, please return the purchased item to Keisler within three business days of receipt; Keisler will pay return postage. A decision by the purchaser to retain and install the item purchased will be deemed acceptance of the specific terms of this warranty".

It is expected that anyone spending the kind of money required to convert their car to a 5 speed, read the warranty policy BEFORE giving out their hard earned money. Fact is, most don't. That's not our doing. I for one take the time to read warranty policy's on big purchases I make.

It is also a fact that most guys doing the swap don't take the time to go thru the boxes they receive and inventory their items. Most wait until they have scheduled shop time or enlisted the help of friends. They open the boxes Friday night or Saturday, find that something is wrong and then go on a forum and blow up about "they suck or they didn't do this right" blah blah blah. Like DAYCLONA...I never understood that. Why in the world would someone drop 3 grand or more and then push the packages to the side for a month or more without ever opening the boxes? Donald Trump I could understand, the rest of us...... I just don't get it. It is for that very reason, we now include in our paperwork, a sheet telling you to open up the boxes and do a complete inventory and let us know of any discrepancies WITHIN 10 days of receipt. Hell, I have guys calling me now who purchased a kit back in 2004 and are just now getting around to installing the product only to find they are missing something. While I did ask them why they didn't inventory the boxes 4 years ago, I still helped them out and got them what they needed. Try that with Summit and let me know how that worked out for you.

As anyone that has dealt with me knows, we/I do everything I can to accomodate the customer. If we ship something wrong, I send the correct part, along with a return shipping label, to the customer. We do expect to receive said wrong part back within 10 days or phone calls will ensue. If that fails, then we have no choice but to charge for the parts until we receive them back. Even customers living Hawaii can have something returned within 10 days so that is not un reasonable.

Now on the other hand, if the customer provided the wrong information and subsequently was shipped the wrong part(s) because of it, then yes, you will be charged for the correct one IF YOU WANT IT SHIPPED BEFORE WE RECEIVE THE INCORRECT BACK. Other wise, return it to us and as soon as we receive it, we will send out the correct one.
Is that unfair? I don't think so. Try that with Summit.


For 4 1/2 years now all I have read on here is that you don't like Keisler or the product, we get it. Something happened 8+ years ago that you are unhappy with and like the energizer bunny, you just keep going and going and going. Let's face it, nobody working at Keisler right now was here 8 something years ago except Shafi himself. Fact is, I have been here the longest of any of the current employees and I have been here a little over 4 1/2 years now. I was hired in as customer service/tech support and I think my posts on here and my willingness to help out, speaks for itself. Ther are alot of members on here who have dealt directly with me over one situation or another and I can honestly say, none of them were unhappy with my customer service that I know of. I have given out my personal cell phone number MANY times to members of Moparts so they could pick my brain at nights and on weekends. Have you had anyone at Summit do that for you?


Good lordy man.....let it go already.



Richard
Tech Support

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.....So you are saying that if you make the mistake on your end you will not ship the right part until you get the wrong part back?
....

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No, that's not what I said at all. Go back and re-read it. I said that if WE make the mistake, I send the correct part, along with a pre-paid shipping label to retrieve the incorrect one, up front.

If the customer makes a mistake, then we ask that the incorrect part(s) be returned first BEFORE we ship the correct at no charge. If they need the correct one up front, then they need to pay for it and then we will credit them back after we receive back, the incorrect one. At the very least, I have re-sent the correct parts when I was provided a tracking number for the incorrect parts.

As I said in my other response, I don't know who your brother dealt with 8+ years ago but there is no one here now that was here 8+ years ago. I also apologized for his troubles on more than one occassion, yet everytime he posts in a thread involving Keisler, it's the same old rhetoric.
I cannot speak as to what happened here 8+ years ago. I can speak as to what happens here now and within the past 4 1/2 years since I have been here in customer service and tech support. Those who have had issues since I have been here, should be able to say that they were treated fairly by me.


Everytime a thread starts that has the name "Keisler" in it, it always revolves back to the same old crap. This thread was started by someone who was looking for benefits and negatives about going with either a Keisler kit or a Passon kit. Now look where it has gone to.
It has been posted earlier in this thread that we have the utmost respect for Jamie Passon and his product and that it has it's place in the Mopar community. For those who are looking for a deeper overdrive, then we are a viable option.



Richard
Tech Support

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and this is why it is so important for a company to have a good product that works as advertised. and if a bad one slips happens to slip out the door, the company needs to provide good customer service everytime, every sale, all the time, ......

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And as DAYCLONA and others have said....our product does work as advertised just as Passon tranny's works as advertised. This thread was initially about comparing a TKO to an overdriven A833. Somewhere along the line, it took a left turn.

Comparing a bad experience that someone had 7 or 8 years ago to a company today is not accurate. Businesses, if they are any good, evolve with time and continue to grow. Keisler has evolved 10 fold from it's original beginnings 17+ years ago. Hell, I have seen it change dramatically in the 4 1/2 years I've been here. My point was a person(s) who feels like they got dealt a bad hand almost a decade ago cannot accurately say or assume that the company is still the same now as it was back then.


Richard