360 Torque Monster build
#141569
10/26/08 11:29 AM
10/26/08 11:29 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 168 RI
MOPARS6768
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 168
RI
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I am going to build a 360 for my 85 W350 Crew Cab. It has a 727/np205/dana60 4.10gears and 33" tires. I have 2 complete 360 engines one has a 71 cast date that is a standard bore 2bbl truck engine. The other is an 86 cast date 4bbl truck engine. I plan to build the 71. I have been looking for a reliable combination that produces good power at low RPM and runs on pump gas. I was looking at the 360 torque monster build in the tech archives http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/smallblock/8.html. My question is how would this combination work if I used 360 heads that already have the larger valves? What is the advantage of the 302 heads is it the smaller combustion chambers produce more compression? I have a set of 915 heads on the 71, I'm not sure whats on the 86 and might be able to get a set of 308's. I plan on about 9.1 to 9.5 compression so it will have no problem running on pump gas. If any one has any other good 360 truck builds please post them This is my first engine build and I am trying to learn as much as possible. Thanks, Brian
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: AdamR]
#141571
10/26/08 01:24 PM
10/26/08 01:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,415 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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I have built several tq oriented 360s if I was doiong another one I would use a 360 with KB107 pistons at zero deck. Get magnum heads with just a touch of port work and a 30 degree back cut on the valves. They will make more hp and tq then even the 302 heads. To get the 302 to the same amount of flow as a magnum they need a ton of work and the chamber is just plain better in the magnum witch helps tq even more. Either have the bolt holes redrilled to use LA intakes or get a RPM air gap intake for the mag heads. Use a comp XE262 cam or a similar Voo-Doo cam. Use a felpro .039 thick head gasket. You will end up around 10 to one compression and it will run fine on pump gas because the magnum chamber is so good.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: MOPARS6768]
#141573
10/26/08 04:01 PM
10/26/08 04:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,415 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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I Live Here
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Since you have it already I would use the eddy. It is a good carb for that set up. You will need pushrods for the conversion from mopar performance and you will need the rockers and if you want to use your LD340 (good choice) you need to have the intake bolt holes re-drilled.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: MOPARS6768]
#141575
10/26/08 11:44 PM
10/26/08 11:44 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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I read the article in the tech archives, and they were using the Mopar P4452757 cam that specs out with 248/256 advertised duration and 0.410"/0.425" lift 110 LSA. That is a very mild and nearly stock cam. A stock 360 cam specs are 252/265 duration and 0.410"/0.412" lift.
The stock 318 engine in my 1986 W150 has the MoPar P4452759 cam, 260/268 duration, 0.430"/0.450" lift and it run pretty good.
My first 360 RV engine was built around 1979, and it was a basic 0.030" over with 9:1 compression flat top pistons, reconditioned stock heads, a mild Crower Baja Beast cam (I think it was about 210 duration @ 0.050".) That engine had headers, dual exhaust, a Holley street dominator single plane and a Holly 600 DP carb. That engine performed very good, and it semed to pull well from idle to 5,000 RPM.
I just freshned up another 360 I built a few years back. The engine used the KB232 Quench dome pistons for about 9.5:1 compression, AeroHead 360 heads with the 2.02"/1.60" valves and hardened seats. I did a mild porting job on the heads too. Originally I had a Hughes HE0914AL Cam (I think 208/215 duration @ 0.050?) and the recommended single springs/retainers. The engine used the standard Edelbrock Performer intake that was gasket matched to the 360 port size, and at the time I was running an Edelbrock 625 cfm AFB carb. This engine ran pretty good too, but I wanted more power so when I fresheded up the engine (re-ring, new bearings, etc.) I installed the Hughes HEH1523AL cam that specs out at 215/223 duration @ 0.050", 112 LSA, and 0.501"/0.539" lift using Crane 1.6:1 rocker arms. I also installed a Holley 670cfm Truck avenger carb, and Crane HI-6 ignition. Once I got the carb tuned the engine was running very strong.
If I built another 360, I would probbably just use a flat top piston like the Speed-Pro H116CP. The KB232 takes too much machine work, having to narrow pin width on the rods to 1", and mill the block and heads to get the correct quench. I think I would also use the magnum style heads. The magnum heads require rocker arm oiling through the pushrods, but that is no a big deal. That Hughes HEH1523AL cam is really nice for torque and performance, but if you want torque and economy you may want a slightly smaller cam.
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: 451Mopar]
#141576
10/27/08 12:18 AM
10/27/08 12:18 AM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 893 Tustin, CA
pishta
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 893
Tustin, CA
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How about an easy bolt on for an otherwise stock motor, an Edelbrock SP2P intake, pencil sized runners, will pull a trailer at idle and will never see the sunny side of 4000 RPM.
12 Grand Caravan 06 T&C 02 T&C 96 Breeze 65 Barracuda "S"
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: MOPARS6768]
#141578
10/27/08 08:55 AM
10/27/08 08:55 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826 NY usa
540challenger
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master
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NY usa
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Quote:
Thanks for the replys I am starting to lean towards the magnum head swap. Are all the magnum heads from 93-03 the same? Is there any difference between the 360 and 318 magnum heads. I have a quite few junkyards around that have trucks with magnum engines. Thans, Brian
All the Magnum heads are the same from the different years, motors, and castings.
Same size ports, values, and combusation chambers
However certain years were less like to crack then others a common problem in magnum heads.
I don't remeber the years but the 318 heads were less likely to be cracked.
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: MOPARS6768]
#141583
10/28/08 08:44 AM
10/28/08 08:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI
patrick
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if you don't plan on revving much past 4000 RPM either the mag or 302 heads will fit the bill...both will make about the same torque, the mags will pull to 5k-5500 RPM with a decent cam to make more HP.
for pistons, I'd use KB107's or sealed power H116CP's at 0 deck...with the closed chambered heads, you're looking at ~10.6:1 comp. I'd polish the chambers and knock off any sharp corners on the piston face to reduce the chance of hot spots/detonation. 302 heads, I'd just get a good 5 angle VJ, if you get into swapping valves out, I'd just go magnums.
if you go magnums, check out the enginequest mag heads from CMEngines.com. they quoted me a good price earlier this year. I'd have them set them up with OEM valves, 5 angfle valve job with the throat of the bowl 80-85% the valve diameter, and OEM GM 3.1/3.4/3.5L springs/retainers set up at about 1.67" IH. the 318B's are drilled with an LA intake pattern, I'd get those, and use an eddie performer intake and a tquad or Qjet.
for a cam, I'd look at the voodoo 60401 (302 head w/1.5 rockers)) or comp XE256 (mag head with 1.6's) with that amount of compression. I think you'd be fine on pump 93, maybe even pump 89 with one of these cams and have a boat load of torque & great throttle response.
one advantage of the mag engine is you get the ability to use a hydraulic roller cheaply.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: patrick]
#141584
10/28/08 09:15 AM
10/28/08 09:15 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,333 MARYLAND
69Cuda340S
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Quote:
if you go magnums, check out the enginequest mag heads from CMEngines.com. they quoted me a good price earlier this year. I'd have them set them up with OEM valves, 5 angfle valve job with the throat of the bowl 80-85% the valve diameter, and OEM GM 3.1/3.4/3.5L springs/retainers set up at about 1.67" IH. the 318B's are drilled with an LA intake pattern
I'd put some Engine Quest heads on there. They are new, cheap, and the quality of the cast is better then the factory heads. Here is an article on putting magnum heads on the LA block:
http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/smallblock/7.html
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: goldmember]
#141587
10/28/08 06:16 PM
10/28/08 06:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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I've seen 10:1 work on pump gas but the quench was correct(.035-040)
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: goldmember]
#141589
10/28/08 07:40 PM
10/28/08 07:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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I should not have provoked an argument. My bad.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: MOPARS6768]
#141593
10/28/08 09:03 PM
10/28/08 09:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263 Southwestern Ontario Canada
racealittle
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
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I paid $350 for a complete 1999 5.9 Magnum from a Dakota R/T, in running condition. It has 80,000 miles, no sign of blowby, some coking on the inside, a full quantity of slippery dark oil in the pan, the full serpentine setup less A/C compressor and the magnum exhaust manifolds. I bought an airgap style polished intake used for $100. The rest of the package will come from the original LA 360 in the car and some new gaskets. That's my definition of on a budget. Hopefully it will be the equivolant of a 300 hp magnum crate when it's complete. Why pay for machining when it's still good?
Last edited by MoparPhil; 10/28/08 09:06 PM.
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: MOPARS6768]
#141594
10/28/08 09:11 PM
10/28/08 09:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,415 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Kalispell Mt.
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New hemis are 10.5 compression 205 thermostats and run fine on 87 octane with very short duration cams and brittle pistons. Magnums have better chamber and being stuck on 91+ octane is not a big deal. More compression means more efficency and makes up the differance in price. I would shoot for 10 to 1 with magnums and that is conservative. The LD 340 runs out of steam at 6500 on a 340 and a touch less on a 360 if you had a regular performer you would shift the power down a tad but really not much. It will start makeing power around 2000 where even factory converters are just stalling any how. Get a small tube longest length you can find or some early magnum ex manifolds.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: HotRodDave]
#141597
10/30/08 09:58 AM
10/30/08 09:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,404 Michigan
MarkZ
Worthy
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Worthy
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,404
Michigan
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Quote:
New hemis are 10.5 compression 205 thermostats and run fine on 87 octane with very short duration cams and brittle pistons.
That probably has more to do with having aluminum heads and advanced ignition/timing controls than anything else. I would pay money to see that kind of a setup not detonate on a carbed motor.
Quote:
I would shoot for 10 to 1 with magnums and that is conservative.
10:1 on an iron headed motor with a short duration grunt cam is NOT conservative.
Last edited by MarkMullins; 10/30/08 10:02 AM.
1987 Fifth Avenue - 512/518/D60
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: HotRodDave]
#141599
10/30/08 12:38 PM
10/30/08 12:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Upper Midwest
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Here again the guy has the LD340. Why spend the money for another intake when this one will work fine. Sure it has a little higher RPM rating and performance but there is nothing wrong with its low end performance either. As for in the first post the poster also states that he is thinking of putting on an Airgap in lieu of the LD340. No point in that, there is so little difference in performance (if any) that the swap out would be money down the drain. Very probably get the best low end out of the OEM cast iron intake of the standard Performer which is not much more than an aluminum version of the cast manifold.
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: goldmember]
#141600
10/30/08 12:44 PM
10/30/08 12:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
I'm sorry,no need to feel bad. Lot's of things are possible and I've tried alot along the years but when giving advise to someone I would rather give advice that works 100% of the time than info that has much less chance of success.
No way you are going to give advice that will work 100% of the time. You aren't God. None of use can or will claim to be 100%. We all do our best but but in no way can we be as you claim, 100%..
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: MoparforLife]
#141601
10/30/08 02:52 PM
10/30/08 02:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501 Gainesville,FL
goldmember
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
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The point is it's the combo! It doesn't mean a thing that you could get away with something if everything falls into place,I know from experience,not reading a magazine and false assumtions. The poster is putting this in a truck! Not a much lighter A body. I don't think Spending the higher price for 91 octane is at all logical for the application. I built 360's with near 11 to 1 comp using magnum heads in the mid 90's and yes I agree they will tolerate slightly more comp I won't tell someone building for THIS APPLICATION that it's the smartest thing to do,Period.
Last edited by goldmember; 10/30/08 02:54 PM.
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: goldmember]
#141604
10/30/08 03:57 PM
10/30/08 03:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
The point is it's the combo!
BINGO
Quote:
I know from experience,not reading a magazine and false assumtions.
I am speaking from experience also - dating back into the mid sixties and forward to present. You don't need a bunch of compression or a lot of $$$ in a 360 to make it work and work very well. Been there many times. A realtively stock LA360 can be made to pull real well and still be a very dependable daily driver without a bunch of high tech workings. A stock low compression engine and stock heads will work good along with good RV type cam with valve springs to go with it, intake and carb and good free flowing exhaust system will do wonders and not have to mortgage the farm to do it.
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: dgc333]
#141608
10/30/08 06:38 PM
10/30/08 06:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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A stock 5.9 Magnum IS the 300 hp 360 crate motor. Check the part numbers. Cam, crank, heads, and everythign else is the same. Add your own intake and go. Get a 5.9 Magnum. Add a carbed intake and electric fuel pump. Hit the road. If you want a little more pulling power, you can swap to an RV type cam but that's optional. If you really want torque, swap in a real 5.9 (read: Cummins) and drag all the gassers sideways.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: HotRodDave]
#141610
10/30/08 07:26 PM
10/30/08 07:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
why saddle him with old information?
Just pointing out that a good torquey rig can be made with what he has on hand without having to invest in much of anything other than a cam and valve springs, including his stock cast iron 4 barrel intake by just freshing what he has with a set of pistons if needed. The 1.88 valves will work just fine for that application. the larger 2.02 valves can in fact not be a benefit on a lower RPM engine of this type. If he is like some of us working with limited funds it may help him out to know these things. It seems that it is real easy to spend someone else's money here . 'Nough said.
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: MoparforLife]
#141612
10/30/08 07:58 PM
10/30/08 07:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT
moper
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I Live Here
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Columbia, CT
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All kinds of info here. What's in my truck is an 87 360, with 80K miles. It has an XE262, performer (small port 318/360), factory original 308 heads with matching springs, cheap headers, and an Edelbrock 750 AFB. Basic, easy, pulls from idle, runs on 87, I dont ever see the high side of 4500, nevermind 5+, and it will spin the 31s w/4.10s all thru first gear. With a running engine to start with, I think all of it cost me about $900. That's what i'd do. It's a truck. It needs torque, and mileage.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: 360 Torque Monster build
[Re: moper]
#141613
10/31/08 08:41 AM
10/31/08 08:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
All kinds of info here. What's in my truck is an 87 360, with 80K miles. It has an XE262, performer (small port 318/360), factory original 308 heads with matching springs, cheap headers, and an Edelbrock 750 AFB. Basic, easy, pulls from idle, runs on 87, I dont ever see the high side of 4500, nevermind 5+, and it will spin the 31s w/4.10s all thru first gear. With a running engine to start with, I think all of it cost me about $900. That's what i'd do. It's a truck. It needs torque, and mileage.
similar to the combo in my car, but I've got an eddie RPM air gap and a 600. it is a good combo, but for a truck I'd back the cam down to a 208-212 .050 duration, like a voodoo 60400 or 60401.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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