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4 speed bell housing alignment questions #1392781 02/24/13 01:54 PM 02/24/13 01:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon M moparmedic OP super stock
moparmedic OP super stock M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon	My 70 Challenger is my first 4 speed car and I am reading a lot of stuff about bellhousing alignment in the shop manual and in the clutch kit I got. Anyone have any tips on getting this right the first time? Is it common to have to get the offset dowel pins and all that? Good pictures would help, the shop manual isn't as clear as I would like, or maybe it is and I don't quite understand it. 1968 Coronet 1968 Charger 1966 A100 Pickup 1967 Barracuda 1970 Challenger 1972 Challenger 1973 Barracuda 2021 Ram 2500

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392782 02/24/13 02:13 PM 02/24/13 02:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 18,157 Mass DAYCLONA I Live Here
DAYCLONA I Live Here Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 18,157 Mass	While most just throw the factory stuff together, as the tolerances are that "loose", it doesn't hurt to check the runout of the components involved, and improve upon their fit and performance, mock up your stock bell, or the bell your using, and indicate the bore opening in relation to the crankshaft, check crankshaft endplay to see if that's an issue for your current engine, run an SFI approved flywheel, toss the factory flywheel,...check to see if your crank is drilled for a bushing?, if not, it bearing time, and trimming of the input shaft...other items that always need addressing is the factory Z bar set-up, lots of slop and alignment issues,that can be eliminated... I'm sure others will chime in to help, don't hesitate to post questions or ideas/thoughts Mike

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: DAYCLONA] #1392783 02/24/13 02:23 PM 02/24/13 02:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	What Mike said, Have someone help you setup/dial indicate it & post what you get for runout. I wouldn't think the shop manual would have detailed info on that. Not needed in every case but you are at that point so I'd bite the bullet & do what you need to do to get it checked. then you know you're good & the peace of mind is worth it live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392784 02/24/13 02:29 PM 02/24/13 02:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,123 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,123 Bend,OR USA	You need a dial indicator with a magnetic base, you put the indicator attached to the base in the center of the flywheel, no clutch yet , and set the indicator up so the stem rides inside the bell housing register and then turn the crankshaft over while reading the dial indicator BTW, it helps to have two people to do this Trying to find which way the out of round is, is the hard part PM me if you want Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392785 02/24/13 02:32 PM 02/24/13 02:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A.	Is it an original 4 speed car ? If so do you know if it is the original bellhousing and engine ? the original bellhousing and engine were machined together . That said it would be a good idea to check the runout and correct it , DO NOT use the lakewood or MP offset dowels , they are FORD dowels and do not fit properly , plus once you hammer it in you can't spin them . RobbMc sells offset dowels , if you need them use them .

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: Cab_Burge] #1392786 02/24/13 02:34 PM 02/24/13 02:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 637 SoMd, USA 1 135sohc mopar
135sohc mopar 1 Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 637 SoMd, USA	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS4H4oImDhE First 10 minutes or so the video goes over alignment of the bellhousing-engine. its for a nv4500/cummins but the idea is the same anyways.

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: JohnRR] #1392787 02/24/13 03:52 PM 02/24/13 03:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon M moparmedic OP super stock
moparmedic OP super stock M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon	Good tips, thanks guys! I do have a magnetic base dial indicator. I will get it set up and check and post results today. Yes the car is an original 4 speed car but the engine is not original to the car and I am not sure about the bellhousing. It was sitting in the trunk when I bought the car. 1968 Coronet 1968 Charger 1966 A100 Pickup 1967 Barracuda 1970 Challenger 1972 Challenger 1973 Barracuda 2021 Ram 2500

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392788 02/24/13 04:33 PM 02/24/13 04:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,861 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,861 Ontario, Canada	If the motor isn't together, it's way easier to do it with the crank in a bare block. When I do it with an assembled block I mark the damper every 45 degrees, draw a circle on a piece of paper and write your readings in the corresponding points. It's then easier to figure what has to move where. Start at the top with the indicator zeroed. mark your readings as + or - from then on. Remember that you only have to move the housing HALF the variance to make it even i.e. If you are 0 at the top and -.014 at the bottom, you only have to move the housing .007 to have it dead on (you should be so lucky!!)

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: Stanton] #1392789 02/24/13 07:28 PM 02/24/13 07:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,123 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,123 Bend,OR USA	Quote: If the motor isn't together, it's way easier to do it with the crank in a bare block. When I do it with an assembled block I mark the damper every 45 degrees, draw a circle on a piece of paper and write your readings in the corresponding points. It's then easier to figure what has to move where. Start at the top with the indicator zeroed. mark your readings as + or - from then on. Remember that you only have to move the housing HALF the variance to make it even i.e. If you are 0 at the top and -.014 at the bottom, you only have to move the housing .007 to have it dead on (you should be so lucky!!) Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: Cab_Burge] #1392790 02/24/13 08:32 PM 02/24/13 08:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon M moparmedic OP super stock
moparmedic OP super stock M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon	The engine is mostly together. This is what I came up with. Does my set up look correct? The readings are 0 top and -.016 bottom. Left side was -.008 and right -.009. I checked it twice. Let me know if that looks and sounds right. Thanks for the help......Frank 7601878-BellhousingAlignment1.jpg (141 downloads) Last edited by moparmedic; 02/24/13 08:44 PM. 1968 Coronet 1968 Charger 1966 A100 Pickup 1967 Barracuda 1970 Challenger 1972 Challenger 1973 Barracuda 2021 Ram 2500

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392791 02/24/13 08:51 PM 02/24/13 08:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,020 Andrews,In. U.S.of A. 6 67_Satellite super stock
67_Satellite super stock 6 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,020 Andrews,In. U.S.of A.	Adjust for the 6o'clock-12o'clock and recheck. The 3 and 9 readings sould change as well when you move the bellhousing up.

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: 67_Satellite] #1392792 02/24/13 09:23 PM 02/24/13 09:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon M moparmedic OP super stock
moparmedic OP super stock M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon	I assume this is outside of acceptable tolerances right? If so,does the bellhousing get adjusted up or down? The video that was linked with similar results said down. I would buy the .007 offset pins correct? 1968 Coronet 1968 Charger 1966 A100 Pickup 1967 Barracuda 1970 Challenger 1972 Challenger 1973 Barracuda 2021 Ram 2500

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392793 02/24/13 10:08 PM 02/24/13 10:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,861 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,861 Ontario, Canada	Quote: The readings are 0 top and -.016 bottom. Left side was -.008 and right -.009. The side to side will not change if you just move the housing up or down - really, how can it ?!? You're out .001 now, you'll still only be out .001 when you move the housing up or down. To fix your problem you need the .007" dowels. PM me and I can help you out there. As for up or down, that depends which way it's out. Your + or - means nothing to us. If the bottom is .016 further from the center then it needs to go up. If its .016 closer then it needs to go down. Either way you need the .007 dowels and when you install them you'll know soon enough which way it had to go. If you did it wrong they're easily turned with a screwdriver.

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392794 02/24/13 11:24 PM 02/24/13 11:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,702 North Dakota 6PakBee I Live Here
6PakBee I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,702 North Dakota	Quote: The readings are 0 top and -.016 bottom. Left side was -.008 and right -.009. The left and right setting are nearly the same, difference is 0.001 or the bell centerline is off 0.0005 left to right. Don't try to change this. The difference between top and bottom is 0.016 or the bell centerline is off 0.008 to the bottom. 0.007 offset dowels should put you right on the money. "We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: 6PakBee] #1392795 02/25/13 12:00 AM 02/25/13 12:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon M moparmedic OP super stock
moparmedic OP super stock M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon	Perfect! Thanks for the help! 1968 Coronet 1968 Charger 1966 A100 Pickup 1967 Barracuda 1970 Challenger 1972 Challenger 1973 Barracuda 2021 Ram 2500

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392796 02/25/13 12:06 AM 02/25/13 12:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska astjp2 master
astjp2 master Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska	Dont waste your money on the fixed dowels, get the RobbMC adjustable dowels, it will make the alignment so much easier. I spent 4 hours and went through 3 sets of fixed dowels to get it right before I got the adjustable ones and WOW, it was a few minutes and I was within .003 TIR and the parallel was within .002 Tim 1941 Taylorcraft 1968 Charger 1994 Wrangler 1998 Wrangler 2008 Kia Rio 2017 Jetta I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: astjp2] #1392797 02/25/13 12:15 AM 02/25/13 12:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,861 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,861 Ontario, Canada	Quote: get the RobbMC adjustable dowels, it will make the alignment so much easier ah bullsh!t !!! How hard can it be ... he's virtually dead on side to side and out .008 up and down. This doesn't take a rocket scientist, a bag of cash and fancy gadgets to fix !!!

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: Stanton] #1392798 02/25/13 02:05 AM 02/25/13 02:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon M moparmedic OP super stock
moparmedic OP super stock M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon	I needed several other transmission related items so I just ordered a set of offset pins from Brewers. Hopefully get this thing all lined up and back in the car. It has not been on the road since the early '80s! Last edited by moparmedic; 02/25/13 02:06 AM. 1968 Coronet 1968 Charger 1966 A100 Pickup 1967 Barracuda 1970 Challenger 1972 Challenger 1973 Barracuda 2021 Ram 2500

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: Stanton] #1392799 02/25/13 02:08 AM 02/25/13 02:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi rowin4 master
rowin4 master Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi	It will be a lot easier doing it on a engine out of the car than in, when I did mine , the car was on a lift and still took awhile . For those of you that are doing the alignment in the car you'll need a crows foot to turn the RobbMc dowel as it is a 2 flat and you can't get your hand up between the floor and bell housing. it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: Stanton] #1392800 02/25/13 11:49 AM 02/25/13 11:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Quote: get the RobbMC adjustable dowels, it will make the alignment so much easier ah bullsh!t !!! How hard can it be ... he's virtually dead on side to side and out .008 up and down. This doesn't take a rocket scientist, a bag of cash and fancy gadgets to fix !!! The Lakewood dowels are .500 , Mopar dowels are .496 , that's .004 oversize then you take the fact that its a press fit hole so those are more than .004 oversize. Unless you ream out the holes in the block the dowels will NOT turn with a screwdriver and you run the potential of cracking the block, more than once I have seen that posted by someone. I've used those dowels ONCE, they DO NOT turn once you hammer them into the block. It's not rocket science , but it also takes a little more than what a caveman with a large rock for a hammer can do ...

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