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Re: Valve train question
[Re: bigcountry]
#1385401
02/11/13 12:50 PM
02/11/13 12:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Hyd lifter I'm assuming. Piston to valve collision? How much preload do you have? More details on what was punched thru on the lifter.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Valve train question
[Re: Yellow Fever]
#1385403
02/11/13 01:22 PM
02/11/13 01:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
You took used lifters from another motor and put them in? I doubt it will last very long, should have just put one new lifter in or all new lifters.
I was thinking the same thing , good luck ...
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Re: Valve train question
[Re: bigcountry]
#1385405
02/12/13 12:54 AM
02/12/13 12:54 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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I'd pull the valve springs off of the offending cyl with an on eng valve spring compressor & check piston to valve clearance with a pair of light checking springs. The rocker arm could have failed from high spring pressure but you said the lifter was punched thru also. I would suggest some more checking unless you're sure V/P clearance is adequate
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Valve train question
[Re: bigcountry]
#1385410
02/13/13 10:25 AM
02/13/13 10:25 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
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When you're saying the pushrod punched a hole through the lifter, can you describe what that looks like or post a picture?
Did the lifter have a hole through the bottom of it and look a bit concave where it meets the cam?
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Valve train question
[Re: bigcountry]
#1385411
02/13/13 11:40 AM
02/13/13 11:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,948
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Yes both lifter and rocker were punched thru. Can't figure out why piston to valve clearance or spring tension would become an issue at this point?? Motor probably had 3000 miles on it with this setup. Any ideas? By the way thanks for all the input and help.
Was the block decked and the heads surfaced also ? Adding shims under the rocker shafts is the WRONG way to fix what is one of your real issues ... pushrods that are TOO LONG.
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Re: Valve train question
[Re: bobs66440]
#1385413
02/13/13 11:05 PM
02/13/13 11:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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If the lifter face had a hole in it (worn) you can stop doing anything and closely inspect the camshaft without the intake in place. You have engine damage and the more you swap in used parts and run it the more damage is done. If the cam lobe that killed that lifter is also damaged (and no, it running with another used lifter for ANY time is not helping) then you have serious repairs. Inspect it. Closely. Immediately.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Valve train question
[Re: bigcountry]
#1385415
02/14/13 07:45 AM
02/14/13 07:45 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
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Yes, the shims are used to adjust lifter preload. Some say they really aren't a good idea because they effectively increase the diameter of the rocker shaft, which makes them too snug for the pedestals in the head and causes them to crack. I've never actually seen one crack, so I'm not sure if it's true, but it sounds logical. Adjustable rockers are better, but expensive. If you want to use the stock rockers, the correct way to adjust preload is to get a custom set of pushrods made. That's what I did with mine.
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Re: Valve train question
[Re: bobs66440]
#1385416
02/14/13 02:07 PM
02/14/13 02:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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Shims are "bad" because they move the centerline of the rocker shaft. That in turn can negatively affects the path the rocker follows - they affect the geometry of the rocker. So you add shim to adjust for the wrong pushrod, and the rocker tip ends up riding slightly off in terms of it's path accross the top of the valve. So for the cost of pushrods you run the risk of wearing the guides faster, valvetrain instability, wearing the rockers faster, and wearing the valve stem tips faster.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Valve train question
[Re: bigcountry]
#1385417
02/14/13 02:23 PM
02/14/13 02:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
Well the pushrods from both 440's are the same length. Have the heads been surfaced/block decked...will have to check, I dont know. The lifter face is not where the hole was punched, it is on other end where pushrod meets. The lifters I pulled from Superbee are a little longer than the ones that I pulled from, another 440. Put the two different lifters side by side WITH the shim on top of shorter lifter and they are the exact same length. I figured the shims, which are NOT homemade, were added under the rockerarm shafts for clearance??I was told shims were used before ajustable rocker arms were around?
Case height of the lifters don't mean didily. The preload is determined by the depth of the plunger after the rocker shaft is tightened down with the lifter on the base circle of the cam with the lifter, push rod, and rocker all in place. 
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Re: Valve train question
[Re: MoparforLife]
#1385419
02/14/13 02:38 PM
02/14/13 02:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
bobs66440
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
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Quote:
Quote:
Well the pushrods from both 440's are the same length. Have the heads been surfaced/block decked...will have to check, I dont know. The lifter face is not where the hole was punched, it is on other end where pushrod meets. The lifters I pulled from Superbee are a little longer than the ones that I pulled from, another 440. Put the two different lifters side by side WITH the shim on top of shorter lifter and they are the exact same length. I figured the shims, which are NOT homemade, were added under the rockerarm shafts for clearance??I was told shims were used before ajustable rocker arms were around?
Case height of the lifters don't mean didily. The preload is determined by the depth of the plunger after the rocker shaft is tightened down with the lifter on the base circle of the cam with the lifter, push rod, and rocker all in place.
Exactly right. When I was building mine, I had two different brand lifters side by side. They had different overall heights but the distance from the plunger and the face where the lifter meets the cam was the same. That's the dimension that matters. 
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There's a lot of metal to go through on a lifter...and if it went through the lifter first, the pushrod probably couldn't even reach the rocker arm and vice versa. 
