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Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: 72Swinger] #1369952
03/14/13 07:32 PM
03/14/13 07:32 PM
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Belpre,Ohio
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CHAPPER Offline
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Quote:

Just an FYI, picked up latest issue of Mopar Now and they picked up a used 5.7 too see how far the bottom end can go before it poofs. It was a used core engine with 55k on it that they opened original ring gaps, put in cam, fresh heads etc. It made 1100hp with original pistons,rods,bearings,crank and rings before it ran out of turbo with a safe tune.




How many RPM.?


If you like drag racing, support your local track.
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: CHAPPER] #1369953
03/14/13 08:59 PM
03/14/13 08:59 PM
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Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
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Looks like power peaked 1127hp at 6600 rpm and they pulled to 6900 rpm with 1119hp. The boost was at 17.3 psi. The motor made 60 pulls using 116 octane.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: 72Swinger] #1369954
03/15/13 12:03 AM
03/15/13 12:03 AM
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acworth / N. georgia - south e...
cheapstreetdustr Offline
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acworth / N. georgia - south e...
did it ever actually go Boom??

Last edited by cheapstreetdustr; 03/15/13 12:04 AM.

365" Iron J heads,,3480lbs best 1.39 60ft on SS springs.10.54,124 mph ...6.67 1/8th et.average 60fts 1.46 w/ small cam &.063 no2 pill tagged & insured
[image][/image]
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: cheapstreetdustr] #1369955
03/15/13 12:08 AM
03/15/13 12:08 AM
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Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
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No, they wrote it is still "reasonably" healthy and plan more testing when they can give it more air.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: 72Swinger] #1369956
03/15/13 12:44 AM
03/15/13 12:44 AM
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MN
hemidup Offline
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Quote:

No, they wrote it is still "reasonably" healthy and plan more testing when they can give it more air.




My theory is not that they're running out of air, is that they're running out of spark. Been there, done that. In the lower rpm range I was making an average of 23 hp per lb of boost. Once I hit 20 psi I was down to only making 2-3 hp per lb of boost.


Jerry Williams.
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: hemidup] #1369957
03/15/13 09:03 AM
03/15/13 09:03 AM
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Ontario Canada
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MattW Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

No, they wrote it is still "reasonably" healthy and plan more testing when they can give it more air.




My theory is not that they're running out of air, is that they're running out of spark. Been there, done that. In the lower rpm range I was making an average of 23 hp per lb of boost. Once I hit 20 psi I was down to only making 2-3 hp per lb of boost.




Jerry are you saying the coils are getting snuffed out?

Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: MattW] #1369958
03/15/13 09:26 AM
03/15/13 09:26 AM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline OP
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Cylinder pressures are much higher than normally aspirated, and voltage requirements go up quite a bit. Most new cars can take up to 5 to 8 psi boost before the stock stuff won't jump the gap with a standard gap in the plugs. On my Mustang GT, the gap was reduced to .035 for only 7.5 PSI boost. 21 psi is almost twice the air density that I am running.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: gregsdart] #1369959
03/15/13 09:34 AM
03/15/13 09:34 AM
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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The kid here with the Evo running almost 40 lbs of boost gaps his plugs at .020.


"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"


'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: MattW] #1369960
03/15/13 09:55 AM
03/15/13 09:55 AM
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hemidup Offline
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Thats my theory anyways. I don't think the coils can handle the extreme cylinder pressures according to what I've seen at the dyno. We added an AEM cid box, but never had the chance to get back to test my theory out since the engine is now nestled in an engine bay.


Jerry Williams.
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: hemidup] #1369961
03/15/13 10:07 AM
03/15/13 10:07 AM
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NY usa
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540challenger Offline
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I wonder how the firecore coils will hold up

Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: hemidup] #1369962
03/15/13 10:42 AM
03/15/13 10:42 AM
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Ontario Canada
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MattW Offline
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Quote:

Thats my theory anyways. I don't think the coils can handle the extreme cylinder pressures according to what I've seen at the dyno. We added an AEM cid box, but never had the chance to get back to test my theory out since the engine is now nestled in an engine bay.




Thanks for all your input Jerry

Nice to be able to put a face to a name. 13 grandkids I thought I was low on time

Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: 540challenger] #1369963
03/15/13 10:56 AM
03/15/13 10:56 AM
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MN
hemidup Offline
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Quote:

I wonder how the firecore coils will hold up




I'm thinking they'll be fine. Rick sent me the very first set of his proto types. He heard we were taking a highly boosted G3 to the dyno and told me... "My prayers have been answered. Finally I can see how they'll hold up under high cylinder pressure. This is why I go to church on Sunday's"... I

Anywho, we bolted them on and started the tugs. We noticed the engine started to lay down at 5000 rpm, meaning our increased boost to hp ratio was dropping. BTW, the motor made 936 hp. Well after some head scratching we bolted on the OEM coil packs and tugged away some more. This time we got an extra 500 rpm and 22 more hp before the engine started to lay down. I hoped to have tickled 1200 hp, but that wasn't gonna happen. I sent Rick all the dyno info and he then sent it to his top notch engineer for revisions of his coil packs. I wish I had the previledge to dyno his new ones, but we were on a time frame. Also just to be sure it was the coils and not ring flutter or something else, I pulled the engine apart and all was fine.


Jerry Williams.
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: hemidup] #1369964
03/15/13 11:08 AM
03/15/13 11:08 AM
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S.E. Michigan
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That's great info, and I hope they stick with development, thanks for posting.

We ran the stock ones to 24lbs of boost and I would not venture a HP guess, there were so many other issues to look at that we never really had the chance to evaluate coil performance. Now the car just sits there.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: ZIPPY] #1369965
03/15/13 11:59 AM
03/15/13 11:59 AM
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MN
hemidup Offline
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Quote:

That's great info, and I hope they stick with development, thanks for posting.

We ran the stock ones to 24lbs of boost and I would not venture a HP guess, there were so many other issues to look at that we never really had the chance to evaluate coil performance. Now the car just sits there.




Give Falzone an 'NCIS Jethro Gibb's' back head slap and tell him to get with it. You guy's can't leave that car sit there with all the hard work you've put into it.

Even though the engine still made power as the rpm and boost increased, we would have like to see 23hp per lb of boost, not 2-3. I started to question myself why the engine, which made 535hp NA, only made 958hp at 14.7 of boost where it should have been WELL north of a 1000..... Air, fuel, spark. I had the first 2 covered


Jerry Williams.
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: hemidup] #1369966
03/15/13 05:43 PM
03/15/13 05:43 PM
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Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
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If I could only find a 6.1 for a reasonable price. I can get new complete Apache heads for less than I can a block.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: hemidup] #1369967
03/16/13 10:20 AM
03/16/13 10:20 AM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline OP
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
I have noticed the oil passages for the filter don't look too big. Any mods needed for all out racing? Would like thoughts and opinions on oil viscosity and bearing clearances for street/strip use, as well as a full on race motor?


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: hemidup] #1369968
03/17/13 11:09 PM
03/17/13 11:09 PM
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Orlando Fl
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I did not see it posted, a lot of the early 5.7's we pick up @ TRA auction with bad engines sound like a rod knock turn out to be the valve seats falling out of the intake valve wiping out the ring land @ piston tops.The seats shatter & wind up thrown into the intake .Make sure the intake is clean from pieces because when the come unstuck they will damage ALL your fresh work.

Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: Dos Snails] #1369969
03/18/13 07:49 AM
03/18/13 07:49 AM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline OP
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Quote:

I did not see it posted, a lot of the early 5.7's we pick up @ TRA auction with bad engines sound like a rod knock turn out to be the valve seats falling out of the intake valve wiping out the ring land @ piston tops.The seats shatter & wind up thrown into the intake .Make sure the intake is clean from pieces because when the come unstuck they will damage ALL your fresh work.



I had a chance to visit with Brian (0u812) at IMM and he pointed out the same thing. It sounds to me like working with the heads off the 2006 motor core I have may be a crap shoot, possibly failing. Any opinions on this? I had hoped to stay with the small port heads for low speed port velocity, this being a 380 cube street motor build. Were all the early version heads prone to failure or just certain years?

Last edited by gregsdart; 03/18/13 07:50 AM.

8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: gregsdart] #1369970
03/18/13 08:37 AM
03/18/13 08:37 AM
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The Netherlands
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The 5.7 I had bought awhile back had all these issues; 1 completely worn down (rear) rod-journal with others starting to go aswell and a number of valveseats had fallen out of the heads.

They may be issues to be concerned about but I still think this are owner-caused problems by running low on oil or using the wrong weight, and letting the engine get too hot maybe because of lack of coolant or too much load.

Oh, one of the camshaft-bearings (no. 4) was semi-welded to the camshaft aswell and had sheared the splines on the camshaft-tube, causing the bearing-'disc' on the camshaft to break loose;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co_SJjfyBI8&list=UUtrx_z3PXNJYuLEui9O-hkg&index=1


Joy-oh-joy...

Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: gregsdart] #1369971
03/18/13 10:45 AM
03/18/13 10:45 AM
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Canada
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Over on the LXForums, the valve seat issue has happened to a couple of guys when they were driving the car, stopped for a short time (10-20 minutes) and when they went to start it back up, all hell broke loose with a valve seat falling out. Others it happened after the engine was seriously overheated.
Could if be that the valve seats don't have enough of an interfere fit, or poor maintenance? Maybe both. Something I thought it may be is from the infamous 5.7 HEMI "tick" from the pushrods being to short. Apparently the pushrods are to short and cause to much clearence in the valvetrain and make it noisy. In the opinion of others here, could this cause the valve to pound on the valve seat, causing it to work loose? I've never heard of a 6.1 HEMI dropping a valve seat and they don't have the "tick", as a matter of fact, the cure for the 5.7 is to use the 6.1 pushrods which are longer

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