Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Engine Knocking #1386778
02/13/13 06:25 AM
02/13/13 06:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 597
Maine
P
Pkeel Offline OP
mopar
Pkeel  Offline OP
mopar
P

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 597
Maine
Story: The 1980 has to sit outside for the winter. I told my son to get it running every couple of weeks to keep the battery charged.

Last time he goes out the engine is making the most horrific knocking noise. It is definitely on the top of the engine. I asked a local shop what he thought it might be? His idea is a piece of carbon came loose in the engine. His recommendation, get it running rev it up some and pour a steady stream of ATF fluid into it. He said it should break up the carbon.

Has anyone ever done this? Also, the son is a little disappointed. He was hoping that we might have the chance to rebuild the engine. Something neither he nor I have ever done.

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: Pkeel] #1386779
02/13/13 08:42 AM
02/13/13 08:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
3
360view Offline
Moparts resident spammer
360view  Offline
Moparts resident spammer
3

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
Chrysler sells a $8 spraycan of "Combustion Chamber Conditioner" for removing carbon deposits which has worked well for me.

This sprays a brown foam that contains both water and solvent detergents. You can sprat a bit into a glass jar and watch the foam separate into two liquids.

Last year i used a can of CCC specifically for cleaning out large visible chunks of carbon from the EGR internal passages inside the manifold and it worked faster than i expected.

The instructions call for spraying the CCC into the air intake while the engine is running, but many posters have removed the sparkplugs and sprayed individual cylinders. I did this one cylinder at a time and found that cylinders 7 and 8 on my engine seemed to be the ones that pinged.

If the knocking has continued constantly i would pull the valve covers and inspect rockers, springs, and valve stems.

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: Pkeel] #1386780
02/13/13 12:55 PM
02/13/13 12:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,064
Iowa
76dodgeboy Offline
master
76dodgeboy  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,064
Iowa
Ive done the tranny fluid down the carb. It make LOTS of smoke and you have to be careful cause if fed to much and engine dies durring you can hydrolock the motor. Its easy though. just ramp the rpms up with your hand and pour it down the carb but conservatively Its possible it could be a lifter aswell. Your battery can still die. The motor needs a load for it to actually give a good charge. Ive had a few die from starting and revving every week or so. Find a engine locally on CL or the jy to rebuild together

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: 76dodgeboy] #1386781
02/13/13 01:19 PM
02/13/13 01:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 452
Coeur d Alene, Idaho
J
jimbob101 Offline
mopar
jimbob101  Offline
mopar
J

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 452
Coeur d Alene, Idaho
Probably a lifter that lost it's prime from sitting too long, probably let it warm up and I've used some ATF in the engine oil to quiet down the lifter and help pump it up.

-J

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: jimbob101] #1386782
02/13/13 02:31 PM
02/13/13 02:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
D
dogdays Offline
I Live Here
dogdays  Offline
I Live Here
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
Once test started a long-sitting 383. It had a terrible knock which turned out to be a stuck valve.
R.

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: dogdays] #1386783
02/14/13 06:57 AM
02/14/13 06:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,043
State of Confusion
hp383 Offline
Just a normal tag again
hp383  Offline
Just a normal tag again

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,043
State of Confusion
Seafoam poured through the carb also works. It to will make some smoke but not as much as trans fluid and it smells better.

The lifter as mentioned is also a possibility.

Some Rislone added to the oil may help keep them primed and helps clean too

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: Pkeel] #1386784
02/14/13 07:51 AM
02/14/13 07:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 597
Maine
P
Pkeel Offline OP
mopar
Pkeel  Offline OP
mopar
P

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 597
Maine
I will give the ATF a try. I can't figure out why, but the kid wants to see the smoke.

The Knocking started all at once which is why the mechanic thought maybe carbon. I did have to take the intake manifold off when I purchased the truck to clean out the carbon, so I am hoping this will solve it.

Thanks for the help. I will do it Saturday and let you know how it works out.

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: Pkeel] #1386785
02/14/13 07:59 AM
02/14/13 07:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,064
Iowa
76dodgeboy Offline
master
76dodgeboy  Offline
master

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,064
Iowa
I did it a few times just to see it smoke too
I think hooking up some sort of Drip system or adding some to the gas would make for an Ultimate Sleeper especially with electric cutouts. After lined up turn off the drip and open the cutouts
They'd be like WT# That smoke problem fixed itself pretty quik and it sound mean as H&ll and you just look over and

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: 360view] #1386786
02/14/13 08:39 AM
02/14/13 08:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
3
360view Offline
Moparts resident spammer
360view  Offline
Moparts resident spammer
3

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
The CCC spray makes a huge clould of smoke even on lightly carbon-ed cylinders.

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: 76dodgeboy] #1386787
02/14/13 09:41 AM
02/14/13 09:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 597
Maine
P
Pkeel Offline OP
mopar
Pkeel  Offline OP
mopar
P

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 597
Maine
We were thinking about a JY engine, but I don't know if I would recognize one that is worth redoing. Noah, my son, also keeps telling me we need a 440!

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: Pkeel] #1386788
02/14/13 10:21 AM
02/14/13 10:21 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
S
scratchnfotraction Offline
I Live Here
scratchnfotraction  Offline
I Live Here
S

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
Quote:

We were thinking about a JY engine, but I don't know if I would recognize one that is worth redoing. Noah, my son, also keeps telling me we need a 440!




you should give the boy what he wants so he wont get rice fever.

is it lifter tapping or lifters rattling??

sound like something banging around in a cyl?

idle smooth or run ruff?

is it cold there right now? how thick is the oil cold start up?

what kinda oil pressure?

knocking comes from down low not up top. IMO

a cheap JY engine is a good start for the first time. just tear it down and inspect everything then put it back together.

I have pulled a lot of used engines apart then do a valve job, re-ring/bearings for the bottom end,oil pump,core plugs,gaskets.

change the cam and home port the heads then add bolt ons.

done it many times under 600 bux and have had more fun with less.

want smoke??? follow the directions on the can of seafoam.

ATF added in with the gas,will lube the upper cyl,cut down on sparknock,smokes a little.

but it will also get a build up of ash/carbon on the cyl head combustion chamber. it will also build up on the plugs.

best to use water to decarbon it,use a spary bottle on mist and spary the heck out of it at idle only rev it if it stumbles. that will steam clean the cyls.

to much of any solid liquid will hydro lock it so go slow adding it in.

I like seafoam or the BG upper cyl lube or mopar upper cyl lube/cleaner.

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1386789
02/14/13 10:59 AM
02/14/13 10:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 597
Maine
P
Pkeel Offline OP
mopar
Pkeel  Offline OP
mopar
P

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 597
Maine
No fear of Ricer syndrome. He is a mopar kid now. We went to Carlisle about 5 years ago, he's been hooked ever since.

I've thought about a 360 instead of the 318. If I understand correctly it would just about bolt in.

It sounds like something loose in the cylinder. It doesn't really sound like lifters to me. It is very loud. I say it is up top because when I went under to listen it was quieter under the engine than over it.

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: Pkeel] #1386790
02/14/13 11:50 AM
02/14/13 11:50 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
S
scratchnfotraction Offline
I Live Here
scratchnfotraction  Offline
I Live Here
S

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
yep 360 bolts right in with the correct balance TC or flywheel.

everything from the 318 can be used sept for the oil pan. that would need to be a 360 rear sump.

maybe a few washers on driver side motormount bolt to shim it up some.

talk with the JY,tell them you want a good runner and that you are at least re-gasketing.

leave the long block together and replace gaskets. look in the springs and see if it would need the valve seals replaced.

shoot for a newer engine so it comes with a roller cam block.

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1386791
02/14/13 12:34 PM
02/14/13 12:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,043
State of Confusion
hp383 Offline
Just a normal tag again
hp383  Offline
Just a normal tag again

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,043
State of Confusion
Quote:

to much of any solid liquid will hydro lock it so go slow adding it in.




OK so no ice down the carb then...


Join the Penguin Liberation Front!!
Stop the Hippo Occupation!
Re: Engine Knocking [Re: hp383] #1386792
02/14/13 01:11 PM
02/14/13 01:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
D
dogdays Offline
I Live Here
dogdays  Offline
I Live Here
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
If you want a sweet junkyard engine, go to the yard, look for a maroon or dark blue or silver Fifth Avenue with the half-vinyl padded roof, '86-89. Find one with a really nice interior.
Pull the engine and take it home. Leave the intake manifold and two-barrel at the yard.

Degrease engine, take it apart. Number everything because you're going to reuse most of what you find. Here's what you should find:
0. Roller 318 block with next to zero wear in the cylinders.
1. 302 heads.
2. Flattop pistons with no signs of excessive wear.
3. 645 connecting rods, they started out as a 340/360 forging and are quite strong.
4. Cast crank in perfect shape.
5. Hydraulic roller cam

Send the cam to Bullet for their 259/316 grind on both lobes, that's Patrick's favorite grind for this job, should set you back less than $150.

Disassemble heads, keep everything in order.

Read Steve Dulcich's article on porting the 302s. Forget putting in bigger valves, just work on the ports. Don't do a valve job until after!!!!

Reassemble engine with good parts, I am using Crane 833 springs, Patrick has a couple of other favorites, the Comp 901s being mentioned a lot. You should probably cut the valve guides down at the same time, stock stem seals are 0.625, valve stem size is 3/8, so you need a 0.625" cutter on a 3/8" pilot. I got the cutter from the 'bay for $50. I did mine with my Milwaukee drill. Now you have retainer-to-seal clearance.

Put it all together and stick the intake of your choice on top. Mine is a 1976 or so 360 cast iron spreadbore intake and I'm going to use a Quadrajet because Scratchin told me to, also because I want MPG!
Add a distributor with a decent curve in it, a set of headers or good manifolds and you're looking at an honest 250 hp, maybe more, that will be able to drive past a gas station.

R.

Your kid may want a 440 but a nice 318 will allow him to actually afford to drive the vehicle.

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: hp383] #1386793
02/14/13 01:12 PM
02/14/13 01:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
340SHORTY Offline
Truck Nut
340SHORTY  Offline
Truck Nut

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
The Seafoam is designed to do what you need. It will provide the smoke you son wants to see but will work much better that the ATF.


I am truckless..
Re: Engine Knocking [Re: 340SHORTY] #1386794
02/14/13 06:16 PM
02/14/13 06:16 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
S
scratchnfotraction Offline
I Live Here
scratchnfotraction  Offline
I Live Here
S

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
might try removeing all 8 spark plugs and roll each piston to the top with valves close and sux it out with a shop vac.

might blow it out the plug hole with compressed air thru the hole as well.

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: Pkeel] #1386795
02/14/13 08:43 PM
02/14/13 08:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,946
Greenville, PA
redraptor Offline
master
redraptor  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,946
Greenville, PA
What is your oil pressure at idle?

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1386796
02/15/13 02:00 AM
02/15/13 02:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 452
Coeur d Alene, Idaho
J
jimbob101 Offline
mopar
jimbob101  Offline
mopar
J

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 452
Coeur d Alene, Idaho
Quote:

might try removeing all 8 spark plugs and roll each piston to the top with valves close and sux it out with a shop vac.

might blow it out the plug hole with compressed air thru the hole as well.




You don't wanna use a shop vac to suck anything out, you'll just suck all that dust/dirt around the plugs right into your cylinders, law of physics there! Compressed air is the way to go!

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: jimbob101] #1386797
02/15/13 02:55 AM
02/15/13 02:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,543
chicagoland,usa
B
buildanother Offline
I Live Here
buildanother  Offline
I Live Here
B

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,543
chicagoland,usa
Huh?

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: buildanother] #1386798
02/15/13 01:29 PM
02/15/13 01:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
D
dogdays Offline
I Live Here
dogdays  Offline
I Live Here
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
Huh? Please explain how putting a vacuum nozzle in the spark plug hole, or near to it, is going to cause the dirt around the hole to go into the cylinder. I don't see any laws of physics there. And if the intake valve is open while you do this, the cylinder will have filtered air coming into it while you vacuum out anything that may be in there that can fit through the sparkplug hole.
R.

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: dogdays] #1386799
02/15/13 03:09 PM
02/15/13 03:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 452
Coeur d Alene, Idaho
J
jimbob101 Offline
mopar
jimbob101  Offline
mopar
J

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 452
Coeur d Alene, Idaho
Try it sometime! (actually don't!) When you put a vacuum hose up to the spark plug hole you are actually creating a greater negative air pressure inside the cylinder (especially with the valves closed), thus sucking whatever dust,dirt etc around the spark plug hole right into the cylinder. Air filter? That does provide a slight restriction, so air is gonna come from path of least resistance.

When you take a air gun with a longer nozzle and put it in the plug hole and blow compressed air in the cylinder the pressurized air excapes the plug hole and blows out the dust/dirt away from the plug hole.

Same thing goes for when you pull axle shafts and you want to get the sand/dirt out of the axle tube. Use a vacuum cleaner and you'll pull all that stuff right into your differential. I guarantee it.

-J

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: hp383] #1386800
02/15/13 07:20 PM
02/15/13 07:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,570
Sunny South Florida
Golden-Arm Offline
I Live Here
Golden-Arm  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,570
Sunny South Florida
Quote:

Quote:

to much of any solid liquid will hydro lock it so go slow adding it in.




OK so no ice down the carb then...





what about jello?


"When Tyranny Becomes Law, Rebellion Becomes Duty"

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: Golden-Arm] #1386801
02/15/13 08:19 PM
02/15/13 08:19 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
S
scratchnfotraction Offline
I Live Here
scratchnfotraction  Offline
I Live Here
S

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

to much of any solid liquid will hydro lock it so go slow adding it in.




OK so no ice down the carb then...





what about jello?




only as a liquid not a solid.

quadrajet cause I said too?? dont forget the 2.76 gear with it.

I like my roller cam 318,but I have drove the 440 truck 80 miles a day x5 to work/home this week getting 13 mpg. right now it is worth the extra cash just to finaly enjoy it after 4yrs of hard work,setbacks,re-direction,disapointments,priortys,$$$$,ect...

life is to short not to.

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1386802
02/15/13 08:54 PM
02/15/13 08:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 597
Maine
P
Pkeel Offline OP
mopar
Pkeel  Offline OP
mopar
P

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 597
Maine
That's the spirit. Build it to use it. The 80 gets 8 miles a gallon right now. That's about 50 cents a mile! It will be driven this summer.

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: Pkeel] #1386803
02/26/13 09:11 AM
02/26/13 09:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 597
Maine
P
Pkeel Offline OP
mopar
Pkeel  Offline OP
mopar
P

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 597
Maine
Finally had a decent enough day to look at the truck again.

Started it up... no Knocking. ?

We put some sea foam through the system anyway, but there was no knocking when we started it up. Was it a stuck lifter? That is my guess at the moment.

Re: Engine Knocking [Re: Pkeel] #1386804
02/26/13 09:48 AM
02/26/13 09:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
B
bobs66440 Offline
top fuel
bobs66440  Offline
top fuel
B

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
Quote:

Was it a stuck lifter? That is my guess at the moment.


Most likely...or maybe a stuck valve that freed itself up. In any case, drive it!

Page 1 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1