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Re: B-body 11" rear drums - how hard to find? [Re: RapidRobert] #1422652
04/27/13 11:58 AM
04/27/13 11:58 AM
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David_Trimble Offline OP
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Quote:

What about having your current shoes arced to fit your current drums? Here they do for $5 per corner/fast turnaround/good finish on the shoes. It dont seem like they take off hardly any material but I've checked before/after & way more contact area afterwards & I was surprised how little contact there was before in supposedly "concentric" drums/linings. EDIT even new stuff will be slightly out of round & have a point where there is contact at that 1 point as tthe wheel/drum rotates & even if the drum is perfect the rest of the shoe assy ain't & will have that 1 place that will make contact first




I might look into that to see if someone around here can arc the shoes. These are new/old shoes (new as I bought them and installed them, old becuase I bought them and installed them 10 years ago- but they've yet to see road use) So they really haven't been broken in yet.

The reason why I'm going over the brakes with a fine-toothed comb is that I've noticed in moving the car around that the brake pedal almost goes to the floor (PB, rebuilt master and booster) so I'm wondering if I've got some slop somewhere in the wheels that's causing this (as far as I can tell there's no misadjustment/slop in the booster/master cylinder/pedal assembly) So I'm being extra careful to make sure the wheel adjustments are correct.


'69 Dodge Charger R/T
Re: B-body 11" rear drums - how hard to find? [Re: David_Trimble] #1422653
04/27/13 12:18 PM
04/27/13 12:18 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline
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As you know to the floor ain't good. If you pull on the E brake then hit the brakes that'll quickly tell you if it's a rear brake clearance problem or not. If your brake shop has arcing equipment it made a difference on my braking with my used shoes & I'd do it with new ones too.


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Re: B-body 11" rear drums - how hard to find? [Re: RapidRobert] #1422654
04/27/13 03:46 PM
04/27/13 03:46 PM
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David_Trimble Offline OP
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Quote:

As you know to the floor ain't good. If you pull on the E brake then hit the brakes that'll quickly tell you if it's a rear brake clearance problem or not. If your brake shop has arcing equipment it made a difference on my braking with my used shoes & I'd do it with new ones too.



Unfortunately, when I had the body shop replace the floorpans they neglected to weld the e-brake cable guide bracket back in Fortunately I have the bracket, I just need to get the car to the shop to have it done (among other things- hence my trying to get the car road-worthy).

I guess I can adjust the cable to take up the extra slack but I don't know if that would affect the test. I'm assuming that if after applying the e-brake and hitting the brake pedal, if I notice that it doesn't go to the floor anymore that the back brakes are the culprit? And if there's no change then I might want to focus my attention to the front brakes?


'69 Dodge Charger R/T
Re: B-body 11" rear drums - how hard to find? [Re: David_Trimble] #1422655
04/27/13 09:13 PM
04/27/13 09:13 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline
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The E brake expands 1 shoe so it might take 1 pump to take up the wheel cyl space created but yes you'll be able to eliminate the rear shoe clearance & I dont think the clearance would/could be that excessive (low pedal reserve yes but not to the floor). Either; air/bad booster/excessive round nub clearance/bad M/C/excessive shoe/pad clearances. I forgot what's been done/checked. On a difficult case I cap the M/C & want a hard pedal with virtually no travel (idling) if the booster/MC is bled out & functioning normal then hookup 1 half & continue on. Holler how it goes David


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Re: B-body 11" rear drums - how hard to find? [Re: RapidRobert] #1422656
05/11/13 05:27 PM
05/11/13 05:27 PM
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David_Trimble Offline OP
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Well I replaced the driver's side rear drum (fit just fine), then I adjusted the shoes on that drum (much easier to do so now- drag is very even). Before I did the adjustment I tried the e-brake experiment- I mashed the brake pedal a couple of times (went down to the floor every time- didn't go instantly down to the floor without resistance, but I had almost reached the floor by the time I felt any appreciable firmness) to center the shoes before adjusting them. Then I applied the ebrake as far as I could go and checked the cable- it was pretty taut. Tried the brake pedal again but got the same result- no difference. So now I'm suspecting the front brakes. I'll finish off replacing/adjusting the right rear drum then tackle the fronts to see if something's going on with them.

Will keep you posted-
David


'69 Dodge Charger R/T
Re: B-body 11" rear drums - how hard to find? [Re: David_Trimble] #1422657
06/02/13 05:45 PM
06/02/13 05:45 PM
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David_Trimble Offline OP
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Things just go from bad to worse....

I finally got around to attempt to readjust the front brakes- in order to have some room to do it I need to turn the Charger around in the garage (small garage). But when I tried to back the car out, I found that I had NO brakes at all. The e-brakes worked though (thank goodness). The irritating thing though is that before I worked on the back brakes, at least the brake pedal worked a LITTLE. I think I can still readjust the fronts as the car sits, it's just going to be more difficult to do so.

But I'm now beginning to wonder if the front brakes are the culprit as I had first though. One thing I should mention is that some years ago when I first tore down the car (and long story short) I found that the car apparently had factory disk brakes but apparently one of the previous owners had swapped out the front disks (presumably along with the spindles) for 10" drums. I know this because A) the master cylinder/booster set - along with the lines - are specific to disk, and B) I found the proportioning valve (and it looks original), which I understand is used only on disk setups.

I'm wondering if there's a problem with the mismatched disk setup with the drums that's contributing to this poor/no brake issue? Any ideas?

David


'69 Dodge Charger R/T
Re: B-body 11" rear drums - how hard to find? [Re: David_Trimble] #1422658
06/04/13 06:48 PM
06/04/13 06:48 PM
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David_Trimble Offline OP
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Noone wants to take a shot at this? I'll listen to theories, ideas to try, etc....?


'69 Dodge Charger R/T
Re: B-body 11" rear drums - how hard to find? [Re: David_Trimble] #1422659
06/04/13 07:09 PM
06/04/13 07:09 PM
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dogdays Offline
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There needs to be a residual pressure valve to keep the brake shoes out close to the drums. A disk brake master cylinder won't have these in the front.

R.

Re: B-body 11" rear drums - how hard to find? [Re: dogdays] #1422660
06/04/13 10:21 PM
06/04/13 10:21 PM
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David_Trimble Offline OP
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Quote:

There needs to be a residual pressure valve to keep the brake shoes out close to the drums. A disk brake master cylinder won't have these in the front.

R.



Thanks.... I'm guessing that the residual pressure valve is part of the master cylinder (at least for the B-bodies)? If so then it sounds like I need to swap out the master cylinder for one that was used for drums, correct? If that doesn't solve my problem singlehandedly, it seems to me that it's still something that should be corrected.


'69 Dodge Charger R/T
Re: B-body 11" rear drums - how hard to find? [Re: Blakcharger440] #1422661
06/04/13 11:25 PM
06/04/13 11:25 PM
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696pack Offline
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Quote:

Its the 11 inch backing plates that are hard to find.




I have a pair I will sell.

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