Re: A833 build questions
[Re: '84 D150 Shorty]
#1313905
10/01/12 10:44 PM
10/01/12 10:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
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There are a few parts that may be different like the front retainer and gasket but most all the other rollers,brass,and gaskets will be the same. If you are getting the parts from Brewers just let them know all the other parts you are using,they will ask the questions just be prepared with the answers including measurements of your bellhousing pilot hole. Gus 
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
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Re: A833 build questions
[Re: '84 D150 Shorty]
#1313906
10/01/12 11:46 PM
10/01/12 11:46 PM
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Looking for a way out of Middl...
IMGTX
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Quote:
1-can I use the cast iron case and swap the guts of my aluminum tyranny into it
Yes. Most OD 833's had an output shaft with the same size yoke as the 727, some used a 904 size output shaft / Yoke.
If you are reusing the same tail housing your OK either way.
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2-would I use the same rebuild kit for my aluminum tyranny or would I need a different kit
The front bearing will be a different size and so will the bearing retainer. Brewers can put the correct ones in the kit for you. The Gasket kits include all 3 size retainer gaskets so you will be OK. Make sure Wayne knows the year of transmission you are swapping into cast iron case and he will set you up.
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3- do I have to/need to get the cast iron side cover and tail piece also
No both will swap if you use the correct forks for the correct side cover.
I prefer the old style "Ball & Detent" over the later style "Interlock" side cover.
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Re: A833 build questions
[Re: '84 D150 Shorty]
#1313908
10/02/12 05:34 AM
10/02/12 05:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,974
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
I believe the cast iron OD case is also large bearing retainer compatible and I have the largest diameter bearing support bellhousing, not sure what type yoke I have...any additional strength benefit in the cast iron side cover and tail housing?
All truck/van od's have a cast iron tail housing I haven't seen one with an Aluminum one. The side cover depends , I doubt you'll notice a difference in the side cover unless you are switching to the early ball/detent style .
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Re: A833 build questions
[Re: JohnRR]
#1313910
10/02/12 11:45 AM
10/02/12 11:45 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
'84 D150 Shorty
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So it should already have a cast iron tail housing? That would be nice. So it looks lime I should be able to swap the guts of my aluminum OD case directly over to the cast iron case with no problem...and brewers can tell me if the kit I need will be any different...sound about right?
Last edited by '84 D150 Shorty; 10/02/12 02:14 PM.
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Re: A833 build questions
[Re: '84 D150 Shorty]
#1313911
10/02/12 12:22 PM
10/02/12 12:22 PM
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JohnRR
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Quote:
So it should already have a cast aluminum tail housing? That would be nice. So it looks lime I should be able to swap the guts of my aluminum OD case directly over to the cast iron case with problem...and brewers can tell me if the kit I need will be any different...sound about right?
Froms the sounds of it the aluminum tailhousing is not the norm , I haven't had a lot of them but I've never come across one with an alum tail that I can remember.
One thing you need to watch for is what kind of iron case will you get from Brewers? The Alum OD trans uses a shorter cluster gear pin and has a soft plug that goes on the bellhousing end to keep it from leaking because the shaft is a slip fit. A non OD 833 has a lightish press fit shaft that is longer , you can put the shorter shaft in the non OD case but it's going to leak ... been there , have the stain on the floor.
I don't know if the iron case OD uses the shorter shaft and soft plug and is a slip fit , but considering what is required to assemble the trans it must ??
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Re: A833 build questions
[Re: '84 D150 Shorty]
#1313912
10/02/12 01:32 PM
10/02/12 01:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
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Looking for a way out of Middl...
IMGTX
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Quote:
I have the largest diameter bearing support bellhousing,
There are 2 different size front bearings and 3 different size bearing retainers. Brewers can get you the correct one for your case or an adapter ring to make it work.
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not sure what type yoke I have...any additional strength benefit in the cast iron side cover and tail housing?
The weak link tends to be the countershaft bores in the aluminum case. I have never really heard of problems in the side covers or tailhousings. The countershaft wallows out the holes and lets the gears walk around a bit. Not good.
The other weak link is the interlock levers tend to break but this will happen if it is iron or aluminum side covers. Hence the reason I like the ball & Detent side covers.
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So it looks lime I should be able to swap the guts of my aluminum OD case directly over to the cast iron case with problem...and brewers can tell me if the kit I need will be any different...sound about right?
Yep. 
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Re: A833 build questions
[Re: '84 D150 Shorty]
#1313914
10/02/12 04:05 PM
10/02/12 04:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
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IMGTX
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The cast iron case uses a press fit (more like a tight fit) counter shaft and a half moon key that prevents it from rotating. The Aluminum cases used a floating counter shaft and are different. When you get the case make sure they include the counter shaft to support the cluster gear and the half moon key for the end of it. The bearings and pretty much everything else in the kit are pretty much the same. There were early and late style synchronizers. You will need the late style but Brewers will know that. When you get into it. 1. Inspect the inside of the cluster & other gears for galling. 2. Inspect the interlock levers for cracks. 3. Inspect the small teeth on the synchronizer sliders & gears for rounding or wear. 4. Inspect the flats on the shift levers & Shafts for rounding. Those are the most common wear items.
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Re: A833 build questions
[Re: IMGTX]
#1313915
10/02/12 04:19 PM
10/02/12 04:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
340SHORTY
Truck Nut
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Truck Nut
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
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Why do you want a cast iron case? I know it would be stronger. I have been running my aluminimum case OD for 12 years behind my 340 with no issues. The weak link is the cluster gear not the case..
I am truckless..
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Re: A833 build questions
[Re: IMGTX]
#1313918
10/02/12 05:28 PM
10/02/12 05:28 PM
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JohnRR
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Quote:
Yes counter shaft the shafts are the same dia but the Old style shaft for the cast iron case does not rotate. The 1/2 moon (woodruff) key on the end prevents that. I do not think they will interchange because of the length and the shaft is shorter on the OD trans to allow for the plug in the case at the end of the shaft and the OD shaft does not have the woodruff key slot.
The problem with the Aluminum case is that they used a floating counter shaft to make it quieter. Most new transmissions today do also but they either put a bushing or bearing in the case for support. The steel shaft rotating in the aluminum case leads to wallowed out holes in the aluminum case and the cluster gear begins to move. When the case wallows out and the cluster gear moves the trans get's noisy and the cluster gear fails.
The OD shaft also has a slot of a woodruff key which the Od trans uses , if the shaft was allowed to rotate it would wallow out that hole in a short time.
The OD shaft will and does fit in an Non OD trans. I bought one from a trans shop in NH not realizing it was the wrong one till I installed it , I had to tap it in place so I figure I was good to go till I had a puddle on the floor under my freshly rebuilt trans .
I was giving a heads up , you don't want to use the shorter shaft in the Iron case and also put some type of sealer in that hole before fully seating the pin if the case doesn't have a recess for a core plug .
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Re: A833 build questions
[Re: JohnRR]
#1313919
10/02/12 05:38 PM
10/02/12 05:38 PM
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Looking for a way out of Middl...
IMGTX
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Quote:
To correctly assemble and disassemble the OD trans the cluster pin needs to be removed and the cluster gear is sitting in the bottom of the case, install the main gear assembly in the trans , rotate the tailhousing so you have access to the cluster pin hole , lift the cluster into place with the thrust washers in place and slide the cluster pin into the trans. the cluster pin seats and unseats from it's bore on the front of the trans with very little if any force.
A trick here is to use a cut down counter shaft or a pipe inside the cluster gear to support the needle bearings that surround the counter shaft inside the cluster gear. I have used bearing grease also but prefer not to. Make it long enough to fit in the case and still hold the thrust washers on the end. When you lift the cluster gear up push the new shaft through and the cut down shaft (same as the miller tool) will push out the other side.
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The OD gears can be installed in a small bearing case and I'm not sure if there is the large OD retainer that fits this case or not , but a standard 833 23 spline retainer will work and then you wouldn't need the OD bellhousing .
I think Brewers or Passon can sell a retainer or adapter if you already have the OD case. I made an adapter for mine on a lathe out of aluminum.
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Re: A833 build questions
[Re: JohnRR]
#1313920
10/02/12 05:43 PM
10/02/12 05:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,233
Looking for a way out of Middl...
IMGTX
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I Live Here
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Quote:
Quote:
Yes counter shaft the shafts are the same dia but the Old style shaft for the cast iron case does not rotate. The 1/2 moon (woodruff) key on the end prevents that. I do not think they will interchange because of the length and the shaft is shorter on the OD trans to allow for the plug in the case at the end of the shaft and the OD shaft does not have the woodruff key slot.
The problem with the Aluminum case is that they used a floating counter shaft to make it quieter. Most new transmissions today do also but they either put a bushing or bearing in the case for support. The steel shaft rotating in the aluminum case leads to wallowed out holes in the aluminum case and the cluster gear begins to move. When the case wallows out and the cluster gear moves the trans get's noisy and the cluster gear fails.
The OD shaft also has a slot of a woodruff key which the Od trans uses , if the shaft was allowed to rotate it would wallow out that hole in a short time.
The OD shaft will and does fit in an Non OD trans. I bought one from a trans shop in NH not realizing it was the wrong one till I installed it , I had to tap it in place so I figure I was good to go till I had a puddle on the floor under my freshly rebuilt trans .
I was giving a heads up , you don't want to use the shorter shaft in the Iron case and also put some type of sealer in that hole before fully seating the pin if the case doesn't have a recess for a core plug .
I stand corrected then
Brewers does state that the shafts don't interchange from Cast iron to OD so it is a problem with length if guess.
I guess all the floating shafts I have found without keys were just a sign of that wonderful quality control Chrysler used to have. 
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Re: A833 build questions
[Re: IMGTX]
#1313921
10/02/12 07:04 PM
10/02/12 07:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 738
TN
'84 D150 Shorty
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TN
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So, I discovered that counter shaft is the same for 75-79 cast iron cases as the aluminum cases. It looks like both the cast iron overdrive case and the aluminum case are are made the same or a at least very similar. The difference in the counter shaft is going to be non od cast cast iron cases and boa both overdrive cast cast iron and aluminum cases. it it's looking like the case swap a case case to case deal. Looks like is going to b getting the correct rebuild rebuild kit as there 2 different kits, one four cast iron overdrive cases and one for aluminum overdrive cases. will putting putting the guts off the aluminum case into hey cast iron case brewers advice on the proper kit. Thank you for your input and keep the info coming!
Last edited by '84 D150 Shorty; 10/02/12 07:10 PM.
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