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edelbrock throttle shaft's #1395564
03/01/13 03:26 PM
03/01/13 03:26 PM
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montana
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pjc360 Offline OP
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I just discovered that the throttle shaft on the drivers side of my edelbrock performer was shot and leaking fuel and had a vaccum leak.
This performer i bought in april of 2011, so it wasnt even 2 years old yet. The vaccum leak from the throttle shaft was driving me insane!! I knew something wasnt right with my tune and could not find what was causing it for the longest time. I replaced intake manifold gasket carburetor gaskets. And the whole time it was the dam throttle shaft!
I decided to give edelbrock 1 more try because i have a ton of edelbrock bcarburetor parts, metering rods, jets, springs, accelerator pumps and pump nozzles and a few edelbrock carburetor tech books. So i just spent 375.00 bucks for a brand new edelbrock carburetor. This time i went with the 650cfm thunder series carb with electric choke. I put the jets and rods in the 650 from my 600 and and put the .033 accelerator pump nozzles from my 600 to 650.
Put the 650cfm on and set the idle air mixture screws to the highest vaccum reading. I still need to tune the secondary air-door, but this 650 seems to idle much better and the throttle response is alot smoother.
But the main thing i want to know is, how do i keep the thorttle shafts on this 650 in good shape? I dont want the throttle shafts on this 650 to start leaking. I'm sure running the lightest returtn spring i can find will help, but i also have my throttle valve cable for the transmission hooked up to the carburetor as well.
Also is there anybody in the buissness of fixing worn throttle shafts on the edelbrock carburetors? All of my edelbrock carburetor books say that once the throttle shaft is leaking the carburetor is ruined and its time to get a new one....

Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: pjc360] #1395565
03/01/13 06:13 PM
03/01/13 06:13 PM
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hysteric Offline
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Quote:

Also is there anybody in the buissness of fixing worn throttle shafts on the edelbrock carburetors? All of my edelbrock carburetor books say that once the throttle shaft is leaking the carburetor is ruined and its time to get a new one....






I have had Holley base plates bushed with teflon and would imagine someone who repairs carbs would be able to do your Edelbrock carb.

Hysteric

Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: hysteric] #1395566
03/01/13 06:33 PM
03/01/13 06:33 PM
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pjc360 Offline OP
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problem is i dont know anybody who does that kind of carburetor work?
I'm sure there is somebody out there who will do work on edelbrock carburetor throttle shafts, i just dont know anyone myself.
Guess i could start looking online.

Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: pjc360] #1395567
03/01/13 09:57 PM
03/01/13 09:57 PM
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Florida
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scratchnfotraction Offline
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check with member Scott Smith/HARMS AUTO = scott HARMS smith

he restores carbs and maybe he can do it, he does the stock mopar afb ect.

do a search here on the board for him and look at some of the rare carbs he has restored. looks like art work when done. IMHO.

maybe lube them every so often so the alum does not dry out and wear from a dry shaft.

I spray my shaft/linkage once a month with spary silicone lube, my carb was new in 01' still work great and it keeps the carb body from getting the white flaking corrosion build up from the open hood scoop.

are you sure you got a new one and not a reamufactured one from edelbroke?

Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1395568
03/01/13 10:54 PM
03/01/13 10:54 PM
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Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
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Hi,

Thanks for the kind words guys.

I'm probably not the right guy for that job, my main business is restoring older/original carbs. While I can certainly fix this Edelbrock, my price might be cost prohibitive for an aftermarket carb rebuild.

All that aside, I would highly doubt that the throttle shaft is worn out, that is unless in the rare case it has some sort of casting flaw or you've been using WAY too much return spring pressure. All throttle shafts have some slack in them, they are designed that way, they are not designed to be a tight vacuum/fuel leak sealed area. That said they shouldn't be exessively sloppy or noticabley leak fuel either.

Common reasons for your problem is either improperly adjusted floats or a bad needle and seat, todays gasoline has a lot of ethanol in it which can quickly damage the viton rubber which can ruin the needle/seat seal. If you think you have a vacuum leak I'd look elsewhere like port accessory hoses, intake to carb gaskets. intake manifold gaskets, etc.

Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1395569
03/02/13 02:53 PM
03/02/13 02:53 PM
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pjc360 Offline OP
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Mr. Smith, I know for a fact that the throttle shaft was causing a vaccum leak on my engine. And i sure hope i didnt get a remanufactured carb from edelbrock because i paid the sticker price for a brand new one... I bought it from summit and it was listed as new. I bought the 650 thunder series with electric choke.
One i bolted the 650 on i noticed a way smoother running engine instantly.
And i have looked at my 600 performer's throttle shaft and it is really loose, the throttle shaft on my new 650 is alot tighter then the shaft on my 2 year old 600. And i sprayed carb cleaner right at the throttle shaft of my 600 while it was still on my engine idling and the idle smoothed out alot, so i know it was causing a pretty big vaccum leak and i could see dried fuel puddles on my intake right below that throttle shaft....
I reas that running the throttle return spring in front of the carburetor helps the life of the throttle shafts, on my 600 performer i had my throttle return spring opulling the same direction as my throttle cable and my transmission cable, i bought a bracket yesterday to make the throttle return spring be in front of the carburetor, so hopefully that will help with the life of the throttle shaft on my new 650, i will buy some white lithium grease and spray the throttle shaft with it once a month as well. Anything else anyone can think of to help it last longer?
I know it's strange, but that is exactly what happened to my 600 performer, i have no doubht in mind that the throttle shaft was leaking fuel and causing a vaccum leak.

Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: pjc360] #1395570
03/02/13 02:59 PM
03/02/13 02:59 PM
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pjc360 Offline OP
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Oh and i forgot to add that on my 600 performer i had the floats set perfectly to edelbrocks reccomended settings, 7/16 and 1 inch drop on the floats on my 600 and i made sure the floats on my new 650 were the same way. Shoul i lower the float settings from what edelbrock reccomends them being at?
I decided to give the edelbrock carburetor one final chance, this 650 is the last edelbrock i will ever buy because if i start having problems with this 650 after the 1 year warranty is up then i will be buying a ether a quickfuel or a holley.
Only reason i decided to give the edelbrock carb one final try is because i have alot of parts for edelbrock carbs and a few different books and i know how to work on them.

Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: pjc360] #1395571
03/03/13 11:26 PM
03/03/13 11:26 PM
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Santa Cruz, California
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Lefty Offline
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I had the same problem a few years back. Nobody has a fix, not even Edelbrock.

Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: Lefty] #1395572
03/04/13 12:15 AM
03/04/13 12:15 AM
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Badham Co.
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Y3 70 BEE Offline
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Throttle shafts leak fuel because of flooding, not because of slop in shaft. Your seeping fuel out somewhere in the carb and it is coming out at the shaft.

Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: Y3 70 BEE] #1395573
03/04/13 10:23 AM
03/04/13 10:23 AM
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Florida
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scratchnfotraction Offline
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Quote:

Throttle shafts leak fuel because of flooding, not because of slop in shaft. Your seeping fuel out somewhere in the carb and it is coming out at the shaft.






I do agree also a heavy return spring can wear away at the cast alum body but should only become a vac leak.

if it is flooding or has a crack in the main body somewere is the only time gas should be seen at the outside at the shaft.

i would maybe see if edelbrock would warranty it as a defect in materails??

maybe they can refurbish it by replacing the main body only for you.

Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: pjc360] #1395574
03/04/13 01:58 PM
03/04/13 01:58 PM
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San Diego
formula S Offline
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Quote:

I reas that running the throttle return spring in front of the carburetor helps the life of the throttle shafts, on my 600 performer i had my throttle return spring opulling the same direction as my throttle cable and my transmission cable, i bought a bracket yesterday to make the throttle return spring be in front of the carburetor, so hopefully that will help with the life of the throttle shaft on my new 650, i will buy some white lithium grease and spray the throttle shaft with it once a month as well. Anything else anyone can think of to help it last longer?



The problem is that the transmission kickdown cable is using the throttle shaft as a pivot point and creating a load on the shaft, and the factory set up did not. The stock set up used a pin on top with kickdown linkage and a spring that pulled forward and didnt use the throttle shaft to change directions causing the load, To sum it up go to a stock configuration and your throttle shaft issues will disappear

Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1395575
03/05/13 03:14 PM
03/05/13 03:14 PM
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Not2farfromNashville, TN
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With the engine idling and a vac gauge in your face wiggle the shaft up and down, back and forth.

There is bronze bushings you can get. Anyone with a drill press can do the fix. I had a thread which I thought I had save the email to titled "Bush My Shaft." Search here doesn't go back that far.


"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1395576
03/05/13 04:45 PM
03/05/13 04:45 PM
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Columbus, GA
Michael Ecks Offline
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Quote:


I do agree also a heavy return spring can wear away at the cast alum body but should only become a vac leak.

if it is flooding or has a crack in the main body somewere is the only time gas should be seen at the outside at the shaft.

i would maybe see if edelbrock would warranty it as a defect in materails??

maybe they can refurbish it by replacing the main body only for you.




If the shaft is extra sloppy you could also be seeing a fuel "leak" from working the throttle without the car running. Working the accelerator pump back and forth with no engine vacuum would be spraying fuel down onto the throttle plates and shaft and could flow to the outside of the throttle shaft bore. Otherwise, it would have to be a crack or defect in the casting for fuel to leak from the bowl down into the throttle shaft bores.

A too heavy return spring on either side will contribute to wear. I've only seen a few throttle shafts themselves with wear, usually in cast iron base plates. More often it is the bores, and some carbs especially aftermarket have a very small area that the shaft rides in. I've seen some where this area could be measured in millimeters, no wonder they wear out. The fix is to remove the throttle plates from the shaft, pull it out, and drill out the base plate for a brass bushing with an ID the same as the OD of the shaft long enough for as much of the shaft to contact as possible, and them epoxy it in. Then reinstall the shaft, and out the throttle plate screws in with red loctite to keep them from falling out and down into the intake. It has to be drilled an epoxied just right or it will bind. I've done many a carb this way.


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Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: Michael Ecks] #1395577
03/05/13 05:37 PM
03/05/13 05:37 PM
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pjc360 Offline OP
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I forgot to mention that the 600 performer only leaks fuel out of the thriottle shaft while the engine is shut off, if i manually pump the throttle a few times then you see gas dripping out of the bottom of the throttle shaft.
And where do i get a stock configuration throttle valve cable set up? I have a 360 magnum in a 1991 dodge power ram 150 truck, And i am using a lokar throttle valve cable. I did some searching on the throttle valve cable when i first got this truck running and the lokar throttle valve cable was the easiest way for me to go, but it does pull from the carburetor right below my throttle cable.
Does anyone have any pictures of what a stock throttle valve configuration looks like? And would i be able to make it work with a carburetor? My transmission is an A-518 so it has to have a throttle valve cable.

Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: pjc360] #1395578
03/05/13 05:38 PM
03/05/13 05:38 PM
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pjc360 Offline OP
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Another thing i forgot to add is, i'm pretty sure the throttle shaft is the cause of the vaccum leak because with the engine running with the 600 performer on it when i spray carb cleaner at the throttle shaft the idle changes.

Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: Rug_Trucker] #1395579
03/05/13 06:06 PM
03/05/13 06:06 PM
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mickm Offline
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Quote:

"Bush My Shaft."






now THAT post could have a variety of meanings depending on the forum it's posted in!

Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: mickm] #1395580
03/06/13 10:43 AM
03/06/13 10:43 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

"Bush My Shaft."






now THAT post could have a variety of meanings depending on the forum it's posted in!




funny how word can have 2 meanings.

Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1395581
03/06/13 02:37 PM
03/06/13 02:37 PM
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Not2farfromNashville, TN
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

"Bush My Shaft."






now THAT post could have a variety of meanings depending on the forum it's posted in!




funny how word can have 2 meanings.


Itwas totally intentional. I thought I had the emails from the post reminders.


"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

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Re: edelbrock throttle shaft's [Re: Rug_Trucker] #1395582
03/08/13 07:06 PM
03/08/13 07:06 PM
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pjc360 Offline OP
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well for now i am running a softer throttle return spring and i am running it in front of the carburetor instead of behind it on my new 650 thunder series edelbrock so i sure hope the throttle shaft on this 650 last's alot longer then my 600 did.
I see now that edelbrock is putting made in usa emblims on there carbs my new 650 has one, hopefully that means it was made with better parts and by someone who accually gives a [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean].







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