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Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure?
#1411169
03/30/13 09:32 AM
03/30/13 09:32 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
OP
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OP
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Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Guys, I was driving my '73 Charger last week and noticed what sounded like a bolt hitting the underside of the car. I got it home and inspected the engine compartment and didn't see anything amiss. I figured I must have hit something on the road. I took it out last night and noticed that while it did drive straight, when braking it pulled hard to the left! Basically a lane change when I hit the brakes!  I figured stuck caliper but I peeked around under the car and and see that the two attachment bolts that secure the strut rod to the LCA on the driver's side are simply...gone. Other side is fine Any idea what would cause this? I have a hard time believing they were loose and both happen to fall out at roughly the same time. I am wondering if they were sheared off somehow. The suspension is stock excpet for polygrphite bushings and a bigger sway bar. Could this be putting stress on those bolts and maybe cause them to fail? Do I just need to go buy a set of grade 8 bolts and call it a day? Hope I am not overthinking this but I wan to know why this happened. Thanks! 
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Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure?
[Re: cjskotni]
#1411170
03/30/13 09:39 AM
03/30/13 09:39 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 178
Tidewater, VA
TMCCuda
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member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 178
Tidewater, VA
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Not sure for a '73 but the strut rods on my '70 e-body go from the k frame to the LCA and are threaded on both ends. The forward nut is secured with a roll pin. If the roll pin was left off after repair/ upgrades then I suppose it could come loose?
Are you sure it isn't the sway bar attaching point?
1970 Plymouth Barracuda
1994 Ram 1500 4x4 5.2L
2004 Ram 1500 4x4 5.7L Quad Cab
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Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure?
[Re: TMCCuda]
#1411172
03/30/13 10:45 AM
03/30/13 10:45 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
indiana
mcmopars
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
indiana
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Quote:
Not sure for a '73 but the strut rods on my '70 e-body go from the k frame to the LCA and are threaded on both ends. The forward nut is secured with a roll pin. If the roll pin was left off after repair/ upgrades then I suppose it could come loose?
Are you sure it isn't the sway bar attaching point?
i thought all strut rods go through the lca and are threaded.at least the a bodies are
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Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure?
[Re: twodoorpost]
#1411174
03/30/13 11:54 AM
03/30/13 11:54 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
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Quote:
For those unfamiliar with the set up in question, her's a pic of the lower control arm. As far as the problem, the bolts could have loosened up at different times, but the problem only became obvious after the second one fell out.
Thanks for the picure! Yes this is exactly what I am talking about. I find it hard to believe these loosened up on their own....I torqued all these down years ago myself.
I had the car in a few months ago for an alignment and to set camber, caster, etc. Would these have been loosened up to do those adjustments?
I just hate to fix this and have it happen again. Maybe I am just worrying too much about this.
Second question now:
How to get the strut rod back where I can align the holes to push the bolts through? I am guessing I will have to take the sway bar off its mounts on that side to give the strut rod more wiggle room so I can pry it back into place. 
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Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure?
[Re: moparmikethree]
#1411176
03/30/13 02:06 PM
03/30/13 02:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 178
Tidewater, VA
TMCCuda
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member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 178
Tidewater, VA
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Learn something new every day...
1970 Plymouth Barracuda
1994 Ram 1500 4x4 5.2L
2004 Ram 1500 4x4 5.7L Quad Cab
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Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure?
[Re: NachoRT74]
#1411180
03/30/13 08:01 PM
03/30/13 08:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
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Thanks for the help guys! I went ahead and replaced all four (both sides) with new stainless hardware and used the blue locktight on them so hopefully no issues in the future! I torqued them to 50 ft-lbs and did some massaging of the sway bar and its mounts, rebulubed the bushings, etc. I had a slight front end clunk on some turns before and now that's gone as well!! I tok it out to an empty lot and did some driver's ed type stuff and she is silent! Oh yeah, and doesn't change lanes when I hit the brakes! Thanks for the help and reassurance, guys! And yes, for those who don't know, 73 was a major turning point for the B-body suspension....totally different from the 72-before setups....makes getting good aftermarket parts hard for us later 3rd gen guys as we share the same suspension as the later B-bodies Cordobas, etc through 78 or so. 
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Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure?
[Re: jcc]
#1411184
03/31/13 03:10 PM
03/31/13 03:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
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Quote:
I agree dump the ss asap
Noted! I will swap these out for grade 8 in a few weeks when I can stomach getting back under the car.
Thanks for the help!
BTW found one of the missing bolts at the end of my driveway this morning. I am guessing when I was backing out a few days ago, this fell out and was the last straw.
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Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure?
[Re: moparx]
#1411185
04/01/13 04:55 PM
04/01/13 04:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,715
closer to Canadian beer!
torkrules
I'm neurotic
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I'm neurotic
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,715
closer to Canadian beer!
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Quote:
glad you got the problem fixed, but if i were you, i would dump those stainless fasteners asap ! stainless is not ment for critical load bearing situations as it has way less of the tensil strength of a grade 5 or 8 bolt. this is especially true of hardware store bolts which are usually inported. the main cause of this is the fact stainless is different from normal steel in that it doesn't tolerate as much stretching prior to failure. stainless may be good in the fact it does not rust, but i have not found a source that has the tensil strength i would trust for suspension applications. stainless may be good for show cars and trailer queens, but not, in my opinion, for the street or track.
I agree. I would go grade 8 or better. I even used lock nuts on my 74 Charger and checked them before bringing the car out in spring.
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Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure?
[Re: torkrules]
#1411186
04/01/13 08:18 PM
04/01/13 08:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 815
Alexandria, NJ
WayneM
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 815
Alexandria, NJ
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Older Dodge "D" series (2WD) LCA's are similar. I had one and had the same problem.
At the time I had access to awesome Caterpillar hardware (beyond Gr8) and I put em in. Never looked back...
2014 Durango R/T
2004 Dodge Ram 3500 SRW SLT short quad Cummins 6 speed
1998 Dodge Durango SLT 5.2
1971 Plymouth Duster-
<<<<<MOPAR SPOKEN HERE>>>>>
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Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure?
[Re: dogdays]
#1411188
04/02/13 12:23 AM
04/02/13 12:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,392
Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,392
Highland, MI.
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I agree - ditch the stainless bolts - not strong enough. You cannot harden stainless. Find some made in USA grade 8 - don't mess around with suspension hardware - use the very best! DO NOT use any made in China hardware! Their metallurgy is not good & their ratings cannot be trusted.
No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
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Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure?
[Re: Sunroofcuda]
#1411189
04/02/13 01:12 PM
04/02/13 01:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 16,376
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"you cannot harden stainless" tell that to the custom knifemakers who use surgical grade stainless steel in their creations. The problem with THIS WHOLE SUBJECT is this: Saying "stainless steel" is like saying "rice" or saying "bread". All three examples have many, many, varieties and the only thing in common is the name. It drives me crazy to hear some of the faulty explanations, none of which are true and even if they WERE true it'd only be for ONE VARIETY of stainless steel. To add to the problem most of the members of this board have little true understanding of metallurgy or "strength of materials". I put that last one in quotes because it is generally a second- or third-year college course for civil and mechanical engineers. It takes time to learn what is really happening, or at least a credible explanation of what is happening. So for now let's leave it at, "You'd be better off using US-made grade 8 bolts, 6 marks on the bolthead, and using the stainless steel bolts somewhere else." R.  Now I feel better.
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Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure?
[Re: dogdays]
#1411190
04/02/13 01:28 PM
04/02/13 01:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,386
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,386
Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
PS: Foreign bolts with 8.8 on the head are NOT grade 8 bolts and should be left in the bin.
X2.
Many foreign bolt manufactuers use metric grading scales which have a different set of formulas for determining strength and a foreign graded 8.8 is not an equivilent to a SAE grade 8. A foreign grade 12.9 may be bit closer to an SAE grade 8.
Agreed on SST types as well. 303, 304, 313, 316, 18-8, there are lots of different stainless grades.
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Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure?
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1411191
04/02/13 03:05 PM
04/02/13 03:05 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
OP
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I have already purchased the same bolts/nuts in Grade 8 and will swap them out soon. These were made in Taiwan (just like every other bolt in the store) but they have the 6 marks on them and were marketed as "SAE Grade 8". Good luck trying to buy bolts not made overseas. Even when I order bolts from McMaster Carr, they are almost always from China/Japan/Taiwan sometimes Germany for the SS rivets. Unless all these hardware stores are just flat out doing false advertising, I think I will be fine with these overseas bolts. I really hope so because I have used these Grade 8's all over my suspension in various places. I know how people here feel about all things made in China but that seems to be the way of the world. 
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Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure?
[Re: challengermike]
#1411194
04/02/13 11:25 PM
04/02/13 11:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,194
Harrisburg, Pa.
screamindriver
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,194
Harrisburg, Pa.
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Quote:
Make sure you look good at the upper control arm mounting tabs that they didn't crack where they are welded to the body. My car I have now had bad strut rod bushings and it broke off the tab that the upper arm bolts into because of the back and forward motion of the lower control arm. The person that owned it before me crashed at the track due to it busting off. This is an a body but im sure it still applys to a b body.
I've seen the mounting tabs have issues with the worn strut bushings also...But in 73 the B body went to a different UCA mounting system attached to the K frame...
Something to look for that has'nt been addressed :
The strut rod is a stout piece in 73 compared to the LCA mounting points...Make sure the loose/lost bolts did'nt oblong the holes in the LCA...You cant have any slop in those holes or the hardware won't have the ability to keep the strut in place...There's quite a bit of shock/stress all working against the fasteners.. 
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Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure?
[Re: screamindriver]
#1411195
04/04/13 10:56 AM
04/04/13 10:56 AM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
OP
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
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Quote:
Quote:
Make sure you look good at the upper control arm mounting tabs that they didn't crack where they are welded to the body. My car I have now had bad strut rod bushings and it broke off the tab that the upper arm bolts into because of the back and forward motion of the lower control arm. The person that owned it before me crashed at the track due to it busting off. This is an a body but im sure it still applys to a b body.
I've seen the mounting tabs have issues with the worn strut bushings also...But in 73 the B body went to a different UCA mounting system attached to the K frame...
Something to look for that has'nt been addressed :
The strut rod is a stout piece in 73 compared to the LCA mounting points...Make sure the loose/lost bolts did'nt oblong the holes in the LCA...You cant have any slop in those holes or the hardware won't have the ability to keep the strut in place...There's quite a bit of shock/stress all working against the fasteners..
I did check for the holes getting ovaled out and they look good! I am going to try and swap the bolts out today or tomorrow. I used 50 ft-lbs...is this a good spec? What would you guys recommend. This is using blue thread locker.
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There are some graded stainless bolts but only available through certain aircraft suppliers. I only use good quality American grade 8 bolts for ANY suspension part 
even the "specialty" nuts & bolts places that sell "showcar" stainless fasteners are suspect to me because i feel the asking price for their products seem to indicate only moderate quality. high quality ss fasteners are EXPENSIVE ! oh, don't forget the anti-seize or the threads WILL gall...... and not to stir the pot, but i'm just wondering if "surgical grade" stainless would be suitable for automotive use. maybe apples to cumquats comparison ?
