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Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392801 02/25/13 11:52 AM 02/25/13 11:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A.	Quote: I needed several other transmission related items so I just ordered a set of offset pins from Brewers. Hopefully get this thing all lined up and back in the car. It has not been on the road since the early '80s! Looks like the RobbMC dowels ,I'd put loctite on the set screws for the final assembly.

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: JohnRR] #1392802 02/25/13 12:10 PM 02/25/13 12:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,862 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,862 Ontario, Canada	I just noticed that Mancini's dowels are all Lakewood's. They used to carry the MP dowels that were the correct .496 o.d.. Guess there's no choice but to shell out crazy money for the McRobb's now.

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: Stanton] #1392803 02/25/13 02:10 PM 02/25/13 02:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska astjp2 master
astjp2 master Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska	I would check the parallel of the mating surface of the bellhousing first, I had mine dead nuts at .002 tir and found my bell was not parallel so I had to put in a shim between the block and bell. When I did that, it totally screwed my number and I had to start over again. I tried the lakewoods and wound up drilling and slide hammering them out. I finally just ordered the Robbmc ones and within a short period of time after I got them it was within book spec. Tim 1941 Taylorcraft 1968 Charger 1994 Wrangler 1998 Wrangler 2008 Kia Rio 2017 Jetta I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: astjp2] #1392804 02/25/13 02:30 PM 02/25/13 02:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,703 North Dakota 6PakBee I Live Here
6PakBee I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,703 North Dakota	Quote: I would check the parallel of the mating surface of the bellhousing first, I had mine dead nuts at .002 tir and found my bell was not parallel so I had to put in a shim between the block and bell. When I did that, it totally screwed my number and I had to start over again. ....Tim Excellent point. "We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: astjp2] #1392805 02/25/13 02:42 PM 02/25/13 02:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A.	Quote: I would check the parallel of the mating surface of the bellhousing first, I had mine dead nuts at .002 tir and found my bell was not parallel so I had to put in a shim between the block and bell. When I did that, it totally screwed my number and I had to start over again. I tried the lakewoods and wound up drilling and slide hammering them out. I finally just ordered the Robbmc ones and within a short period of time after I got them it was within book spec. Tim I would have run it up to the machine shop and had them surface it . Also that brings up a good point , the picture the OP put up shows his dial indicator is not inside the bore of the bellhousing ... at least it looks that way ??? but the picture is small ... if that is the case he isn't really getting an accurate reading... but probably close enough for a caveman ...

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: Stanton] #1392806 02/25/13 05:39 PM 02/25/13 05:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,020 Andrews,In. U.S.of A. 6 67_Satellite super stock
67_Satellite super stock 6 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,020 Andrews,In. U.S.of A.	Because you will be measuring closer to the center of the circle,not .008 off center.It will still be centered l to r the same but the number will be a few thou different

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: 67_Satellite] #1392807 02/25/13 06:20 PM 02/25/13 06:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,360 PA 7 70HemiGTX top fuel
70HemiGTX top fuel 7 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,360 PA	I used the Lakewood's to get my new one lined up. I put them in a drill press and used a straight flat piece of metal to hold some very fine sandpaper against it and sanded it down very lightly. Using a caliper to check to see that I didn't remove too much material. Got it down to the size of the factory dowels I took out and with the holes COMPLETELY CLEANED OUT, I greased them a little and slid them in. No problem turning them with a screwdriver. I didn't have time to wait for others to be shipped here so I worked with what I had. I'm sure there are better out there, but I didn't work too hard to make these do the job.

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: 67_Satellite] #1392808 02/25/13 07:54 PM 02/25/13 07:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,862 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,862 Ontario, Canada	Quote: Because you will be measuring closer to the center of the circle,not .008 off center.It will still be centered l to r the same but the number will be a few thou different Hmmm ... you're measuring at the widest point and then shifting it up .007". Do you really think the number will be "a few thou" different? I'll bet you the change doesn't show up on the dial indicator! As for John having it surfaced ... another instance of him needlessly spending someone else's money. Yes, by all means check the runout, but if it is out of whack its easily resolved with shims cut from feeler gauges or pop cans instead of dishing out $100 to have it surfaced.

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: Stanton] #1392809 02/25/13 08:01 PM 02/25/13 08:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A.	Quote: As for John having it surfaced ... another instance of him needlessly spending someone else's money. Yes, by all means check the runout, but if it is out of whack its easily resolved with shims cut from feeler gauges or pop cans instead of dishing out $100 to have it surfaced. I never suggested anyone spend their money needlessly, I just said how I would spend MY. I doubt it would cost $100 to surface the bellhousing, even in the part of the country with high per hr labor charges ... Last edited by JohnRR; 03/01/13 04:30 PM.

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: JohnRR] #1392810 02/25/13 08:29 PM 02/25/13 08:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi rowin4 master
rowin4 master Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi	Pop can, beer can, piece of steel roofing , what does it matter if it works. My question as I have never heard of machining the bell housing to be parallel with the block, which surface gets re-surfaced ? the block side or the transmission side. I think a person can micro a project to death trying to get something perfect when there is tolerance that is acceptable . it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: rowin4] #1392811 02/25/13 09:13 PM 02/25/13 09:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Pop can, beer can, piece of steel roofing , what does it matter if it works. My question as I have never heard of machining the bell housing to be parallel with the block, which surface gets re-surfaced ? the block side or the transmission side. I think a person can micro a project to death trying to get something perfect when there is tolerance that is acceptable . EDIT .. I've had a chance to think about this , it's completely possible that the block could be the cause of the bell being out of parallel and shimming , as much as a half ass way of doing it in my mind is probably the best way to go . Last edited by JohnRR; 03/01/13 04:27 PM.

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: JohnRR] #1392812 02/25/13 11:45 PM 02/25/13 11:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon M moparmedic OP super stock
moparmedic OP super stock M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon	I would have run it up to the machine shop and had them surface it . Also that brings up a good point , the picture the OP put up shows his dial indicator is not inside the bore of the bellhousing ... at least it looks that way ??? but the picture is small ... if that is the case he isn't really getting an accurate reading... but probably close enough for a caveman ... I could not get my set up adjusted so that the indicator was fully centered in the bore but it is inside the bore. The picture was taken looking slightly down and from the left. The part that contacts the bore is as close to dead center as I could get it. Does the set up not look right? 7603621-BellhousingAlignment1.jpg (75 downloads) Last edited by moparmedic; 02/25/13 11:59 PM. 1968 Coronet 1968 Charger 1966 A100 Pickup 1967 Barracuda 1970 Challenger 1972 Challenger 1973 Barracuda 2021 Ram 2500

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392813 02/26/13 12:07 AM 02/26/13 12:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,862 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,862 Ontario, Canada	Quote: I could not get my set up adjusted so that the indicator was fully inside the bore but the part that contacts the bore is as close to dead center as I could get it. Does the set up not look right? Your setup is fine. Maybe one in 50 people will have a dial indicator and stand that will actually fit inside that hole! So the indicator is at a slight angle ... big deal, as long as it stays that way throughout the entire travel around the hole it doesn't matter. And John, the proper surface to machine would be the trans mounting face, not the block face. The main reason being that less material would have to come off but also there would be a good chance of cracking an iron housing if it is taken off the block face.

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: Stanton] #1392814 02/26/13 12:15 AM 02/26/13 12:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon M moparmedic OP super stock
moparmedic OP super stock M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon	Ok, good,that is kind of what I thought, thanks. Last edited by moparmedic; 02/26/13 12:16 AM. 1968 Coronet 1968 Charger 1966 A100 Pickup 1967 Barracuda 1970 Challenger 1972 Challenger 1973 Barracuda 2021 Ram 2500

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: Stanton] #1392815 02/26/13 12:20 AM 02/26/13 12:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi rowin4 master
rowin4 master Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi	Quote: Quote: I could not get my set up adjusted so that the indicator was fully inside the bore but the part that contacts the bore is as close to dead center as I could get it. Does the set up not look right? Your setup is fine. Maybe one in 50 people will have a dial indicator and stand that will actually fit inside that hole! So the indicator is at a slight angle ... big deal, as long as it stays that way throughout the entire travel around the hole it doesn't matter. And John, the proper surface to machine would be the trans mounting face, not the block face. The main reason being that less material would have to come off but also there would be a good chance of cracking an iron housing if it is taken off the block face. Yes his set up is correct. A standard size indicator will not fit inside the hole straight up. The surfacing of the bell housing would be easier to do the transmission face only if the block face was flat. it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392816 02/26/13 12:22 AM 02/26/13 12:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska astjp2 master
astjp2 master Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska	Quote: I would have run it up to the machine shop and had them surface it . Also that brings up a good point , the picture the OP put up shows his dial indicator is not inside the bore of the bellhousing ... at least it looks that way ??? but the picture is small ... if that is the case he isn't really getting an accurate reading... but probably close enough for a caveman ... I could not get my set up adjusted so that the indicator was fully centered in the bore but it is inside the bore. The picture was taken looking slightly down and from the left. The part that contacts the bore is as close to dead center as I could get it. Does the set up not look right? How can you be plus on both the left and right? Did you zero the dial indicator? I checked mine every 45* and could watch it go from - to + back to - or 0 depending on the position. Tim 1941 Taylorcraft 1968 Charger 1994 Wrangler 1998 Wrangler 2008 Kia Rio 2017 Jetta I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: astjp2] #1392817 02/26/13 01:19 AM 02/26/13 01:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,123 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,123 Bend,OR USA	Quote: Quote: I would have run it up to the machine shop and had them surface it . Also that brings up a good point , the picture the OP put up shows his dial indicator is not inside the bore of the bellhousing ... at least it looks that way ??? but the picture is small ... if that is the case he isn't really getting an accurate reading... but probably close enough for a caveman ... I could not get my set up adjusted so that the indicator was fully centered in the bore but it is inside the bore. The picture was taken looking slightly down and from the left. The part that contacts the bore is as close to dead center as I could get it. Does the set up not look right? How can you be plus on both the left and right? Did you zero the dial indicator? I checked mine every 45* and could watch it go from - to + back to - or 0 depending on the position. Tim It depends on Ma Mopar to make them that way I've seen them like that, it depends on where you start your readings at to what readings comes off of the indicator Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: Cab_Burge] #1392818 02/26/13 01:59 AM 02/26/13 01:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,862 Ontario, Canada S Stanton Don't question me!
Stanton Don't question me! S Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 8,862 Ontario, Canada	To be - on both sides just means that he zeroed it at the top and that the bell is pretty much centered side to side. When he puts in the proper dowels and does it again it should only be off by .001 side to side and .001 up and down.

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: Cab_Burge] #1392819 02/26/13 02:00 AM 02/26/13 02:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon M moparmedic OP super stock
moparmedic OP super stock M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon	The results I got were surprisingly similar to the you tube video link that was attached earlier in this thread. Yes, I zeroed the dial indicator at 12 o-clock and called that zero then took a reading at 3, 6, and 9 o-clock. The you tube video showed taking readings more frequently. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS4H4oImDhE Last edited by moparmedic; 02/26/13 02:08 AM. 1968 Coronet 1968 Charger 1966 A100 Pickup 1967 Barracuda 1970 Challenger 1972 Challenger 1973 Barracuda 2021 Ram 2500

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392820 02/26/13 02:11 AM 02/26/13 02:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi rowin4 master
rowin4 master Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi	I have always set the indicator to zero at the lowest reading, by doing that you don't have the + and - readings confusing you. I do the 45 degree, use a marker on the bell housing face, take a 360 reading , do a adjustment , do it again and again and again. wish I had a friend to do the wrench cranking it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead

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