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#14127 - 01/20/05 09:39 AM Re: Spindle article in March '05 Mopar Muscle [Re: Tomsecks]
Nobody Offline
super gas

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 1212
Loc: Pilot Mound, Iowa
Quote:

Well it was written by Bill Reily who IS alterkation and bigblockdart.




Well then, I am mistaken
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#14128 - 01/20/05 10:05 AM Re: Spindle article in March '05 Mopar Muscle
DoctorDiff Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 7818
Loc: Polson, MT
The UCA is redesigned so the upper ball joint is plumb when used with taller knuckles.
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#14129 - 01/20/05 07:55 PM Re: Spindle article in March '05 Mopar Muscle [Re: Montclaire]
autoxcuda Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 25782
Loc: So Cal
Quote:

.... I'm talking about a bolt-in, ready to go UCA that requires absolutely no thinking. "Install this upper arm on your (fill in the blank) mopar with the tall spindles and you will have the same geometry as if you used your stock or 73-76 a-body pieces." That's what they need to market, and they might even already make it. But that kind of advertising is what's going to sell parts. Then everyone wins.




That will not exist because an A-arm change ALONE will not do that.

The complete absolute infinitissimal 3-D geometry through it full range of motions will not have every geometrical result absolutely mirrored with a taller A-arm even if everything else is changed.

BUT changes can be made to make the handling and overall resulting behavior the same. Because there are so many input varibles in suspension design, there are many different paths to take to get to the same place.
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#14130 - 01/20/05 07:56 PM Re: Spindle article in March '05 Mopar Muscle [Re: Satilite73]
autoxcuda Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 25782
Loc: So Cal
The guy TAcare?? from Colorado plotted this out and posted it here more than once.

Bill Reily spend the time to measure a car and put the numbers in an impressive computer display.

People that have experience in suspension design understand the small height change is not a big deal and will bring a slight camber gain. Why spend 15-30 hours of effort to prove a web arguement?


Quote:

Glad to see some responses!

As for the article having been known over at bigblockdart.com, why hasn't anyone mentioned it before? I can't say I've read ALL the spindle threads here, but the ones I read, there was never any mention of someone having proved the tall spindles will work. Its always turned into a pissing match with a bunch of guys just saying stuff like 'I've used them on my car for years'.




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#14131 - 01/20/05 08:01 PM Re: Spindle article in March '05 Mopar Muscle [Re: DoctorDiff]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

The UCA is redesigned so the upper ball joint is plumb when used with taller knuckles.




I don't think I understand this. Unless you mean that the UCA ia a touch longer than stock so that the ball joint won't "overangle" as claimed by Ebooger. Of course no one has proven that to be a problem and I believe Dulcich did a little research into ball joint angles and pretty much concluded that wasn't an issue.

Thor

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#14132 - 01/20/05 08:03 PM Re: Spindle article in March '05 Mopar Muscle [Re: DoctorDiff]
autoxcuda Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 25782
Loc: So Cal
Quote:

The UCA is redesigned so the upper ball joint is plumb when used with taller knuckles.




you mean the UCA ball joint socket is tilted slightly. So the range of angles the ball joint at factory suspension height is not changed.

But this is not absolutely necessary in reality. But if you were making an new A-arm you should include it and that's why Dick added it. It's a nice to have, but not a must have.

Those UBA ball joint can take a lot of angle. Most every circle track car runs very large angles on those very same K772 ball joints.
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#14133 - 01/20/05 08:08 PM Re: Spindle article in March '05 Mopar Muscle
Montclaire Offline
master

Registered: 02/18/03
Posts: 7540
Loc: Scranton, PA
Quote:

I believe Dulcich did a little research into ball joint angles and pretty much concluded that wasn't an issue




Let's just be honest here. What you meant to say was, "some homeless dude wrote it down on a napkin and gave it to Dulcich, who then just reprinted it verbatim in MM without reading it." I'm not saying it's incorrect information. I'm just saying that I doubt Dulcich concluded anything.
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#14134 - 01/20/05 11:04 PM Re: Spindle article in March '05 Mopar Muscle [Re: autoxcuda]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24034
Loc: Oregon
Correct. Dick tweaked the boss for the upper ball joint a tad when he designed these arms so that they duplicate the static ball joint angle at some presumed ride height. (probably a tad lower than stock if I know the way that Dick thinks)

It doesn't make the geometry the same as stock since the taller knuckle alters that, it is designed to keep the ball joint in a narrower window of angle travel.



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#14135 - 01/21/05 12:17 AM Re: Spindle article in March '05 Mopar Muscle [Re: AndyF]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

Correct. Dick tweaked the boss for the upper ball joint a tad when he designed these arms so that they duplicate the static ball joint angle at some presumed ride height. (probably a tad lower than stock if I know the way that Dick thinks)

It doesn't make the geometry the same as stock since the taller knuckle alters that, it is designed to keep the ball joint in a narrower window of angle travel.





would i be correct in assuming that these 'new' arms would 'be off' a little bit on A body spindles?


Edited by dbdartman (01/25/05 10:10 AM)

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#14136 - 01/21/05 01:10 AM Re: Spindle article in March '05 Mopar Muscle [Re: Montclaire]
dulcich Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 931
If you want a drawing on a napkin, just have a look at your hero's original critique of the HPM story. If you are so curious, there is still near 10-degrees of travel IIRC in the BJ at max suspension jounce. I'm not sure what you are referring to about the homeless guy, unless you are offering your services.

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#14137 - 01/21/05 02:17 PM Re: Spindle article in March '05 Mopar Muscle [Re: dulcich]
71charger Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 1856
Loc: Frederick, MD
Ignore him. He's been championing that "Mopar Action" article for so long it must killing him to see hard numbers get published that show his hero at MA might just have been mistaken or, perhaps, caught up in a momentary and ill-considered wave of professional jealousy. Wasn't the much lauded, oft-quoted, "Mopar Action" article also published in Popular Hot Rodding or Hot Rod in the early 90s? If so was his warning about the taller spindles/knuckles in it then? Or was that added when it was published in Mopar Action?

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#14138 - 01/21/05 03:00 PM Re: Spindle article in March '05 Mopar Muscle [Re: 71charger]
Pauls69 Offline
super gas

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 1786
i read the bigblock.com article & it was very refreshing to read some actual tests vs old wives tales. although parts of the article were a little out of my depth, the point was it's ok to run later model disk brakes ("B") on our old mopes.

what's more dangerous, some nuances that most drivers won't notice, or someone tooling around with 4 wheel drum brakes having to make a panic stop?

good work bigblockdart & MM!

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#14139 - 01/21/05 04:23 PM Re: Spindle article in March '05 Mopar Muscle [Re: Pauls69]
Montclaire Offline
master

Registered: 02/18/03
Posts: 7540
Loc: Scranton, PA
Eberg's on vacation until the end of the month, I'm saving my opinion until I hear what he has to say on the subject.
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#14140 - 01/21/05 06:34 PM Re: Spindle article in March '05 Mopar Muscle [Re: Montclaire]
bbtrux Offline
super stock

Registered: 05/03/04
Posts: 900
Loc: ohio
Months later, is everyone tired of people consistently argueing a b.s. opinion just to feel right? I wont browse another thread about this again until a tall-spindle mopar has a horrible,fiery crash as a result of upper ball joint breakage.

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#14141 - 01/25/05 07:03 AM Re: Spindle article in March '05 Mopar Muscle [Re: Montclaire]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:


Let's just be honest here. What you meant to say was, "some homeless dude wrote it down on a napkin and gave it to Dulcich, who then just reprinted it verbatim in MM without reading it." I'm not saying it's incorrect information. I'm just saying that I doubt Dulcich concluded anything.




I said exactly what I meant to say. If you got issues use your own words and don't drag me into your problems.

You are one of the people I was referring to with the ideological axe to grind. Your information is less than useful and not based on any FACTS.

So go stroke your ego elsewhere and keep me out of it.

Thor

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