Re: Green Bearings
[Re: Scott Carl]
#134403
10/09/08 07:39 PM
10/09/08 07:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291 Kent, Wa
340SHORTY
Truck Nut
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Truck Nut
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
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they are ball bearings, not tapered bearings a few diff sources priced about the same nowhere as good as tapered bearings they are pressed on...
I am truckless..
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: 340SHORTY]
#134404
10/09/08 07:42 PM
10/09/08 07:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
they are ball bearings, not tapered bearings
a few diff sources
priced about the same
nowhere as good as tapered bearings
they are pressed on...
Agreed. For drag racing they are OK, for street driving no, and an autocrosser would destroy them in no time. They don't hold up well to side loading (cornering).
A tapered Timken bearing is a beautiful engineering masterpiece.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#134406
10/09/08 09:14 PM
10/09/08 09:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016 Polson, MT
DoctorDiff
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
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An adjustable, Set 7 bearing is a needlessly complicated design that weakens the differential, limits side gear spline engagement, and is prone to leakage and dirt/water contamination in many applications. In addition, axle flange stand-out is not held constant unless you blueprint the axle lengths.
Although most people won't have problems with the snap-ring style Green bearing (not the crimped on flange, RP-400 design still sold by Mopar Performance), the non-adjustable, 3.15" bore Timken set 20 tapered bearing is the strongest, commonly available wheel bearing. Unfortunatley, special housing ends are required to run this bearing on a Mopar application.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#134409
10/10/08 06:57 PM
10/10/08 06:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568 Omaha, Nebraska
Scott Carl
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568
Omaha, Nebraska
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Quote:
I offered a detailed explanation several times in the past.
In fact, I just spent 45 minutes typing another detailed reply. When I hit the submit button, the computer locked up and I lost everything I typed.
I'm not in the mood to type it again.
Thanks Doc and to all. I guess I really just needed the tapered vs ball question answered. BTW Doc, I know just how ya feel on the puter problems and I work in comp tech support
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: Hillbillyracer]
#134413
10/10/08 10:16 PM
10/10/08 10:16 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568 Omaha, Nebraska
Scott Carl
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568
Omaha, Nebraska
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Quote:
Quote:
.....I've used the "green" bearings since they've come out.......I haven't had to change out a set Yet!.....in decades!.....and I punish my cars, when I drive them on the street, or track(straight or twisty).......can't tell you how may tapered Timkens I destroyed over the years!
I have been told you can't run them on the street for years and that is total crap Has anyone ever tore apart a 7 1/4 rear end and looked at the bearings,they are small green type bearings with millions of rears on the road in a,b and e body cars that have that rearend in six cylinder cars.I have run them for years in my cars and had zero problems,besides the bearing for a 8 3/4 is much bigger than the 7 1/4.No doubt the tappered bearing is stronger but the green bearings are stronger than most people think
Hmmmmmm This brings me back to my other question. I've done some pricing and I can get stock Fedral Moguls(?) pressed on for $85 plus tax and seals. Can I do Greens that cheap?
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: Scott Carl]
#134415
10/10/08 10:44 PM
10/10/08 10:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 720 Texas
jetdoctor_75402
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 720
Texas
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If you have your own tools and a shop press, you buy the bearings at wholesale price and do the press work yourself. Thats how I handle it normally. I have had a few experiences with machine shop press work that resulted in my needing to replace parts after they just threw it on a 60 ton press without any of the normal support for the item being pressed and wound up with distorted or cracked parts. Plus, I seem to have a phobia about working on my own cars. regards doc 1969 Charger RT (real car not clone) 1970 Dart, fixing to be BB/4 speed hotrod 1972 Dart, daily driver 2000 Jeep TJ (Sahara and yea it goes off road) 2000 Dodge G/Caravan Sport for the occasional car pool deal 2003 Dodge 1500 4x4 and yea it goes off road too 2004 PT Cruiser Turbo 5 speed, My daugher snuck this one in while I was asleep 2008 Jeep JK Sahara, 6 Speed with real off road goodies and a decent stereo, Wife's choice of Mopar Mania (see 2000 Sahara and think about it. 2- ZX cars (1 N/A & 1 Turbo, both 5 speed) that I am thinking seriously about cloning into mini daytonas, just so I can say I have a clone car. Oh yea, the JK has a lifetime warranty, I am worried about whose life???
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: BergmanAutoCraft]
#134416
10/10/08 11:54 PM
10/10/08 11:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568 Omaha, Nebraska
Scott Carl
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568
Omaha, Nebraska
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Quote:
Agreed. For drag racing they are OK, for street driving no, and an autocrosser would destroy them in no time. They don't hold up well to side loading (cornering).
I love responses like this. I have been using greens for almost a 100K, and I'm not a drag racer...Changed the first set @ 50K.
My concern is that the only reason these need replacing after over 100,000 miles is because they got rusty. I really am not 100% sure its even the bearings making the noise I hear but I figure its the best place to start. It just SOUNDS like bearings The car sat in a flood after a hurricane and then sat for ten years. They had a crusty residue that pretty much washed off with solvent but I didn't go to the trouble of doing a thorough job as I figured I would replace them anyway. I just packed as much grease in as I could with them still on the axle and put them back in. I believe if the car hadn't got a soaking, I wouldn't have this issue
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: 62maxwgn]
#134418
10/11/08 08:50 AM
10/11/08 08:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982 Ansonia, CT
CJK440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
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Get the greens from DoctorDiff and be done with it. If you have a failure let us know.
2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: Scott Carl]
#134419
10/11/08 09:06 AM
10/11/08 09:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
Quote:
Agreed. For drag racing they are OK, for street driving no, and an autocrosser would destroy them in no time. They don't hold up well to side loading (cornering).
I love responses like this. I have been using greens for almost a 100K, and I'm not a drag racer...Changed the first set @ 50K.
My concern is that the only reason these need replacing after over 100,000 miles is because they got rusty. I really am not 100% sure its even the bearings making the noise I hear but I figure its the best place to start. It just SOUNDS like bearings The car sat in a flood after a hurricane and then sat for ten years. They had a crusty residue that pretty much washed off with solvent but I didn't go to the trouble of doing a thorough job as I figured I would replace them anyway. I just packed as much grease in as I could with them still on the axle and put them back in. I believe if the car hadn't got a soaking, I wouldn't have this issue
If the bearings cleaned up and aren't pitted they will be fine. You never remove the bearings from the axle to clean and pack only remove to replace as there is normally no salvage once removed. Clean and inspect and pack with a needle on a grease gun to make sure to get grease packed in between all the rollers and smear a liberal coat on the bearing face when installing. Remember they get no other lubrication and are not lubricated from the rear end lubricant. The inner seal should keep all rear end lubricant out of the bearing area. In your case it doe sound like they should be replaced.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#134420
10/11/08 01:50 PM
10/11/08 01:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,153 Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,153
Mass
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Quote:
I sell green bearings for $60 pair. Price includes gaskets and bearing retainers.
That's a good price!......really can't beat that
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#134421
10/11/08 03:32 PM
10/11/08 03:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
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Quote:
I offered a detailed explanation several times in the past.
In fact, I just spent 45 minutes typing another detailed reply. When I hit the submit button, the computer locked up and I lost everything I typed.
I'm not in the mood to type it again.
OK, I'll make it easier, you said:
An adjustable, Set 7 bearing is a needlessly complicated design that weakens the differential,
"Needlessly" is a relative judgement but how does it weaken the differential compared to the Green?
limits side gear spline engagement,
In a stock differential?
and is prone to leakage and dirt/water contamination in many applications.
Only if submerged in water or improperly installed. The seals on the Green have limits too.
In addition, axle flange stand-out is not held constant unless you blueprint the axle lengths.
That's the one I don't get. Please explain.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: CJK440]
#134423
10/11/08 04:05 PM
10/11/08 04:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
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With an adjustment spec of .008"-.018" the difference in standout is gonna cause what problem that is so serious that in needs the Greens to rectify? Sorry, I don't buy it.
With a production run of tens of thousands of housings/axles, there will likely be a lot more inconsistency from that than the bearing choice.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#134424
10/11/08 04:58 PM
10/11/08 04:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016 Polson, MT
DoctorDiff
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
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An adjustable, Set 7 bearing is a needlessly complicated design that weakens the differential:
The bearing is flipped around backward, so the race is captive between it and the axle flange. This means the bearing must float in the housing end and requires an adjuster, thrust block or thrust pin. Of course, an adjuster, thrust block or thrust pin must pass through the center of the differential. A hole drilled in the cross shaft of a 4 pinion carrier creates a stress riser that is prone to breaking. A 2 pinon carrier allows the thrust block to pass around it unobstructed, but the 2 pinion design also limits the differential's strength.
Limits side gear spline engagement:
Axle spline engagement also suffers because the width of the thrust block (which must have room to slide side to side) protrudes into the splined area of the side gears. This limits spline engagement in differentials with a 2 piece cone or clutch-hub/side gear arrangement.
Is prone to leakage and dirt/water contamination in many applications:
Beaded steel and foam gaskets don't keep water from running into the housing end and into the non-sealed wheel bearing. Don't forget to check your A7 wheel bearings if you ever back a boat into the water.
Axle flange stand-out is not held constant unless you blueprint the axle lengths:
Measure the axle flange stand-out on both sides of any stock 8 3/4" rearend. Because of production tolerances, a single adjuster causes the axle flange to stick out farther on 1 side than the other. The length of both axles, and the housing width is critically dependont on each other. Because everyone uses tape measurements to specify axle and housing lengths, making a set of axles with adjustable set 7 wheel bearings for a custom application is very hard. Axle flange standout varies greatly unless the axles are cut long, installed then blue printed to length.
Most of these problems could have been avoided if the "engineer" who designed the system would have flipped the bearings around so the race would seat against a machined step inside the housing end. This would require no adjustment, no thrust buttons and the axle lengths wouldn't be critical.
I thought about making special billet housing ends that would accept non adjustable set 7 tapered wheel bearings. Then I realized the design wouldn't sell because there is really nothing wrong with snap-ring style Green bearings.
Green bearings make my life easier. I sell at least 500 a year, and my customer's rarely have problems with them. In contrast, almost every time I sell set 7 bearings, the customer has installation questions/problems.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#134425
10/11/08 06:31 PM
10/11/08 06:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
In contrast, almost every time I sell set 7 bearings, the customer has installation questions/problems.
Probably because said customer makes a simple job a whole lot more complicated than it is. It isn't aero space science to pack and adjust a set of tapered bearings and rarely OEM were a problem. In fact I venture that the vast majority of 8 3/4 at a JY have never had a bearing failure and that they are still usable with no problems. It isn't as if you have to periodically readjust. Once properly greased &set up leave along for many thousand trouble free miles. It is bound to be easier for you to install a set of greens on an axle and tell the customer to plug and play, no adjustment needed.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: MoparforLife]
#134426
10/11/08 06:45 PM
10/11/08 06:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,907 U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,907
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
In contrast, almost every time I sell set 7 bearings, the customer has installation questions/problems.
Probably because said customer makes a simple job a whole lot more complicated than it is. It isn't aero space science to pack and adjust a set of tapered bearings and rarely OEM were a problem. In fact I venture that the vast majority of 8 3/4 at a JY have never had a bearing failure and that they are still usable with no problems. It isn't as if you have to periodically readjust. Once properly greased &set up leave along for many thousand trouble free miles. It is bound to be easier for you to install a set of greens on an axle and tell the customer to plug and play, no adjustment needed.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: MoparforLife]
#134427
10/11/08 07:28 PM
10/11/08 07:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016 Polson, MT
DoctorDiff
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
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Exactly. Some of those "said customers" are the same people who used to post on Moparts about how easy tapered bearings install and adjust. I wish everyone had the opportunity to spec and install a new pair of axles for use with an early power-lock, adjustable Set 7 bearings and a custom width housing.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#134428
10/11/08 07:44 PM
10/11/08 07:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
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Quote:
An adjustable, Set 7 bearing is a needlessly complicated design that weakens the differential:
Sorry, Cass, I think you're exaggerating this for the sake of argument.
Quote:
Limits side gear spline engagement:
I don't agree that this 1/8" is a big deal.
Quote:
Is prone to leakage and dirt/water contamination in many applications
So why not an epidemic of failures in the 25+ year history of this design? Anything that is misused is subject to failure.
Quote:
Axle flange standout varies greatly unless the axles are cut long, installed then blue printed to length.
Greatly? How much we talkin' here? .030" total? Seems the factory had no problems in mass production.
Quote:
Most of these problems could have been avoided if the "engineer" who designed the system would have flipped the bearings around so the race would seat against a machined step inside the housing end. This would require no adjustment, no thrust buttons and the axle lengths wouldn't be critical.
I doubt that production tolerances would allow that design because, without adjusters, the bearing retainer would either preload the bearing or let it run loose.
Quote:
there is really nothing wrong with snap-ring style Green bearings.
That's the point of conjecture, look in any ball bearing catalog and they'll state the maximum allowable side load for a given ball bearing. Bearings without a loading slot are limited to the number of balls and are therefore more load-limited than a bearing with a loading slot. Loading slots would be inappropriate for a side loaded bearing like the Green.
The tapered bearing is superior in handling the thrust loads they're subjected to in turns.
Quote:
Green bearings make my life easier.
IMHO, that's the absolute worst reason to replace the factory bearing with them.
Quote:
I sell at least 500 a year, and my customer's rarely have problems with them.
You sell them because you recommend them to your customers. Don't always assume that because you don't hear of a problem it doesn't occur.
Quote:
In contrast, almost every time I sell set 7 bearings, the customer has installation questions/problems.
Come on, Cass, don't blame the bearing for people's inability to properly install/adjust them. I have never had a problem installing or adjusting a factory bearing.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#134430
10/11/08 08:50 PM
10/11/08 08:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,314 Carstairs, Alberta, Canada
dave571
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,314
Carstairs, Alberta, Canada
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Quote:
Sorry, Cass, I think you're exaggerating this for the sake of argument.
I think this statement can be applied to a lot points on both sides of this debate.
This debate is always heated, and is always pointless.
It boils down to this....
The tapered bearings are stonger in corners. I don't think there is an argument there. OK fine.
The green design has been used in thousands of street mopars, and MILLIONS of brand X cars, so it's perfectly fine too.
Use whatever kind you like and be happy.
I like greens for thier simplicity and use them alot. BUT I won't replace perfectly good stock ones just for the sake of having new stuff.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#134431
10/11/08 08:58 PM
10/11/08 08:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016 Polson, MT
DoctorDiff
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
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1. "I don't agree that this 1/8" is a big deal"
I have a 5 gallon bucket half full of stripped out power-lock side gears with partial spline engagement that suggests otherwise.
2. "So why not an epidemic of failures in the 25+ year history of this design. Anything that is misused is subject to failure"
Although my dad is on his 4th set of A-7 bearings in his 66 Ford pickup, comared to his original set of sealed ball bearings in his '65 Ford pickup, I never said there was an epidemic of failure. Both pickups were used in the summer to load a boat into the water. BTW, I'm still waiting to hear about the epidemic failures of the thousands of snap ring Green bearings I sold.
3. "Greatly? How much we talkin' here? .030" total? Seems the factory had no problems in mass production"
Did you even read my explanation about tape measurements and custom housing/axle lengths?
4. "I doubt that production tolerances would allow that design because, without adjusters, the bearing retainer would either preload the bearing or let it run loose"
Are you aware that MILLIONS of Ford 9" rears built in the '70s and early '80s run non adjustable tapered roller bearings (Set 20) that bottom out on a machined step in the housing?
5. "That's the point of conjecture, look in any ball bearing catalog and they'll state the maximum allowable side load for a given ball bearing. Bearings without a loading slot are limited to the number of balls and are therefore more load-limited than a bearing with a loading slot. Loading slots would be inappropriate for a side loaded bearing like the Green. The tapered bearing is superior in handling the thrust loads they're subjected to in turns"
Of course the tapered bearing itsself is stronger. Did I ever say it wasn't? Just because X is stronger than Y, that doesn't make Y junk. Application is everyting.
6. "Green bearings make my life easier. IMHO, that's the absolute worst reason to replace the factory bearing with them"
Why are you arguing with this fact? I would never get anything done if I had to constantly diagnose set 7 wheel bearing installation problems over the phone. When I sell a pair of axles with Green bearings, I don't hear back from the customer until he is ready to order a pair for another car.
How do you suggest I make set 7 equipped axles the exact correct length, when all I have to go by is the customer's tape measurement in a non stock application? In addition, most people don't want to pay me more to put used adjusters on new axles and to blueprint the axle lengths even if I do have the housing in front of me.
7. "Come on, Cass, don't blame the bearing for people's inability to properly install/adjust them. I have never had a problem installing or adjusting a factory bearing"
Neither have I, but that doesn't negate the fact that MOST customers DO have problems. Just for the record, I offer Timken set 7 wheel bearings as an option on every pair of custom axles I do for stock housing widths over the phone. Moser, Strange, Dutchman, and Mark Williams don't.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#134436
10/13/08 02:57 PM
10/13/08 02:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,618
Rio Linda, CA
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DoctorDiff wrote: Quote:
I have a 5 gallon bucket half full of stripped out power-lock side gears with partial spline engagement that suggests otherwise.
A previous regular (Dennis) on this forum claimed to have a bucket full of failed Greens. Go figure.
What percentage of Greens are used on stock factory axles compared to aftermarket? The factory axle usually has 1/8" of chamfer at the end, if the Greens position the axle in the same relative position, the spline engagement is the same so what's gained?
The only time your argument holds water is if longer-than- stock aftermarket axles are used. How often are aftermarket axles spec'd longer than stock compare to stock?
Once again the "uneducated" argument can be used to argue one versus the other.
Quote:
Did you even read my explanation about tape measurements and custom housing/axle lengths?
Sarcasm noted. You're making an argument based on the use of aftermarket axles while seeming to advocate the use of Greens as being accceptable across the board.
Again I'll ask, do you have verifiable statistics on the percentage of Greens used on stock versus aftermarket? If so, I'm all ears.
Quote:
Of course the tapered bearing itsself is stronger. Did I ever say it wasn't? Just because X is stronger than Y, that doesn't make Y junk. Application is everyting.
Never said they were junk (I occasionally use them myself), you're arguing that "there is nothing wrong with the Green Bearing" which, as you state, depends on application. IOW the Green isn't an across-the-board suitable replacement.
Quote:
Why are you arguing with this fact? I would never get anything done if I had to constantly diagnose set 7 wheel bearing installation problems over the phone.
Once again you're basing your argument on something other than the bearing itself. I used to be in the TF transmission business and spent a lot of time on the phone diagnosing problems caused by installer errors; should I have just told them to get a TurboHydro?
Quote:
How do you suggest I make set 7 equipped axles the exact correct length, when all I have to go by is the customer's tape measurement in a non stock application?
Ever tried math? And, again you're basing your argument on the use of aftermarket pieces. If someone just wants to replace worn out bearings in a stock rear end would you recommend the Greens simply because they're easier?
Many contributors to this forum have flatly stated that they replaced their factory bearings with Greens simply because they didn't want to be bothered with the adjuster. That's a sad testament to laziness.
Quote:
In addition, most people don't want to pay me more to put used adjusters on new axles and to blueprint the axle lengths even if I do have the housing in front of me.
Ever consider that the reason nobody is making the effort to repop the factory adjusters is because everybody is recommending the Greens?
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: 446acuda]
#134438
10/13/08 06:16 PM
10/13/08 06:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,037 Texas, Dallas
G_T
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,037
Texas, Dallas
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Quote:
No comment on tapered vs. Green but it's not a bad idea to go with Ford 3.15" sealed bearings/ends when building a Dana or 8-3/4 from scratch. Strong, simple and you can use junkyard Explorer disc brakes.
Exactly! I'll have a new Dana 60 built and will put on the Big Ford ends (sometimes called the big torino ends). Be done with it.
1970 Charger - V10, 6spd, Alterkation, Street Lynx 4 Link, Moser Dana 60, Wilwood 14" disks, Forgeline 18" Wheels (Rear:335's), ISIS Multiplexing Wiring http://www.v10mopar.com
2012 Charger SRT8
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#134439
10/14/08 01:33 AM
10/14/08 01:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016 Polson, MT
DoctorDiff
master
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master
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Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
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My orignal post was a response to this quote:
"A tapered Timken bearing is a beautiful engineering masterpiece."
I don't agree an adjustable Set 7 bearing is an "engineering masterpiece". I think it is a mediocre design, which is needlessly complicated and it causes several problems which I listed.
I am explaining if the "engineer" would have flipped the set 7 bearings around like the set 20 tapered units available in Ford rearends, several problems would have been avoided.
Whenever I sell an axle package, I always ask the customer if he wants the axles stock length, or if he wants to remove the thrust block so I can make the axles 1/8" longer to acheive maximum spline engagement for his vintage, narrow side gears. If I didn't think this was important, I wouldn't mention it.
I really do have a bucket half full of stripped out side gears with partial spline engagement. If Dennis has a bucket full of broken Green wheel berings, I bet they are the troublesome RP-400 first generation units with the crimped on flange still sold through Mopar Performance. The bind created causes the bearing to wear out quickly or the retainer breaks off when installed in a housing that isn't perfectly straight. I have never endorsed that bearing, and I only recommend tapered bearings for trucks. "Application is everything".
You didn't recommend installing TurboHydros if someone has problems with TF transmissions just like I don't recommend installing Ford 9" rearends if someone has a problem adjusting their Mopar wheel bearings.
You imply I never machine a new axle to work with adjustable wheel bearings. I have probably done more than most other drivetrain guys. In fact, I did a set today.
It is not a matter of "trying math", it is a matter of getting an accurate measurement on a customer's custom housing, which is not in front of me. How do I even know if it is narrowed evenly on both sides? Tolerances don't have to be off very far to create minimal spline engagement on 1 side.
In addition,(once again) "most people don't want to pay me more to put used adjusters on new axles and to blueprint the axle lengths."
I would guess the reason new adjusters are not available, is because most people don't have problems with snap ring style green bearings.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: 71autoxr]
#134440
10/14/08 07:22 AM
10/14/08 07:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 403 30 miles west of EuroDisney
fbernard
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 403
30 miles west of EuroDisney
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Quote:
I second the motion. I replaced to greens at least a decade ago. So far I have years of autocrossing, two track days as well as tens of thousands of miles of spirited driving - no failure yet.
A friend's car I installed a Wilwood disc brake kit on (which required snap-ring green bearings) is currently on its 4th set of bearings in under 2 years. The previous set (the 3rd) survived road use and drag racing easily. But rally and spirited driving killed it in ONE DAY.
My car did the same with tapered bearings (no rear discs), and they're still fine. They're at least 15 years old.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#134441
10/14/08 07:32 AM
10/14/08 07:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,042 Slidell, La.
doctor_mopar
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,042
Slidell, La.
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I'm in agreement with the Doc all the way. I have seen many ruined tapered bearings ( going back 40 years), most due to so called professional ( however generic make ) mechanics improperly adjusting, or installing all components with the tapred bearings. By the way, I just had a call yesterday from a local alignment and repair shop needing an E body axle for a customer, because they ruined one improperly installing a tapered bearing axle. Stupid , but real life ! I have also had experience with the different versions of the Green bearings, and agree that the snap ring version the Doc recommends work well. I have found them very usefull in custom situations, and where other coponents are missing or not available as needed with the tapered bearing. i have also run the Greens for many thousans of trouble free miles on the street ! Under ideal conditions the tapered will probably hold more load. Under real world installation and use on our automobiles, the Greens are probably the best choice 9 out of 10 times. I have been successful with installation of both many times, but I will take the Greens most the time !
------------------------ It doesn't matter what you do.........As long as you look good doing it !
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: fbernard]
#134443
10/14/08 10:02 AM
10/14/08 10:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016 Polson, MT
DoctorDiff
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
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Fabien,
I'm guessing your friend has the Wilwood kit with parking brake shoes in the rotor hat. Did you install the snap ring directly against the housing end? Unfortunately, Wilwood's instructions don't mention you must use the 5 hole retainer that comes with the bearings as a shim to properly space the axles away from the differential internals. Otherwise, constant preloading will destroy the wheel bearings.
Last edited by DoctorDiff; 10/14/08 10:06 AM.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: fbernard]
#134444
10/14/08 10:50 AM
10/14/08 10:50 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568 Omaha, Nebraska
Scott Carl
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568
Omaha, Nebraska
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Quote:
Quote:
I second the motion. I replaced to greens at least a decade ago. So far I have years of autocrossing, two track days as well as tens of thousands of miles of spirited driving - no failure yet.
A friend's car I installed a Wilwood disc brake kit on (which required snap-ring green bearings) is currently on its 4th set of bearings in under 2 years. The previous set (the 3rd) survived road use and drag racing easily. But rally and spirited driving killed it in ONE DAY.
My car did the same with tapered bearings (no rear discs), and they're still fine. They're at least 15 years old.
First a question and then a comment with more questions Are Green bearings a "brand of bearing or a style that uses a typical sealed ball type bearing? Does Green manufature their own bearings or do they buy them from vendor and assemble the kits? I tried googling Green bearings and only came up with forums like this one or old history (1930s) about the original Green company. Who makes these bearings??? ok several questions...
I ask these questions because I'm really torn here. I have seen testimony both ways. As people are using these ball bearing under condition that are considered by many to be adverse to their design, I have to wonder if there aren't other factors at play. What is making some Greens fail where others last "forever" under what guys are decribing as mild to severe abuse and or "spirited driving", and what would make a tapered bearing fail under conditions that they were made for? Poor fit up?, Is the supplier of the Greens the same each time? Maybe they have a defective batch. I'm hoping to change these bearings once. The stock ones lasted 102,000 in 34 years and failed only because they went swimming for three days and then sat to dry in time I'm a 53 year old kid I plan to do some spirited driving myself but I don't want the first thing my grandaughter has to do to is is changer axle bearings. Like I said, I'm still torn.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#134448
10/14/08 03:17 PM
10/14/08 03:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016 Polson, MT
DoctorDiff
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
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Are Set 7 adjustable bearings an engineering masterpiece? No. Are Set 7 bearings suited for all applicatoins? No.
Are Green bearings an engineering masterpiece? No. Are Green bearings suited for all applications? No. I would love to see a tapered version of the MO-400 design Green wheel bearing.
Once again, here is what I originally posted in this thread: "Although most people won't have problems with the snap-ring style Green bearing (not the crimped on flange, RP-400 design still sold by Mopar Performance), the non-adjustable, 3.15" bore Timken set 20 tapered bearing is the strongest, commonly available wheel bearing. Unfortunatley, special housing ends are required to run this bearing on a Mopar application."
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#134450
10/14/08 03:27 PM
10/14/08 03:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808
Kirkland, Washington
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From Mopar Action: Found by a yahoo search of 'Mopar green axle bearings'. right or wrong
"Ray, the Greens are low-capacity ball bearings...maybe 1/10 the side-load capacity of the stock Timkens. They are fine for drag racing, pretty lousy on the street, and pretty scary if you're into cornering or towing! (Admittedly, I've never personally seen one catastrophically fail, but I've seen plenty get noisy and sloppy).
The Fords are sealed rollers, way better than balls. The reason why you don't see more of 'em is 'cause they require you to weld on custom axle housing "ends". I have featured these earlier in the mag, as a way to dump the C-clips on 8.25 and 9.25" axles.
I also must add that, except that they require more care during assembly (packing with lube, endplay adjustment, etc.) the stock Timken tapered roller setup is about as good as it gets.
Rick"
OBVIOUSLY many people disagree
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#134451
10/14/08 04:54 PM
10/14/08 04:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC
446acuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,734
Charlotte, NC
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Quote:
From Mopar Action: Found by a yahoo search of 'Mopar green axle bearings'. right or wrong
"The Fords are sealed rollers, way better than balls. Rick"
OBVIOUSLY many people disagree
WRONG! Fords are sealed ball bearings. Here is an OE Ford 3.15" sealed bearing with the shield removed. Obviously a ball bearing.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#134452
10/14/08 08:39 PM
10/14/08 08:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,042 Slidell, La.
doctor_mopar
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,042
Slidell, La.
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Just had a shop manager bring an axle by to match up for a replacement I had. A local machine shop had pressed the tapered bearing on backwards, and the shop had intalled it that way !
------------------------ It doesn't matter what you do.........As long as you look good doing it !
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: doctor_mopar]
#134453
10/14/08 08:51 PM
10/14/08 08:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,253 Florida STAYcation
dIc dOc Deity !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,253
Florida STAYcation
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Will the mean-greenie ever die ? ... NO way. But I have been doing this stuff for longer than most here have been alive. And I have never seen a bad set of Timkens .... ever !!! And I have seen some that probably should have been changed ... but I cleaned-em-up and GREASED-em-up(well) and went on my way. The greenies ? ... if you eyeball them the wrong-way -- they . Now I am not saying the Timkens do not fail .... but in no way in the same #'s as the balls.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: doctor_mopar]
#134454
10/14/08 09:03 PM
10/14/08 09:03 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,195 Snowing in the north!
Dart 340
moparts member
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moparts member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,195
Snowing in the north!
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Quote:
Just had a shop manager bring an axle by to match up for a replacement I had. A local machine shop had pressed the tapered bearing on backwards, and the shop had intalled it that way !
I think many people do that! They install it like a front wheel bearing.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: 446acuda]
#134455
10/14/08 09:05 PM
10/14/08 09:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,195 Snowing in the north!
Dart 340
moparts member
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moparts member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,195
Snowing in the north!
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Quote:
Quote:
From Mopar Action: Found by a yahoo search of 'Mopar green axle bearings'. right or wrong
"The Fords are sealed rollers, way better than balls. Rick"
OBVIOUSLY many people disagree
WRONG! Fords are sealed ball bearings. Here is an OE Ford 3.15" sealed bearing with the shield removed. Obviously a ball bearing.
At least that one has a steel ball carrier, the greens I had used a plastic carrier.....
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: Dart 340]
#134456
10/14/08 09:14 PM
10/14/08 09:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
Quote:
Just had a shop manager bring an axle by to match up for a replacement I had. A local machine shop had pressed the tapered bearing on backwards, and the shop had intalled it that way !
I think many people do that! They install it like a front wheel bearing.
Like I said above the biggest failure rate is due to installation error, not bearing quality. It doesn't take any thought to install green bearings.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#134460
10/15/08 01:12 PM
10/15/08 01:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 403 30 miles west of EuroDisney
fbernard
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 403
30 miles west of EuroDisney
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Quote:
Fabien,
If the snap ring seats against the housing end, each axle will insert 1/8" deeper than they are intended. The thrust block inside the carrier will preload and destroy the wheel bearings.
Cass, I agree it could have been the case with the previous center section (we did install the brakes before changing the diff).
But with the new one we bought from you (3.55 gears/489 housing/1350 yoke/Truetrac diff), we left out the thrust block. Axles should be spaced apart.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: fig426]
#134461
10/17/08 12:57 PM
10/17/08 12:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533 Indiana
Fury Fan
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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This topic is a good example of one of my favorite phrases: 'Just because someone knows how to work on things doesn't mean they know how things work.' There are good points (and bad points) brought up by both sides here. About a year ago I found a copy of this article, today I was able to find it on the web. I encourage everyone with an interest in this topic to read this article and learn a little about bearings. It clearly explains the advantage the tapered bearing has over a roller bearing in a wheel bearing application. The factory application/designs have a Factor Of Safety associated with them, and it's evidently high enough that a lower-capacity roller bearing can be installed in its place without a tremendous amount of failures. The roller bearing is clearly inferior to the tapered roller from a load-bearing perspective, however there are other factors in a rear axle application that are the reason this topic brings passionate feelings from both sides. We should focus on simple things like engine oil or filters instead. As for me, I'll stick with my Timken rollers, clean/re-grease them periodically, and worry about my other worries instead... http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedien/m...here_roller.pdf
Parts I seek:
driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set
16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better.
69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields
Send a PM.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: Fury Fan]
#134462
10/17/08 01:07 PM
10/17/08 01:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568 Omaha, Nebraska
Scott Carl
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568
Omaha, Nebraska
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Quote:
This topic is a good example of one of my favorite phrases: 'Just because someone knows how to work on things doesn't mean they know how things work.' There are good points (and bad points) brought up by both sides here.
About a year ago I found a copy of this article, today I was able to find it on the web. I encourage everyone with an interest in this topic to read this article and learn a little about bearings. It clearly explains the advantage the tapered bearing has over a roller bearing in a wheel bearing application.
The factory application/designs have a Factor Of Safety associated with them, and it's evidently high enough that a lower-capacity roller bearing can be installed in its place without a tremendous amount of failures.
The roller bearing is clearly inferior to the tapered roller from a load-bearing perspective, however there are other factors in a rear axle application that are the reason this topic brings passionate feelings from both sides. We should focus on simple things like engine oil or filters instead.
As for me, I'll stick with my Timken rollers, clean/re-grease them periodically, and worry about my other worries instead...
http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedien/m...here_roller.pdf
Awesome article! Very informative. Thanks, FF Scott
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: Scott Carl]
#134463
10/17/08 09:13 PM
10/17/08 09:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,197 Omaha Ne
TJP
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,197
Omaha Ne
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Timkens here, roller bearings are for roller skates, chevy's and Ford's. My Tim
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: TJP]
#134464
10/18/08 07:48 AM
10/18/08 07:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
Timkens here, roller bearings are for roller skates, chevy's and Ford's.
My
Tim
Roller skates I have seen have ball bearings. Skateboards too. The OEM 8 3/4 bearing is a tapered roller. Just because it say Timkin doesn't make it a tapered roller. They make all kinds of bearings. And not only Timkin makes bearings for this application that fit and work.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: I go fast]
#134466
10/18/08 09:39 AM
10/18/08 09:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200 Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
But,Timkin introduced the tapered roller,others copied!
In 1898 they were patented by Timkin. My point above is that the posted info is incorrect. The 8 1/4 rear uses a caged non-tapered roller bearing with the axle itself as the inner race. A lot of the time if a bearing goes south it takes the axle with it
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: fbernard]
#134467
10/18/08 11:33 AM
10/18/08 11:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 693 Coronado, CA
go-fish
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 693
Coronado, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Fabien,
I'm guessing your friend has the Wilwood kit with parking brake shoes in the rotor hat.
Yep, that's the one. Wilwood kit 140-7144 .
Quote:
Did you install the snap ring directly against the housing end? Unfortunately, Wilwood's instructions don't mention you must use the 5 hole retainer that comes with the bearings as a shim to properly space the axles away from the differential internals. Otherwise, constant preloading will destroy the wheel bearings.
Ooops! you're right, we never used this retainer (thanks Wilwood). We'll try and see what happens.
Thanks Cass!
Edit : when we installed the kit, the axles did not touch each other. Where would the preloading come from? is the housing not deep enough for the bearing?
Looks like I have some work to do. I have the same Wilwood kit and never driven it. I have just rolled it from spot to spot. I noticed recently a screeching noise. I bet it is already screwed up because I didn't use this 5 hole spacer.
Dr. Diff, how much are your Green Bearings and do they come with the 5 hole spacer? Can I just buy the 5 hole spacer if the bearings aren't torn up? I have just pushed it to and fro a total of 100 yards in the past year.
70 'cuda: ProCharged 408, Tremec 5 speed, S60,triangulated 4 link, Hydroboost and Wilwoods
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#134469
10/18/08 12:11 PM
10/18/08 12:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 693 Coronado, CA
go-fish
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 693
Coronado, CA
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I'm going to go out now and pull the brakes and take a look. It was a year ago but I went straight off Wilwoods instructions so if it didn't say to do it I didn't do it.
70 'cuda: ProCharged 408, Tremec 5 speed, S60,triangulated 4 link, Hydroboost and Wilwoods
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: go-fish]
#134470
10/18/08 04:32 PM
10/18/08 04:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 693 Coronado, CA
go-fish
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 693
Coronado, CA
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Doctor Diff,
Alright, I disassembled the brakes and I did not use the five hole 1/8" plate. I did some digging and luckily found them.
So what you are saying is I need to install those against the axle flange and then re-assemble the Wilwood kit as it was?
This is not my photo but the five hole plate with the flat top is what I've got, just to make sure. I found the Wilwood instructions and it does not mention using this.
Thank God I have not driven with it like this. And thak you Dr. Diff. Wilwood dropped the ball on this.
BTW, this is on an S-60. I didn't find out about Dr. Diff until after I purchased the rear. If only I would have known I would have saved money and headaches I would have given my buisness to Dr. Diff.
I told Strange I was going to use the kit. They sell Baer or something and they told me they didn't recommend Wilwood. I asked them why and they could not tell me so I assumed it was because they were trying to sell me another companies brakes and wuldn't make any money there. I already have the Wilwood fronts that came with my Alter-k-tion. I am not satisfied with thier customer service.
Also, when I pulled the axle a ton of fluid came out like it was over filled. I am thinking now that thier diff girdle housing oil level plug is located a little high. What is the fluid capacity of a Dana.
It says alot about a guy that helps out when you didn't even give him buisness. Thanks again Doctor.
70 'cuda: ProCharged 408, Tremec 5 speed, S60,triangulated 4 link, Hydroboost and Wilwoods
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: go-fish]
#134471
10/18/08 06:12 PM
10/18/08 06:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759 So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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I just installed a set from Doctordiff today here is a picture of the order I put them on the axle. The plate first, the gasket can be added later to prevent ripping, then the bearing, collar, and the seal goes in the housing. If you are working with a jack on the ground, jack the side you are working on a little higher than the other side and do one side at a time. The oil will stay in the rear end that way.
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: go-fish]
#134474
10/19/08 12:59 AM
10/19/08 12:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 693 Coronado, CA
go-fish
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 693
Coronado, CA
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I think this is a better scan. Please show where exactly the 5 hole flange that comes with the bearings goes.
70 'cuda: ProCharged 408, Tremec 5 speed, S60,triangulated 4 link, Hydroboost and Wilwoods
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: go-fish]
#134475
10/19/08 03:56 AM
10/19/08 03:56 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759 So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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Ok, Sorry I’m thinking of getting the same brake setup as you so I want to understand the setup too, better for me to learn now. Please confirm if you have the 140-7144 brake setup, because here are the instructions in PDF form. https://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/900/950/950-140-7144-D.pdfAccording to the instructions it states you need to remove the stock floating retainer and install the one that comes in the kit. According to the figure 7 both the backing plate and the bearing retainer is used to retain the bearing. This is stated in the paragraph to the left of figure 7. Right? Sorry to the OP this is way OT now. Should of started a new topic. Anyone for pancakes?
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: quick77rt ]
#134479
10/19/08 12:08 PM
10/19/08 12:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 693 Coronado, CA
go-fish
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 693
Coronado, CA
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And this thread will still be going!
70 'cuda: ProCharged 408, Tremec 5 speed, S60,triangulated 4 link, Hydroboost and Wilwoods
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: go-fish]
#134481
10/19/08 02:08 PM
10/19/08 02:08 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568 Omaha, Nebraska
Scott Carl
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568
Omaha, Nebraska
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Quote:
And this thread will still be going!
I got my questions answered, so carry on I'm still readin' anyway
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: Scott Carl]
#134482
10/19/08 02:11 PM
10/19/08 02:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
And this thread will still be going!
I got my questions answered, so carry on I'm still readin' anyway
Tapered Rollers are better....
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: HealthServices]
#134484
10/19/08 02:36 PM
10/19/08 02:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And this thread will still be going!
I got my questions answered, so carry on I'm still readin' anyway
Tapered Rollers are better....
No I really think Bushings are better and the grease of champions is Bacon grease!
Only if you're using the vastly superior NYLON bushings! I've seen the bacon grease incompatability with brass bushings happen all too often.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#134489
10/19/08 08:26 PM
10/19/08 08:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 693 Coronado, CA
go-fish
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 693
Coronado, CA
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I guess Strange doesnt put a thrust block in the diff because I measured the axle and from the flange to inside of the splines and the ends of the axle wont be hitting anything in there. All the measurements show that there will be no pre-load. Is this sounding right?
What does the thrust block look like? It is inside the third member? Forgive me but I don't know the internal parts of a diff very well but there is a shaft or rod thing in between the two axle ends directly in the center. If that is the thrust block the axle ends don't touch it anyway.
I re-assembled everything without the 5 hole retainers since the measurements showed clear and I would hate to do this all over again slightly less than I would want to burn up bearings.
70 'cuda: ProCharged 408, Tremec 5 speed, S60,triangulated 4 link, Hydroboost and Wilwoods
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#134491
10/19/08 09:24 PM
10/19/08 09:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759 So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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What is required to remove this? I assume it is not something you just knock out right?
Last edited by HealthServices; 10/19/08 09:33 PM.
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: 446acuda]
#134493
10/19/08 10:33 PM
10/19/08 10:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 693 Coronado, CA
go-fish
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 693
Coronado, CA
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I guess, luckiy for me, Strange didn't put one in mine
70 'cuda: ProCharged 408, Tremec 5 speed, S60,triangulated 4 link, Hydroboost and Wilwoods
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: B G Racing]
#134497
10/24/08 12:03 AM
10/24/08 12:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031 Erda, UT
67Charger
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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I know that losing the thrust block is an option, but there is another thing to consider. This setup leaves the snap-ring against the axle housing flange, but the entry is chamfered. The snap ring would only touch the flange at the extreme outer edge of the ring. I would want to use the old loose plate back there anyway just to give the snap-ring a solid purchase. Trouble is, if you cut a piece out of the old one to get it off teh axle, it can no longer fully support the snap-ring. You would need a new plate, or a new lock ring for when you R+R the bearings to get the plate off w/o damage.
Just a point to ponder.
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor 10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: 67Charger]
#134500
10/28/08 02:29 AM
10/28/08 02:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031 Erda, UT
67Charger
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,031
Erda, UT
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So where do the flange gaskets go, and which one where? If there is a steel spacer plate in there, does that need an extra gasket? Do you use any at all? The o-ring and seal SHOULD do it, but... ????
11.33 @ 118.46 on motor 10.75 @ 125.35 w/ a little spray Now, high Speed Open Road Racing - Silver State Classic Challenge, Nevada Open Road Challenge, Big Bend Open Road Race Rocky Mountain Race Week 2020, 2022 2.0, Sick Week 2023
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: The70RT]
#134503
11/02/08 04:01 PM
11/02/08 04:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,734 Charlotte, NC
446acuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,734
Charlotte, NC
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Quote:
I removed mine and I could turn the adjuster with my fingers like it had no means to lock.
was the lock tab missing?
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: The70RT]
#134505
09/14/09 05:50 AM
09/14/09 05:50 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hi Dr.diff and all. A-body 8-3/4 axle, (shafts from you). Had a Yukon shaft failure with an old style sure-grip! The clutches slipped on one side and tore the end off the shaft??? I see the engagement into the inner drive gear is only around 3/16's of an inch. Is this a common fault with the split gear early locker??? I see the new style track-lok I got form you has a one piece side gear. Will it be ok to re-use the shaft with the new track-lok? Also heard different opnions on the inner axle seal? Leave it in or take it out, to stop overheating of the greens??? Thanks from England, Gtxjon.
Last edited by Gtxjon; 09/14/09 06:11 AM.
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