Quote:

---

If the motor isn't together, it's way easier to do it with the crank in a bare block.

When I do it with an assembled block I mark the damper every 45 degrees, draw a circle on a piece of paper and write your readings in the corresponding points. It's then easier to figure what has to move where. Start at the top with the indicator zeroed. mark your readings as + or - from then on. Remember that you only have to move the housing HALF the variance to make it even i.e. If you are 0 at the top and -.014 at the bottom, you only have to move the housing .007 to have it dead on (you should be so lucky!!)

---

Quote:

---

The readings are 0 top and -.016 bottom. Left side was -.008 and right -.009.

---

Quote:

---

The readings are 0 top and -.016 bottom. Left side was -.008 and right -.009.

---

Quote:

---

get the RobbMC adjustable dowels, it will make the alignment so much easier

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

get the RobbMC adjustable dowels, it will make the alignment so much easier

---

ah bullsh!t !!!

How hard can it be ... he's virtually dead on side to side and out .008 up and down. This doesn't take a rocket scientist, a bag of cash and fancy gadgets to fix !!!

---

Quote:

---

I needed several other transmission related items so I just ordered a set of offset pins from Brewers.
Hopefully get this thing all lined up and back in the car. It has not been on the road since the early '80s!

---

Quote:

---

I would check the parallel of the mating surface of the bellhousing first, I had mine dead nuts at .002 tir and found my bell was not parallel so I had to put in a shim between the block and bell. When I did that, it totally screwed my number and I had to start over again. ....Tim

---

Excellent point.

Quote:

---

I would check the parallel of the mating surface of the bellhousing first, I had mine dead nuts at .002 tir and found my bell was not parallel so I had to put in a shim between the block and bell. When I did that, it totally screwed my number and I had to start over again. I tried the lakewoods and wound up drilling and slide hammering them out. I finally just ordered the Robbmc ones and within a short period of time after I got them it was within book spec.
Tim

---

Quote:

---

Because you will be measuring closer to the center of the circle,not .008 off center.It will still be centered l to r the same but the number will be a few thou different

---

Quote:

---

As for John having it surfaced ... another instance of him needlessly spending someone else's money. Yes, by all means check the runout, but if it is out of whack its easily resolved with shims cut from feeler gauges or pop cans instead of dishing out $100 to have it surfaced.

---

Quote:

---

Pop can, beer can, piece of steel roofing , what does it matter if it works. My question as I have never heard of machining the bell housing to be parallel with the block, which surface gets re-surfaced ? the block side or the transmission side. I think a person can micro a project to death trying to get something perfect when there is tolerance that is acceptable .

---

Quote:

---

I could not get my set up adjusted so that the indicator was fully inside the bore but the part that contacts the bore is as close to dead center as I could get it. Does the set up not look right?

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I could not get my set up adjusted so that the indicator was fully inside the bore but the part that contacts the bore is as close to dead center as I could get it. Does the set up not look right?

---

Your setup is fine. Maybe one in 50 people will have a dial indicator and stand that will actually fit inside that hole! So the indicator is at a slight angle ... big deal, as long as it stays that way throughout the entire travel around the hole it doesn't matter.

And John, the proper surface to machine would be the trans mounting face, not the block face. The main reason being that less material would have to come off but also there would be a good chance of cracking an iron housing if it is taken off the block face.

---

Quote:

---

I would have run it up to the machine shop and had them surface it .

Also that brings up a good point , the picture the OP put up shows his dial indicator is not inside the bore of the bellhousing ... at least it looks that way ??? but the picture is small ... if that is the case he isn't really getting an accurate reading...

but probably close enough for a caveman ...

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I would have run it up to the machine shop and had them surface it .

Also that brings up a good point , the picture the OP put up shows his dial indicator is not inside the bore of the bellhousing ... at least it looks that way ??? but the picture is small ... if that is the case he isn't really getting an accurate reading...

but probably close enough for a caveman ...

---

I could not get my set up adjusted so that the indicator was fully centered in the bore but it is inside the bore. The picture was taken looking slightly down and from the left. The part that contacts the bore is as close to dead center as I could get it. Does the set up not look right?

---

How can you be plus on both the left and right? Did you zero the dial indicator? I checked mine every 45* and could watch it go from - to + back to - or 0 depending on the position. Tim

---

It depends on Ma Mopar to make them that way I've seen them like that, it depends on where you start your readings at to what readings comes off of the indicator

Quote:

---

I set it at zero at the top. The way it was explained, deflection to to the right of zero was negative and to the left of zero was positive. All of my deflections were to the right. As the tech in the video explained (and assuming he is correct), I would need to move the bellhousing downward to get it within tolerances.

---

Quote:

---

The bell housing needs to be attached with all of it's fasteners & torqued properly before checking runout and squareness. It makes a BIG difference!!!!!

All mating surfaces should be bare metal with no burrs

If you ever wonder why some cars are faster than others...it's in the details....

---

I couldn't believe how much paint was on both surfaces when I went to put them together. It all adds up. I scraped them down and just barely dusted the bellhousing and block plate with paint and a little light grease on the block so they wouldn't rust.

Quote:

---

I have been thinking again on the alignment question also. I don't see that the block surface would be off at all. As for the bell housing, maybe the stock aluminum might be contorted after 40 years and have either block facing or the transmission facing out of whack. I have the tools to check it but ain't gona do it. Indexing the center is good enough.

---

Quote:

---

...Installed the dowels so that the bell housing moved downward .007 and my runout was no more than .002 top to bottom and within .001 side to side...

---

You moved the bellhousing down? From your initial readings I would have thought you would move it up. With a '0' at the top and '-16' at the bottom, to get a reading in the negative direction the bell has to be moving away from the dial.

But your final numbers are right on the money. 0.002 top to bottom is 0.001 off center and starting out with 0.008 off center, 0.007 dowels gives you 0.001 off center. Likewise with the side readings, they haven't changed. Congratulations! Next time it'll be easier.

Quote:

---

ok, my turn. i set the dial indicator and then turned the crank 90 deg each time. set the indicator at 0 at 6:00, and these were my readings the first time around:

0
.014
.001
-.012

did the setup again for out of round and got:

0
.012
.002
-.013

so, i have some .007 offset dowels. do i wait and get some .014's or do i just go for the .007? that will put me within range. FSM says .008, and the Robmc dowels I have say .010.

what would you do?

---

Okay, if I understand what you did, bottom = 0, left = .012, top= .002, right = -.013. TIR vertically is 0.002, off center is 0.001, no change necessary. TIR horizontally is .025, off center is .0125. The 0.014 dowels would get you within about 0.0015 off center, the 0.010 dowels within about .0025 off center. I'd use the 0.014 choice. But I'm anal.

Quote:

---

Okay, if I understand what you did, bottom = 0, left = .012, top= .002, right = -.013. TIR vertically is 0.002, off center is 0.001, no change necessary. TIR horizontally is .025, off center is .0125. The 0.014 dowels would get you within about 0.0015 off center, the 0.010 dowels within about .0025 off center. I'd use the 0.014 choice. But I'm anal.

---

i think anality wins out here. i agree. i may as well go for it and get it as close as possible, and yes, if i also understand things correctly, what you have stated above is correct.

well, only one more week while i wait for parts!

until the next snafu, that is!

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

...Installed the dowels so that the bell housing moved downward .007 and my runout was no more than .002 top to bottom and within .001 side to side...

---

You moved the bellhousing down? From your initial readings I would have thought you would move it up. With a '0' at the top and '-16' at the bottom, to get a reading in the negative direction the bell has to be moving away from the dial.

But your final numbers are right on the money. 0.002 top to bottom is 0.001 off center and starting out with 0.008 off center, 0.007 dowels gives you 0.001 off center. Likewise with the side readings, they haven't changed. Congratulations! Next time it'll be easier.

---

Quote:

---

All my pains of alignment checking issues have been
Simplified ..!

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Okay, if I understand what you did, bottom = 0, left = .012, top= .002, right = -.013. TIR vertically is 0.002, off center is 0.001, no change necessary. TIR horizontally is .025, off center is .0125. The 0.014 dowels would get you within about 0.0015 off center, the 0.010 dowels within about .0025 off center. I'd use the 0.014 choice. But I'm anal.

---

i think anality wins out here. i agree. i may as well go for it and get it as close as possible, and yes, if i also understand things correctly, what you have stated above is correct.

well, only one more week while i wait for parts!

until the next snafu, that is!

---

Quote:

---

My clutch shop in rochester here said that
Many bellhousings have been decked perfectly flat by machine shops. But not much to shave off before causing other problems.
If youre block is not square , then either you should reblueprint
Or i guess shim ..

---

Quote:

---

I'd be curious to know what machine the average automotive machine shop would use to end-mill a block. Likewise, I'd like to know what the fixture to hold it looks like since you'd want to register off the main bores.

With all this talk about the block not being square (which I find hard to believe), why hasn't anybody suggested checking it ?!?! It can be done very easily with the dial indicator and magnetic base using a slightly longer arm to get the indicator out to that block surface. This is a hell of a lot less hassle and way cheaper than having sh!t machined on a whim!

---

Quote:

---

I'd be curious to know what machine the average automotive machine shop would use to end-mill a block. Likewise, I'd like to know what the fixture to hold it looks like since you'd want to register off the main bores.

With all this talk about the block not being square (which I find hard to believe), why hasn't anybody suggested checking it ?!?! It can be done very easily with the dial indicator and magnetic base using a slightly longer arm to get the indicator out to that block surface. This is a hell of a lot less hassle and way cheaper than having sh!t machined on a whim!

---

sogtx , I'm sure he is bagging on me ... as usual

The shop that has my block has a Rottler 769 machining center , same or similar to what Chenoworth was using for their "Block in a Bag" fully remachined block offer , and the same that Performance Only caught a load of crap for because he didn't offer it up first .

I'm ASSuMEing they are registering this off the main line , I'll be on the phone in the morning giving them the size of the Crane rollers so they can hone the lifter bore bushing to size so I will make sure that they are doing this off the main line , the mains on this block have been reworked so I want to make sure that the rear of the block is perpendicular to the crank line as the car is a 4 speed and I don't want to have to cut up the nickle deposit return soda cans to correct it ...

The other 383 I just had decked was not square on the decks , and neither was this block, if the decks are off why would, or should, I ASSuME that all the other machined surfaces are square?

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I'd be curious to know what machine the average automotive machine shop would use to end-mill a block. Likewise, I'd like to know what the fixture to hold it looks like since you'd want to register off the main bores.

With all this talk about the block not being square (which I find hard to believe), why hasn't anybody suggested checking it ?!?! It can be done very easily with the dial indicator and magnetic base using a slightly longer arm to get the indicator out to that block surface. This is a hell of a lot less hassle and way cheaper than having sh!t machined on a whim!

---

Not sure what you referred to on a whim , but whatever . Maybe shoddy machine work on a block. ?
I hate setting up the gage, my time is valuable .
And i refuse to use a harbor freight gage.
if referring to my no brainer gage , its saved me hours
And its reliable and cheap.

The prostockers / top fuel guys use it on every round .
A couple thousandths might mean a 10 th . Or more.

it would be nice to machine a bolted fixture to hold the dial indicator.
Magnetic bases do suck . Someone once told me you
Should repeat the procedure 2-3 times to make
Sure it bolts together the same way each time .
A little paint on the mating surfaces might throw it off.

I guess a good machine shop would be able to square a block
Or Anything up , but i guess off the crank is probably
The truest measure to gage off.
I guess thats why some guys
Run remarkable times , some have all the hp in the
World and run crap . Some clutches and pilot bearings last years , some only a couple .

---

I went and bought a long bolt, removed one of my flywheel bolts, and threaded it in to mount my dial indicator. Those wonderful magnetic bases kept moving on the flywheel surface. I then used hose clamps and secured one of the "arms" that came with the dial idicator to it so that nothing moved and then got some real readings. It didn't take long once I got this accomplished and had real readings I could trust.

Quote:

---

I'd be curious to know what machine the average automotive machine shop would use to end-mill a block. Likewise, I'd like to know what the fixture to hold it looks like since you'd want to register off the main bores.

With all this talk about the block not being square (which I find hard to believe), why hasn't anybody suggested checking it ?!?! It can be done very easily with the dial indicator and magnetic base using a slightly longer arm to get the indicator out to that block surface. This is a hell of a lot less hassle and way cheaper than having sh!t machined on a whim!

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I'd be curious to know what machine the average automotive machine shop would use to end-mill a block. Likewise, I'd like to know what the fixture to hold it looks like since you'd want to register off the main bores.

With all this talk about the block not being square (which I find hard to believe), why hasn't anybody suggested checking it ?!?! It can be done very easily with the dial indicator and magnetic base using a slightly longer arm to get the indicator out to that block surface. This is a hell of a lot less hassle and way cheaper than having sh!t machined on a whim!

---

Another Rottler user here. On the F-68A it's a simple operation and they index off the cranks and cam centerlines for parallel to the crank, and have the perfectly-perpendicular-to-base 1.5" thick end plate. Errors in timing cover and bellhousing machinging are just as common as deck height, mains, and lifter bore issues. A good shop (nevermind a great shop) will have equipment that can do this easily. IMO an "average" shop should be avoided unless you have better than "average" luck.

---

Just had this done in a Rottler 69 , block was originally done in a CNC , I assume Rottler ??? the bellhousing surface was off .012 on my 69 383 HP block.

Guess I could have just used a soda can to fix that