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Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? #1411169
03/30/13 09:32 AM
03/30/13 09:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni Offline OP
pro stock
cjskotni  Offline OP
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North Carolina
Guys,

I was driving my '73 Charger last week and noticed what sounded like a bolt hitting the underside of the car. I got it home and inspected the engine compartment and didn't see anything amiss. I figured I must have hit something on the road.

I took it out last night and noticed that while it did drive straight, when braking it pulled hard to the left! Basically a lane change when I hit the brakes!

I figured stuck caliper but I peeked around under the car and and see that the two attachment bolts that secure the strut rod to the LCA on the driver's side are simply...gone. Other side is fine

Any idea what would cause this? I have a hard time believing they were loose and both happen to fall out at roughly the same time. I am wondering if they were sheared off somehow.

The suspension is stock excpet for polygrphite bushings and a bigger sway bar. Could this be putting stress on those bolts and maybe cause them to fail? Do I just need to go buy a set of grade 8 bolts and call it a day?

Hope I am not overthinking this but I wan to know why this happened. Thanks!

Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: cjskotni] #1411170
03/30/13 09:39 AM
03/30/13 09:39 AM
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Tidewater, VA
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TMCCuda Offline
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Tidewater, VA
Not sure for a '73 but the strut rods on my '70 e-body go from the k frame to the LCA and are threaded on both ends. The forward nut is secured with a roll pin. If the roll pin was left off after repair/ upgrades then I suppose it could come loose?

Are you sure it isn't the sway bar attaching point?


1970 Plymouth Barracuda 1994 Ram 1500 4x4 5.2L 2004 Ram 1500 4x4 5.7L Quad Cab
Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: cjskotni] #1411171
03/30/13 09:44 AM
03/30/13 09:44 AM
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Elk Grove, Calif.
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bigblock340power Offline
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I am wondering if they were sheared off somehow.




Are all the threads still there? If so I don't see it (the bolts) shearing off. You have any pics?

Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: TMCCuda] #1411172
03/30/13 10:45 AM
03/30/13 10:45 AM
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Posts: 1,012
indiana
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mcmopars Offline
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indiana
Quote:

Not sure for a '73 but the strut rods on my '70 e-body go from the k frame to the LCA and are threaded on both ends. The forward nut is secured with a roll pin. If the roll pin was left off after repair/ upgrades then I suppose it could come loose?

Are you sure it isn't the sway bar attaching point?





i thought all strut rods go through the lca and are threaded.at least the a bodies are

Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: TMCCuda] #1411173
03/30/13 11:17 AM
03/30/13 11:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 665
NY
twodoorpost Offline
mopar
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mopar

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NY
For those unfamiliar with the set up in question, here's a pic of the lower control arm. As far as the problem, the bolts could have loosened up at different times, but the problem only became obvious after the second one fell out.

Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: twodoorpost] #1411174
03/30/13 11:54 AM
03/30/13 11:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni Offline OP
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cjskotni  Offline OP
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North Carolina
Quote:

For those unfamiliar with the set up in question, her's a pic of the lower control arm. As far as the problem, the bolts could have loosened up at different times, but the problem only became obvious after the second one fell out.




Thanks for the picure! Yes this is exactly what I am talking about. I find it hard to believe these loosened up on their own....I torqued all these down years ago myself.

I had the car in a few months ago for an alignment and to set camber, caster, etc. Would these have been loosened up to do those adjustments?

I just hate to fix this and have it happen again. Maybe I am just worrying too much about this.

Second question now:

How to get the strut rod back where I can align the holes to push the bolts through? I am guessing I will have to take the sway bar off its mounts on that side to give the strut rod more wiggle room so I can pry it back into place.

Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: cjskotni] #1411175
03/30/13 12:21 PM
03/30/13 12:21 PM
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Harrisburg Pa. 17112
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moparmikethree Offline
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Harrisburg Pa. 17112
someone was tampering with your car, maybe an ex.
time to sell the car.

Just put in 2 new good quality nuts and bolts and youll be fine.
torque them to proper setting

Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: moparmikethree] #1411176
03/30/13 02:06 PM
03/30/13 02:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 178
Tidewater, VA
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TMCCuda Offline
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Tidewater, VA
Learn something new every day...


1970 Plymouth Barracuda 1994 Ram 1500 4x4 5.2L 2004 Ram 1500 4x4 5.7L Quad Cab
Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: TMCCuda] #1411177
03/30/13 02:30 PM
03/30/13 02:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,062
Amherst,NY
challengermike Offline
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Amherst,NY
Make sure you look good at the upper control arm mounting tabs that they didn't crack where they are welded to the body. My car I have now had bad strut rod bushings and it broke off the tab that the upper arm bolts into because of the back and forward motion of the lower control arm. The person that owned it before me crashed at the track due to it busting off. This is an a body but im sure it still applys to a b body.

Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: cjskotni] #1411178
03/30/13 02:55 PM
03/30/13 02:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,549
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
I Live Here
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Rittman Ohio
Chris I would look into the way the alignment shop adjusted your caster.Maybe in an act of desperation he may have tried to get more caster by loosening the bolts and pulling the arm forward and he might have forgotten to tighten them afterward
Gus

7647163-savoyburnout.jpg (131 downloads)

64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
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Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: TMCCuda] #1411179
03/30/13 04:49 PM
03/30/13 04:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,089
Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline
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Valencia, España
Quote:

Learn something new every day...




yeap... 73 and lates B bodies changes ALL the front end system... that's one of the differences.


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: NachoRT74] #1411180
03/30/13 08:01 PM
03/30/13 08:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni Offline OP
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North Carolina
Thanks for the help guys! I went ahead and replaced all four (both sides) with new stainless hardware and used the blue locktight on them so hopefully no issues in the future!

I torqued them to 50 ft-lbs and did some massaging of the sway bar and its mounts, rebulubed the bushings, etc.

I had a slight front end clunk on some turns before and now that's gone as well!! I tok it out to an empty lot and did some driver's ed type stuff and she is silent! Oh yeah, and doesn't change lanes when I hit the brakes!

Thanks for the help and reassurance, guys! And yes, for those who don't know, 73 was a major turning point for the B-body suspension....totally different from the 72-before setups....makes getting good aftermarket parts hard for us later 3rd gen guys as we share the same suspension as the later B-bodies Cordobas, etc through 78 or so.


Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: cjskotni] #1411181
03/31/13 10:00 AM
03/31/13 10:00 AM
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north of coder
moparx Offline
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glad you got the problem fixed, but if i were you, i would dump those stainless fasteners asap ! stainless is not ment for critical load bearing situations as it has way less of the tensil strength of a grade 5 or 8 bolt. this is especially true of hardware store bolts which are usually inported. the main cause of this is the fact stainless is different from normal steel in that it doesn't tolerate as much stretching prior to failure. stainless may be good in the fact it does not rust, but i have not found a source that has the tensil strength i would trust for suspension applications. stainless may be good for show cars and trailer queens, but not, in my opinion, for the street or track.

Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: moparx] #1411182
03/31/13 11:38 AM
03/31/13 11:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,549
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
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Rittman Ohio
Quote:

glad you got the problem fixed, but if i were you, i would dump those stainless fasteners asap ! stainless is not ment for critical load bearing situations as it has way less of the tensil strength of a grade 5 or 8 bolt. this is especially true of hardware store bolts which are usually inported. the main cause of this is the fact stainless is different from normal steel in that it doesn't tolerate as much stretching prior to failure. stainless may be good in the fact it does not rust, but i have not found a source that has the tensil strength i would trust for suspension applications. stainless may be good for show cars and trailer queens, but not, in my opinion, for the street or track.




There are some graded stainless bolts but only available through certain aircraft suppliers. I only use good quality American grade 8 bolts for ANY suspension part
Gus

7648247-savoyburnout.jpg (95 downloads)

64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: moparx] #1411183
03/31/13 11:45 AM
03/31/13 11:45 AM
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Bitopia
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jcc Offline
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I agree dump the ss asap


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: jcc] #1411184
03/31/13 03:10 PM
03/31/13 03:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni Offline OP
pro stock
cjskotni  Offline OP
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North Carolina
Quote:

I agree dump the ss asap




Noted! I will swap these out for grade 8 in a few weeks when I can stomach getting back under the car.

Thanks for the help!

BTW found one of the missing bolts at the end of my driveway this morning. I am guessing when I was backing out a few days ago, this fell out and was the last straw.

Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: moparx] #1411185
04/01/13 04:55 PM
04/01/13 04:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,715
closer to Canadian beer!
torkrules Offline
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Quote:

glad you got the problem fixed, but if i were you, i would dump those stainless fasteners asap ! stainless is not ment for critical load bearing situations as it has way less of the tensil strength of a grade 5 or 8 bolt. this is especially true of hardware store bolts which are usually inported. the main cause of this is the fact stainless is different from normal steel in that it doesn't tolerate as much stretching prior to failure. stainless may be good in the fact it does not rust, but i have not found a source that has the tensil strength i would trust for suspension applications. stainless may be good for show cars and trailer queens, but not, in my opinion, for the street or track.





I agree. I would go grade 8 or better. I even used lock nuts on my 74 Charger and checked them before bringing the car out in spring.

Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: torkrules] #1411186
04/01/13 08:18 PM
04/01/13 08:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 815
Alexandria, NJ
WayneM Offline
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Alexandria, NJ
Older Dodge "D" series (2WD) LCA's are similar. I had one and had the same problem.
At the time I had access to awesome Caterpillar hardware (beyond Gr8) and I put em in. Never looked back...


2014 Durango R/T
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1998 Dodge Durango SLT 5.2
1971 Plymouth Duster-
<<<<<MOPAR SPOKEN HERE>>>>>
Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: WayneM] #1411187
04/01/13 09:08 PM
04/01/13 09:08 PM
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dogdays Offline
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Stainless varies in grade, some stainless steel is very strong. But the hardware store type bolts are probably not as strong as Grade 8, which is what I would use personally. It's all the bolt you'll need.

Mopar engineers didn't waste money on ultra-strong bolts, if they needed more strength they just used a bigger one! Grade 8 (six marks on the head) is as much as they used, to my knowledge. Well, except perhaps rod bolts.

R.

PS: Foreign bolts with 8.8 on the head are NOT grade 8 bolts and should be left in the bin.

Re: Strut Rod to LCA Bolts Failure? [Re: dogdays] #1411188
04/02/13 12:23 AM
04/02/13 12:23 AM
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Posts: 8,390
Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda Offline
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I agree - ditch the stainless bolts - not strong enough. You cannot harden stainless. Find some made in USA grade 8 - don't mess around with suspension hardware - use the very best! DO NOT use any made in China hardware! Their metallurgy is not good & their ratings cannot be trusted.


No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
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