Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: AARCONV] #1356672
12/24/12 07:42 PM
12/24/12 07:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
kinda surprised that the corvette carbs haven't been brought up,.... .

Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: jbc426] #1356673
12/25/12 06:48 PM
12/25/12 06:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Are paper 6 pack filters being reproed again or are nos ones still listing for 350 bucks?





If you are talking about the orange round hole original style, no, not to my knowledge, athough they likely will make more eventually. And BTW, the $350.00 examples you commonly see offered are not typically NOS, they are remaining Fram reproductions, NOS (New OLD Stock from the early 70's) usually go for more than that.




...and K&N has a nice filter that will outlast all of us.




If you like your engine gulping in dirt sure. Would have to pay me to put on of those on my engine.

Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1356674
12/25/12 08:44 PM
12/25/12 08:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,922
canaan ct usa
M
moparclown Offline
top fuel
moparclown  Offline
top fuel
M

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,922
canaan ct usa
Quote:




Here's my take. If you want the ultimate "Wow" factor yank the 408 and drop in a GenII Hemi. Done!

IMO it's hard to beat an STR12 for a small block in terms of under hood glamor (EXPENSIVE!), but they can be a trial to find, install, and tune properly.

If you want the car to perform to it's limit you'll likely find the best way to get there is a single 4 barrel.

For vintage look I'd go with a Thermo-Quad, you don't need a Comp series unit either (they work great but are not very street friendly). For a more modern approach it's hard to beat a Holley 950 on a stroker small block with an aggressive cam profile.

Six packs are great dependable power makers as well (and if properly tuned) will perform with nearly anything, but it's a lot of extra expense and hardware to get to the same goal a 4 barrel can reach, plus, if you run a stock oval air cleaner a 4 barrel looks basically the same as a Six Barrel when all covered up, all that money and now it's all hidden, that goes double if you run a Shaker hood.

Dual 4's are sort of the same story, not really needed but if you like the look and don't mind the added expense you won't likely lose (unless you over carb the engine) or gain any performance over a well chosen single 4 setup.





Almost thought you were refering to my car for a moment as I pulled the STR12 off and installed a 950hp Holley on a hand ported M1.I have only run the 950 on the street so far but will see if I gained anything in the spring when the dragstrip opens.I do Miss the WOW factor of that crossram and I had absolutely no issues with it.
I also installed an Indy Mod man intake on a car I am building for a friend on his stroker small block with the magnum heads.But have not been able to try it out yet as the car is in pieces at the bodyshop being painted.He also bought the single 4bbl top plate for the intake if the 2 4bbl combo doesn't work out.

7518502-000_3861.jpg (311 downloads)
Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: jbc426] #1356675
12/25/12 09:49 PM
12/25/12 09:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,275
West Coast, USA
jbc426 Offline
master
jbc426  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,275
West Coast, USA
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I like the build you're doing. I went a similar route on my build except on a big block. The six pack I'm running has the manifold deep ported and uses the mechanical secondary carbs. They all have accelerator pumps. I don't really like the feel of the vacuum secondary style of carbs, but that's a preference thing.

The six pack gives the motor a Dr Jekyle & Mr Hyde type of personality, mild mannered with decent mileage while on the center carb, and brutal power and acceleration when the outboards are tipped in.

When the unknowing ask to go for a ride in my car, I innocently lull them into relaxing by driving smooth and normal on the center carb. Right when they are all relaxed and not expecting it, I tip in the outboards, the motor changes personality with a sinister, Mr Hyde-like roar, their legs and arms lock to brace themselves as their eyes get as big as silver dollars. 700 hp will do that too you.

As soon as I go back on the center carb, they all seem to have a smile on their face that outlasts the ride home. It's the little things in life that make me smile these days.

When the motor was being dynoed, I had them test it with a big 4 barrel, the six pack was a bit stronger in the mid-range , and the single 4 eeked out a handful more hp at high rpm.

For me, my car would be bit less fun to drive and not as street friendly without a six pax on it.




Thanks! There has been some thought put into it for sure. I like the idea of using mechanical secondary's and accelerator pumps on each one. More info please. So far the six pack is winning this debate!




The mechanical six pack Holley 2300 carbs were sold over the counter under the Direct Connection banner as "Racing" carbs. They were also used on Ford's during the '60's. It takes a bit of searching, but there are still a lot of nice sets out there, especially if you Google Ford set-ups.

Hughes Engines deep ported the intake and stage 2 ported my Indy EZ's. I picked up a very nice heim-joint linkage set-up from Ben at ProMax. I used a wide band to tune them, which makes it relatively easy to get them virtually spot on in no time.

Here's a pic of the linkage, and an old fuel line I had made up. I've since gone to three individual fuel lines. Notice the fuel feed is on the opposite side, as the float bowls are side hung.




They were actually only offered through Direct Connection andd through some speed shops about 20 or more years ago.

The Holley list numbers for the mechanical carbs are Center = #4782 and Outboards = #4783

I stand corrected about the availability of the carbs through Ford collectors, but there is some interesting history surrounding early Ford Tripower set-ups that I found on the net.

"In the 1969-70 period, Ford developed the 6V intakes for the 351C, 429 and BOSS429. Ford made a determination that NASCAR rules had no restrictions on using a 3x2 intake, so they embarked on a development program around their current 351C engine called the NASCAR 366 Program. The historical background on the NASCAR 366 Engine and 429SCJ 6V and BOSS429 6V, was shared with me by Tom Vaught of Ford Motor Company.15 They designed and built 500 366 engines plus 6V intakes and went to Holley to develop a set of carburetors for the program. They used a set of List 4782/4783 vacuum secondary carburetors for the motor. During the testing, it was determined that the 1355cfm size of the carburetion was too much for the size of the motor, so Holley sleeved these carburetors to reduce the airflow. Once the testing was done, Ford presented the planned engine and carburetor package to NASCAR for approval. In preparing for this, Ford actually produced 500 Ford 366 engines; each equipped with the new alum Buddy Bar Casting 3x2 intake manifolds and sleeved Holley 4782/4783 carburetors. Unfortunately, NASCAR said “No” to Ford who immediately ordered the destruction of all 500 of the NASCAR 366 engines, 3x2 intakes and the specially built Holley sleeved 6V carburetors . Over the course of a week, Ford employees physically destroyed these pieces of performance history. Fortunately for the few lucky current owners of 351C 6V intakes, a few brand new bare 6V intakes
which were hiding away in engineering spaces escaped the sledge hammers and are around today. As for the sleeved Holley 2300 carbs, a very few still exist, carefully held by people who knew the value of these special pieces. Recently, a Ford 429SCJ 6V intake manifold held by a person connected to Buddy Bar Casting in Los Angeles was purchased and with it came a single sleeved Holley 6V carb. They are very rare.
After the decision to eliminate the 366 program, Ford advised Holley they were no longer interested in the Ford/Holley developed List 4782/4783 2300 6V carbs, so Holley contacted General Motors to see if they were interested in these carbs. They told Holley “No,” so Holley offered them to MOPAR who jumped at the chance. Holley made some changes to the carbs, converting them from vacuum secondary to full mechanical with full metering plates, which were thereafter offered as competition carburetors to MOPAR owners who wanted a little more performance out of their SixPack equipped 340 and 440 motors. Edelbrock produced a set of mechanical-progressive linkage along with a fuel log for these carburetors and the overall package allowed any MOPAR SixPac owner to get rid of his vacuum secondary carburetion and convert to full mechanical progressive 3x2 carbs which flowed a total of 1355cfm."


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: moparclown] #1356676
12/25/12 09:54 PM
12/25/12 09:54 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



NO
They are a PIA
Want a 600 HP stroker Big Block? Take the 4 barrel off a 700 HP Big block and replace with a Six Pack.
Six packs may look real good on a National Winning NHRA car but in real life any dyno operator will tell you they are old school mystic BS. On a stock 440 they sound good and are fun but that goes out the window when you really want to make real modern day power levels--ok ok there are you that will point to some folks making great hp with so and so but honest the cfm deal is BS--distribution stinks, intake volume is nothing to get excited about--that is KEY to making big power--A Six Pack is a legend, and like most they are never really what they are supposed to be--Elvis is an exception--I saw that cat and he was AMAZING! I had a 500 inch pump gas Eddy headed with Max porting--custom solid roller yadda yadda, that engine would not make over 600 HP on the dyno to save my life--modded the six pack for days--put a real carb and intake on it and you get my first line in this post.
They look cool but cause more PIA than ex wives. Yea they moan about like one but....

Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: moparclown] #1356677
12/25/12 10:45 PM
12/25/12 10:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
I Live Here
gdonovan  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
Quote:


Almost thought you were refering to my car for a moment as I pulled the STR12 off and installed a 950hp Holley on a hand ported M1.




I had not one but TWO STR-12 intakes back in the day, never did get around to running them and sold both.

Odds are they flowed poor (I have seen reports of engines with and without Max Wedge intakes for example picking up buckets of power going to modern intakes) but man do they look sweet when you pop the hood!

Nothing like two carbs on a crossram!

Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: 95Kota408] #1356678
12/26/12 12:44 AM
12/26/12 12:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,522
Orleans, Ontario
moparcanuk Offline
pro stock
moparcanuk  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,522
Orleans, Ontario
Quote:

I am at the final stages of my engine build and it is now time to pick my Intake and carb setup. I am leaning toward the Indy Mod Man Six Pack setup. I have no experience with these so I need some advice. I have read mixed reviews so I need to know if the cool factor of having a six pack under the hood is worth it and also want to make sure that they live up to their legend of being great performers. This is a magnum motor 360. Build list is as follows:

408
Block was honed with Torque Plates
Align Honed
Square Deck
Scat Forged Crank
Scat Forged I Beam Rods
AutoTec Forged pistons
Eddie Heads fully ported
2.08 Ferrea Competition Plus intake valves 5/16'' stem
1.60 Ferrea Competition Plus exhaust valves 5/16'' stem
C.H.E. Precision valve guides
T&D shaft mount roller rockers 1.6
Crower Lifters
Innovators West Damper
Moroso Oil Pan




So, what are ya gonna do?

Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: moparcanuk] #1356679
12/26/12 01:06 AM
12/26/12 01:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,311
NJ, USA
B
bill440rt Offline
top fuel
bill440rt  Offline
top fuel
B

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,311
NJ, USA
I've got a 6-pack setup from ProMax on my 440, with the tunable outboard carbs. Came pre-assembled & flow tested, I really didn't have to do much other than set the idle & mixture screws. It's been on there only about 2 years now. Car runs like an animal, but I think I could get even more out of it by further tuning the outboards.
This is my first 6-pack equipped big block & I've been happy with it.

Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: ] #1356680
12/26/12 02:52 AM
12/26/12 02:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
Quote:

NO
They are a PIA
Want a 600 HP stroker Big Block? Take the 4 barrel off a 700 HP Big block and replace with a Six Pack.
Six packs may look real good on a National Winning NHRA car but in real life any dyno operator will tell you they are old school mystic BS. On a stock 440 they sound good and are fun but that goes out the window when you really want to make real modern day power levels--ok ok there are you that will point to some folks making great hp with so and so but honest the cfm deal is BS--distribution stinks, intake volume is nothing to get excited about--that is KEY to making big power--A Six Pack is a legend, and like most they are never really what they are supposed to be--Elvis is an exception--I saw that cat and he was AMAZING! I had a 500 inch pump gas Eddy headed with Max porting--custom solid roller yadda yadda, that engine would not make over 600 HP on the dyno to save my life--modded the six pack for days--put a real carb and intake on it and you get my first line in this post.
They look cool but cause more PIA than ex wives. Yea they moan about like one but....


Like most things most people can't make work easily the stock type Moapr sixpaks can be made to work very well There are many cases in print of individual who tried to make a sixpak work and failed, therefore all six paks are no good,(don't forget that the people doing the work are writers) Baloney Sauce I've seen many instances of real racers swapping from a single four barrel to a stock type decently prepared sixpak and going faster with the sixpaks I've done some engine dyno testing with a stock type low deck Eddy six pak dual plane intake and stock type 1970 and 71 vacume carbs., jetted on the dyno the sixpak made 5 more HP and the exact same torque as Holley List # 9375 1050 Dominator on a single plane 4500 intake with a high dollar Wilson manifold 2 inch high reversion spacer. I've also spent more than one hour working on the sixpak setup to max it out My 3450 lb car with a pump gas low deck 518 C.I. stroker with the sixpak has gone low tens at 128 MPH through the mufflers with the junk K&N air filter on it My car did run faster with a single Holley 1050 Domaintor after I put a set of Indy M.W. SR heads on it with there 400-3 intake, the SR heads flow 30 CFM more than the CNC ported Eddy RPM did More air into most Mopar V8 means Mopower

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/26/12 03:43 PM.
Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1356681
12/26/12 11:44 AM
12/26/12 11:44 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



I was really aiming to answer original question--is 6 pk worth time/$/trouble
In my opinion the carbs being sold these days are lacking in quality control, linkage kits on inter galactic back order and very high $$, same on fuel line kits, diaphram kits etc. Digging into new carbs to access adjustments etc all add up to a pain and lots of loot. I admit in the hands of a seasoned 6 Pk man they do work fine as , as I mentioned the many NHRA cars that just plain Run!
Are they worth the effort --I was voting no.
Customer walks in, I want a 6 Pk--oh boy, there goes lots more time that we will not get paid for.
Any man that owns a good one is a happy camper, all I was saying is that is rains alot in the 6 Pack Campground.

Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: ] #1356682
12/26/12 01:40 PM
12/26/12 01:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
Quote:

I was really aiming to answer original question--is 6 pk worth time/$/trouble
In my opinion the carbs being sold these days are lacking in quality control, linkage kits on inter galactic back order and very high $$, same on fuel line kits, diaphram kits etc. Digging into new carbs to access adjustments etc all add up to a pain and lots of loot. I admit in the hands of a seasoned 6 Pk man they do work fine as , as I mentioned the many NHRA cars that just plain Run!
Are they worth the effort --I was voting no.
Customer walks in, I want a 6 Pk--oh boy, there goes lots more time that we will not get paid for.
Any man that owns a good one is a happy camper, all I was saying is that is rains alot in the 6 Pack Campground.


sounds like you don't know how to tune them so you just rain on the parade.

Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: lewtot184] #1356683
12/26/12 01:44 PM
12/26/12 01:44 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



I can admit that!
Look up current price of a linkage kit--Tell me that looks like a good deal.

Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: ] #1356684
12/26/12 03:00 PM
12/26/12 03:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
master
62maxwgn  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
Quote:

I can admit that!
Look up current price of a linkage kit--Tell me that looks like a good deal.




Most anyone with limited skills can make what you need.

7519201-PC260577.JPG (227 downloads)
Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: 62maxwgn] #1356685
12/26/12 03:05 PM
12/26/12 03:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
master
62maxwgn  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
And diaphragms are not a big deal either.

7519207-Picture1027.jpg (211 downloads)
Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: 62maxwgn] #1356686
12/26/12 09:20 PM
12/26/12 09:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,913
usa
Quote:

Quote:

I can admit that!
Look up current price of a linkage kit--Tell me that looks like a good deal.




Most anyone with limited skills can make what you need.


i used to make them back in the '80's before they started re-popping them.

Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: moparcanuk] #1356687
12/26/12 11:26 PM
12/26/12 11:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 79
KY
9
95Kota408 Offline OP
member
95Kota408  Offline OP
member
9

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 79
KY
Quote:

Quote:

I am at the final stages of my engine build and it is now time to pick my Intake and carb setup. I am leaning toward the Indy Mod Man Six Pack setup. I have no experience with these so I need some advice. I have read mixed reviews so I need to know if the cool factor of having a six pack under the hood is worth it and also want to make sure that they live up to their legend of being great performers. This is a magnum motor 360. Build list is as follows:

408
Block was honed with Torque Plates
Align Honed
Square Deck
Scat Forged Crank
Scat Forged I Beam Rods
AutoTec Forged pistons
Eddie Heads fully ported
2.08 Ferrea Competition Plus intake valves 5/16'' stem
1.60 Ferrea Competition Plus exhaust valves 5/16'' stem
C.H.E. Precision valve guides
T&D shaft mount roller rockers 1.6
Crower Lifters
Innovators West Damper
Moroso Oil Pan




So, what are ya gonna do?




Not sure yet. I am leaning toward the six pack setup.

Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: ] #1356688
12/27/12 10:05 AM
12/27/12 10:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

NO
They are a PIA
Want a 600 HP stroker Big Block? Take the 4 barrel off a 700 HP Big block and replace with a Six Pack.
Six packs may look real good on a National Winning NHRA car but in real life any dyno operator will tell you they are old school mystic BS. On a stock 440 they sound good and are fun but that goes out the window when you really want to make real modern day power levels--ok ok there are you that will point to some folks making great hp with so and so but honest the cfm deal is BS--distribution stinks, intake volume is nothing to get excited about--that is KEY to making big power--A Six Pack is a legend, and like most they are never really what they are supposed to be--Elvis is an exception--I saw that cat and he was AMAZING! I had a 500 inch pump gas Eddy headed with Max porting--custom solid roller yadda yadda, that engine would not make over 600 HP on the dyno to save my life--modded the six pack for days--put a real carb and intake on it and you get my first line in this post.
They look cool but cause more PIA than ex wives. Yea they moan about like one but....




while I'm not going to argue that a 4bbl can make power I will say that your 10hp loss is kinda funny. They aren't hard to tune, even w/o aftermarket parts. They can make well over 600hp and we have some 9 second guys running six-packs. Would it be the set-up I'd run for all out racing? NO, but neither would an Eddy 2x4 set-up.

Re: Is a 6 Pack worth the money and trouble? [Re: gdonovan] #1356689
12/27/12 09:10 PM
12/27/12 09:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,922
canaan ct usa
M
moparclown Offline
top fuel
moparclown  Offline
top fuel
M

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,922
canaan ct usa
Quote:

Quote:


Almost thought you were refering to my car for a moment as I pulled the STR12 off and installed a 950hp Holley on a hand ported M1.




I had not one but TWO STR-12 intakes back in the day, never did get around to running them and sold both.

Odds are they flowed poor (I have seen reports of engines with and without Max Wedge intakes for example picking up buckets of power going to modern intakes) but man do they look sweet when you pop the hood!

Nothing like two carbs on a crossram!




I had a second one that was polished out like chrome but had to sell it to pay the mortgage and I find that most people that have had these intakes never ran them.
I hope that the OP makes his own decision on this as many here posted refering to a six pac on a BB and not a SB.If I had listened to every naysayer about the STR12 I probably wouldn't have bought one and that would have been a huge loss as I enjoy mine and will be putting it back on in the near future.And it also put me in the final round at Musclepalooza,which was only my second time running at a dragstrip.My car will probably be a little bit quicker with the single 4 but at the track its not the fastest car that wins,but the car that runs consistant numbers.

Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1