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I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? #1395015
02/28/13 02:17 PM
02/28/13 02:17 PM
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West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart Offline OP
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I don't know how to pose this question but I'll try.
'70 Swinger installing a fresh 500hp +/- 440 automatic.
Radiator is 22", factory V8, Auto, A/C car and I'm being told that I MUST RUN a 26" aluminum radiator.
first off, the factory old school rad is brass and 2 row and it cooled just fine in Hellishness conditions (desert bumper to bumper with the a/c blowing) even after being neglected thru its life.
So you mean to tell me that a Modern made super efficient aluminum rad would have to be 26" 4 row with 2 big fans just to keep a no a/c big block from blowing it's cool???
Guy's I have a hard time believing this. BTU's are BTU's and I'm sure a modern 22" 2 row is MUCH more efficient than the old brass one.
Why would my 440 build so MUCH MORE heat than a small block running the a/c at full blast that the factory rad couldn't keep up with the load?
I plan on installing the 26" but I'm not wanting to cut the 22" rad support opening.
Am I asking for trouble or is the Big rad just a bit of an unnecessary overkill?
HELP!


Common sense, the least common of all the senses.
Mom.

For fear of ridicule, society stifles creativity.
Ricky Valdes
Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: Copper Dart] #1395016
02/28/13 02:24 PM
02/28/13 02:24 PM
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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First off, cut the opening to support a bigger rad...Its not sacrilidge, its just more air flow.

Two, when it comes to radiators, you get what you pay for. The guys that say, works fine for me, may not always work for you. Radiators range in price from $160-$1000, and there is a reason. Some cool better than others.

When shopping for one, call up the vendor and get an idea on how much HP its rated for...I went thru a few on my one car, and it can be a big pain in the a$$ to do it twice. Finally ended up with a Becool rated for lots of HP and have never had a problem since. Its also a $700 radiator...I recommend BeCool or Affco rads as some of the better ones. Call them, and find out more.

Last edited by Dragula; 02/28/13 02:26 PM.

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: Copper Dart] #1395017
02/28/13 03:16 PM
02/28/13 03:16 PM
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Niles , Ohio
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therocks Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
therocks  Offline
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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Niles , Ohio
I run a 22 factory rad in my 65 B body that pushes 500 horse from the 440.Its never been touched.It runs 180 all day even when its 90 out.My kid runs the same rad in his 62 300 413 and his runs the same temp.His was recored as it had a leak.Brass actually disperses heat better than aluminum.Seen too many guys with fancy hi buck rad with overheating problems.Ill stick with my factory rad and my stainless fan.Rocky


Chrysler Firepower
Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: Copper Dart] #1395018
02/28/13 03:17 PM
02/28/13 03:17 PM
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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DPelletier Offline
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There is alot more to cooling that a 26" wide radiator. Mopar guys get tunnel vision when it comes to rads because Mopar did the 22" and 26" wide thing but the truth is that you can get a 22" wide rad that easily has more capacity than a stock 26" wide radiator. This isn't even a topic of discussion for brand X and Y guys and despite what you might glean here, some of those guys are making big HP numbers too!


Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: Copper Dart] #1395019
02/28/13 03:34 PM
02/28/13 03:34 PM
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U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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One thing you are overlooking is how the heat load on the cooling system is created between the 2 configurations. The smallblock with A/C has much of the added heatload created by hotter than ambient air flowing thru the radiator after passing thru the A/C condenser.

The 500HP 440 adds the heatload to the cooling system itself by puting more heat into the water itself .

Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: Copper Dart] #1395020
02/28/13 04:13 PM
02/28/13 04:13 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Alumimum does not shed as much heat as copper and brass does That being said a good three or four row desert cooler type stock replacement copper and brass radiator would be my choice now that I have ran both types in cars with a lot more HP than 500 in the Mojave desert in the summer time


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1395021
02/28/13 04:17 PM
02/28/13 04:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
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Quote:

Alumimum does not shed as much heat as copper and brass does That being said a good three or four row desert cooler type stock replacement copper and brass radiator would be my choice now that I have ran both types in cars with a lot more HP than 500 in the Mojave desert in the summer time




That's what I was thinking, who told you it had to be aluminum?
Properly tuned I bet a 22" would be fine.

Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: Copper Dart] #1395022
02/28/13 04:20 PM
02/28/13 04:20 PM
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RSNOMO Offline
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26" OEM rad...3-core in front of a 440...

A/C water-pump;viscous drive, 7-blade fan;shroud...

Multiple runs in 90 degree+...Including the Woodward 'crawl'...

Zero temp issues...

Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: RSNOMO] #1395023
02/28/13 05:17 PM
02/28/13 05:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520
West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart Offline OP
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Copper Dart  Offline OP
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Thanks for the input!!
Called Summit Racing and I was told their Summit brand rads are rated to 400hp! I said "why bother building Radiators" Said theirs have 1" tubes and I would need at least 1.25" for aprox 500hp. !!!REALLY!!!

I agree that a 26" OEM should handle the 440 with ease.
Now to choose one for my ride, I don't have unlimited funds and I don't want to waist money on the wrong one.
Help if you can.

P.S.
As far as I know, aluminum is considerably more efficient at dissipating heat than copper and brass but less conductive. Don't confuse dissipation (of heat) with conductivity (of electricity).
Please correct me if i'm mistaken.


Common sense, the least common of all the senses.
Mom.

For fear of ridicule, society stifles creativity.
Ricky Valdes
Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: Copper Dart] #1395024
02/28/13 05:38 PM
02/28/13 05:38 PM
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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DPelletier Offline
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Quote:

P.S.
As far as I know, aluminum is considerably more efficient at dissipating heat than copper and brass but less conductive. Don't confuse dissipation (of heat) with conductivity (of electricity).
Please correct me if i'm mistaken.




OK,

http://www.caparadiator.com/aluminumvscopper.html

http://www.hotrodhotline.com/md/html/aluminum_vs_copper.php

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/283927-aluminum-vs-copper-radiators-discuss.html

http://www.ehow.com/about_5616155_aluminum-vs_-copper-radiators.html

and lastly;

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html


Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: DPelletier] #1395025
02/28/13 05:39 PM
02/28/13 05:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520
West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart Offline OP
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Copper Dart  Offline OP
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West Palm Beach, Florida
Quote:

There is alot more to cooling that a 26" wide radiator. Mopar guys get tunnel vision when it comes to rads because Mopar did the 22" and 26" wide thing but the truth is that you can get a 22" wide rad that easily has more capacity than a stock 26" wide radiator. This isn't even a topic of discussion for brand X and Y guys and despite what you might glean here, some of those guys are making big HP numbers too!


Dave



Please, do you have pictures and or part numbers for the 22" and why not use a 26" just for the peace of mind?
thanks


Common sense, the least common of all the senses.
Mom.

For fear of ridicule, society stifles creativity.
Ricky Valdes
Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: DPelletier] #1395026
02/28/13 05:45 PM
02/28/13 05:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,520
West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart Offline OP
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Copper Dart  Offline OP
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West Palm Beach, Florida
Quote:

Quote:

P.S.
As far as I know, aluminum is considerably more efficient at dissipating heat than copper and brass but less conductive. Don't confuse dissipation (of heat) with conductivity (of electricity).
Please correct me if i'm mistaken.




OK,

http://www.caparadiator.com/aluminumvscopper.html

http://www.hotrodhotline.com/md/html/aluminum_vs_copper.php

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/283927-aluminum-vs-copper-radiators-discuss.html

http://www.ehow.com/about_5616155_aluminum-vs_-copper-radiators.html

and lastly;

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html


Dave



WOW!! was I mistaken
THANKS!
great info Moparts


Common sense, the least common of all the senses.
Mom.

For fear of ridicule, society stifles creativity.
Ricky Valdes
Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: Copper Dart] #1395027
02/28/13 05:57 PM
02/28/13 05:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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DPelletier Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

There is alot more to cooling that a 26" wide radiator. Mopar guys get tunnel vision when it comes to rads because Mopar did the 22" and 26" wide thing but the truth is that you can get a 22" wide rad that easily has more capacity than a stock 26" wide radiator. This isn't even a topic of discussion for brand X and Y guys and despite what you might glean here, some of those guys are making big HP numbers too!


Dave



Please, do you have pictures and or part numbers for the 22" and why not use a 26" just for the peace of mind?
thanks




Not exactly, but what I did was use my stock top tank and I had it recored with a 3 row "hi performance dimpled core" based on my rad shops recommendation. IIRC, they had to split the bottom tank and widen it.

I haven't had much run time on the car, so I'll be honest and tell you that up front however, I have extensive knowledge of hydronic coils in my industrial HVAC background and there is many variables other than a coils width and height that determine performance.

As to why:
- 1) My car is a relatively desireable factory #'s matching 440-6 car and it came stock with a 22" radiator and corresponding opening. I wanted to use the stock radiator and had no desire whatsoever to cut the rad support.

2) I have a factory 22" radiator shroud that wouldn't have worked with a 26" rad.

3) it was far easier and less expensive to recore the rad for better performance than it would have been to swap over to a 26" rad.

I like my cars to be stock appearing, so an aftermarket aluminum racing radiator is the last thing I would consider.

Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: Copper Dart] #1395028
02/28/13 06:00 PM
02/28/13 06:00 PM
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dogdays Offline
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Well, whose car is it, anyhow?
If it's the radiator company's car, do what they say.
If it's your car do what you say.
Sometimes free advice is worth what you pay for it.
There is NEVER an advantage for a radiator manufacturer or seller to tell you to use a smaller one. Think about it - If for some reason it (the smaller one that they said was OK) doesn't work, it's their fault. And, if they tell you that you need a big one, and you buy the big one, it is more of a $ale.

Radiators are just heat exchangers, they're not magic. Engines are nothing special either. The fuel energy in - the work the engine does = the heat energy out. Some is transferred out of the engine by the block, some goes out the exhaust pipe, the rest goes out through the cooling system. So if your two engines have approximately the same thermal efficiency, each will move heat to the cooling system in proportion to the power output of the engine. If the power output is the same, the cooling load should be very close to the same.

Now if you are pulling 20,000 pounds up a hill as fast as you can, a 500 hp engine may put 2.5 times as much waste heat out the cooling system as a 200 hp engine. Keep in mind both vehicles are accelerating as hard as they can (maximum engine output).

R.

Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: Copper Dart] #1395029
02/28/13 06:14 PM
02/28/13 06:14 PM
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West Coast, USA
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I just go a 4 row 22" radiator from US Radiator for use with a 5.9 Magnum in a '68 A-body. I opted for the standard core design, but they have several other versions to get rid of even more heat. It's a nice radiator, looks factory and the price delivered was less than $550. Even without a shroud, it's almost too much radiator already.


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: jbc426] #1395030
02/28/13 06:51 PM
02/28/13 06:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
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West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart Offline OP
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Magnum engines have the inlet (bottom) on drivers side same as the RB? Stock appearing good quality new radiator? Tell me more.


Common sense, the least common of all the senses.
Mom.

For fear of ridicule, society stifles creativity.
Ricky Valdes
Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: Copper Dart] #1395031
02/28/13 09:35 PM
02/28/13 09:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline
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Lincoln Nebraska
3 or 4 row brass or alum. Anti cav plate behind the vanes. 8 blade pump. Check/reduce vane to pump housing clearance. Small WP pulley. shroud. MP thermal clutch fan with the blades ~2/3 into the shroud. water wetter. unshrouded front grill/sheet metal. need fast airflow and waterflow. EDIT forgot to say 22"

Last edited by RapidRobert; 02/28/13 10:13 PM.

live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: RapidRobert] #1395032
03/01/13 12:27 PM
03/01/13 12:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
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West Palm Beach, Florida
Copper Dart Offline OP
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Can someone verify the configuration of the magnum small block style rad to what is used for a big block?
Driver side inlet (lower) and passengers side outlet (upper)?
I still think my best bang for the buck is leaning towards the summit universal aluminum rad.


Common sense, the least common of all the senses.
Mom.

For fear of ridicule, society stifles creativity.
Ricky Valdes
Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: Copper Dart] #1395033
03/01/13 12:45 PM
03/01/13 12:45 PM
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Andrewh Offline
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passenger side lower, driver side upper. at least my 2000 5.9 has that.

so 70 and up BB rad would work. 69 and down would be opposite.

Re: I NEED A 26" 8 ROW RADIATOR!....... Really? [Re: Andrewh] #1395034
03/01/13 02:14 PM
03/01/13 02:14 PM
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poplar bluff mo.
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toplescuda Offline
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We had a stock 440 in the challenger car had a 26"rad it cooled ok but in the very hot summer in trafic it would push antfreeze out a tad it idle very much
we put in a non stock 426 hemi and swaped out the stock rad for a 3row champion 26" had to get rid of the stock fan setup so its got 2 10" ele fans it has no problem cooling the hemi at all


1970 barracuda convert. 1 of 59
1970 pro street A.A.R. clone (panther pink)
1971 charger
2015 hellcat challenger. Redline red
2014 quad cab 4x4 ram 8 speed hemi
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