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360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? #1393683
02/26/13 08:18 AM
02/26/13 08:18 AM
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the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
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All things (possible) being equal anyways...

Lets say 3100lb car, 4 speed, longtube headers and a VERY good exhaust system.

My original plan was a 67 383-2bbl longblock (not rebuilt), so lower "9.2:1" CR, Holley Street Dominator, Holly 750-800DP, MSD dist, no accessories, etc. Whiplash cam.

The option now is a mid-90's (or best year) 5.9L Magnum (unrebuilt), RPM Air-Gap, proper-sized Holley DP, elect. ign, no accessories, Whiplash magnum cam (to keep the comparison equal-ish).

Will the roller cam/better rockers and more modern heads make up for the 23cid and bigger everything? I'm sure it will kill the 383 in mileage. How about power?

I'm just talking about power here... bench racing... i realize the car would be generally faster (straight, top end, cornering) with the Magnum due to the weight difference.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393684
02/26/13 09:11 AM
02/26/13 09:11 AM
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Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, Can...
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I was planning a 383 for my long-term project Challenger but with the 360 magnum, 400 hp is an easy goal to reach so basically both engines would be on par. I'm going with either a 360 magnum or a 408 with the expectation the car will handle better as opposed to having a 383.

Mike.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393685
02/26/13 09:14 AM
02/26/13 09:14 AM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
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the bigger cubic inches will make more power.


but, how much more hp? I've seen some 360s with some very impressive heads that can make big hp numbers.

and at how much of a weight penalty? the big block will be heavier than the 360, so even if it makes more Hp, may not actually be faster.


but, generally, dollar for dollar, the bigger motor will win


**Photobucket sucks**
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 70Cuda383] #1393686
02/26/13 10:10 AM
02/26/13 10:10 AM
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Quote:

the bigger cubic inches will make more power.


but, how much more hp? I've seen some 360s with some very impressive heads that can make big hp numbers.

and at how much of a weight penalty? the big block will be heavier than the 360, so even if it makes more Hp, may not actually be faster.


but, generally, dollar for dollar, the bigger motor will win




You can put B1's on a 383, yet you can put some serious head on a Magnum too...

I'm talking at stockish levels here though. Basic mild bolt-ons at most... Whiplash cam, RPM/SD intake, optimal carb, headers, exhaust, hot ignition... etc. STOCK compression on either engine though.

My underlying point was is the newer technology (roller and modern heads) enough to offset the 23 cubes?

As a part two... lets go as far as some entry level porting on either head. How about then?

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: moparmike1] #1393687
02/26/13 10:12 AM
02/26/13 10:12 AM
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Quote:

I was planning a 383 for my long-term project Challenger but with the 360 magnum, 400 hp is an easy goal to reach so basically both engines would be on par. I'm going with either a 360 magnum or a 408 with the expectation the car will handle better as opposed to having a 383.

Mike.




Yeah... i LOVE the idea ov a stock-stroke low-deck big block... and i've been collecting parts for mine for years... but all this Magnum talk and the awesome $1.30 price ov gas has me really thinking ov selling my 383 and pile o parts... I've already sold my B1BS's...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393688
02/26/13 10:16 AM
02/26/13 10:16 AM
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maryland
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Quote:

Quote:

the bigger cubic inches will make more power.


but, how much more hp? I've seen some 360s with some very impressive heads that can make big hp numbers.

and at how much of a weight penalty? the big block will be heavier than the 360, so even if it makes more Hp, may not actually be faster.


but, generally, dollar for dollar, the bigger motor will win




You can put B1's on a 383, yet you can put some serious head on a Magnum too...

I'm talking at stockish levels here though. Basic mild bolt-ons at most... Whiplash cam, RPM/SD intake, optimal carb, headers, exhaust, hot ignition... etc. STOCK compression on either engine though.

My underlying point was is the newer technology (roller and modern heads) enough to offset the 23 cubes?

As a part two... lets go as far as some entry level porting on either head. How about then?




newer isnt neccesarily better... actually some of those LA magnum heads like to crack exhaust valve seats in those "modern" heads.

a steel crank 383 at 13:1 on E85 with eddy heads, E85 quickfuel carb and a .528 mopar cam would seriously blow that 360 out of the water.

you would need to do some serious work to the magnum to get at the same level, costing way more and even then it would not be as long-lived.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 74yellowduster] #1393689
02/26/13 10:24 AM
02/26/13 10:24 AM
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Maud,Tx
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I'd go with the big block. Even if they were equal at the track. I like the big block's water pump and timing cover setup, along with the oil pump, distributor drive shaft, not to mention you can actually see the distributor without laying across the motor.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 74yellowduster] #1393690
02/26/13 10:37 AM
02/26/13 10:37 AM
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Quote:


newer isnt neccesarily better... actually some of those LA magnum heads like to crack exhaust valve seats in those "modern" heads.

a steel crank 383 at 13:1 on E85 with eddy heads, E85 quickfuel carb and a .528 mopar cam would seriously blow that 360 out of the water.

you would need to do some serious work to the magnum to get at the same level, costing way more and even then it would not be as long-lived.




13:1...??? Aluminum heads...??? Dude... you just built me a $5000 engine. A running 383 or 360 Magnum (that doesn't need a rebuild) will run me less than $500. I can sell my 383 to buy a 360 Mag, so essentially free for me. NOBODY is building an engine here.

STOCK 383 + bolt ons vs STOCK 360Mag + (same) bolt ons.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393691
02/26/13 11:18 AM
02/26/13 11:18 AM
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maryland
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ok for cheap then, just get the solid .528 cam for the 383 & e85 quickfuel carb have the heads milled to get you to 12:1 or so (iron heads, alum could go to 13:1) run a 180 deg thermostat

you will probably want to run an elec fuel pump with return style regulator/bypass if you go E85

on straight pump gas, ok yeah the 360magnum might have an edge. just watch when you buy one though make sure the exhaust valve seats are not all cracked up. if it came out of a pickup, rode real hard they probably are.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393692
02/26/13 11:21 AM
02/26/13 11:21 AM
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connecticut
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keep the trans in mind...all things equal unless this is a hypothetical situation if you have a big block and are thinking of changing to a small block...everythings different...that can get expensive. as for power id go with the 383 they make gobs of torque, rev to the moon, you could find a set of closed chamber heads put bigger valves in them some mild porting and make a low budget screamer. I had a 440 with 67 lopo closed chamber with a valve job and bigger valves, stock short block a used fireball cam and iron sixpack and it put 400hp and 550 ft lbs to the pavement with a real conservative tune had 2500 into the whole deal with the sixpack 1200 into the engine and most of that was the headwork


"Are you gonna bark all day lil doggy? Or are you gonna bite?"


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Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 74yellowduster] #1393693
02/26/13 12:10 PM
02/26/13 12:10 PM
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Quote:

ok for cheap then, just get the solid .528 cam for the 383 & e85 quickfuel carb have the heads milled to get you to 12:1 or so (iron heads, alum could go to 13:1) run a 180 deg thermostat






Do you have any idea hom much would have to come off a set of heads to get his low compression 383 , he's lucky if it's 8:1 on its RATED 9.2 compression.

I just ran some numbers , the pistons in his engine are probably .080 in the hole , if this is the case he would have to have a head with a 46cc chamber to get 12.0 in a 383.

If his heads are 84cc he would have to cut .190 off them to get the chamber down to 46 cc.

It's a nice thought but not something doable with his low budget build with parts he has laying around .

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: JohnRR] #1393694
02/26/13 12:44 PM
02/26/13 12:44 PM
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God's Country Maryland
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With the bore of a 383 (4.25) you can go with a lot bigger valves than you'd ever get into a 360's bore (4.00).


I love the smell of Deer guts in the morning, it smells like... VICTORY!
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: JohnRR] #1393695
02/26/13 12:50 PM
02/26/13 12:50 PM
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maryland
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Quote:

Quote:

ok for cheap then, just get the solid .528 cam for the 383 & e85 quickfuel carb have the heads milled to get you to 12:1 or so (iron heads, alum could go to 13:1) run a 180 deg thermostat






Do you have any idea hom much would have to come off a set of heads to get his low compression 383 , he's lucky if it's 8:1 on its RATED 9.2 compression.

I just ran some numbers , the pistons in his engine are probably .080 in the hole , if this is the case he would have to have a head with a 46cc chamber to get 12.0 in a 383.

If his heads are 84cc he would have to cut .190 off them to get the chamber down to 46 cc.

It's a nice thought but not something doable with his low budget build with parts he has laying around .




there were different 383's some 10:1 some 9.5:1 some 8.5:1 etc.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393696
02/26/13 01:02 PM
02/26/13 01:02 PM
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Morristown Tn.
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I don't know about the Magnums, but I would wind a 68 C body with a 383 2b to 65 mph in first gear, on a regular bases, they are almost indestructible.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 74yellowduster] #1393697
02/26/13 02:03 PM
02/26/13 02:03 PM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

ok for cheap then, just get the solid .528 cam for the 383 & e85 quickfuel carb have the heads milled to get you to 12:1 or so (iron heads, alum could go to 13:1) run a 180 deg thermostat






Do you have any idea hom much would have to come off a set of heads to get his low compression 383 , he's lucky if it's 8:1 on its RATED 9.2 compression.

I just ran some numbers , the pistons in his engine are probably .080 in the hole , if this is the case he would have to have a head with a 46cc chamber to get 12.0 in a 383.

If his heads are 84cc he would have to cut .190 off them to get the chamber down to 46 cc.

It's a nice thought but not something doable with his low budget build with parts he has laying around .




there were different 383's some 10:1 some 9.5:1 some 8.5:1 etc.




you're talking advertised numbers I take it? what 383 was ACTUALLY a 10:1 compression?


the magnum will be about 9.0 compression with the stock heads and stock head gaskets. a .030 cut on the heads and a felpro 1008 gasket gets you 9.5 compression with the dished factory pistons. I actually measured mine while I had it open and I'm at 9.5 compression, assuming things like a 58cc head was actually 62 before being cut, and as accurately as I could measure the edge of the dished piston in relation to the deck at TDC.

anyway, budget minded, I still give the nod to the 383. a good intake, carb, cam, headers, and you have a 400-425hp motor on 89 octane gas. the magnum will cost a bit more money to get over 400 hp out of it.


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Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393698
02/26/13 03:18 PM
02/26/13 03:18 PM
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Irving, TX
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Which transmission and converter do you have on hand? If it's B/RB stuff you'd be money ahead to stick with the 383.

A mild 383 and 5.9 Magnum are going to be very close in power. For some reason the 5.9 has always been a gas hog.


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
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Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 70Cuda383] #1393699
02/26/13 03:18 PM
02/26/13 03:18 PM
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Quote:

anyway, budget minded, I still give the nod to the 383. a good intake, carb, cam, headers, and you have a 400-425hp motor on 89 octane gas. the magnum will cost a bit more money to get over 400 hp out of it.






...and I think the weight difference is overrated; once you put on headers and an aluminum intake, the 383 isn't that heavy. A mini starter, alum water pump, etc. and it gets lighter yet. You could always go with a set of alum eddy's or stealths in the future too. I would bet that a 383 with all the alum goodies is as light as a stock LA setup.


Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 74yellowduster] #1393700
02/26/13 04:36 PM
02/26/13 04:36 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

ok for cheap then, just get the solid .528 cam for the 383 & e85 quickfuel carb have the heads milled to get you to 12:1 or so (iron heads, alum could go to 13:1) run a 180 deg thermostat






Do you have any idea hom much would have to come off a set of heads to get his low compression 383 , he's lucky if it's 8:1 on its RATED 9.2 compression.

I just ran some numbers , the pistons in his engine are probably .080 in the hole , if this is the case he would have to have a head with a 46cc chamber to get 12.0 in a 383.

If his heads are 84cc he would have to cut .190 off them to get the chamber down to 46 cc.

It's a nice thought but not something doable with his low budget build with parts he has laying around .




there were different 383's some 10:1 some 9.5:1 some 8.5:1 etc.




And Chrysler OVERSTATED compression especially on 383's.

If you read the initial post he has a 67 383 and he says it's rated at 9.2, actual is closer to 8.2. I have a couple of 69 383 335HP road runner/superbee engines , it's rated at 10.0 , actual is more like 9.3 .

it's hard to build 12.0 in a 4.25 bore and a 3.375 stroke.

I have a 383 that is about 12.4 compression ... to get it , I had to increase the stroke to 3.9 , cut the heads down to 84 cc from 90 and put a 10 cc dome on the piston.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 70Cuda383] #1393701
02/26/13 04:38 PM
02/26/13 04:38 PM
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Quote:


you're talking advertised numbers I take it? what 383 was ACTUALLY a 10:1 compression?





There isn't one as they rolled out the door of a Chrysler factory, the 335HP 383 in 68/69 is as close as they get with 9.3 actual.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: DPelletier] #1393702
02/26/13 04:39 PM
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Someplace you aren't
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Do you already have the 383? Not going to recoup much if you dump it for a 5.9.


I want my fair share
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: feets] #1393703
02/26/13 05:45 PM
02/26/13 05:45 PM
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Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:

Which transmission and converter do you have on hand? If it's B/RB stuff you'd be money ahead to stick with the 383.

A mild 383 and 5.9 Magnum are going to be very close in power. For some reason the 5.9 has always been a gas hog.




yeah, I'd say stock plus cam headers & intake for both, they'll both make essentially the same power...the 360 might be a touch better on gas


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Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: JohnRR] #1393704
02/26/13 05:46 PM
02/26/13 05:46 PM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
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Quote:

Quote:


you're talking advertised numbers I take it? what 383 was ACTUALLY a 10:1 compression?





There isn't one as they rolled out the door of a Chrysler factory, the 335HP 383 in 68/69 is as close as they get with 9.3 actual.





That's kinda what I thought.


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Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 70Cuda383] #1393705
02/26/13 08:59 PM
02/26/13 08:59 PM
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Chilliwack B.C. Canada
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Both engines can be made to run, I like the combustion chambers and roller cam in the magnum, I like the big bore and ease of working on the 383. I would base my choice on transmission needs. If you want something with more than 3 gears auto or 4 gears manual it will be much cheaper and easier to go the Magnum route with the factory available overdrives for it.

Sheldon

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393706
02/27/13 12:19 AM
02/27/13 12:19 AM
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Brookeville, Md
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383. $ for $ 383. Don't let the SB guys try and fool you.


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Coming soon!!!!
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1393707
02/27/13 01:39 AM
02/27/13 01:39 AM
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Manitoba, Canada
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Talking unrebuilt short blocks here, the 360 magnum wins hands down. A 40 year old cast ringed 383 that lived under a carb all its life versus a moly ringed 360 that lived under a clean running efi system. If you've ever taken apart a high miles carb engine versus a high miles efi engine, it's a night and day difference. The 360 will have better ring seal, cleaner pistons and valves and be easier to get a decent compression ratio out of on a budget. As much as I like big blocks, you almost can't find a good running good condition unrebuilt stocker anymore.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: JohnRR] #1393708
02/27/13 01:54 AM
02/27/13 01:54 AM
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Baltimore/Denver
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Quote:


I have a 383 that is about 12.4 compression ... to get it , I had to increase the stroke to 3.9 , cut the heads down to 84 cc from 90 and put a 10 cc dome on the piston.




Damn, great minds think alike. Those are the exact specs on my rotating assembly.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 64Post] #1393709
02/27/13 02:44 AM
02/27/13 02:44 AM
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CT
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I will say 383 because I am a big block guy. You can probably score used bolt on parts for it cheaper too. I see low deck aluminum intakes for 75 bucks all the time. Cheap summit cams, used cams, and cams people didn't decide to run.

I've never owned a 383 myself. I've been really unimpressed by some, and really really impressed by others. Make sure its got gear and its tuned well and it'll scream.

And you'll have to deal with selling the 383.


Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: GTX MATT] #1393710
02/27/13 06:47 AM
02/27/13 06:47 AM
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Kansas
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Kansas
360 magnum will be the more reliable engine compared to the 383 especially since neither has been rebuilt. You might do a compression test to get an idea of the shape of your 383. All things being equal the 383 will make more power. Not to mention everything on a big block is easy to work on vs the small block. I did a 318 magnum into a 70 coronet, best thing I've ever done for that car. The magnum engines do make an excellent daily driver.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 74yellowduster] #1393711
02/27/13 07:09 AM
02/27/13 07:09 AM
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the frozen wastes...
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Quote:

ok for cheap then, just get the solid .528 cam for the 383 & e85 quickfuel carb have the heads milled to get you to 12:1 or so (iron heads, alum could go to 13:1) run a 180 deg thermostat

you will probably want to run an elec fuel pump with return style regulator/bypass if you go E85

on straight pump gas, ok yeah the 360magnum might have an edge. just watch when you buy one though make sure the exhaust valve seats are not all cracked up. if it came out of a pickup, rode real hard they probably are.




We dont have E85 here anyways... so moot point.

I was looking for one from a van preferably. Really, from what i've seen there are enough to choose from around here i can probably find a nice one without too much effort.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: pnypwr] #1393712
02/27/13 07:13 AM
02/27/13 07:13 AM
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the frozen wastes...
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Quote:

keep the trans in mind...all things equal unless this is a hypothetical situation if you have a big block and are thinking of changing to a small block...everythings different...that can get expensive. as for power id go with the 383 they make gobs of torque, rev to the moon, you could find a set of closed chamber heads put bigger valves in them some mild porting and make a low budget screamer. I had a 440 with 67 lopo closed chamber with a valve job and bigger valves, stock short block a used fireball cam and iron sixpack and it put 400hp and 550 ft lbs to the pavement with a real conservative tune had 2500 into the whole deal with the sixpack 1200 into the engine and most of that was the headwork




All i'd be missing is mounts (cheap) and a SB bellhousing (just sold one, dammit!). I think the only real expense would be a set ov GOOD headers for a small block... but for now it'd be manifolds or shorties if need be.

Oh, and my 383 already has 516's, and i have another really nice set ov 516's kicking around as well. Was thinking down the road a bit having them shaved pretty hard and doing some minor porting with some 1.81" exhaust valves.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: GODSCOUNTRY340] #1393713
02/27/13 07:15 AM
02/27/13 07:15 AM
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With the bore of a 383 (4.25) you can go with a lot bigger valves than you'd ever get into a 360's bore (4.00).




Yes, but also keep in mind the 360 Magnum crate with its 380HP made more HP than the 360 LA crate with 360HP it replaced... and it has smaller valves too. This is where old school meets new school, and kinda the point in this whole thread... does the modern technology make up for good ol' cubes and big everything.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 70Cuda383] #1393714
02/27/13 07:30 AM
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ok for cheap then, just get the solid .528 cam for the 383 & e85 quickfuel carb have the heads milled to get you to 12:1 or so (iron heads, alum could go to 13:1) run a 180 deg thermostat






Do you have any idea hom much would have to come off a set of heads to get his low compression 383 , he's lucky if it's 8:1 on its RATED 9.2 compression.

I just ran some numbers , the pistons in his engine are probably .080 in the hole , if this is the case he would have to have a head with a 46cc chamber to get 12.0 in a 383.

If his heads are 84cc he would have to cut .190 off them to get the chamber down to 46 cc.

It's a nice thought but not something doable with his low budget build with parts he has laying around .




there were different 383's some 10:1 some 9.5:1 some 8.5:1 etc.




you're talking advertised numbers I take it? what 383 was ACTUALLY a 10:1 compression?


the magnum will be about 9.0 compression with the stock heads and stock head gaskets. a .030 cut on the heads and a felpro 1008 gasket gets you 9.5 compression with the dished factory pistons. I actually measured mine while I had it open and I'm at 9.5 compression, assuming things like a 58cc head was actually 62 before being cut, and as accurately as I could measure the edge of the dished piston in relation to the deck at TDC.

anyway, budget minded, I still give the nod to the 383. a good intake, carb, cam, headers, and you have a 400-425hp motor on 89 octane gas. the magnum will cost a bit more money to get over 400 hp out of it.




Yeah... i looked and looked and looked for a 68-69 383 4bbl-ONLY engine to get that extra compression, but i found nothing but cores and junk. Try to find a nice running 383 Magnum or 4bbl engine that doesn't need a rebuild... I actually found one last year... but a flipper got to it 10 minutes before i did.

The minor mods you mention on the Magnum are something else i'm considering, down the line... so its good to know i could actually make some compression without rebuilding the engine.

In my shop i have:

- a good running 67 383 2bbl long block
- Holley Street Dominator intake (ported)
- Holley 800DP and a Holley 670 Street Dominator carb
- Hedman shorty BB headers
- deeper sump oil pan, windage tray
- aluminum water pump and housing
- MSD pro billet distributor
- a nice set o 516 heads and some new 1.81" exhaust valves to put together and port (later)
- cool valve covers
- piles ov the little stuff, all for lowdeck big blocks
- enough 3" mandrel pipe to dual-exhaust a school bus.

I have only to buy the Hughes Whiplash cam (that i am 100% sold on) and i'll have a pretty killer little combo i think.

Hell... i even have a Weiand 2x4 tunnel ram in the pile too... bought when the plan was different...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: feets] #1393715
02/27/13 07:35 AM
02/27/13 07:35 AM
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Which transmission and converter do you have on hand? If it's B/RB stuff you'd be money ahead to stick with the 383.




4-speed from a 70 340 Cuda. I have every big block piece needed save the actual clutch disc (have that too, but the shipper sent me an 18-spline one instead).

Quote:

A mild 383 and 5.9 Magnum are going to be very close in power. For some reason the 5.9 has always been a gas hog.




Yeah, so the story goes, but i've always wondered if that was because the trucks they came in were underpowered and flogged all the more for it. EVERY time i see/hear a V8 Ram go by its being flogged. My friend used to get single-digit MPG with his 5.9L 4x4 Ram.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: DPelletier] #1393716
02/27/13 07:39 AM
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anyway, budget minded, I still give the nod to the 383. a good intake, carb, cam, headers, and you have a 400-425hp motor on 89 octane gas. the magnum will cost a bit more money to get over 400 hp out of it.






...and I think the weight difference is overrated; once you put on headers and an aluminum intake, the 383 isn't that heavy. A mini starter, alum water pump, etc. and it gets lighter yet. You could always go with a set of alum eddy's or stealths in the future too. I would bet that a 383 with all the alum goodies is as light as a stock LA setup.


Dave




Yeah... i have all that stuff, but wont be getting aluminum heads again, ever. Not unless BC ceases being the most expensive place on Earth anytime soon.... I'd never buy Edelbrock or Stealth heads though... i'd scour the Earth for a set ov used Stage 6's or B1BS's first.

As for the weight, thats true, but at the same time... i can start buying aluminum parts for the small block too... I'll already have the manifold.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: RUNCHARGER] #1393717
02/27/13 07:45 AM
02/27/13 07:45 AM
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Both engines can be made to run, I like the combustion chambers and roller cam in the magnum, I like the big bore and ease of working on the 383. I would base my choice on transmission needs. If you want something with more than 3 gears auto or 4 gears manual it will be much cheaper and easier to go the Magnum route with the factory available overdrives for it.

Sheldon




Yeah... i've always been a big block guy too. I cant think ov a simpler engine to own or at least work on. Never been into the small blocks at all.

But i also like the modern efficiency... and if both engines make 380HP but the Magnum does it on less gas i'll go that way and not look back. I dont need more than 400HP right now... i can win plenty ov races with that. I also like the SOUND ov the Magnums... they have a definitive howl that older engines just dont have. They sound like a new engine. I really like that.

Confused about the OD thing though... i thought it was just as expensive to put a 5-speed behind a small block than a big block? I dont want a NV truck tranny. Am i forgetting something? An OD stick IS part ov the long range plan.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1393718
02/27/13 07:47 AM
02/27/13 07:47 AM
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Talking unrebuilt short blocks here, the 360 magnum wins hands down. A 40 year old cast ringed 383 that lived under a carb all its life versus a moly ringed 360 that lived under a clean running efi system. If you've ever taken apart a high miles carb engine versus a high miles efi engine, it's a night and day difference. The 360 will have better ring seal, cleaner pistons and valves and be easier to get a decent compression ratio out of on a budget. As much as I like big blocks, you almost can't find a good running good condition unrebuilt stocker anymore.




I DO have a nice 383... got lucky. But now you're making the new stuff sound even better to me. Didn't know all that stuff. Hmmm...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393719
02/27/13 08:09 AM
02/27/13 08:09 AM
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I'd go with the magnum- The heads will flow better, lighter package and roller cam. Pop a used roller cam in off the Dak boards and roll with it.

The 5.9 in my Duster hauls butt.

If you are going to start tossing new heads and stuff at either the picture gets more murky. I'd still go with the SB unless you are going to stroke and then I'd run the 383 (496 yo!)

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393720
02/27/13 10:34 AM
02/27/13 10:34 AM
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Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:

Quote:

Both engines can be made to run, I like the combustion chambers and roller cam in the magnum, I like the big bore and ease of working on the 383. I would base my choice on transmission needs. If you want something with more than 3 gears auto or 4 gears manual it will be much cheaper and easier to go the Magnum route with the factory available overdrives for it.

Sheldon




Yeah... i've always been a big block guy too. I cant think ov a simpler engine to own or at least work on. Never been into the small blocks at all.

But i also like the modern efficiency... and if both engines make 380HP but the Magnum does it on less gas i'll go that way and not look back. I dont need more than 400HP right now... i can win plenty ov races with that. I also like the SOUND ov the Magnums... they have a definitive howl that older engines just dont have. They sound like a new engine. I really like that.

Confused about the OD thing though... i thought it was just as expensive to put a 5-speed behind a small block than a big block? I dont want a NV truck tranny. Am i forgetting something? An OD stick IS part ov the long range plan.




well, a manual tranny, get a 3.9L dakota AX15 bellhousing, and I believe a supra R154 tranny bolts up to it, if you're looking to low-buck it...


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Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: patrick] #1393721
02/27/13 12:19 PM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
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I know you said you don't want the NV trans...mine held just fine with at least 400 ft lbs of torque at the crank...with street tires. I know a guy who's got his reg cab dakota into the 13s on slicks with a supercharged 318 and an NV3500.

if you keep your build mild, the 3500 will work ok.


or, you can source the Supra trans, those are much beefier than the NV3500, and some guys have put them behind their small blocks with the AX-15 bell housing.

but in general, yea, if you go with a TKO or a T-56, it's the same cost regardless of if you go small block or big block, the only part that's different between the 2 is the bell housing and possibly the flywheel depending on how your engine is balanced.


**Photobucket sucks**
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 70Cuda383] #1393722
02/27/13 12:38 PM
02/27/13 12:38 PM
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Chilliwack B.C. Canada
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You also need to find an oil pan for the little engine. With all the stuff you have I would absolutely run the 383. If you were starting from scratch it would be different. The 383 even looks better.

Sheldon

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: RUNCHARGER] #1393723
02/27/13 01:54 PM
02/27/13 01:54 PM
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Mt.Gilead, Ohio
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Is it going in that cool Challenger? If so, my answer would be simple. 383. I've always thought e-bodies were too hefty to be small block powered. Obviously that isn't a blanket statement. But if you have the 383 already it's a lot less legwork. Unless you enjoy the chase, as well.
I like 383's and have had good luck with them. Haven't done the Magnum in a car, but the 360 in my truck didn't have the low end grunt my 400 (not a 383, but a low deck ) had. Same gear, roughly the same tire size.
That probably helps in no way. But just my


1969 Dart GTS 340
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Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: gdonovan] #1393724
02/27/13 03:25 PM
02/27/13 03:25 PM
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Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:

I'd go with the magnum- The heads will flow better




Nope;

360 Magnum head: 202cfm at .500" lift
194cfm at .600" lift

516 BB head: 209.9cfm at .500" lift
219.5cfm at .600" lift


http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/62.html

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0804_small_block_mopar_engine/viewall.html

Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: DPelletier] #1393725
02/27/13 03:34 PM
02/27/13 03:34 PM
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NotRussia
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I'd say neither.

Find a 400 block and a 440 crank, and the necessary pistons for it and be done with it.

But if I HAD to do either...383. More torque is always better. Extra weight is negligible.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: OhioMopar] #1393726
02/27/13 03:50 PM
02/27/13 03:50 PM
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Quote:

I've always thought e-bodies were too hefty to be small block powered.




Our '72 Challenger weighs the same as our '73 Duster. With much worse weight distribution.

I like the room in the engine bay with a small block powered Challenger. It's luxury compared to that same small block in an A-body.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393727
02/28/13 03:12 AM
02/28/13 03:12 AM
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Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:

Quote:

Talking unrebuilt short blocks here, the 360 magnum wins hands down. A 40 year old cast ringed 383 that lived under a carb all its life versus a moly ringed 360 that lived under a clean running efi system. If you've ever taken apart a high miles carb engine versus a high miles efi engine, it's a night and day difference. The 360 will have better ring seal, cleaner pistons and valves and be easier to get a decent compression ratio out of on a budget. As much as I like big blocks, you almost can't find a good running good condition unrebuilt stocker anymore.




I DO have a nice 383... got lucky. But now you're making the new stuff sound even better to me. Didn't know all that stuff. Hmmm...




Just HOW good is that 383? I built a 440 before, an unrebuilt engine, I threw a new set of rings in it, 440source heads, lunati cam, headers. It ran great during normal driving but just didn't make the upper (4000+) rpm power it should have. Upper rpm is where sub-par ring seal really shows itself. Since you already have the 383 and all those parts it's really hard to say sell but we don't know the true condition of the engine. Did you ever pull a head off it? If so, how much ridge was there?

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: patrick] #1393728
02/28/13 07:53 AM
02/28/13 07:53 AM
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Both engines can be made to run, I like the combustion chambers and roller cam in the magnum, I like the big bore and ease of working on the 383. I would base my choice on transmission needs. If you want something with more than 3 gears auto or 4 gears manual it will be much cheaper and easier to go the Magnum route with the factory available overdrives for it.

Sheldon




Yeah... i've always been a big block guy too. I cant think ov a simpler engine to own or at least work on. Never been into the small blocks at all.

But i also like the modern efficiency... and if both engines make 380HP but the Magnum does it on less gas i'll go that way and not look back. I dont need more than 400HP right now... i can win plenty ov races with that. I also like the SOUND ov the Magnums... they have a definitive howl that older engines just dont have. They sound like a new engine. I really like that.

Confused about the OD thing though... i thought it was just as expensive to put a 5-speed behind a small block than a big block? I dont want a NV truck tranny. Am i forgetting something? An OD stick IS part ov the long range plan.




well, a manual tranny, get a 3.9L dakota AX15 bellhousing, and I believe a supra R154 tranny bolts up to it, if you're looking to low-buck it...




Yeah i got all excited about that, until i read that entire 498 page thread on that swap here, and the take home points were that its not as simple as its made out to be. If i was better equipped and had a nice big shop to tie the car up in while i sorted it sure, but in my rainy driveway... i'm looking for something that can fire in a day or two.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 70Cuda383] #1393729
02/28/13 07:58 AM
02/28/13 07:58 AM
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I know you said you don't want the NV trans...mine held just fine with at least 400 ft lbs of torque at the crank...with street tires. I know a guy who's got his reg cab dakota into the 13s on slicks with a supercharged 318 and an NV3500.

if you keep your build mild, the 3500 will work ok.


or, you can source the Supra trans, those are much beefier than the NV3500, and some guys have put them behind their small blocks with the AX-15 bell housing.

but in general, yea, if you go with a TKO or a T-56, it's the same cost regardless of if you go small block or big block, the only part that's different between the 2 is the bell housing and possibly the flywheel depending on how your engine is balanced.




Dont get me wrong, after reading about the NV stuff i got all excited too... the gear spreads alone sold me... but again, not a simple bolt-in, and worse even than the Supra route. I'll hack my floors for a T-56 when the time comes (no time soon...), but not for a NV unit. Its not the power capacity... i doubt i'll exceed 400HP in any incarnation... this is a daily driver to have fun with, not a street incinerator. The NV sounds like a nightmare to fit and the shifter will be off as well.


SOOOO... unless i have the space and time to mess with the Supra install... i guess the OD stick is still gonna cost me dearly. Damn.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: RUNCHARGER] #1393730
02/28/13 08:04 AM
02/28/13 08:04 AM
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You also need to find an oil pan for the little engine. With all the stuff you have I would absolutely run the 383. If you were starting from scratch it would be different. The 383 even looks better.

Sheldon




Yeah... plus the mounts, linkage, distributor? manifold/headers, front accessories, and any other lil SB stuff i dont have. I definitely wont be going SB now... to get the thing running... Its more ov a down the road thing... to build a better more reliable commuter/canyon carver to live in this ridiculously expensive province.

Read: i want to drive my Challenger, but REALLY miss the injected 4.6L/5-speed in my old Mustang...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: OhioMopar] #1393731
02/28/13 08:12 AM
02/28/13 08:12 AM
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Is it going in that cool Challenger? If so, my answer would be simple. 383. I've always thought e-bodies were too hefty to be small block powered. Obviously that isn't a blanket statement. But if you have the 383 already it's a lot less legwork. Unless you enjoy the chase, as well.
I like 383's and have had good luck with them. Haven't done the Magnum in a car, but the 360 in my truck didn't have the low end grunt my 400 (not a 383, but a low deck ) had. Same gear, roughly the same tire size.
That probably helps in no way. But just my




Yes... that is the plan.

My E-body will be lighter than most. If i have to go 383 it should be around 3200lbs empty. It'd be 50lbs less if i didn't have to sell my new fiberglass hood to fund the damn thing...

Speaking ov 360's.... the bone stock (right down to the 2bbl and single exhaust) on my 78 Volare actually surprised me on how good it went. Ridiculously long gears and 3700-3800lbs, and that car still surprised me. The Magnum or 383 should have at least 100HP more, 500-700 less pounds weight, and slightly steeper gearing... I'd be more than happy with that right now.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: DPelletier] #1393732
02/28/13 08:19 AM
02/28/13 08:19 AM
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Quote:

I'd go with the magnum- The heads will flow better




Nope;

360 Magnum head: 202cfm at .500" lift
194cfm at .600" lift

516 BB head: 209.9cfm at .500" lift
219.5cfm at .600" lift


http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/62.html

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0804_small_block_mopar_engine/viewall.html

Dave




Hmmm... interesting...

But there is more to power than flow. How about velocity? Two different ports nearly the same flow, but one is quite a bit smaller and better designed. Surprised at the exhaust flow on the 516 with those tiny 1.60" valves...

Further, chamber shape/design is very important as well, and this is where (in my opinion) the old B/RB just fails hard. If i was building an engine with zero deck i think the Magnum would shine even brighter in this regard... but thats just hypothesis.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 2fast4yourBrain] #1393733
02/28/13 08:26 AM
02/28/13 08:26 AM
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I'd say neither.

Find a 400 block and a 440 crank, and the necessary pistons for it and be done with it.

But if I HAD to do either...383. More torque is always better. Extra weight is negligible.




Heh... now you've gone and built me a $3-5000 engine too. I'll get a paypal account if you're buying...

Besides... i dont need 451 cubes. Hell... for what i want to do i dont even need 383...

Funny how the extra weight is negligible... after you aluminize everything on the lowdeck except the heads, it weighs nearly the same as the Magnum. But HOW??? The small block doesn't even have iron waterpump/housing or intake, or steel crank, and everything is smaller, some things a LOT smaller on the SB. How the hell is the 383 even close...??? Weird. Small block Chevys are bloody heavy too. I dont get it.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: dustergirl340] #1393734
02/28/13 08:28 AM
02/28/13 08:28 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

I've always thought e-bodies were too hefty to be small block powered.




Our '72 Challenger weighs the same as our '73 Duster. With much worse weight distribution.

I like the room in the engine bay with a small block powered Challenger. It's luxury compared to that same small block in an A-body.




Its too bad they didn't make a small-block sized B/RB... then it would be easy to work on too.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1393735
02/28/13 08:35 AM
02/28/13 08:35 AM
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Posts: 4,862
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Talking unrebuilt short blocks here, the 360 magnum wins hands down. A 40 year old cast ringed 383 that lived under a carb all its life versus a moly ringed 360 that lived under a clean running efi system. If you've ever taken apart a high miles carb engine versus a high miles efi engine, it's a night and day difference. The 360 will have better ring seal, cleaner pistons and valves and be easier to get a decent compression ratio out of on a budget. As much as I like big blocks, you almost can't find a good running good condition unrebuilt stocker anymore.




I DO have a nice 383... got lucky. But now you're making the new stuff sound even better to me. Didn't know all that stuff. Hmmm...




Just HOW good is that 383? I built a 440 before, an unrebuilt engine, I threw a new set of rings in it, 440source heads, lunati cam, headers. It ran great during normal driving but just didn't make the upper (4000+) rpm power it should have. Upper rpm is where sub-par ring seal really shows itself. Since you already have the 383 and all those parts it's really hard to say sell but we don't know the true condition of the engine. Did you ever pull a head off it? If so, how much ridge was there?




You've obviously got higher standards than i do. This is how i do it... buy running engines (preferably original... so no bad mechanics work hiding inside), and dump 'em in cars. Its easy to tell if they're good. Never dropped in a good one yet and had a bad surprise. This 383 came from a nice car who's owner i knew, and i'm not cracking a gasket on it. That ALLLLLLLLWAYS leads to more work and more money. Its amazing how far you can go on 'i'd rather not know'... heh heh...

I'm sure it will burn some oil after time, the Mopars always do. Buying used is always a gamble, even in this case, but from what i've read here so is spending thousands on a big fancy build. This way if it goes bad i'm out a free 383 and just have to feed the crop-duster while i look for another drop-in. My budget for this is about $300-500 tops.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393736
02/28/13 11:32 AM
02/28/13 11:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,907
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

I'd go with the magnum- The heads will flow better




Nope;

360 Magnum head: 202cfm at .500" lift
194cfm at .600" lift

516 BB head: 209.9cfm at .500" lift
219.5cfm at .600" lift


http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/62.html

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0804_small_block_mopar_engine/viewall.html

Dave




Hmmm... interesting...

But there is more to power than flow. How about velocity? Two different ports nearly the same flow, but one is quite a bit smaller and better designed. Surprised at the exhaust flow on the 516 with those tiny 1.60" valves...

Further, chamber shape/design is very important as well, and this is where (in my opinion) the old B/RB just fails hard. If i was building an engine with zero deck i think the Magnum would shine even brighter in this regard... but thats just hypothesis.




The numbers above are intake at 2 different lifts , not exhaust . the stock 516 exh at .500 lift was something in a 135 range ...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: JohnRR] #1393737
02/28/13 11:34 AM
02/28/13 11:34 AM
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Quote:

I'd go with the magnum- The heads will flow better




Nope;

360 Magnum head: 202cfm at .500" lift
194cfm at .600" lift

516 BB head: 209.9cfm at .500" lift
219.5cfm at .600" lift


http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/62.html

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0804_small_block_mopar_engine/viewall.html

Dave




Hmmm... interesting...

But there is more to power than flow. How about velocity? Two different ports nearly the same flow, but one is quite a bit smaller and better designed. Surprised at the exhaust flow on the 516 with those tiny 1.60" valves...

Further, chamber shape/design is very important as well, and this is where (in my opinion) the old B/RB just fails hard. If i was building an engine with zero deck i think the Magnum would shine even brighter in this regard... but thats just hypothesis.




The numbers above are intake at 2 different lifts , not exhaust . the stock 516 exh at .500 lift was something in a 135 range ...




Well that was a brainfart bad enough to smell... Hey, its late and i should be in bed.

How does the stock 516 exhaust compare to the 360 Magnum then?

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393738
02/28/13 01:19 PM
02/28/13 01:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I'd go with the magnum- The heads will flow better




Nope;

360 Magnum head: 202cfm at .500" lift
194cfm at .600" lift

516 BB head: 209.9cfm at .500" lift
219.5cfm at .600" lift


http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/62.html

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0804_small_block_mopar_engine/viewall.html

Dave




Hmmm... interesting...

But there is more to power than flow. How about velocity? Two different ports nearly the same flow, but one is quite a bit smaller and better designed. Surprised at the exhaust flow on the 516 with those tiny 1.60" valves...

Further, chamber shape/design is very important as well, and this is where (in my opinion) the old B/RB just fails hard. If i was building an engine with zero deck i think the Magnum would shine even brighter in this regard... but thats just hypothesis.




The numbers above are intake at 2 different lifts , not exhaust . the stock 516 exh at .500 lift was something in a 135 range ...




Well that was a brainfart bad enough to smell... Hey, its late and i should be in bed.

How does the stock 516 exhaust compare to the 360 Magnum then?




It's all there in the links I posted, but here you go!

516 exh .5" 138.2 CFM
.6" 139.4 CFM

Magnum exh .5" 148 CFM
.6" 150 CFM

...and just for kicks, the much maligned 906's

Intake @ 0.5" 233.9 CFM
@ 0.6" 235.3 CFM

Exhaust @ 0.5" 155.2 CFM
@ 0.6" 157.6 CFM

..and yes, I know that there is more to head performance than flow, though it is the number that dictates maximum performance levels. As far as the Magnum's better exh. vs. the 516's better intake numbers... probably depends on exhaust, cam, etc.

Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: DPelletier] #1393739
02/28/13 01:59 PM
02/28/13 01:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,063
Irving, TX
feets Offline
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Irving, TX
I NEVER look at lift at or above .500" if I'm not installing a cam over .600" lift.

Even with a .509" cam I'm not going to look at .500" flow. It's useless.
I want to see flow at .400" to .450" for usable info.

Can you tell me how long your cam stays open above .500" lift?


We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: feets] #1393740
02/28/13 02:05 PM
02/28/13 02:05 PM
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U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

I NEVER look at lift at or above .500" if I'm not installing a cam over .600" lift.

Even with a .509" cam I'm not going to look at .500" flow. It's useless.
I want to see flow at .400" to .450" for usable info.

Can you tell me how long your cam stays open above .500" lift?




all the lift before max lift is more important , the valve sees those lifts twice while on the intake stroke.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: JohnRR] #1393741
02/28/13 02:16 PM
02/28/13 02:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Irving, TX
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We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: JohnRR] #1393742
02/28/13 02:18 PM
02/28/13 02:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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I dunno, but I think port size, velocity, etc. is all moot. CFM is CFM. it's a measure of volume per time. the more volume per time you move, the more power you can make, regardless of whether it's a super high speed velocity port with small cross sectional area, or a big fat wide port with very slow speed.

(obviously, as long as speed is fast enough to not cause the fuel vapor to fall out of suspension, and not so fast that you go turbulent)


**Photobucket sucks**
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393743
02/28/13 02:21 PM
02/28/13 02:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
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Quote:

I know you said you don't want the NV trans...mine held just fine with at least 400 ft lbs of torque at the crank...with street tires. I know a guy who's got his reg cab dakota into the 13s on slicks with a supercharged 318 and an NV3500.

if you keep your build mild, the 3500 will work ok.


or, you can source the Supra trans, those are much beefier than the NV3500, and some guys have put them behind their small blocks with the AX-15 bell housing.

but in general, yea, if you go with a TKO or a T-56, it's the same cost regardless of if you go small block or big block, the only part that's different between the 2 is the bell housing and possibly the flywheel depending on how your engine is balanced.




Dont get me wrong, after reading about the NV stuff i got all excited too... the gear spreads alone sold me... but again, not a simple bolt-in, and worse even than the Supra route. I'll hack my floors for a T-56 when the time comes (no time soon...), but not for a NV unit. Its not the power capacity... i doubt i'll exceed 400HP in any incarnation... this is a daily driver to have fun with, not a street incinerator. The NV sounds like a nightmare to fit and the shifter will be off as well.


SOOOO... unless i have the space and time to mess with the Supra install... i guess the OD stick is still gonna cost me dearly. Damn.




not necessarily....I'd really low buck it, forgo a gear and get an A833OD....with a mildish (say, under 226@.050) wide LSA cam (something in the 112 LSA) installed at 108, it should give you a wide enough powerband and flat torque curve to deal with the gear ratio spread (IIRC it's 3.09/1.74/1/.73)


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393744
02/28/13 02:24 PM
02/28/13 02:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

You also need to find an oil pan for the little engine. With all the stuff you have I would absolutely run the 383. If you were starting from scratch it would be different. The 383 even looks better.

Sheldon




Yeah... plus the mounts, linkage, distributor? manifold/headers, front accessories, and any other lil SB stuff i dont have. I definitely wont be going SB now... to get the thing running... Its more ov a down the road thing... to build a better more reliable commuter/canyon carver to live in this ridiculously expensive province.

Read: i want to drive my Challenger, but REALLY miss the injected 4.6L/5-speed in my old Mustang...




5.7 hemi...a non VVT take out (pre 09) with a small cam and tune using the OEM EFI should put out as much HP as a warm 360 or 383...at least here in MI, if you watch, you can find take outs with the harness and computer and under 60k miles for under $2k....


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: feets] #1393745
02/28/13 03:19 PM
02/28/13 03:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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DPelletier Offline
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Quote:

I NEVER look at lift at or above .500" if I'm not installing a cam over .600" lift.

Even with a .509" cam I'm not going to look at .500" flow. It's useless.
I want to see flow at .400" to .450" for usable info.

Can you tell me how long your cam stays open above .500" lift?




True enough; all that data is in the links I posted too.


Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: patrick] #1393746
02/28/13 03:28 PM
02/28/13 03:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

You also need to find an oil pan for the little engine. With all the stuff you have I would absolutely run the 383. If you were starting from scratch it would be different. The 383 even looks better.

Sheldon




Yeah... plus the mounts, linkage, distributor? manifold/headers, front accessories, and any other lil SB stuff i dont have. I definitely wont be going SB now... to get the thing running... Its more ov a down the road thing... to build a better more reliable commuter/canyon carver to live in this ridiculously expensive province.

Read: i want to drive my Challenger, but REALLY miss the injected 4.6L/5-speed in my old Mustang...




5.7 hemi...a non VVT take out (pre 09) with a small cam and tune using the OEM EFI should put out as much HP as a warm 360 or 383...at least here in MI, if you watch, you can find take outs with the harness and computer and under 60k miles for under $2k....




I don't think the OP has 2k in his budget, not the mention the extra 2k in addons it'll take to get that engine in the car.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 70Cuda383] #1393747
02/28/13 03:30 PM
02/28/13 03:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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DPelletier Offline
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Quote:

I dunno, but I think port size, velocity, etc. is all moot. CFM is CFM. it's a measure of volume per time. the more volume per time you move, the more power you can make, regardless of whether it's a super high speed velocity port with small cross sectional area, or a big fat wide port with very slow speed.

(obviously, as long as speed is fast enough to not cause the fuel vapor to fall out of suspension, and not so fast that you go turbulent)




Airflow is a specialty of mine, though my area of expertise is around exhaust/extraction systems the math is the same. Assuming that any testing is done at the same static pressure, then CFM is indeed CFM. Of course (given the same configuration), the smaller the port, the more velocity and therefore an increase in static pressure is inevitable...so if the pressure is constant, this translates to lower volumes.

...at the end of the day, the head that moves the most air has the potential to make the most power. Obviously there are other considerations like combustion chamber shape, etc. but all other things being equal, this is the case.

Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1393748
02/28/13 09:58 PM
02/28/13 09:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
Swears too much
Pale_Roader  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

You also need to find an oil pan for the little engine. With all the stuff you have I would absolutely run the 383. If you were starting from scratch it would be different. The 383 even looks better.

Sheldon




Yeah... plus the mounts, linkage, distributor? manifold/headers, front accessories, and any other lil SB stuff i dont have. I definitely wont be going SB now... to get the thing running... Its more ov a down the road thing... to build a better more reliable commuter/canyon carver to live in this ridiculously expensive province.

Read: i want to drive my Challenger, but REALLY miss the injected 4.6L/5-speed in my old Mustang...




5.7 hemi...a non VVT take out (pre 09) with a small cam and tune using the OEM EFI should put out as much HP as a warm 360 or 383...at least here in MI, if you watch, you can find take outs with the harness and computer and under 60k miles for under $2k....




I don't think the OP has 2k in his budget, not the mention the extra 2k in addons it'll take to get that engine in the car.




Yep... would be nice, but hardly an easy swap for a well-equipped shop, let alone my Mad Max mess...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: patrick] #1393749
02/28/13 10:03 PM
02/28/13 10:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
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Pale_Roader  Offline OP
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the frozen wastes...
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I know you said you don't want the NV trans...mine held just fine with at least 400 ft lbs of torque at the crank...with street tires. I know a guy who's got his reg cab dakota into the 13s on slicks with a supercharged 318 and an NV3500.

if you keep your build mild, the 3500 will work ok.


or, you can source the Supra trans, those are much beefier than the NV3500, and some guys have put them behind their small blocks with the AX-15 bell housing.

but in general, yea, if you go with a TKO or a T-56, it's the same cost regardless of if you go small block or big block, the only part that's different between the 2 is the bell housing and possibly the flywheel depending on how your engine is balanced.




Dont get me wrong, after reading about the NV stuff i got all excited too... the gear spreads alone sold me... but again, not a simple bolt-in, and worse even than the Supra route. I'll hack my floors for a T-56 when the time comes (no time soon...), but not for a NV unit. Its not the power capacity... i doubt i'll exceed 400HP in any incarnation... this is a daily driver to have fun with, not a street incinerator. The NV sounds like a nightmare to fit and the shifter will be off as well.


SOOOO... unless i have the space and time to mess with the Supra install... i guess the OD stick is still gonna cost me dearly. Damn.




not necessarily....I'd really low buck it, forgo a gear and get an A833OD....with a mildish (say, under [Email]226@.050)[/Email] wide LSA cam (something in the 112 LSA) installed at 108, it should give you a wide enough powerband and flat torque curve to deal with the gear ratio spread (IIRC it's 3.09/1.74/1/.73)




Yeah... theres that option, but i just sold my 833OD a couple years ago and having been in a pretty hot car (340 Demon) with that tranny i gotta say i just really didn't like that gear spread. For sheer low-buck i'm more inclined to go with my 1:1 833 and 2.76 rear gears. Better spread, horrible off the line, but then again i'm not drag racing.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393750
02/28/13 10:09 PM
02/28/13 10:09 PM
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Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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As for the airflow question... ultimate potential is not a concern for me. I'm building this car for daily driving, long distance (possibly very long distance) trips, reliability and just fun. I sold all my 600HP 400 lowdeck stuff and really... i would have no use for such a thing. I'm building a car i can drive and play with ALL the time... not something i take out only on sunny summer weekends with a support vehicle. 350-400HP would be more than fine in this 3100-3200lb car, and down the road squeezing another 50-75HP from the combo shouldn't be a big deal. It'd be nice to have 500+HP, but then i'm using a lot more gas...

The 450HP 360 Magnum build in that link with the Edelbrock heads was intriguing... That'd be perfect... or maybe even a similar combo on the 318 Magnum...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393751
02/28/13 10:45 PM
02/28/13 10:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,074
st.cloud fl
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what you described go with 360 mag follow 380hp crate engine combo.modern serpentine belt acc.modern ,every part store in america kind of thing.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393752
02/28/13 11:01 PM
02/28/13 11:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing Offline
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Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
To me it really depends on what your definition of power is?
Torque to get you moving,or power up top during a high rpm blast?
I see people comment that they would rather have a 383 to get the torque of a big block,but the 360 has a longer stroke than a 383. The 360 having a longer stroke and smaller port cross section will make more torque similarly equipped
Where a 383 shines,in my opinion,is its short stroke,big bore,and decent cross section for the cubic inches. They like to turn some rpm to make some power upstairs . Those 516 heads are not a bad piece either,closed chambers for decent quench.
I also think one of the advantages of the Magnum heads is the flow they get with the smaller valves than a similar flowing LA style head. This keeps the valve further away from the cylinder wall and helps keep from shrouding the valve as much with the small bores.
Keith

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Dunnuck Racing] #1393753
02/28/13 11:47 PM
02/28/13 11:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 167
maryland
7
74yellowduster Offline
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maryland
really, for a cheap build, i still think... grab a running 383

have the heads trimmed a bit at a machine shop, say .010 - .020 or so. nice and flat, probably drop the cc's by 3 or 4. put new valve seals on while you are in there, that way they can check the springs, make sure none of them are flat. a good new head gasket. if budget allows, a .500 or so cam. fresh up the carb. let her rip.

if you have a friendly relationship with the machine shop for the head cleanup you are golden.

i dont think you can go to a solid cam that will cost you because of the rockers. but it doesnt sound like you need solids, you will probably be under 6k rpm most of the time.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: DPelletier] #1393754
03/01/13 02:07 AM
03/01/13 02:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,408
Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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Kalispell Mt.
I read that article and can not find what bore the BB heads were tested on but I bet it was the bigger 440 bore so on a 383 they will probably flow less wit the smaller bore and since they are almost tied with the magnum on the intake already they will probably flow less on a 383 than a magnum will on a 360 plus you lose the efficiency and no leak sealing of the magnum design. Also the 300 hp crate motor might make 320+ hp but remember the M1 single plane can not hold the jock strap of an RPM air gap AND the truck cam is actually bigger and better than a 300hp crate cam. I bet if you gave both of them the RPM intake and a set of headers the 5.9 magnum would make for a faster car with a broader TQ curve with less leaks and more MPG and weighing significantly less without buying expensive aluminum stuff.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: d-150] #1393755
03/01/13 06:50 AM
03/01/13 06:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
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the frozen wastes...
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Quote:

what you described go with 360 mag follow 380hp crate engine combo.modern serpentine belt acc.modern ,every part store in america kind of thing.




That last bit i really like. In my obsession with modern efficiency i had dreamed up all kinds ov wonderful swaps for this car... but then i'd be driving my old 96 GT again, and thinking... yeah its great when everything is working, but when ANYTHING goes wrong... i'm hooped. As it stands, my girlfriend's (my old) 96 GT sits in her carport now, needing an engine... and for that she's looking at minimum $2500. I built my 72 440 Charger with an assortment ov non-power tools that literally fit in a large picnic cooler... I love the new HP tech, but i love simple too.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Dunnuck Racing] #1393756
03/01/13 06:58 AM
03/01/13 06:58 AM
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To me it really depends on what your definition of power is?
Torque to get you moving,or power up top during a high rpm blast?
I see people comment that they would rather have a 383 to get the torque of a big block,but the 360 has a longer stroke than a 383. The 360 having a longer stroke and smaller port cross section will make more torque similarly equipped
Where a 383 shines,in my opinion,is its short stroke,big bore,and decent cross section for the cubic inches. They like to turn some rpm to make some power upstairs . Those 516 heads are not a bad piece either,closed chambers for decent quench.
I also think one of the advantages of the Magnum heads is the flow they get with the smaller valves than a similar flowing LA style head. This keeps the valve further away from the cylinder wall and helps keep from shrouding the valve as much with the small bores.
Keith




Exactly my thinking when starting this thread. Now, add to this the Magnums roller technology over the 383's flat-tappet hydraulic, and the better shaped chambers... And then there is the rather huge difference in reciprocating weights, and as mentioned before, the apparently much better chance ov finding a nicely sealed and much newer engine in general (than my nice but 45 year old 383).

I actually really like RPM's (i WAS gonna build a stock-stroke 400 with ported B1BS heads and a tunnel ram for this car...), and my car is light with a stick... but right now what i want and what i need are probably two different things. I'll still do the 383 right now... i have to, its all there and ready to go, but i think i will be planning to go small block at the first opportunity.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 74yellowduster] #1393757
03/01/13 07:05 AM
03/01/13 07:05 AM
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Quote:

really, for a cheap build, i still think... grab a running 383

have the heads trimmed a bit at a machine shop, say .010 - .020 or so. nice and flat, probably drop the cc's by 3 or 4. put new valve seals on while you are in there, that way they can check the springs, make sure none of them are flat. a good new head gasket. if budget allows, a .500 or so cam. fresh up the carb. let her rip.

if you have a friendly relationship with the machine shop for the head cleanup you are golden.

i dont think you can go to a solid cam that will cost you because of the rockers. but it doesnt sound like you need solids, you will probably be under 6k rpm most of the time.




The plan is to just dump it in as-is, but with a new Whiplash cam (229/242, .518", 107 lobe sep), new springs, etc. Then port up my other 516's, have 'em chopped as much as i dare (.060"?), install some 1.81" exhaust valves, chop the guides a bit too, all new stuff, then swap 'em on later. That, with my SD intake, 800 carb, headers, MSD ignition, blah blah... should make that lil car scream...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: HotRodDave] #1393758
03/01/13 07:10 AM
03/01/13 07:10 AM
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Quote:

I read that article and can not find what bore the BB heads were tested on but I bet it was the bigger 440 bore so on a 383 they will probably flow less wit the smaller bore and since they are almost tied with the magnum on the intake already they will probably flow less on a 383 than a magnum will on a 360 plus you lose the efficiency and no leak sealing of the magnum design. Also the 300 hp crate motor might make 320+ hp but remember the M1 single plane can not hold the jock strap of an RPM air gap AND the truck cam is actually bigger and better than a 300hp crate cam. I bet if you gave both of them the RPM intake and a set of headers the 5.9 magnum would make for a faster car with a broader TQ curve with less leaks and more MPG and weighing significantly less without buying expensive aluminum stuff.




I'm sold i'm sold already! Haha... now yer just getting me excited...

The 300HP crate has a smaller cam than the junkyard 360 does...??? Again, the only really crappy deal is that real UNDER-chassis SB headers cost more than real estate.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393759
03/01/13 11:09 AM
03/01/13 11:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,907
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:

Quote:

really, for a cheap build, i still think... grab a running 383

have the heads trimmed a bit at a machine shop, say .010 - .020 or so. nice and flat, probably drop the cc's by 3 or 4. put new valve seals on while you are in there, that way they can check the springs, make sure none of them are flat. a good new head gasket. if budget allows, a .500 or so cam. fresh up the carb. let her rip.

if you have a friendly relationship with the machine shop for the head cleanup you are golden.

i dont think you can go to a solid cam that will cost you because of the rockers. but it doesnt sound like you need solids, you will probably be under 6k rpm most of the time.




The plan is to just dump it in as-is, but with a new Whiplash cam (229/242, .518", 107 lobe sep), new springs, etc. Then port up my other 516's, have 'em chopped as much as i dare (.060"?), install some 1.81" exhaust valves, chop the guides a bit too, all new stuff, then swap 'em on later. That, with my SD intake, 800 carb, headers, MSD ignition, blah blah... should make that lil car scream...




check those 516 for core shift , they have small exh ports to begin with so going to that big an exh valve and it's require port work to make it useful might get a little scarey ???

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: JohnRR] #1393760
03/02/13 07:46 AM
03/02/13 07:46 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

really, for a cheap build, i still think... grab a running 383

have the heads trimmed a bit at a machine shop, say .010 - .020 or so. nice and flat, probably drop the cc's by 3 or 4. put new valve seals on while you are in there, that way they can check the springs, make sure none of them are flat. a good new head gasket. if budget allows, a .500 or so cam. fresh up the carb. let her rip.

if you have a friendly relationship with the machine shop for the head cleanup you are golden.

i dont think you can go to a solid cam that will cost you because of the rockers. but it doesnt sound like you need solids, you will probably be under 6k rpm most of the time.




The plan is to just dump it in as-is, but with a new Whiplash cam (229/242, .518", 107 lobe sep), new springs, etc. Then port up my other 516's, have 'em chopped as much as i dare (.060"?), install some 1.81" exhaust valves, chop the guides a bit too, all new stuff, then swap 'em on later. That, with my SD intake, 800 carb, headers, MSD ignition, blah blah... should make that lil car scream...




check those 516 for core shift , they have small exh ports to begin with so going to that big an exh valve and it's require port work to make it useful might get a little scarey ???




I've done my homework (here), and i'm pretty convinced i'll be okay with the 1.81" valves, and the throat job/porting to make 'em happy. What does worry me about these heads is just the actual porting... I've got a good idea ov how far i can go and whats good in a typical 915/906/452/etc head, but these are supposedly thinner and more porous. I had no desire to hog out these heads, but i was going to do the usual stuff to them.... and not quite sure what i can get away with.

I suppose i could just sell that box ov new Ferreas and throw some old 1.74's in there, but then i'm still paying to have them back-cut. I bought those 1.81"s specifically for these heads.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393761
03/02/13 05:16 PM
03/02/13 05:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,935
Holly/MI
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Dean_Kuzluzski Offline
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Interesting thread topic................the 360 has a longer stroke and shorter rod.............383 has longer rod, shorter stroke. Lets overlook the 23 more cubes to the 383 for moment...........

typically that 383 will get you better efficiency/mpg at a slightly higher rpm. The 360 will give you more torque off idle/low rpm with the longer stroke and more agressive rod/stroke ratio...............

where is this going???? With the 2.94 gearing and LOTS of mileage..........I'd be looking to do the 360 UNLESS it's all interstate travel.

I, personally, wouldn't want to feed a thirsty V8 on a high mileage daily basis. If I had to, I'd build it for max mpg and big torque down low where it's going to spend all of its time.

I put LOTS of hours into porting a set of 516's for a .060 over 383 in my 69 RR. Did the MP porting templates. Went 1.74 exhaust valve too. Just gasket matching, opening up the bowls, working the valve guide boss can all run into lots of hours. And I think with a mild cam it would raise the efficiency of the motor such that it isn't a detriment to mpg. My RR got 14 mpg hwy to Indy from MI with a 750 AFB, single-plane, 484MP cam and 3.91 gears. Not a gasmizer deal at all but it did like to run at 3000-3400. I gained 2-3 mph thru the traps too!


R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski] #1393762
03/02/13 06:56 PM
03/02/13 06:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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HYPER8oSoNic Offline
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Quote:

Interesting thread topic................the 360 has a longer stroke and shorter rod.............383 has longer rod, shorter stroke. Lets overlook the 23 more cubes to the 383 for moment...........

typically that 383 will get you better efficiency/mpg at a slightly higher rpm. The 360 will give you more torque off idle/low rpm with the longer stroke and more agressive rod/stroke ratio...............

where is this going???? With the 2.94 gearing and LOTS of mileage..........I'd be looking to do the 360 UNLESS it's all interstate travel.

I, personally, wouldn't want to feed a thirsty V8 on a high mileage daily basis. If I had to, I'd build it for max mpg and big torque down low where it's going to spend all of its time.

I put LOTS of hours into porting a set of 516's for a .060 over 383 in my 69 RR. Did the MP porting templates. Went 1.74 exhaust valve too. Just gasket matching, opening up the bowls, working the valve guide boss can all run into lots of hours. And I think with a mild cam it would raise the efficiency of the motor such that it isn't a detriment to mpg. My RR got 14 mpg hwy to Indy from MI with a 750 AFB, single-plane, 484MP cam and 3.91 gears. Not a gasmizer deal at all but it did like to run at 3000-3400. I gained 2-3 mph thru the traps too!




A 383 can be built to be efficient as can a 360. the question is simple how hard are you willing to spin the motor at cruising speed. Since it take extra fuel to keep a short stroke motor accelerating (under load) vs a longer stroke motor, it would be much more feasible to build a motor with more low end torque in it. Since you do have 95% percent of the parts for the 383, build it. The Whiplash cam WILL raise the cylinder pressure (increase static-EFFECTIVE compression) by allowing cam timing events to happen sooner in the combustion process. The two
things you must do to "maximize" your power/efficiency/mileage goals is to degree the cam CAREFULLY!! Cam timing is critical and I'd make sure the damper is indexed properly for ignition timing/tuning purposes. Old dampers could have their ignition mark OFF by several degrees! All the above mods/checks can net you a
smoother, more efficient motor. The K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle always works!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski] #1393763
03/02/13 09:15 PM
03/02/13 09:15 PM
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Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
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Quote:

Interesting thread topic................the 360 has a longer stroke and shorter rod.............383 has longer rod, shorter stroke. Lets overlook the 23 more cubes to the 383 for moment...........

typically that 383 will get you better efficiency/mpg at a slightly higher rpm. The 360 will give you more torque off idle/low rpm with the longer stroke and more agressive rod/stroke ratio...............

where is this going???? With the 2.94 gearing and LOTS of mileage..........I'd be looking to do the 360 UNLESS it's all interstate travel.

I, personally, wouldn't want to feed a thirsty V8 on a high mileage daily basis. If I had to, I'd build it for max mpg and big torque down low where it's going to spend all of its time.




Heh... EXACTLY. Thats why i want an efficient V8 for this project. Its funny i've come a complete 180 in the last few years, but now i wish Mopar had made an even smaller 3rd gen hemi... 300cid or smaller. If i had to go through all the trouble and BS ov installing a new EFI engine in this car it'd probably be the 4.6L or 5L Ford mod... simply because it makes the same amount ov power from way less cubes.

If i were to build a specific engine for this car down the road it might even be smaller than the 360... maybe a 318 Magnum... or even a 340 Magnum. Again, i have the bonus ov having a light car... that will just get lighter and lighter as i go.

Quote:

I put LOTS of hours into porting a set of 516's for a .060 over 383 in my 69 RR. Did the MP porting templates. Went 1.74 exhaust valve too. Just gasket matching, opening up the bowls, working the valve guide boss can all run into lots of hours. And I think with a mild cam it would raise the efficiency of the motor such that it isn't a detriment to mpg. My RR got 14 mpg hwy to Indy from MI with a 750 AFB, single-plane, 484MP cam and 3.91 gears. Not a gasmizer deal at all but it did like to run at 3000-3400. I gained 2-3 mph thru the traps too!




I dont mind porting... kinda find it fun actually. Time well spent.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1393764
03/02/13 09:18 PM
03/02/13 09:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
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the frozen wastes...
Quote:

Quote:

Interesting thread topic................the 360 has a longer stroke and shorter rod.............383 has longer rod, shorter stroke. Lets overlook the 23 more cubes to the 383 for moment...........

typically that 383 will get you better efficiency/mpg at a slightly higher rpm. The 360 will give you more torque off idle/low rpm with the longer stroke and more agressive rod/stroke ratio...............

where is this going???? With the 2.94 gearing and LOTS of mileage..........I'd be looking to do the 360 UNLESS it's all interstate travel.

I, personally, wouldn't want to feed a thirsty V8 on a high mileage daily basis. If I had to, I'd build it for max mpg and big torque down low where it's going to spend all of its time.

I put LOTS of hours into porting a set of 516's for a .060 over 383 in my 69 RR. Did the MP porting templates. Went 1.74 exhaust valve too. Just gasket matching, opening up the bowls, working the valve guide boss can all run into lots of hours. And I think with a mild cam it would raise the efficiency of the motor such that it isn't a detriment to mpg. My RR got 14 mpg hwy to Indy from MI with a 750 AFB, single-plane, 484MP cam and 3.91 gears. Not a gasmizer deal at all but it did like to run at 3000-3400. I gained 2-3 mph thru the traps too!




A 383 can be built to be efficient as can a 360. the question is simple how hard are you willing to spin the motor at cruising speed. Since it take extra fuel to keep a short stroke motor accelerating (under load) vs a longer stroke motor, it would be much more feasible to build a motor with more low end torque in it. Since you do have 95% percent of the parts for the 383, build it. The Whiplash cam WILL raise the cylinder pressure (increase static-EFFECTIVE compression) by allowing cam timing events to happen sooner in the combustion process. The two
things you must do to "maximize" your power/efficiency/mileage goals is to degree the cam CAREFULLY!! Cam timing is critical and I'd make sure the damper is indexed properly for ignition timing/tuning purposes. Old dampers could have their ignition mark OFF by several degrees! All the above mods/checks can net you a
smoother, more efficient motor. The K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle always works!






Between the Whiplash cam and the shaved heads (later on) i should be doing okay dynamic compression-wise. Everything but quench... which would really be nice for the end-goal here.

I'll have to check that balancer.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393765
03/02/13 09:28 PM
03/02/13 09:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,408
Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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Kalispell Mt.
The whip lash cam you are set on is gonna waste a lot of fuel, too much overlap.

As for the too big of an engine complaint, just gear it higher it has the same effect.

A long stroke does not give any more TQ than a big bore engine of the same displacement, this has been proven a myth many times. It can mean you are getting a shrouded valve by the bore so breathing is limited making the engine a lower RPM type engine but if valve shrouding is not an issue then the bigger stroke does not make a difference.

A longer stroke will have more leverage on the crank but less surface area on the top of the piston for the pressure to push on, those two forces seem to balance each other out both theoretically in the real world. The real difference in big bore VS long stroke is valve shrouding.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393766
03/03/13 03:48 AM
03/03/13 03:48 AM
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Desert Tracker
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HYPER8oSoNic Offline
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Balancing the motor adds some "free" hp, may extend you rpm range a bit (valvetrain pending) and lengthen the life of the motor. Something to about.



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: HotRodDave] #1393767
03/03/13 09:14 AM
03/03/13 09:14 AM
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Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:

The whip lash cam you are set on is gonna waste a lot of fuel, too much overlap.

As for the too big of an engine complaint, just gear it higher it has the same effect.

A long stroke does not give any more TQ than a big bore engine of the same displacement, this has been proven a myth many times. It can mean you are getting a shrouded valve by the bore so breathing is limited making the engine a lower RPM type engine but if valve shrouding is not an issue then the bigger stroke does not make a difference.

A longer stroke will have more leverage on the crank but less surface area on the top of the piston for the pressure to push on, those two forces seem to balance each other out both theoretically in the real world. The real difference in big bore VS long stroke is valve shrouding.




Yeah... i do realize the cam choice hurts my overall plan a bit... but its the one guilty pleasure i'm allowing myself. At least its a modern Mopar-lobe cam and has some cylinder-pressure building capability. Plus... it sure sounds mean.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1393768
03/03/13 09:17 AM
03/03/13 09:17 AM
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Quote:

Balancing the motor adds some "free" hp, may extend you rpm range a bit (valvetrain pending) and lengthen the life of the motor. Something to about.






I'm a BIG fan ov the full balance treatment. The factory balance on Mopar stuff has always been one ov my chief criticisms ov the Mopar engines. Unfortunately... that quite literally jacks up my budget by about 10 times. No money for it.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393769
03/03/13 01:55 PM
03/03/13 01:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
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Quote:



Heh... EXACTLY. Thats why i want an efficient V8 for this project. Its funny i've come a complete 180 in the last few years, but now i wish Mopar had made an even smaller 3rd gen hemi... 300cid or smaller. If i had to go through all the trouble and BS ov installing a new EFI engine in this car it'd probably be the 4.6L or 5L Ford mod... simply because it makes the same amount ov power from way less cubes.





well....the hemi in my charger is only 2.85L.....when it's working in MDS mode.....


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
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2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393770
03/03/13 02:57 PM
03/03/13 02:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,186
Wherever I am.
J
Junky Offline
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Wherever I am.
Quote:

Quote:

The whip lash cam you are set on is gonna waste a lot of fuel, too much overlap.

As for the too big of an engine complaint, just gear it higher it has the same effect.

A long stroke does not give any more TQ than a big bore engine of the same displacement, this has been proven a myth many times. It can mean you are getting a shrouded valve by the bore so breathing is limited making the engine a lower RPM type engine but if valve shrouding is not an issue then the bigger stroke does not make a difference.

A longer stroke will have more leverage on the crank but less surface area on the top of the piston for the pressure to push on, those two forces seem to balance each other out both theoretically in the real world. The real difference in big bore VS long stroke is valve shrouding.




Yeah... i do realize the cam choice hurts my overall plan a bit... but its the one guilty pleasure i'm allowing myself. At least its a modern Mopar-lobe cam and has some cylinder-pressure building capability. Plus... it sure sounds mean.



I'm running the Whiplash cam in my 383. On the interstate cruising at 3,200 to 3,400 RPM with 3.73 gears and 28" tall tires, I get 12 mpg. Good enough for me. I think the Whiplash cam is a really good choice for a hot "street cam" with compression under 10 to 1 especially for an engine like mine that makes 9 to 1 at best.


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Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Junky] #1393771
03/03/13 06:08 PM
03/03/13 06:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 931
D
dulcich Offline
super stock
dulcich  Offline
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Pale Guy,
Forget about everything you have read on this thread, and all the hypothetical theory BS. Put in the 383, add the OD as you can (833 will work good), and you'll have one great running Challenger without breaking the bank.
-dulcich

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: patrick] #1393772
03/05/13 04:12 AM
03/05/13 04:12 AM
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Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:

Quote:



Heh... EXACTLY. Thats why i want an efficient V8 for this project. Its funny i've come a complete 180 in the last few years, but now i wish Mopar had made an even smaller 3rd gen hemi... 300cid or smaller. If i had to go through all the trouble and BS ov installing a new EFI engine in this car it'd probably be the 4.6L or 5L Ford mod... simply because it makes the same amount ov power from way less cubes.





well....the hemi in my charger is only 2.85L.....when it's working in MDS mode.....




Well if you like it thats great. But personally i think that is just backwards thinking on Mopar's part. They should have just designed a more efficient V8. I dont want a part time V8, i want an all-time V8. The MDS tech just seems hokey to me and i'll never ever warm up to it. But again... thats just my (unpopular) opinion.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Junky] #1393773
03/05/13 04:17 AM
03/05/13 04:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
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the frozen wastes...
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Pale_Roader  Offline OP
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the frozen wastes...
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The whip lash cam you are set on is gonna waste a lot of fuel, too much overlap.

As for the too big of an engine complaint, just gear it higher it has the same effect.

A long stroke does not give any more TQ than a big bore engine of the same displacement, this has been proven a myth many times. It can mean you are getting a shrouded valve by the bore so breathing is limited making the engine a lower RPM type engine but if valve shrouding is not an issue then the bigger stroke does not make a difference.

A longer stroke will have more leverage on the crank but less surface area on the top of the piston for the pressure to push on, those two forces seem to balance each other out both theoretically in the real world. The real difference in big bore VS long stroke is valve shrouding.




Yeah... i do realize the cam choice hurts my overall plan a bit... but its the one guilty pleasure i'm allowing myself. At least its a modern Mopar-lobe cam and has some cylinder-pressure building capability. Plus... it sure sounds mean.




I'm running the Whiplash cam in my 383. On the interstate cruising at 3,200 to 3,400 RPM with 3.73 gears and 28" tall tires, I get 12 mpg. Good enough for me. I think the Whiplash cam is a really good choice for a hot "street cam" with compression under 10 to 1 especially for an engine like mine that makes 9 to 1 at best.




Heh... well if my 383 gets 12mpg it'll be coming back out as fast as it went in. I've had a crappy-mileage Mopar... and i dont care how fun or how fast it was, it was a useless car to me. Utterly. My Challenger wont have 3.73 gearing though, or anything even close to that... so i'm hoping i can squeeze closer to 20 out ov it if i drive like a normal human being.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: dulcich] #1393774
03/05/13 04:20 AM
03/05/13 04:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
Swears too much
Pale_Roader  Offline OP
Swears too much

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Quote:

Pale Guy,
Forget about everything you have read on this thread, and all the hypothetical theory BS. Put in the 383, add the OD as you can (833 will work good), and you'll have one great running Challenger without breaking the bank.
-dulcich




Hey! Wow, i get Ehrenberg in my other thread, and you in this one.

Curious. Care to share WHY you dont like the Magnum idea? simplicity? money? or just the fact i already have all the 383 stuff handy? You dont think the Magnum's are better, more efficient technology? My 383's heads were designed in the 50's... thats gotta count for something...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393775
03/05/13 04:48 AM
03/05/13 04:48 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
master
451Mopar  Offline
master

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
For a street car / driver, I would take the 360 given the choices, but I have been looking at the Gen III hemis for a swap. Prices for a running 5.7 are pretty cheap, but the computer is still a bit pricy, but still a good way to get a FI engine for a decent price.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 451Mopar] #1393776
03/05/13 10:52 PM
03/05/13 10:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 46
Detroit, USA.
M
MagnumGT Offline
member
MagnumGT  Offline
member
M

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 46
Detroit, USA.
Well you have lots of technical info, it seems you have a philosophical question... a poker game, do I keep what I got, raise the stakes, or fold. After the last election I would absolutely put what I got together and ride. For every one of you guys with questions... there's two out there wishing they had your problems! The only way to get 20 MPG to me would be dropping in the entire Mag drivetrain out of a Dakota. If all your stuff was small block I would say the same thing... selling/trading/buying/rebuilding is all time consuming but most of all ...INEFFICIENT. I could make a flathead V8 efficient by drowning it in all new-tech parts and a 6-speed etc. Get out there and drive before we can't anymore.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: MagnumGT] #1393777
03/06/13 06:02 AM
03/06/13 06:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
Swears too much
Pale_Roader  Offline OP
Swears too much

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Quote:

Well you have lots of technical info, it seems you have a philosophical question... a poker game, do I keep what I got, raise the stakes, or fold. After the last election I would absolutely put what I got together and ride. For every one of you guys with questions... there's two out there wishing they had your problems! The only way to get 20 MPG to me would be dropping in the entire Mag drivetrain out of a Dakota. If all your stuff was small block I would say the same thing... selling/trading/buying/rebuilding is all time consuming but most of all ...INEFFICIENT. I could make a flathead V8 efficient by drowning it in all new-tech parts and a 6-speed etc. Get out there and drive before we can't anymore.




Oh i've already long decided what i'm going to do. I just wanna DRIVE this thing! So it would be mad to spend another year selling all my big block stuff, buying all the small block stuff, etc. Plus... i know big blocks. Gonna put together my nice lil 383 combo i've detailed above, with my 1:1 4-speed and some 2.76 gears and have some fun. Who knows... i might even be able to get to work again... WHILE i'm driving that and enjoying that i'll definitely be keeping the eyes peeled for a nice 360 Magnum, and all the swap stuff. I'll probably install that when i have a 5 or 6-speed lined up, and kill all the birds with one stone.

I'm still curious about Dulcich's thoughts on my above post...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393778
03/09/13 05:38 PM
03/09/13 05:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
F
Fury Fan Offline
master
Fury Fan  Offline
master
F

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Quote:

I'm still curious about Dulcich's thoughts on my above post...



That response might be relating to 'there's an awful lot of theory here, and proof is in the pudding, so save time and use the parts you already have'.

Or it might be 'I know more than everyone else and can spare only enough time to give you the correct answer, but I'm too busy to give the explanation'.

Not speaking of Dulcich, but merely about short responses that come in late in a long discussion like this.

I'm like you, Pale, I like healthy used low-buck engines. I'd use the 383 as that's the stuff you have on-hand. I would skip that Whiplash and use a Lunati 60302 (or 1 size smaller). Do a compression check and pick the cam based on cyl pressure. would be a nice engine to put that new StreetDemon T-quad-type carb on too.


Parts I seek: driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set 16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better. 69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields Send a PM.
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Fury Fan] #1393779
03/09/13 06:58 PM
03/09/13 06:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 931
D
dulcich Offline
super stock
dulcich  Offline
super stock
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 931
You pretty much hit it in your first response. You have the stuff, so that is a good reason to use it. If you have a 383 and think that going through a bunch of extra effort to swap to a 360 Mag will make for a much more efficient package, you'll end up not getting much reward for the effort. Really, fuel efficiency has never been a strong point with any 360 I've ever seen.

With your goals (20mpg?), I probably wouldn't go with that big overlap WL cam either.

The 383 is actually a very good all around street engine. For MPG and good horsepower, I would build it with the CC heads, a short cam with wide lsa and big exhaust split (stock Magnum cam maybe; 1.6rr would help on the power side), work the heads for flow and run tight quench. I always like your posts, PR, you seem to have a good perspective. Give some more details about your combo.
-dulcich

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: dulcich] #1393780
03/09/13 08:43 PM
03/09/13 08:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
H
HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
top fuel
H

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
Steve, you pretty much nailed it!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: dulcich] #1393781
03/09/13 10:23 PM
03/09/13 10:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
Swears too much
Pale_Roader  Offline OP
Swears too much

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Quote:

You pretty much hit it in your first response. You have the stuff, so that is a good reason to use it. If you have a 383 and think that going through a bunch of extra effort to swap to a 360 Mag will make for a much more efficient package, you'll end up not getting much reward for the effort. Really, fuel efficiency has never been a strong point with any 360 I've ever seen.




I'm not going to argue with you, because mainly i cant... i have zero experience with 360's, aside from one bone stock Volare that i never turned a wrench on (that actually got really good mileage... but had ridiculously long rear gears). But i just cant see why a 360 should be so bad on gas, especially a Magnum. I've heard that from so many people, many good engine guys even... but it is hard to make sense ov... on paper it looks like it should be better than a 340/350/351... Personally i think its just the vehicles they came in (mid-late 70's smog-boats, anything in the 80's, and very heavy 90's trucks/vans), and the type ov driving seen in those vehicles. Thats my theory anyways.

Or maybe the Magnum 318 is a better option. I'd hate to give up even more speed... but again this will be a light car... maybe i can get away with it.

And yeah... i understand the whole 'buy a $20000 Honda to save 10mpg, or keep the 15mpg old car and spend that $20000 on gas' catch-22 argument. In MY experience... having always been poor i've always found the better mileage car simply gets used a lot more. Saving the money spent on efficiency upgrades to spend on gas instead never EVER works for me. That money, if not spent on a better car/engine... just gets spent on other stuff instead and i'm STILL stuck not going anywhere because my car gets crappy mpg. I NEVER have money kicking around/saved.

That said i AM using the 383 right now... i'd be an idiot not to. I'm just thinking ahead on the SB stuff.

Quote:

With your goals (20mpg?), I probably wouldn't go with that big overlap WL cam either.




I know that one will hurt... but like i said, its my ONE guilty pleasure i'll allow myself. Never had a car with a big cam before.

Quote:

The 383 is actually a very good all around street engine. For MPG and good horsepower, I would build it with the CC heads, a short cam with wide lsa and big exhaust split (stock Magnum cam maybe; 1.6rr would help on the power side), work the heads for flow and run tight quench. I always like your posts, PR, you seem to have a good perspective. Give some more details about your combo.
-dulcich




Heh... thanks. I love the 383, always have. So much more than the 440. I like everything about the lowdeck. My original plan was to build a nasty 400 stock-stroke lowdeck and scream it to the moon (talk about your awesome MPG...). Had the B1's, tunnel ram, 2 230 blocks to choose from, etc. Never got off the ground because i couldn't get past the $1000 buy-in for the rocker system. I still have a lot ov good parts for lowdecks.

Details huh? well, how about my proposed combo...

-67 383 2-bbl engine (low comp, i probably dont wanna know... JohnRR depresses me every time he brings it up) unrebuilt and staying that way
-Holley SD intake, basic mild plenum mods that worked VERY well on my 440, no heat crossover
-Many different spacers to play with
-Holley 800DP or Street Avenger 670 to choose from. K&N stub stack
-alum water pump and housing, single groove stock pulleys (car has no accessories)
-MSD Pro-Billet dist. Will be getting the MSD box too.
-Chrome oil pan (deeper, stiffer than stock, gonna paint it engine color, i dont like chrome)
-Alum valve covers
-Mini starter (Dakota)
-Hedman shorty headers with modified collectors (because the stock ones suck)
OR
-Long tubes (whatever i can afford)
-3" mandrel X-pipe duals w Spintechs and T/A style exit

Not yet acquired...
-Whiplash cam (like the sound, the modern Chrysler lobes, seems to make good power, REALLY like the cylinder pressure building effect)
-Machining on another pair o' 516 heads i have. Was gonna install some new Ferrea 1.81's (that i have already), port 'em as far as i dare, cut the guides, shave 'em as far as i dare.

I may or may not do the head swap before dumping the plant in the car. If the guides NEED to be cut for a .518" cam (they dont for the Mopar .509"...???) then i guess i'll have to, but i'd really like to avoid it for now. That machining is gonna add up i'm sure...

There is no money for a rebuild, so no quench unfortunately. I looked far and wide for a 68-9 383 Magnum runner, hoping i could get closer to quench and better compression... but never found one. The 67 came out ov a very nice 300, and i knew the owner.

Rest ov the car:

-Lakewood scattershield (have block saver too)
-McLeod PP (have to buy a different clutch disc though)
-Hurst Super Shifter 3 with Pistol grip
-833 out ov 70 340 Cuda
-8 3/4" rear (not in car, have yet to put it together or find a pumpkin... the sure grip i had turned out to be junk)
-Might get tricky and mickey-mouse an aluminum driveshaft from something at the wrecker (dont have a shaft yet)
-Aluminum rad (junkyard)
-Electric fuel pump

The car is a 70 Challenger 6 cyl/3speed car. The final first-phase curb weight with the big block (and now that i just sold my FG hood, dammit) should be around 3150lbs. And yes... it WILL be that light. I'm a weight-reduction master (and dont even own a hole-saw).

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393782
03/10/13 08:04 AM
03/10/13 08:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
I Live Here
gdonovan  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
Quote:


But i just cant see why a 360 should be so bad on gas, especially a Magnum. I've heard that from so many people, many good engine guys even...




I have a 94 magnum 5.9 in my Duster with a 42RH trans & 3.55's and it gets well over 20 mpg on the highway.

Has Enginequest "iron ram" heads, LA windage tray, CompCams .510 magnum roller, Edelbrock RPM dual plane, Carter AFB and stock manifolds.

Car just goes to beat the band and on the highway turns 1800-1900 rpm while doing 75-80 mph. Overdrive and lockup rules!

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393783
03/10/13 03:53 PM
03/10/13 03:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,935
Holly/MI
D
Dean_Kuzluzski Offline
master
Dean_Kuzluzski  Offline
master
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,935
Holly/MI
Just like learning how to save up money..............

it takes discipline............

to stick to a totally matched system for best results/happiness.

A single-plane Holley SD intake, 800cfm DP car and a the lumpy cam of the month isn't going to be real good on gas. And when a punk in his 302 2 barrel Ford runs away from you at a light it will just add insult to injury. More like 600-625 Holley or AFB, Eddy Performer and the cam mentioned here.............

The factory 335hp RR repro cam, or something similar, would be a better compromise that would still have a little rumble. Narrow lobe center cams typically, by nature, hurt mpg.

I know you've already made up your mind on the cam and everyone including the experts have tried to talk sense here but it just had to be said.

And I won't even get into the time wasted polishing the proverbial turd when it comes to used, but marginally, good shortblocks with recon'd heads. Done tried it, motor ran great for a year and then when to mud after that quickly. A good test for worn rings. Have fun.


R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: gdonovan] #1393784
03/10/13 08:05 PM
03/10/13 08:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,074
st.cloud fl
D
d-150 Offline
Smarter than a 5th grader?
d-150  Offline
Smarter than a 5th grader?
D

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,074
st.cloud fl
listen to this guy

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski] #1393785
03/11/13 06:13 AM
03/11/13 06:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
Swears too much
Pale_Roader  Offline OP
Swears too much

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Quote:

Just like learning how to save up money..............

it takes discipline............

to stick to a totally matched system for best results/happiness.

A single-plane Holley SD intake, 800cfm DP car and a the lumpy cam of the month isn't going to be real good on gas. And when a punk in his 302 2 barrel Ford runs away from you at a light it will just add insult to injury. More like 600-625 Holley or AFB, Eddy Performer and the cam mentioned here.............




The combo i laid out here IS nicely matched... you gotta give it that. In fact, not having a bit more compression and any quench aside, i'd say its near-perfect for a thrown together plant. Maybe not for mileage... but like i said, i have no illusions there. As far as i'm concerned anything involving a 383 will be bad on gas already, as compared to the options.

How exactly will a 302 2bbl run away from me at the light? I dont race from the light... its not a drag car. I'll find that 302 punk in the canyon...

Quote:

The factory 335HP RR repro cam, or something similar, would be a better compromise that would still have a little rumble. Narrow lobe center cams typically, by nature, hurt mpg.




And this point is always going to be personal preference, but i find nothing mean sounding or 'rumbly' about a factory 383 Magnum cam. If i was going to go as far as a 'mileage' or compromise cam, i'd get one specifically made for that and have NO coolness coming out ov the pipes. I dont believe in half-measures... its gotta be one extreme or the other. Compromise never ever seems to make me happy... i ALWAYS wish i'd either gone with the tiny, or the biggest engine... the 2.76 or the 4.10 gears, etc. At least its good at something.

Quote:

I know you've already made up your mind on the cam and everyone including the experts have tried to talk sense here but it just had to be said.




Hey man, i'm always listening. I take it all in... and love the fact that theres 6 pages ov opinions on this. I'm open-minded. I just have a certain vision and purpose for this car... they DONT mesh... (they could if i was rich, but i'm not), so i'm just trying to get a bit ov everything.

Quote:

And I won't even get into the time wasted polishing the proverbial turd when it comes to used, but marginally, good shortblocks with recon'd heads. Done tried it, motor ran great for a year and then when to mud after that quickly. A good test for worn rings. Have fun.




Again you have to understand my point... and that i've NEVER had a rebuilt engine... so i have nothing to compare used engines to. I've had MANY runners... just pulled out and dropped in... and most have been fine. The ones that weren't usually had some glaring warning signs. Nothing wrong with a used engine. Half the hotrods on this forum are technically running hard on used engines... not everything here has less than 50K on it.

And hopefully within a year i'll be finding something better to drop in it. This 383 is and was always (for me) a temporary fix. If the MPG does turn out to rival my Chargers... well then that will really kickstart my quest for a better alternative. Been looking up ways to squeeze power out ov a 5.2L Magnum the last couple days...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1393786
03/11/13 01:17 PM
03/11/13 01:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
M
moper Offline
I Live Here
moper  Offline
I Live Here
M

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
It all depends on what you can spend on each. IMO - the longest stroke will always get the nod from me. The two engines are very close. The 383 will add more value to an E body and most people like looking at one more than a small block. The 5.9L will get better milage and is easier to work on because it's smaller. It will also IMO be more responsive in a street driving arena due to the 3.58 stroke. So if the money's there for the transmission, driveshaft, and mounts/kickdown then the 383 might be a better payback. The 5.9L will drop where a similar small block was and feel quicker - all other things being equal.
And yes - either engine can be built for better performance...lol


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: moper] #1393787
03/12/13 12:21 AM
03/12/13 12:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
H
HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
top fuel
H

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
Well, you can always follow Steve's lead...
Engine Masters, Spring 2009, the article titled "383 Power Play", using it ONLY as a GUIDE for YOUR APPLICATION). Not all mods in the article would suit your purpose, BUT the text is well defined in
hands-on tech!! As far as those big-valves
in the 516's, be cautious! Do your HOMEWORK on those heads FIRST! I'd use the tech archives and other tech article as a learning tool before the trial and error on those heads. Might find that a comp. valve job and backcut 2.08 intakes and larger 1.74 exhaust valves may work, maybe not (depends again on cam selection). Or maybe a set of 906's may fit the bill. Simple, BUT effective mods are good - exotic and expensive mods are WASTE of TIME and PERFORMANCE!! The K.I.S.S. principle.


Last edited by HYPER8oSoNic; 03/12/13 12:53 AM.

"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393788
03/12/13 01:11 AM
03/12/13 01:11 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
H
HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
top fuel
H

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker


Details huh? well, how about my proposed combo...

-67 383 2-bbl engine (low comp, i probably dont wanna know... JohnRR depresses me every time he brings it up) unrebuilt and staying that way
-Holley SD intake, basic mild plenum mods that worked VERY well on my 440, no heat crossover
-Many different spacers to play with
-Holley 800DP or Street Avenger 670 to choose from. K&N stub stack
-alum water pump and housing, single groove stock pulleys (car has no accessories)
-MSD Pro-Billet dist. Will be getting the MSD box too.
-Chrome oil pan (deeper, stiffer than stock, gonna paint it engine color, i dont like chrome)
-Alum valve covers
-Mini starter (Dakota)
-Hedman shorty headers with modified collectors (because the stock ones suck)
OR
-Long tubes (whatever i can afford)
-3" mandrel X-pipe duals w Spintechs and T/A style exit

Not yet acquired...
-Whiplash cam (like the sound, the modern Chrysler lobes, seems to make good power, REALLY like the cylinder pressure building effect)
-Machining on another pair o' 516 heads i have. Was gonna install some new Ferrea 1.81's (that i have already), port 'em as far as i dare, cut the guides, shave 'em as far as i dare.

I may or may not do the head swap before dumping the plant in the car. If the guides NEED to be cut for a .518" cam (they dont for the Mopar .509"...???) then i guess i'll have to, but i'd really like to avoid it for now. That machining is gonna add up i'm sure...

There is no money for a rebuild, so no quench unfortunately. I looked far and wide for a 68-9 383 Magnum runner, hoping i could get closer to quench and better compression... but never found one. The 67 came out ov a very nice 300, and i knew the owner.

Rest ov the car:

-Lakewood scattershield (have block saver too)
-McLeod PP (have to buy a different clutch disc though)
-Hurst Super Shifter 3 with Pistol grip
-833 out ov 70 340 Cuda
-8 3/4" rear (not in car, have yet to put it together or find a pumpkin... the sure grip i had turned out to be junk)
-Might get tricky and mickey-mouse an aluminum driveshaft from something at the wrecker (dont have a shaft yet)
-Aluminum rad (junkyard)
-Electric fuel pump

The car is a 70 Challenger 6 cyl/3speed car. The final first-phase curb weight with the big block (and now that i just sold my FG hood, dammit) should be around 3150lbs. And yes... it WILL be that light. I'm a weight-reduction master (and dont even own a hole-saw).





The 670 cfm would be a better choice with your Whiplash cam. Ever take a look at the Lunati Factory performance cam for the 383/440 Magnums
pn 10305LUN, if you have concerns with valve guide
machining (higher-rate double springs). Food for thought and the numbers don't look bad at all! Just an observation.



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1393789
03/12/13 04:18 AM
03/12/13 04:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
Swears too much
Pale_Roader  Offline OP
Swears too much

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Quote:

Well, you can always follow Steve's lead...
Engine Masters, Spring 2009, the article titled "383 Power Play", using it ONLY as a GUIDE for YOUR APPLICATION). Not all mods in the article would suit your purpose, BUT the text is well defined in
hands-on tech!! As far as those big-valves
in the 516's, be cautious! Do your HOMEWORK on those heads FIRST! I'd use the tech archives and other tech article as a learning tool before the trial and error on those heads. Might find that a comp. valve job and backcut 2.08 intakes and larger 1.74 exhaust valves may work, maybe not (depends again on cam selection). Or maybe a set of 906's may fit the bill. Simple, BUT effective mods are good - exotic and expensive mods are WASTE of TIME and PERFORMANCE!! The K.I.S.S. principle.






Got a link? I dont have the mag.

Keep in mind i am NOT rebuilding these heads... only doing the exhaust side (and only cause i have to to go bigger valves). I dont care how mickey-mouse that sounds... its all i can afford. I just wanna get those SBC exhaust valves outta there. Question is, do i go used 1.74's (and pay for the back cut), or new 1.81's. No one can agree, so far its about 50/50 on that one.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1393790
03/12/13 04:30 AM
03/12/13 04:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
Swears too much
Pale_Roader  Offline OP
Swears too much

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Quote:



Details huh? well, how about my proposed combo...

-67 383 2-bbl engine (low comp, i probably dont wanna know... JohnRR depresses me every time he brings it up) unrebuilt and staying that way
-Holley SD intake, basic mild plenum mods that worked VERY well on my 440, no heat crossover
-Many different spacers to play with
-Holley 800DP or Street Avenger 670 to choose from. K&N stub stack
-alum water pump and housing, single groove stock pulleys (car has no accessories)
-MSD Pro-Billet dist. Will be getting the MSD box too.
-Chrome oil pan (deeper, stiffer than stock, gonna paint it engine color, i dont like chrome)
-Alum valve covers
-Mini starter (Dakota)
-Hedman shorty headers with modified collectors (because the stock ones suck)
OR
-Long tubes (whatever i can afford)
-3" mandrel X-pipe duals w Spintechs and T/A style exit

Not yet acquired...
-Whiplash cam (like the sound, the modern Chrysler lobes, seems to make good power, REALLY like the cylinder pressure building effect)
-Machining on another pair o' 516 heads i have. Was gonna install some new Ferrea 1.81's (that i have already), port 'em as far as i dare, cut the guides, shave 'em as far as i dare.

I may or may not do the head swap before dumping the plant in the car. If the guides NEED to be cut for a .518" cam (they dont for the Mopar .509"...???) then i guess i'll have to, but i'd really like to avoid it for now. That machining is gonna add up i'm sure...

There is no money for a rebuild, so no quench unfortunately. I looked far and wide for a 68-9 383 Magnum runner, hoping i could get closer to quench and better compression... but never found one. The 67 came out ov a very nice 300, and i knew the owner.

Rest ov the car:

-Lakewood scattershield (have block saver too)
-McLeod PP (have to buy a different clutch disc though)
-Hurst Super Shifter 3 with Pistol grip
-833 out ov 70 340 Cuda
-8 3/4" rear (not in car, have yet to put it together or find a pumpkin... the sure grip i had turned out to be junk)
-Might get tricky and mickey-mouse an aluminum driveshaft from something at the wrecker (dont have a shaft yet)
-Aluminum rad (junkyard)
-Electric fuel pump

The car is a 70 Challenger 6 cyl/3speed car. The final first-phase curb weight with the big block (and now that i just sold my FG hood, dammit) should be around 3150lbs. And yes... it WILL be that light. I'm a weight-reduction master (and dont even own a hole-saw).





The 670 cfm would be a better choice with your Whiplash cam. Ever take a look at the Lunati Factory performance cam for the 383/440 Magnums
pn 10305LUN, if you have concerns with valve guide
machining (higher-rate double springs). Food for thought and the numbers don't look bad at all! Just an observation.






Yeah, the 800DP would not be my first, or even second choice, unless this was going to be the all-out engine i originally had in mind. I wish i still had the 750 vac secondary i sold with the Charger.

I was thinking 670 too. The 670 i have came off a friend's 440 Satellite, and worked pretty well for that car (HEAVY, stock 440, mild or stock everything). I'm thinking it might do a lot better on 60 less cubes... plus, its almost new and has some neat features. Down the road i could probably do a few trick mods and get it a bit over 700cfm too. That car actually got some pretty stupid mpg for the 440 and how bloody heavy it was.

I'll check out the Lunati cam, but last i checked they make Chevy lobe cams... and it just seems silly to use a Chevy cam when there are good brands making real Mopar cams.

Edit: Yeah... just checked, thats a Chevy cam, and no bigger than a stock one. Not gonna run hard or sound good. Pass.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393791
03/12/13 09:20 AM
03/12/13 09:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Pale, if you want a 750 vac buy a used unit at the next swap meet for $50 and rebuild it. As far as cams go I'm not up on the whiplash cams but I'm sure you can find a decent grind for under $150. If that's too much the Sumit 488 cam is like $89 w/o lifters. That motor should run fine. It should have at least 9:1 if not a tad more w/ the 516 heads. Quench is over-rated... slam it together and go for a ride.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393792
03/13/13 06:42 PM
03/13/13 06:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,507
Royersford, PA
B
bschargerse Offline
master
bschargerse  Offline
master
B

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,507
Royersford, PA
Quote:

I'll check out the Lunati cam, but last i checked they make Chevy lobe cams... and it just seems silly to use a Chevy cam when there are good brands making real Mopar cams.

Edit: Yeah... just checked, thats a Chevy cam, and no bigger than a stock one. Not gonna run hard or sound good. Pass.




The Lunati 10305LUN cam is not based on a Chevy lobe. It is Lunati's replacement for the factory Magnum cam. I called their tech department last fall about this cam, they told me this cam and their Voodoo series are designed specifically for Mopars utilizing their lifter size. The part number has been changed, it is now 10211005. Here is a link to the specs http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1560&gid=255


Brian - 1971 Dodge Challenger
"The Dodge, which was practically stock, just left the Mustang like you wouldn't believe."
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393793
03/14/13 05:20 AM
03/14/13 05:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
Somebody mentioned the 383 can made "gobs' of torque, I assume that the poster implies that is more then a 360, so does 23 ci more from a short stroke motor make that much more torque then a longer stroke motor? Since no one has questioned the "gobs" comment, it's a correct comparsion?


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: jcc] #1393794
03/14/13 06:02 AM
03/14/13 06:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,935
Holly/MI
D
Dean_Kuzluzski Offline
master
Dean_Kuzluzski  Offline
master
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,935
Holly/MI
Quote:

Somebody mentioned the 383 can made "gobs' of torque, I assume that the poster implies that is more then a 360, so does 23 ci more from a short stroke motor make that much more torque then a longer stroke motor? Since no one has questioned the "gobs" comment, it's a correct comparsion?




Don't forget the lighter reciprocating weight of a smallblock would be a freebie inherent to the "gobs" that the 360 would have.

BUT, the experts have spoken and it's all moot anyways..............

the OP has the combo already tweaked in his mind and is going to build it to his liking no matter what is said. Which is fine but you'd think we could all walk away sharing ideas regardless.

A cam'd up car with tall gearing will be a fast car but not a quick one. Been there dun dat.


R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski] #1393795
03/14/13 07:51 AM
03/14/13 07:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
Swears too much
Pale_Roader  Offline OP
Swears too much

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Quote:

Quote:

Somebody mentioned the 383 can made "gobs' of torque, I assume that the poster implies that is more then a 360, so does 23 ci more from a short stroke motor make that much more torque then a longer stroke motor? Since no one has questioned the "gobs" comment, it's a correct comparsion?




Don't forget the lighter reciprocating weight of a smallblock would be a freebie inherent to the "gobs" that the 360 would have.

BUT, the experts have spoken and it's all moot anyways..............

the OP has the combo already tweaked in his mind and is going to build it to his liking no matter what is said. Which is fine but you'd think we could all walk away sharing ideas regardless.

A cam'd up car with tall gearing will be a fast car but not a quick one. Been there dun dat.




Yeah... this has been a good thread, cant believe it went 6 pages.

The whole big cam tall gears thing IS going to suck, but it will definitely fast-track any better idea i can come up with... 5 speed, 6 speed, ANY kind ov OD (well, anything but that factory 4-speed OD anyways). Funny... i remember watching Vanishing Point, in a few scenes where he peels away from a stop, and how odd it sounded... Well, thats exactly what that car had going apparently... done-up engine, 4-speed and 2.76 gears. Thinking back... i can live with that for the time being. This is a highway car first and foremost.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393796
03/14/13 09:37 AM
03/14/13 09:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
For a highway car I'd think the 383 would be a good choice. You can get 350hp out of a 383 2bbl motor pretty easy. I'd stick w/ a 4 speed, the 5 and 6 speeds out there involve a ton of fab work and aren't exactly cheap.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393797
03/14/13 10:13 AM
03/14/13 10:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
I Live Here
patrick  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
definitely go with the 670, I'd probably look at hedman elites for headers, and for a cam, I'd look at these 2 lunati cams, I'd choose the smaller one

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1578&gid=287

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1579&gid=287

comp #911 springs should work with either cam

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-911-16/overview/


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: bschargerse] #1393798
03/14/13 11:09 AM
03/14/13 11:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
H
HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic  Offline
top fuel
H

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
The Factory blueprint cam would be better with your 516 heads. I doubt that you have to
cut the tops of the valve guides or machine the spring seats. This cam takes a single spring with a damper insert. The 516 should be okay with this cam, depending on gearing, size of carburetor, intake manifold type/exhaust setup and intended use of motor. With the other two Lunati grinds suggested, (due to the HIGHER LIFTS ) you may have to do the machine work on those earlier 516 heads, since the pocket areas and exhaust valves are smaller (1.60 vs.1.74 later head). The remedy may be to pick up a set of later 906's or
452's (responds best to the bigger valves and template porting - thank you Steve D. and dogdays, I AM a student! ) and rework them to the way you want them! I do not have the link for the 383 article, but you can buy a back issue from Engine Masters. Great tech and cost/performance comparisions! A good ignition tune and timing setup, will NET great response and good power in you 383. Again, DO the research and USE the tech archives wisely. The trial and error tuning should be done in the car once the motor is up and running. Then you will see what the motor likes and dislikes under load and real-time driving. Suggestion: ALWAYS keep a baseline (starting or reference point) figure BEFORE you make changes, it would definitely make life (yours and the engines') much easier!


Last edited by HYPER8oSoNic; 03/14/13 11:45 AM.

"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393799
03/14/13 02:06 PM
03/14/13 02:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 167
maryland
7
74yellowduster Offline
member
74yellowduster  Offline
member
7

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 167
maryland
Quote:

Curious. Care to share WHY you dont like the Magnum idea? simplicity? money? or just the fact i already have all the 383 stuff handy? You dont think the Magnum's are better, more efficient technology? My 383's heads were designed in the 50's... thats gotta count for something...




in case you are still convinced that the "newer" technology is "always" better... here is a photo of a magnum head. both of the heads from that engine were cracked between the valve seats.
(it's a very common occurrance, by the way)

here is a thread about those heads:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=223959&highlight=magnum

7625791-Cracked.jpg (134 downloads)
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 74yellowduster] #1393800
03/14/13 02:29 PM
03/14/13 02:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
F
Fury Fan Offline
master
Fury Fan  Offline
master
F

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Quote:


in case you are still convinced that the "newer" technology is "always" better... here is a photo of a magnum head. both of the heads from that engine were cracked between the valve seats.
(it's a very common occurrance, by the way)




I've heard the head-cracking story for years, and for a long time I thought "OMG, gotta watch that if I ever get a Maggie, everyone says those heads are junk and too much $$ to fix". Lots of guys say *every* head they got from a JY was cracked.

Newer perspective, though, is that it is probably not a big deal. I've seen lots of wrecked trucks/vans in junkyards, and presumably they were driving down the road when they got hit. I've never heard of a crack hitting teh water jacket, and the crack is most likely due to residual stresses due to the induction hardening of the seats - so it cracks once, and then is done.

EDIT - only the exh seat is hardened, I believe, and it's awfully close to teh intake seat (the intake seat surely has some spill-over localized hardening), and the space between them comes up to a point that you can see in that picture. If that point/edge were dressed down ever so slightly at the factory, I'd bet cracks would not occur.

IMHO, lots of Maggies are driving around with cracked heads, driven by blissfully-ignorant drivers.

Aside from that, teh Maggie head benefits from 30 years of design improvements relating to efficiency, HP (stock vs stock, per CID of engine), reduced emissions, and detonation resistance. Not a fair comparison at all.

Last edited by Fury Fan; 03/14/13 02:35 PM.

Parts I seek: driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set 16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better. 69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields Send a PM.
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Fury Fan] #1393801
03/14/13 02:40 PM
03/14/13 02:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 167
maryland
7
74yellowduster Offline
member
74yellowduster  Offline
member
7

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 167
maryland
Quote:

Aside from that, teh Maggie head benefits from 30 years of design improvements relating to efficiency, HP (stock vs stock, per CID of engine), reduced emissions, and detonation resistance. Not a fair comparison at all.




technologically speaking, i'll stick with my aluminum eddy performer rpm's on my 400. higher compression, perfect quench, flow better and are even more detonation resistant than the magnum heads.

higher compression ratios burn the gas more completely (thus more power for the same amount of gas).

p.s. the magnums came out around 1992. i think the eddy's came out around 2000.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: 74yellowduster] #1393802
03/14/13 03:20 PM
03/14/13 03:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
F
Fury Fan Offline
master
Fury Fan  Offline
master
F

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Well, you hafta have higher CR with alum due to higher heat loss, so depending on where you're at, that aspect might be a wash vs a stock Mag. The higher turbulence due to CR should still give benefit, though, but I wonder if the Mag ports compensate for that better than Eddy???

I'm not sure we could automatically say the Eddy is superior to a Maggie simply because it's 8 years newer, though. I'd bet Mopar had lots more resources to develop/refine that head vs Eddy (heads are crucial to emissions compliance), plus the heads are both for vastly different purposes. Both are better than an OEM bigblock head, without doubt.

Either way, Eddy is beyond the scope of what Pale is looking for.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393803
03/14/13 05:26 PM
03/14/13 05:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,907
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
I Win

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,907
U.S.S.A.
Quote:

5 speed, 6 speed, ANY kind of OD (well, anything but that factory 4-speed OD anyways).




What's the problem with the factory OD ??? It's fits into your budget ... CHEAP ...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Fury Fan] #1393804
03/14/13 09:36 PM
03/14/13 09:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
Swears too much
Pale_Roader  Offline OP
Swears too much

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Quote:

Well, you hafta have higher CR with alum due to higher heat loss, so depending on where you're at, that aspect might be a wash vs a stock Mag. The higher turbulence due to CR should still give benefit, though, but I wonder if the Mag ports compensate for that better than Eddy???

I'm not sure we could automatically say the Eddy is superior to a Maggie simply because it's 8 years newer, though. I'd bet Mopar had lots more resources to develop/refine that head vs Eddy (heads are crucial to emissions compliance), plus the heads are both for vastly different purposes. Both are better than an OEM bigblock head, without doubt.

Either way, Eddy is beyond the scope of what Pale is looking for.




I dont know what the small block Edelbrocks look like, but the big block ones came out around the same time and they're still based off ov 50 year old dinosaur tech. The chambers are a complete afterthought and for that reason alone i'd never use them. The Edelbrock Magnum heads look pretty good though.

Its not always about flow, and so many people still insist that it is. If it was just about flow we'd all still be driving rectangle-port big blocks, 460's and 440-1 Indy 440's around and getting 7mpg.

And yeah... heh... i'm pretty far away from budgeting a pair ov aluminum heads into the mix...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: JohnRR] #1393805
03/14/13 09:39 PM
03/14/13 09:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
Swears too much
Pale_Roader  Offline OP
Swears too much

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Quote:

Quote:

5 speed, 6 speed, ANY kind of OD (well, anything but that factory 4-speed OD anyways).




What's the problem with the factory OD ??? It's fits into your budget ... CHEAP ...




Well... i've been in one, in a pretty similar combo/car than i'm trying to build here, and i just did not like the gear spread. That said, if i get this rig running, and later find one that will bolt right in, i'll probably try it out. But i just dont think its much ov a performance transmission with that gearing.

Plus... i'm still pretty choked that i just recently sold a nice unit. Grrr...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393806
03/15/13 09:54 AM
03/15/13 09:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
I Live Here
patrick  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

5 speed, 6 speed, ANY kind of OD (well, anything but that factory 4-speed OD anyways).




What's the problem with the factory OD ??? It's fits into your budget ... CHEAP ...




Well... i've been in one, in a pretty similar combo/car than i'm trying to build here, and i just did not like the gear spread. That said, if i get this rig running, and later find one that will bolt right in, i'll probably try it out. But i just dont think its much ov a performance transmission with that gearing.

Plus... i'm still pretty choked that i just recently sold a nice unit. Grrr...




if you use a fast ramp, moderate duration, wide LSA cam, the wide gear spreads isn't as much of an issue. narrow LSA's maximize peak torque at the expense of wide powerband. wide LSA cams sacrafice peak torque for wider torque curve....take 2 cams identical, but with different LSA's....the narrow one (say, a 106 LSA, like the whiplash cam) might give and extra 10-20lb ft of peak torque at ~4000 RPM, but above the torque peak, the torque curve falls off faster, and it may be down 10-20lb-ft at 6000 RPM compared to a cam with a 112LSA, like the Voodoo cams...the wider, flatter torque curve will be more forgiving of wider gear ratios, IMHO....


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: patrick] #1393807
03/15/13 12:06 PM
03/15/13 12:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,408
Kalispell Mt.
H
HotRodDave Offline
I Live Here
HotRodDave  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,408
Kalispell Mt.
The voo-doo cam lobes will work with chevy lifter diameters, just because they don't use that exact lobe on a chevy cam does not mean they are not chevy style lobes. Just look at the how fast they lift VS duration is on those lobes, they fall right between two chevy cam lobes in both lift and duration.

Patrick is correct, the narrow LSA is gonna suck all the fun out of the engine, either one.

Just to clarify I would use what I had even if it was just 383 stuff, even though I know the 5.9 magnum would be a better package.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: HotRodDave] #1393808
03/15/13 02:10 PM
03/15/13 02:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
I Live Here
patrick  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
Quote:

The voo-doo cam lobes will work with chevy lifter diameters, just because they don't use that exact lobe on a chevy cam does not mean they are not chevy style lobes. Just look at the how fast they lift VS duration is on those lobes, they fall right between two chevy cam lobes in both lift and duration.

Patrick is correct, the narrow LSA is gonna suck all the fun out of the engine, either one.

Just to clarify I would use what I had even if it was just 383 stuff, even though I know the 5.9 magnum would be a better package.




actually, Harold from Ultradyne did the Voodoo cams for Lunati, and he's claimed that the chrysler ones use a .904" lifter diameter specific lobe....


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393809
03/15/13 04:51 PM
03/15/13 04:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,665
Milwaukee, WI
Prince_Valiant Offline
top fuel
Prince_Valiant  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,665
Milwaukee, WI
for fwiw, my first version of my Valiant was an economical and quick car using the 4 speed OD that it came w/ from the factory.

Nothing wild...basic 9:1 360 w/ the MP purple shaft .450/.455 cam. Heads were stock w/ 3 angle valve job, hedman headers, eddy performer intake, holley single feed 600cfm vacuum secondary carb, MP electronic ignition w/ orange box and accel high voltage coil.

Powered through a Ram clutch and the 4 speed O/D through an 8 1/4 rear w/ 2.94 gears.

GREAT driving car with enough mid range to pull through the wide gear spacing and the tall gearing. Cruised along at 70mph at ~ 2000rpm.

Ran 14.2's all day, great pull out of the hole w/ the 3.09 first gear. Driven very conservatively it was easy to get 20+mpg, with my best ever being a 200 mile trip on the hwy avg 25mpg. The tired 318 that preceded it only did a best of 24mpg on the same route a year before


1979 Dodge Lil' Red Express - 360 rwhp, 13.2 @ 103mph
1968 Coronet: 318, 2.76, 15.2 @ 92mph! (SOLD)
1976 Valiant: 360, 3.90, 12.90 @ 106 (SOLD)
1989 Shelby CSX #500/500
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Prince_Valiant] #1393810
03/16/13 02:18 AM
03/16/13 02:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 653
montana
P
pjc360 Offline
mopar
pjc360  Offline
mopar
P

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 653
montana
I'd go with the 360 magnum, Roller cam, more efficient heads. Better fuel mileage, cheaper parts, not by much but still a little cheaper vs a 383. I love my 360 magnum been a solid engine for me.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: pjc360] #1393811
03/16/13 06:32 AM
03/16/13 06:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
I Live Here
gdonovan  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
Quote:

I'd go with the 360 magnum, Roller cam, more efficient heads. Better fuel mileage, cheaper parts, not by much but still a little cheaper vs a 383. I love my 360 magnum been a solid engine for me.




One factor being ignored is the roller cam- I'm sold after playing around with the 5.9 in my Duster that a modern roller cam is THE only way to go.

I'm old school who has used a dozen or so purple shaft cams to good effect but blown away with what you can get away with with a good roller. There is no way in hell you can make the same lobe with a flat tappet cam that you can make with a roller.

My Duster is just as happy lugging along at 1500 RPM in OD as it is winding out at 6000 RPM.

That being said I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is- The OP looks to me has already made up his mind before posting and has all 383 parts and no magnum parts.

Drop the 383 in and move on.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: HotRodDave] #1393812
03/16/13 03:12 PM
03/16/13 03:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
G
goldmember Offline
master
goldmember  Offline
master
G

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
Quote:

The voo-doo cam lobes will work with chevy lifter diameters, just because they don't use that exact lobe on a chevy cam does not mean they are not chevy style lobes. Just look at the how fast they lift VS duration is on those lobes, they fall right between two chevy cam lobes in both lift and duration.

Patrick is correct, the narrow LSA is gonna suck all the fun out of the engine, either one.

Just to clarify I would use what I had even if it was just 383 stuff, even though I know the 5.9 magnum would be a better package.


The voodoo mopar cams do not work with chevy or ford lifters,they are a little safer(farther from the lifter edge by design) but not useable without the .904 lifter. Small lobes are fine with wide lsa's,your not going for power just a mild driver. When you put enough lobe in one you will need to tighten the lsa so as not to make a pooch.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: goldmember] #1393813
07/04/13 06:08 AM
07/04/13 06:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
Swears too much
Pale_Roader  Offline OP
Swears too much

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Zombie thread... back from the dead!



Here is the plan: gonna toss that lowdeck junk in the car and use it for as long as i have to. I may try a different cam, i may not. Quite frankly, the difference between a suggested cam (like the Voodoo) and the one i had planned aint gonna be a deal-breaker... they're both gonna suck for mileage. I refuse to use a stock sized cam like an MP cam, or any cam that was designed 30 years ago, or by Chevy guys.

But the root idea here is (once the car is out and driving with the 383) to now get that Magnum 360 in the car as soon as possible. Driving around in this or that, reading voraciously since the last post, and seeing the price ov gas go up another 10¢ has made my mind. I want the smallest most powerful (non-boost or NOS) engine possible. Ford has the lock here, but i'll have to do with a 360 for now.

That magazine build (450HP Magnum 360) has me very intrigued, so i'll collect parts for that combo as i drive. Down the road, the REAL plan will be to actually build an engine... a nice tight-quench light-internal 318 Magnum... with the Edelbrock Magnum heads. Should be good for 400HP+ and still get me a few provinces over at speed without a mortgage.

The cool thing about a small efficient engine is that when you're pinched... if the car is light enough and geared decently (OD plus decent final gears) you can part-throttle the thing and save a LOT ov gas over the best-combo'd big block. It takes a modern design... and for that i'm utterly sold on the Magnum. Too bad Dodge never made a 281cid world-beater like Ford did... (and no, i dont want the 4.7 SOHC).

Been a cool thread. Too bad Dulcich never got back to me...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393814
07/04/13 09:58 AM
07/04/13 09:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 931
D
dulcich Offline
super stock
dulcich  Offline
super stock
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 931
P Roader, I must have missed it. What were you asking? Always liked your threads.
dulcich

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: dulcich] #1393815
07/04/13 10:49 AM
07/04/13 10:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
again, $ for $ a 383 will stomp a 360 or any SB build.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1393816
07/04/13 02:59 PM
07/04/13 02:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245
Between a rock & a hard place
C
cudadoug Offline
master
cudadoug  Offline
master
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245
Between a rock & a hard place
Quote:

again, $ for $ a 383 will stomp a 360 or any SB build.




MAYBE in OEM form. M A Y B E. But "any SB build"???? Slow down there before you hurt yourself...LOL!

But just for grins, let's see all of the fast 360's and 383's and compare...


Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: cudadoug] #1393817
07/04/13 05:04 PM
07/04/13 05:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

Quote:

again, $ for $ a 383 will stomp a 360 or any SB build.




MAYBE in OEM form. M A Y B E. But "any SB build"???? Slow down there before you hurt yourself...LOL!

But just for grins, let's see all of the fast 360's and 383's and compare...






yeah? $ for $ so you drop 5k into a 360 and I'll drop 5k into a 383 and I'll spot you a light or 3. You can even run an A-body if you like.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1393818
07/04/13 08:26 PM
07/04/13 08:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
Swears too much
Pale_Roader  Offline OP
Swears too much

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

again, $ for $ a 383 will stomp a 360 or any SB build.




MAYBE in OEM form. M A Y B E. But "any SB build"???? Slow down there before you hurt yourself...LOL!

But just for grins, let's see all of the fast 360's and 383's and compare...






yeah? $ for $ so you drop 5k into a 360 and I'll drop 5k into a 383 and I'll spot you a light or 3. You can even run an A-body if you like.




Hey now... if you guys are going to turn this into a 360 vs 383 bench race, at least keep the strokers out ov it. I'd even say keep the aftermarket blocks out too...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: dulcich] #1393819
07/04/13 08:30 PM
07/04/13 08:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
Swears too much
Pale_Roader  Offline OP
Swears too much

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Quote:

P Roader, I must have missed it. What were you asking? Always liked your threads.
dulcich




Oh, i didn't have one. You just asked about my combo in your last post. I thought maybe you were going somewhere with that.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393820
07/04/13 08:46 PM
07/04/13 08:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,074
st.cloud fl
D
d-150 Offline
Smarter than a 5th grader?
d-150  Offline
Smarter than a 5th grader?
D

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,074
st.cloud fl
My opinion would be roller 360 aluminum heads edelbrock intake 10.5 compression.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: d-150] #1393821
07/04/13 08:48 PM
07/04/13 08:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,074
st.cloud fl
D
d-150 Offline
Smarter than a 5th grader?
d-150  Offline
Smarter than a 5th grader?
D

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,074
st.cloud fl
But 440 different story

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393822
07/05/13 10:52 PM
07/05/13 10:52 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
master
451Mopar  Offline
master

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
Stock vs stock, I'd take the 360 Magnum. Mildly modified, I think I would still take the Magnum for cost reasons. Highly modified, I'd take the 383.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393823
07/06/13 01:04 AM
07/06/13 01:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn Offline
pro stock
CompSyn  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
A lot of it comes down to personal preference irregardless of tech.

I know for me some of the discussion comes down to the body type the engine is going into. For example I prefer to see Big Blocks under the hood of B and E-Bodies. Small blocks suit A-Bodies just fine. Sure one could argue AAR and T/A E-Bodies but those are more of a rare novelty than anything in my view.

That said, I’m a Big Block guy, and if I was given the choice between even a 360 and 361, I’d go with the Big Block hands down. So what, it weighs more, don’t care, I prefer the Big Block design over the small block. Again, just preference.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393824
07/06/13 09:23 AM
07/06/13 09:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

again, $ for $ a 383 will stomp a 360 or any SB build.




MAYBE in OEM form. M A Y B E. But "any SB build"???? Slow down there before you hurt yourself...LOL!

But just for grins, let's see all of the fast 360's and 383's and compare...






yeah? $ for $ so you drop 5k into a 360 and I'll drop 5k into a 383 and I'll spot you a light or 3. You can even run an A-body if you like.




Hey now... if you guys are going to turn this into a 360 vs 383 bench race, at least keep the strokers out ov it. I'd even say keep the aftermarket blocks out too...




I'll still take the 383.. especially if you are talking junk yard builds I'll take a 383 w/ ported 915 heads (or 516 w/ bigger valves) old school 509 cam, Torker II intake, headers and a rebuilt old holley DP. bang the gears at 6800

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