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Re: 727 Debug Questions [Re: Dodgem] #1305143
09/19/12 04:07 PM
09/19/12 04:07 PM
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YO7_A66 Offline OP
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Got it! Thank you.

Should I test drive the car after resetting the front band, or pull the pan and take a look inside?

Thank you!!


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: 727 Debug Questions [Re: YO7_A66] #1305144
09/19/12 04:15 PM
09/19/12 04:15 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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If the sprag failed pulling the pan you won't really see anything unless something popped out of it and I really don't think there is a way for parts to make it to the pan anyway .

Test drive, put the car in drive, if it won't move the sprag is damaged.

Re: 727 Debug Questions [Re: JohnRR] #1305145
09/19/12 04:26 PM
09/19/12 04:26 PM
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YO7_A66 Offline OP
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I will do so. Thank you again.


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: 727 Debug Questions [Re: YO7_A66] #1305146
09/20/12 08:12 PM
09/20/12 08:12 PM
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YO7_A66 Offline OP
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UPDATE:
I started up the car and while waiting on the temp to come up, the tranny starting BUZZZZZZZZZZ!
I knew what that meant so I put it in N to finish the warmup and found the tranny to be 1-3/4 quarts low on fluid It would not even read on the dip stick.

After I got the fluid level up, I drove the car forward and backward in the drive (slight incline) without any issues. Then I took it for a drive and it drove fine. I only got it up to around 45mph or so and I did not get on it because I just wanted to see if it would automatically shift/downshift at a cruise/at a stop. I also replaced the extension housing shaft seal and I wanted to get back to the garage to see if I had any leaks. No leaks and over the weekend I will drive it harder to see if the tranny is good to go.

Note: This is with the front band set at 1-3/4 turns out from 72"/lbs.

Thanks to everyone!!

EDIT:
Note: I have had a slow dripping leak at the extension housing seal for a while that I have ignored. Since it has been six years since I dropped the pan, I have forgot about the general maintenance of the tranny. This leak must have finally allowed too much fluid to drip out which seemed to be the major culprit of this issue. I now have a new extension housing seal, the front band readjusted and the proper fluid level.

Besides the obvious help from the tranny guru's on this sight, I came across a diagram that I found that was helpfull in trying to understand the replies to my thread. See attached for a good diagnostic reference chart. I know that it says loadflight, but it is still a good general reference.
If I ignored my tranny like this, just imagine what the condition of my windshield wiper blades must be in.

Last edited by YO7_A66; 09/21/12 08:10 AM.
Re: 727 Debug Questions [Re: YO7_A66] #1305147
09/23/12 05:40 PM
09/23/12 05:40 PM
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YO7_A66 Offline OP
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Update 2:
I got a chance to drive the car today and I need some more help.
The GOOD:
The tranny auto downshifted and upshifted perfectly at all times (light throttle and WOT). Idle to 100% WOT was excellent. 50-WOT was excellent. Auto downshift when coming to a stop, no problem. Overall the tranny shifted great.

The BAD:
I started up the car from a cold start IN PARK and about 30 seconds into high idle, a loud noise was coming from somewhere up front.

Note: This is the same loud noise that I heard on the last startup that I thought was due to the low fluid. This is the same noise that I heard (before I tightened the band and added the fluid) when I was driving thru the neighorbood in 2 (apx 20mph) and was slowing down to a stop. The noise is hard to explain but it was like a whining noise that even sounded like a vibration.

I could not locate the exact place, but it was somewhere up front. I shut the car off and let it set for about 15 minutes then I restarted the car in N. No noise in N this time so I took my test drive.

This has me stumped. The tranny acted great while driving, but it makes a really loud noise on cold startup in PARK (just like last time when I thought it meant low fluid.)

NOTE:
I FOUND THE PROBLEM WITH THE CAR LOCKING UP IN NEUTRAL. The reason that I could not move the car in N was because my passenger rear brake shoe was dragging REAL badly. I need to put a rebuild kit on the adjuster. The car locked up on me again today after my drive when I put it into N, and I thought that it was the tranny again. I disconnected the drive shaft and it spun fine in N. Then I found the rear brake locked up. So this locking up in N issue is no longer,,, I hope.


What do you think?
Is there a chance that I might have a clogged filter causing the noise on startup?

Last edited by YO7_A66; 09/23/12 08:29 PM.

1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: 727 Debug Questions [Re: YO7_A66] #1305148
09/23/12 08:40 PM
09/23/12 08:40 PM
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scratchnfotraction Offline
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it will not pump fluid in park,do the start up in N so it is pumping fluid and fills the TC and lubes everything.

see if you have the noise doing it this way.

I have a habit of starting all of my mopars in N. comes from TC drain back problems. it needs to fill the TC before moving. less time waiting for it this way.

Re: 727 Debug Questions [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1305149
09/23/12 09:03 PM
09/23/12 09:03 PM
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YO7_A66 Offline OP
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Scratch:
I have always started it in P and then moved it into N for a few seconds before I leave.
I will try starting it in N to see what happens.

Thanks


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: 727 Debug Questions [Re: YO7_A66] #1305150
09/29/12 11:04 AM
09/29/12 11:04 AM
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YO7_A66 Offline OP
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I decided to go ahead and pull the pan and found a very clean pan for not checking it for six years. I readjusted the rear band to 2-1/4 turns from 72in/lbs and put in a new pan gasket. This is the plastic piece with o-rings. After filling the pan with 4 quarts of Dextronn III, I started it up in N and no noise. I took it for a short test drive and topped off the fluid. Then this morning I started it up again in N with no noise. I just got back from my second test drive and the tranny is acting fine. Several WOT downshifts, a few manual shifts and allot of stop and goes and it acted fine.
Thanks again to you members. My tranny has no more leaks and it shifts great!


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: 727 Debug Questions [Re: YO7_A66] #1305151
11/07/12 10:24 AM
11/07/12 10:24 AM
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YO7_A66 Offline OP
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UPDATE:
My last post stated that I test drove the tranny and it tested fine even through several WOT runs. Well, a couple of weeks went by and I pulled the car out of the garage and then tried to bring it back in and it was slipping again. Then once I got it into the garage and I shut it down, I tried to roll it forward and it locked up again in N. Then like last time, once I rolled it backwards about a foot and then rolled it forward again, it moved freely in N.
I decided to email Rick Allison at A&A (He is local to me and I already have some of his parts in this tranny) and after giving Rick all of the details that I posted above and then the additional info of what happened over the weekend, Rick too ( like above mentioned) thinks that the sprag may be damaged causing the binding in N. But Rick also thinks that the slipping (I also have a vibration during cold startup in N) may be my eight year old converter too. I have decided to pull the tranny and let Rick go through it and determine all of the issues. It will be a few weeks before I get a chance to pull it but once he has gone thru it, I will post the damage results.
Rick sells the sprag upgrades and he has already quoted me a 9-1/2" converter back in the Spring. Depending on the cost of this, I might consider one of his valve bodies too.

It appears that I have a Winter project!


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: 727 Debug Questions [Re: YO7_A66] #1305152
11/25/12 06:45 PM
11/25/12 06:45 PM
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I have the tranny out and it is ready to go to A&A. But while the converter was out and laying down, I stuck my fingers down into the inside and I tried spinning the inner housing and it sqeeled as I turned it with my fingers. It also had some drag too. I am going to assume that this inner housing should not be sqeeling and that there might be some damage to the converter. If so, then this might be one of the two issues. This might be the cause to my noise at a cold startup and the reason for the slipping in the forward gears.
I hope to drop off the tranny this week and wait for the results. Does the above sound like a converter issue?

Thanks


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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