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40 Dodge 4 dr
#139212
10/20/08 05:39 PM
10/20/08 05:39 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Hello, I'm new to the board and I have a few questions. I have a 1940 Dodge 4 door sedan I am customizing. I have every intention of keeping it all mopar as a matter of fact I want to go big block and by big block I mean the srt10 backed by a 6sp tranny.
Should I keep the original spindles and do the ply do upgrade fo disc brakes or should I go with a dakota clip and If I do will it support the added weight a big block will bring to the table. These things are pretty damn heavy to start with Or should I just use the k frame from a cordoba or the like.
Any thoughts, opinions or feedback is helpful.
Thanks,
Steve
Attached are some photos of the car I am starting.
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Re: 40 Dodge 4 dr
#139213
10/20/08 06:24 PM
10/20/08 06:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,992
Escondido, CA. Ron Podsiadly,...
Mopar Ron
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 Hi Steve and welcome to moparts and to the rodders section you are probably going to get a few different and good ideas on what would be best, you will need to deiced what way is best for you and your $$$$ and ability. looking at that picture it looks like you found a very nice and complete start for your project  now personally I would not use the stock frontend nor would I use the volare' style on that car. If you really must keep it all mopar then the dakota frontend is a good choice except for the 6 lug wheels(need to use the 91 and earlier 5 lug rotors) and it is a little wider than the mustang II style frontends but with the right wheels it will work depending on how low you want it when its done. poorboy(gene) has used the dakota frontends in your style car and I am sure he can give you some advice on how that goes.... if it were my car and I was using a V10 I would go with the mustang II style frontend from someone like Fatman and go with the big brake kit, you could either go with stock style springs or coilovers or air bags, I would go with power steering and power brakes too. you will need to move the firewall back to fit the V10 and that will take some of the load off the frontend but the mustang frontend can and will hold up a blown hemi so I dont think you will have a problem. it looks like it will be a fun,fast rod when you get it done and I am sure you can get some good help and ideas here. again welcome to moparts Ron....
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Re: 40 Dodge 4 dr
[Re: Mopar Ron]
#139214
10/20/08 08:39 PM
10/20/08 08:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,534
Freeport IL USA
poorboy
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I'm going to say with going the V10, 6 speed, your original frame is going to be pretty useless! The entire original "X" trans crossmember will have to be removed to clear the V10 and trans and the rear spring setup will be pretty light duty also. You can modify the original frame to upgrade to the MustangII suspension and upgrade the rear suspension, but after installing that much torque, are you really going to want to relie on a nearly 70 year old frame? I'm thinking your going to want a new fabricated frame (at least I would) if you stick with the v10. Now if you were doing a stroker small block or a non-stroker big block, my opinoin would be different. There is a guy over on the HAMB board that does a Dakota based frame that is a real good looking piece, I'll see if I can get his business name, he runs a frame shop. For what its worth, the weight is not the issue, the torque of the V10 is. The old flathead 6 that was originally in your 40 was a heavy weight pig, it and its trans probably weighed in close to what the V10 and the 6 speed weighs. Gene EDIT: The name of the guy on the HAMB board is Elpolcko and a web site to his business is: www.industrialchassisinc.com He has many years working with front suspension and frames. I have met him in person and he is a great guy, though he probably won't know or remember me. lol. Gene
Last edited by poorboy; 10/20/08 09:11 PM.
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Re: 40 Dodge 4 dr
[Re: moparx]
#139216
10/20/08 10:01 PM
10/20/08 10:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace
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...and here's another opinion... the weight issue is a non-issue. As mentioned, the flathead is about the same weight. Most transmissions will be heavier, but not much and in the center of the car. If you meant the car, they were around 3100 stock, so that isn't a factor either. If you are talking a truck V10, that IS heavier.... First, low buck. This will not be the best, and you will give up handling and braking. Not the best way to go with that much power. Stock, low buck clip or IFS kit. You will have to do something major in back too. Second, mid-range. Go with a Dakota swap and upgrade the brakes and springs at both ends. A step up, but still leaving some stuff on the table. There is a guy here that is finalizing a V10 Dakota. Talk to him about what's required. Third, big buck. A custom built frame with HP stuff on all 4 corners. You might look into what a totalled viper donor would cost, and if the suspension and brakes could be incorporated. I know that the wheelbase/drivetrain/driver position will not allow dropping the '40 body on the viper chassis. You will not be able to build it to equal a viper's performance due to weight and center of gravity, but it will be the most balanced car this way. 
Last edited by RodStRace; 10/20/08 10:03 PM.
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Re: 40 Dodge 4 dr
[Re: Flipper1938]
#139218
10/21/08 12:43 AM
10/21/08 12:43 AM
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Anonymous
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To answer your question, I have a buddy that totaled his srt10 truck. The insurance company paid off the truck and I bought the motor and trans from him. Worked out pretty well seeing as how I got it for a decent price. I thought that this would be a great combo, some old school whith some gut wrenching new school. A step beyond the 318,360,440/727 combo and definately not a sbc.
How about boxing the frame and replacing the axle/rear end on the car? Or should I just contact the man with the plan and get my self a new chassis made?
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Re: 40 Dodge 4 dr
#139220
10/21/08 10:36 PM
10/21/08 10:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace
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Quote:
How about boxing the frame and replacing the axle/rear end on the car? Or should I just contact the man with the plan and get my self a new chassis made?
Boxing is for flimsy F@rd frames. Climb under there and take a look. The entire front section is curved and boxed. The center section has a very strong X member. This will probably be in the way of the transmission. The rear section is pretty stout, but may need boxing, depending on what suspension is attached. V-10 torque is not a plaything...
What you can afford is the determining factor, with or without you doing the labor. That truck engine is a heavy lump, and it won't fit the body or chassis without some cutting.
Plan out all aspects, and price stuff out. It may be cool to take a body you have and an engine you got at a good price and toss them together, but it might be better to sell the engine and build the easier combo first. I've only seen maybe a dozen running/driving V-10 rods, and NONE of them were low buck...
Ask the guy that swapped the V10 into the dakota what is needed to get an idea.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=Test&Number=4741360
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Re: 40 Dodge 4 dr
#139221
10/21/08 11:22 PM
10/21/08 11:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,992
Escondido, CA. Ron Podsiadly,...
Mopar Ron
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I think that the original frame is pretty well built and if the X frame was modified and strengthened and a few more cross members were put in That it would work for the hp and torque that the V10 has. I believe that the V10 from the srt10 is the same engine from the viper so it is lighter than the V10 that was offered in the trucks. I still think that a mustang II frontend with HD brakes and PS would be a good setup and some new leaf springs and a 8 3/4 would work pretty good too. or a 4 link rear with coilovers or air ride. think about it they are running 1 ton dually trucks with that setup I'd do it if it was mine   Ron...
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Re: 40 Dodge 4 dr
[Re: Mopar Ron]
#139222
10/22/08 12:38 AM
10/22/08 12:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,534
Freeport IL USA
poorboy
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I don't know Ron, you may be right, but I think the setup you just discribed would scare the heck out of me. Guess being from the midwest, I just have seen way to many of this era Mopars with frames rusted pretty thin. Problem is they rust from the inside out, without a sonic check, don't know how you would know there wasn't a few thin spots. Bet the torque of the V10 would find them pretty quickly.
Put this into perspective. You have to modify the front suspension. You have to modify the center X member. You have to modify the rear suspension, and you want to add a couple extra crossmembers. That leaves what, the rails and the rear crossmember not modified? They are almost 70 years old and have had a lot of years to devolope problems, why take the chance to save a few bucks on a project that won't be cheap to begin with?
I am the King of Cheap. He has saved some money on the drivetrain and the body. By the time he steps up to the Mustang II suspension, whatever rear suspension he gets, and takes the time to set up both ends and modify the center how close will he be to the cost of the whole thing being new and professionally designed? I would at least get some hard numbers, then compair where his abilities to construct the thing and the money spent on a pile of parts come out. Gene
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Re: 40 Dodge 4 dr
[Re: poorboy]
#139223
10/22/08 02:53 AM
10/22/08 02:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,992
Escondido, CA. Ron Podsiadly,...
Mopar Ron
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Gene my assumption is that the frame is solid and rust free, I have been out here in CA a long time and I dont see much rust  your right, if the frame is weak or rusted, I would defiantly build one from scratch. by the looks of the body I figured that the frame would be in good shape. I don't know how much Steve can do himself or what friends can help him with this project. I just figured going with the original frame would be an easier way to go, building one from scratch is a good idea too just a little more costly. Ive done cars both ways, scratch built and putting stuff on stock frames with good results. I just figured if he went with the stock frame he wouldn't have to mess with body mounts  Ron....
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Re: 40 Dodge 4 dr
[Re: Mopar Ron]
#139225
10/22/08 12:43 PM
10/22/08 12:43 PM
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Anonymous
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Thanks for the advice guys, it's all been great. What I'll do is pull the body from the frame and get the frame sonic tested. It's only about $80 or so from a shop down here. If all is well I will use the original frame and box it add a new rear and probably some air ride.
If not I will go the new chassis way. FYI your right ron, the car is pretty rust free. Last time it was tagged was 62, shortly after it was parked in a barn/ storage area and I found it asking about some 4x4 parts for my truck. Picked it up for $250.
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Re: 40 Dodge 4 dr
[Re: Mopar Ron]
#139227
10/22/08 03:03 PM
10/22/08 03:03 PM
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Anonymous
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No I don't mind, I pulled the drive train, ecu, exhuast for $2500. I felt bad giving him that because its worth much more. Low miles too only had about 35k on it before he was ran over by a semi.
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Re: 40 Dodge 4 dr
#139228
10/22/08 08:49 PM
10/22/08 08:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,992
Escondido, CA. Ron Podsiadly,...
Mopar Ron
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Escondido, CA. Ron Podsiadly,...
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Quote:
No I don't mind, I pulled the drive train, ecu, exhuast for $2500. I felt bad giving him that because its worth much more. Low miles too only had about 35k on it before he was ran over by a semi.
Wow less than $3000.00 dollars for car,V10 and 6 speed
GREAT START!!!!!!!!! Ron....
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Re: 40 Dodge 4 dr
#139229
10/22/08 09:08 PM
10/22/08 09:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,534
Freeport IL USA
poorboy
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Quote:
Thanks for the advice guys, it's all been great. What I'll do is pull the body from the frame and get the frame sonic tested. It's only about $80 or so from a shop down here. If all is well I will use the original frame and box it add a new rear and probably some air ride.
If not I will go the new chassis way. FYI your right ron, the car is pretty rust free. Last time it was tagged was 62, shortly after it was parked in a barn/ storage area and I found it asking about some 4x4 parts for my truck. Picked it up for $250.
]
OK, now that was a great deal, and a great price on the engine & trans too. Sounds like you off to a great start and are taking into account what we have experenced. Be sure to keep us posted as you progress, we always like to see these old Mopars progress. The day may be on the horizon that old Mopars may be all thats left. Gene
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Re: 40 Dodge 4 dr
[Re: poorboy]
#139230
10/23/08 12:09 AM
10/23/08 12:09 AM
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Anonymous
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Quote:
The day may be on the horizon that old Mopars may be all thats left. Gene
You are 100 percent correct on that Gene.
It happened with the camaros, mustangs and the cars of the same era. Everyone built one had one or wanted one. Then the cuda's, chargers, roadrunners.... etc. where all that was left and or are hard to find so they became a hot commodity. Which is why you see some of those older mopars go for so much cash people want/ wanted them.
I honestly think we will see alot more mopar old school rides and alot more support and aftermarket products for them. Because people are breaking away from the early chevys and fords like they started too with the camaros, stangs and such. Maybe they want something different or maybe its just the old school mopar's sexy stylings 
Thanks for all the info and thoughts and I'll guarantee I'll have more questions in the future.
I'll take as many pics as I can of the progress I make also.
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Re: 40 Dodge 4 dr
#139231
10/25/08 08:35 PM
10/25/08 08:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 942
Virginia, US
RTDaddy
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super street
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Virginia, US
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I'm in progress on a 41 3 window coupe. While I do not have the "X" frame to deal with, I'm still boxing what is not. A word, a 69 B-body rear is basically a bolt in, there's a guy near here that has a 40 with this set-up. He went the 383 route, kept the stock front, and hung a rack and pinion from some compact on it. It looks scary, I would not try that. I'm planning to do the Volare/Diplomat transverse torsion bar set-up, and going 440/6pack at this point, but if one of the new SRT 6 speeds gets written off  "IF YOU'RE UNDER CONTROL, YOU AIN'T GOING FAST ENOUGH."
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