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Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: RobX4406] #1301646 09/10/12 11:58 PM 09/10/12 11:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,039 ALBERTA CANADA C CUDA8U super stock
CUDA8U super stock C Joined: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,039 ALBERTA CANADA	Quote: Quote: I believe at idle it is at 34* I doubt that if it has springs in it. If it smells like a fuel factory out the tailpipes, it's not close... I wouldn't mess with anything else until you know where the idle/initial timing is set. If you reach in at idle and twist the distributor clockwise and it picks up RPM, it want the timing you just twisted in. really? any time you can turn the dist.and the rpm increases your engine wants more timing?

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: CUDA8U] #1301647 09/11/12 08:43 AM 09/11/12 08:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 12,291 Kent, Wa 340SHORTY Truck Nut
340SHORTY Truck Nut Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 12,291 Kent, Wa	Quote: Quote: Quote: I believe at idle it is at 34* I doubt that if it has springs in it. If it smells like a fuel factory out the tailpipes, it's not close... I wouldn't mess with anything else until you know where the idle/initial timing is set. If you reach in at idle and twist the distributor clockwise and it picks up RPM, it want the timing you just twisted in. really? any time you can turn the dist.and the rpm increases your engine wants more timing? WHAT!!! The RPM will ALWAYS increase when the timing is advanced. Id bet you need to rejet the primary jets down a couple of sizes. Thoss those Chumpion plugs are good for plugging the holes to keep the cylinders sealed. Put some real spark plugs in it.. . I am truckless..

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: moparrulzzz] #1301648 09/11/12 09:08 AM 09/11/12 09:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio Challenger 1 Too Many Posts
Challenger 1 Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio	Quote: Its just smokey, fresh motor smells in no way of burning oil. The guy who built the motor opened the dist up and changed the springs and has it set at 34* total. Vac. advance is unplugged. How do you know this when you haven't even put a timing light on it? Why is the vacuum adv disconnected? And imo rOBBx4406 KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT, more people should listen to him. Last edited by Challenger 1; 09/11/12 09:16 AM.

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: Challenger 1] #1301649 09/11/12 10:54 AM 09/11/12 10:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,947 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,947 U.S.S.A.	Change the plugs to something else , either cross it to an autolite race plug , AR85 , or an NGK. New Champion plugs are garbage .... and a 12 is probably too hot a plug .

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: Challenger 1] #1301650 09/11/12 02:32 PM 09/11/12 02:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	Quote: Quote: Its just smokey, fresh motor smells in no way of burning oil. The guy who built the motor opened the dist up and changed the springs and has it set at 34* total. Vac. advance is unplugged. How do you know this when you haven't even put a timing light on it? Why is the vacuum adv disconnected? And imo rOBBx4406 KNOWS WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT, more people should listen to him. Sometimes I wonder why people bother to offer up anything around here. Some people don't even have an idea of why idle timing is important. It's been explained numerous times around here and the disaster in waiting that is mechanical advance. Hey, if you want your stuff to run based on bad info from a performance book written in the 70-80's, go for it! Two words for likely what's causing the OP's issue... TRANSFER SLOTS. If you don't get why the idle timing and the amount of transfer slot is showing, then you don't understand the relationship of the systems on the car. And, NO, engines don't always pick up RPM when timing is advanced. It's about finding the efficiency point of the engine at idle. You'll run into limits doing this, namely starter issues. I'll bet this particular engine could run pretty good with 22 initial and 34-35 total all in by 2500. Pick your way to skin a cat. Your way, IMO, may suck, but, it's still your way. Grab that MP manual and follow the rotten way to time it up. More, or likely, less power to you!

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: RobX4406] #1301651 09/11/12 05:24 PM 09/11/12 05:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 12,494 Western Colorado High Desert moparmarks I Live Here
moparmarks I Live Here Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 12,494 Western Colorado High Desert	If you don't get why the idle timing and the amount of transfer slot is showing, then you don't understand the relationship of the systems on the car. Well said. 72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/ motormangj@gmail.com

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: moparrulzzz] #1301652 09/11/12 05:33 PM 09/11/12 05:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 12,494 Western Colorado High Desert moparmarks I Live Here
moparmarks I Live Here Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 12,494 Western Colorado High Desert	Quote: Quote: Oil or carbon fouled plugs? If carbon then is ignition problem or carb is dumping to much gas. Any exhaust smoke? If so what color. Really should take a vacuum reading then choose the power valve. Plug wires? New and not touching the exhaust anywhere? Carbon Fouled, get blueish colored smoke when starting cold but doen not smell like oil burning, only lasts a second or two. I figured it was rich from choke being closed. Plug wires are new, everything is new!! Wires are not touching the headers. I fouled a set of plugs out in 14 miles of cruising 35 MPH avg, goosed it a couple times. Blue smoke is oil. Black smoke is fuel. I'd get a vacuum advance on there. Get the timing dailed in and making sure it is on the idle circuit. Check the fuel spray pattern. Check the stark. Blue or yellow? Take a vacuum reading. Then if still going fat I'd go into the carb. What jets are you running? 72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/ motormangj@gmail.com

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: moparmarks] #1301653 09/11/12 05:37 PM 09/11/12 05:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 12,494 Western Colorado High Desert moparmarks I Live Here
moparmarks I Live Here Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 12,494 Western Colorado High Desert	Also like John said, get some Autolite plugs. 72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/ motormangj@gmail.com

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: moparmarks] #1301654 09/11/12 06:09 PM 09/11/12 06:09 PM
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio S superbeedave mopar
superbeedave mopar S Joined: May 2009 Posts: 508 Cincinnati, Ohio	Then again, What is his vacuum at idle? Could be low enough to tell him his power valve is letting in more fuel. If he is running say 10 inches of vacuum or lower at idle and with a 6.5 power valve it may be getting too much fuel in that way! Just my Amongst other things such as timing and advancement not where it should be! Hey, I'm just saying!!

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: superbeedave] #1301655 09/11/12 09:04 PM 09/11/12 09:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,310 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,310 Prospect, PA	Under proper idle circuit operation, the PV (open or closed) will not effect the idle A/F ratio.

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: RobX4406] #1301656 09/11/12 09:37 PM 09/11/12 09:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,679 Mansfield,Ohio moparrulzzz OP top fuel
moparrulzzz OP top fuel Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,679 Mansfield,Ohio	Rob Just came in from garage. Had neighbor behind car when 1st started it and while revving motor, he and I agree smoke is black not blue, that being said kneeling in front of the exhaust smells like fuel not raw fuel and burns eyes and throat. Ok...car at temp I put the light on it at idle 975 RPM and it goes to total advance 34, revving motor with light on it it retards 1-2's I have 12-13 inches vaccum at idle jets are 68 rear 70 front. And just so ya know this is my 1st motor and had alot of people giving me crap advice and spending my money. I was told to put those springs in and I wouldn't need to run vaccuum advace and my car would run so much better. With that being said can you help point me in the right direction with this dist. Do I return it to its original state and use the vac. advance? Thnx Chuck

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: moparrulzzz] #1301657 09/11/12 09:40 PM 09/11/12 09:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central RobX4406 I Live Here
RobX4406 I Live Here Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central	At idle it has 34*? Don't rev it at all, just point the light and read what it says when idling. Float bowl level set properly, no fuel dripping in from the boosters on your carb? Another thing to do, remove the cap and see if the rotor will move clockwise. That's the advance mechanism. If you have a vacuum gauge, use it to set the idle mixture screws, sides of metering blocks. You want the highest vac where those screws are furthest in, evenly set on both sides. You should be able to run them in and kill the engine.

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: RobX4406] #1301658 09/11/12 10:22 PM 09/11/12 10:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,344 Central TX roe master
roe master Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,344 Central TX	I'm still learning how to properly tune and dial in a carb/tuning. This thread is putting out some good info. Does anyone here feel like writing a response that explains the relationship between the carb, jets, transfer slots, initial/total timing, etc... I find that guys here do a better job at explaining this stuff than a magazine, or a random article online 1971 Plymouth Satellite 408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: roe] #1301659 09/11/12 11:12 PM 09/11/12 11:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,682 Philadelphia R radar top fuel
radar top fuel R Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,682 Philadelphia	I'll give it a shot for a dumb down version. The more radical your engine the more initial timing can benefit your idle RPM and crispness. If you go too far advanced you will have trouble with starter kickback and slow hot starts. There are several strategies to deal with this in a street car the simplest is don't set it too high. After you figure out what initial (idle) timing you want to run you can set the total for a reasonable number and possibly fine tune it at the track. Stock distributors are set to a wider spread so they need to have slots shortened inside. Different aftermarket units use different methods. Once your timing is good you can tune the carb. Hopefully it's in the ballpark so you can get the timing! On a holley style carb the circuits 'stack' up. As you open the carb more fuel flows out of different spots. At idle the fuel emulsion (pre mixed with some air) comes from a small hole below the butterfly and also from the bottom of the transfer slot exposed below the blade. You want to keep the t-slot exposed under there small, looking like a square. Then tune for highest vacuum with the idle corner screws. As the throttle opens the transition slot begins to flow, and then the mains. If it is opened fast enough you will shoot the accelerator pump to cover a lean spot as the fuel begins to flow. Drop the vacuum enough and the power valve will flow too. A holley is pretty easy to tune for racing. For street driving the more time you spend driving like a normal person the more the carb is unnecessarily rich. If you drive like them Duke boys you'll be fine. Thats why some people want you to follow them to a race- they know boppin around will foul out your plugs and your rig will run like poop...

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: radar] #1301660 09/11/12 11:28 PM 09/11/12 11:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,682 Philadelphia R radar top fuel
radar top fuel R Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,682 Philadelphia	Watch out the multiple spark setups run awesome but not all timing lights will show a true timing below 3000rpm or so when the multiple sparks are happening. So what I think might be happening is his idle feed restriction is too big. If that's the case then the idle screws will be less than 1 turn out for maximum vacuum at idle. Remember the idle screws control how much mixture is allowed to come out of the idle discharge, the air fuel mix is controlled by the IFR idle feed restriction size vs the idle air bleed size. I stuck some guitar B string wire in my IFRs and was able to run the idle screws out from 3/4 turns out to more like 1.5 turns out. The added benefit is that the same fuel mix that comes out of the idle port and is controlled by the idle screws comes out of the t-slot which can be the primary source of mixture at very small throttle openings (like maintaining 30 mph with a 400 hp motor)

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: moparrulzzz] #1301661 09/12/12 12:56 AM 09/12/12 12:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,097 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,097 Bend,OR USA	Are your foul out plugs black and shiny or are they dull black? Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: Cab_Burge] #1301662 09/12/12 01:09 AM 09/12/12 01:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 12,494 Western Colorado High Desert moparmarks I Live Here
moparmarks I Live Here Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 12,494 Western Colorado High Desert	"You should be able to run them in and kill the engine". If turning the idle screws all the way in does not kill the motor then the carb is not down on the idle circuit. Try this and see. I see way too many times someone trying to set the timing when the carb is not set right. 72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/ motormangj@gmail.com

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: moparrulzzz] #1301663 09/12/12 01:20 AM 09/12/12 01:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 12,494 Western Colorado High Desert moparmarks I Live Here
moparmarks I Live Here Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 12,494 Western Colorado High Desert	Quote: Rob Just came in from garage. Had neighbor behind car when 1st started it and while revving motor, he and I agree smoke is black not blue, that being said kneeling in front of the exhaust smells like fuel not raw fuel and burns eyes and throat. Ok...car at temp I put the light on it at idle 975 RPM and it goes to total advance 34, revving motor with light on it it retards 1-2's I have 12-13 inches vaccum at idle jets are 68 rear 70 front. And just so ya know this is my 1st motor and had alot of people giving me crap advice and spending my money. I was told to put those springs in and I wouldn't need to run vaccuum advace and my car would run so much better. With that being said can you help point me in the right direction with this dist. Do I return it to its original state and use the vac. advance? Thnx Chuck Don't let people hammer you. EVERONE had to start at the begining. Myself I like a vacuum advance on a mild street motor. Black smoke and as fast as your fowling plugs leads me to think you have a carb problem but you need to make sure the ignition is correct first. Process of elimination. Take the steps of elimination that Rob and I are stating. The jets are probabaly close for where you live. What is the timing at idle? 72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/ motormangj@gmail.com

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: moparmarks] #1301664 09/12/12 07:00 AM 09/12/12 07:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,679 Mansfield,Ohio moparrulzzz OP top fuel
moparrulzzz OP top fuel Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,679 Mansfield,Ohio	Quote: Quote: Rob Just came in from garage. Had neighbor behind car when 1st started it and while revving motor, he and I agree smoke is black not blue, that being said kneeling in front of the exhaust smells like fuel not raw fuel and burns eyes and throat. Ok...car at temp I put the light on it at idle 975 RPM and it goes to total advance 34, revving motor with light on it it retards 1-2's I have 12-13 inches vaccum at idle jets are 68 rear 70 front. And just so ya know this is my 1st motor and had alot of people giving me crap advice and spending my money. I was told to put those springs in and I wouldn't need to run vaccuum advace and my car would run so much better. With that being said can you help point me in the right direction with this dist. Do I return it to its original state and use the vac. advance? Thnx Chuck Don't let people hammer you. EVERONE had to start at the begining. Myself I like a vacuum advance on a mild street motor. Black smoke and as fast as your fowling plugs leads me to think you have a carb problem but you need to make sure the ignition is correct first. Process of elimination. Take the steps of elimination that Rob and I are stating. The jets are probabaly close for where you live. What is the timing at idle? Mark it advaces to 34 total when started.

Re: Keep Fouling plugs....need help [Re: moparrulzzz] #1301665 09/12/12 08:21 AM 09/12/12 08:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 12,494 Western Colorado High Desert moparmarks I Live Here
moparmarks I Live Here Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 12,494 Western Colorado High Desert	Thats way too much timing. Like Rob stated earlier, initial timing should be around 20* and around 32* total advanced. Sounds like its at 34* with no advance. I'd get a better dist in there first. 72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/ motormangj@gmail.com

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