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Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project
[Re: SLOW67]
#1376705
02/18/13 08:22 PM
02/18/13 08:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
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Also...stay away from the handheld powertuners and such...they don't have the capabilities that you will need to make this kind of swap work....like turn off VAT's (some will), change firing order bank assignments, etc. HPtuners or EFI Live (more $$) are the only ones with the capabilities we need. But I can also use the HPtuners to tune/diagnose problems on my 6.0 Suburban too...  Or you could look for a used HPtuners...to save any more money....just make sure there are credits left on it...or that it's really cheap. make sure it's the newest version though...
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Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#1376706
02/18/13 08:36 PM
02/18/13 08:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305
5th and plum
redmist
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305
5th and plum
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Quote:
And one more time from a guy who's worked on allot of Fuel Injection... My vote is a OE PCM because they have diagnostic capabilities including freeze frame PID recording & trouble codes.. With aftermarket systems you need your laptop hooked up & you need to be viewing the proper parameters if & when something goes wrong... Hard faults are easy, intermittents can be challenging but if you've go an OE PCM it will detect a fault, set a code & record the data just prior to, during & after the event....
It looks like MS3X Does all this as well, I can set parameter for "Check engine light" and the MS does real time logging non stop anyhow for as big as the card inserted is.
Plugging in a laptop is no different to me then plugging in an OBDII scanner except with the MS I get real data instead of just a trouble code.
I guess the LS tuning software does something similar??
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Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project
[Re: redmist]
#1376708
02/18/13 10:37 PM
02/18/13 10:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
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Quote:
Quote:
And one more time from a guy who's worked on allot of Fuel Injection... My vote is a OE PCM because they have diagnostic capabilities including freeze frame PID recording & trouble codes.. With aftermarket systems you need your laptop hooked up & you need to be viewing the proper parameters if & when something goes wrong... Hard faults are easy, intermittents can be challenging but if you've go an OE PCM it will detect a fault, set a code & record the data just prior to, during & after the event....
It looks like MS3X Does all this as well, I can set parameter for "Check engine light" and the MS does real time logging non stop anyhow for as big as the card inserted is.
Plugging in a laptop is no different to me then plugging in an OBDII scanner except with the MS I get real data instead of just a trouble code.
I guess the LS tuning software does something similar??
OBDII and even some OBDI systems would do real time data, What OBDII systems do is constantly log data saving about a five minute recording, dumping old data & saving the most recent... Then if a fault code is generated the PCM stores that data till it is manually deleted.... And goes back to recording waiting for any future failure... This data can all be accessed with a scan tool plus you can view live data..
It's good to hear one of the aftermarket companies is making an effort to help on the diagnostic side.... The OEM's have a much bigger budget & allot of very sharp engineers for developing a engine control package.. Most aftermarkets have a limited budget, one or two very sharp engineers with lots of passion for their product & hopefully a willingness to provide the highest quality components available.. But it's hard to compete with the OEM's years of experience & unlimited testing budget...
"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
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Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project
[Re: Dos Snails]
#1376710
02/18/13 11:32 PM
02/18/13 11:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
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Quote:
I grabbed my LS1 harness from a 1999 F body @ My work about two years ago waiting to do the same to my R3 engine. I would also like a Sb spacer also if you get time to whittle more up, just p/m me when you have one! 
Sweet!!
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Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project
[Re: Quicksilver440]
#1376711
02/19/13 12:08 AM
02/19/13 12:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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I am curious if any of these aftermarket units can record data that you can play back. I retired from Chrysler in early 2011 but from 1992 on up I could record data and then play it back in the bigger shop computer. I could set the trigger to go of from a code or manually by pushing the button. And when it acted up you would push the trigger and it would record 45 seconds before you hit it and 10 seconds more after hitting the trigger. That way if it had a glitch and you did not hit the button until 15 seconds later you would still get the recording. Funny thing was I was the only tech in my dealer who learned how to use it and I loved it. Had a Caravan that would drop cylinders about 45 mph that drove me nuts until I took a recording and saw the speed sensor was going crazy telling the PCM it was going as fast as 504 mph ! Course the PCM was speed rated to drop cylinders an 108 mph. These aftermarket units sound like they are pretty smart from what I hear but I have never fooled with one. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 02/19/13 12:09 AM.
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Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project
[Re: 383man]
#1376712
02/19/13 08:52 PM
02/19/13 08:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305
5th and plum
redmist
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 305
5th and plum
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Yes, MS3X Will record real time data to include your own voice making comments over the data as you go down the track. You can even tune the engine via bluetooth realtime if you want. The thing about MS3X is it has unlimited budget since it's open source. heck, people are flushing ipads in the dashes of there cars and using the MS3X as a gauge cluster. That can see real time, logged, and tune the car off a single touch screen in the dash. Then you can watch a movie or play music I guess, haha On top of that, you get programmable outputs, Launch control, soft, fuel, and spark limiters, 3 stages of nitrous control, it goes on and on and on!! The tuning software is $40 for the good stuff, and it has a self learning feature built in. This guy has a bunch of stuff graphed real time on a screen in his van, haha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0RLx8UPS8w
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Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project
[Re: Quicksilver440]
#1376713
02/19/13 09:51 PM
02/19/13 09:51 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
I grabbed my LS1 harness from a 1999 F body @ My work about two years ago waiting to do the same to my R3 engine. I would also like a Sb spacer also if you get time to whittle more up, just p/m me when you have one!
Sweet!!
love this post.
I am surprised not to see the "It's not a MOPAR part bla bla bla........."
 to you for figuring out a system to run your Mopar engine. I brought this up in another post a long time ago stating that Fiat should give up their encryption software to help out hot rodders.
It would be nice to use a factory Mopar ECM to run your Mopar engine. 
Now for the real question. Drive by wire on an G3 Hemi does the ECM pick up the signal from the pedal AND throttle? Or is it just from the throttle? Is it posible to fab a mechanical cable to the throttle to get rid of the pedal?
Thanks for the great write up
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Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project
[Re: Burlapen]
#1376715
02/24/13 03:59 AM
02/24/13 03:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
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The main issues are to get crank and cam sensor signals to the PCM....both can be accomplished as shown in this thread (there are 2 ways shown to get a cam signal). The next issue is the wiring harness stripped down to a stand alone harness to get rid of 2/3rds of those unneeded wires, etc. You can follow many of the online guides to do this....but just switch the wires at the PCM for the change in the firing order. Other than that...it's mostly basic LS fuel injection tuning. I'm just a few hours south of you . I appreciate the parts offer...I'll let you know if anything comes up...probably wont need any though since mines almost done. I gotta get the pinout diagram finished.... 
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Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project
[Re: Quicksilver440]
#1376716
02/24/13 04:35 AM
02/24/13 04:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,837
Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
mopar65
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,837
Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
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just got done reading this again sounds like something i would want to do to my car. but sorry if i missed it but how hard would this be to make work on my two for tunnel-ram. also wasn't you going to maybe offer this in a kit some way? don't really have the money to do it right now but latter on down the road i would like to do it to my car. thanks Mopar65
3520 pound race ready 1973 Street/Strip Dodge Dart - Stock stroke 440/727
10.49 @ 125.0 on 93 pump gas & ET Street Radials. More to come...
( SGT Miller) Proudly served 12 years in the US ARMY RESERVES
support our troops
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Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project
[Re: Quicksilver440]
#1376719
03/02/13 08:46 PM
03/02/13 08:46 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,313
Charlotte, NC
LSP
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,313
Charlotte, NC
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I have to say your quite resourceful Quicksilver! Another crank sensor/trigger option if a damper with the 3 bolt GM pattern on front is used would be the Big Stuff 3 24 tooth wheel. The OE LS1 computer and coils are good to 8000+ rpm. The tables in the HP Tuners software may stop at 8000 rpm, but the values maintain themselves at the 8000 rpm setting (flatline) when that rpm is exceeded. Good Luck with your project, and please keep updating as you go.
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Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project
[Re: LSP]
#1376720
03/03/13 03:13 PM
03/03/13 03:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
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Thanks man! If your talking about this wheel:  The one shown won't work with the LS PCM....the LS 24X reluctor has a very unique tooth pattern. Or is there a different one made by BS3? I tried googling it..but thats all I found. It is 24X...but the wrong pattern for the LS PCM. The LS PCM can definitly handle most engines needs...my brothers shop has several LS based cars (using stock LS PCM's) in the 8's. and he's building one that will hopefully be in the high 7's as his personal car.
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