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Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
#1300537
09/09/12 06:38 PM
09/09/12 06:38 PM
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David_Trimble
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Are the accelerator pump nozzles changable on 1405 Edelbrock carbs? I noticed that if I blip the throttle hard enough ( this is on a 1969 Charger 383 4bbl stock squarebore iron intake, 4-speed trans in neutral) I get a stumble. No backfire, just a momentary stumble as the engine revs up. I thought the accelerator pump was running rich so I set the pump lever to it's leanest setting (what I think is the leanest setting- the bottommost hole in the pump lever), and while it seems to have helped, the stumble is still present. I'm trying to figure out how to lean the pump out further- is it possible to change the jet size on the accelerator pump nozzle to something smaller, or does something else need to be rejetted/adjusted?
Again-thanks....
David
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300538
09/09/12 06:55 PM
09/09/12 06:55 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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eyeball the squirt & see if it appears to be of adequate duration with IMMEDIATE tip in. This is with it warmed up so it's not a choke issue correct? float level correct & initial in the ballpark? Any lean stumble issues anywhere else? Reportedly 1405's are jetted on the rich side. Yes the nozzles are interchangeable. EDIT I believe you are too lean rather than too rich & this is a pretty much stone stock 383 right? I'd put the lever closer to the fulcrum and I'm thinking float level/timing/vac leak unless the accel pump itself has a problem
Last edited by RapidRobert; 09/09/12 07:07 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300540
09/09/12 07:27 PM
09/09/12 07:27 PM
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David_Trimble
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I'm going to amend the symptoms here - actually I did get it to backfire once or twice. It didn't do it all the time though. There was still some stumbling though- as if the engine was running rough at a constant RPM. But it wasn't like it had a flat-spot then suddenly picked up RPM though. It immediately increased it's speed but it was sounding rough when it was doing it. I'm going to change the accel pump level setting back to it's midpoint, but it'll still leave me with the rough acceleration.
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300541
09/10/12 07:46 AM
09/10/12 07:46 AM
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Florida
scratchnfotraction
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Quote:
Are the accelerator pump nozzles changable on 1405 Edelbrock carbs?
yes,so is the step up springs,needles/jets.
most 1405s I have run had the accel pump rod in the middle of the 3 holes.
they are also know to be a little lean depending on what # carb you have. older 750 has a casting flaw from factory and are poop.
1405s 600cfm are pretty good for street duty IMHO.
PM sent to you. 
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1300545
09/10/12 11:00 PM
09/10/12 11:00 PM
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David_Trimble
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Yea I'm beginning to suspect the ignition, too. The behavior of the engine as it accellerates doesn't seem to be fuel related (the backfire and the fact that it's more of a stutter than a flat spot) I suspect that my spark plug wires might be bad (the spark plugs themselves are good, supposedly - I replaced them just last weekend) so I'm going to check them for arcing and continuity later this week. The cap is old, too- I'll check the inside for signs of arcing. Will post my findings of course....
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1300547
09/11/12 04:08 PM
09/11/12 04:08 PM
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Missouri
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Make sure you're running enough intial timing too. It can cause a stumble/hesitation that many take for a carb problem. You shouldn't be having problems with a 3 yr old carb....
1970 FE5 Duster 360/904/3.91's SOLD
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Moparless for now but when the opportunity is right I'll have another one.
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300549
09/11/12 08:05 PM
09/11/12 08:05 PM
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David_Trimble
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I pulled the distributor cap and.... well, I'm not sure what to make of this (note the bevels worn out at the bases of each wire terminal where the rotor's been striking them):  I also found some fine, powered metal flakes dusted all over the inside of the cap (which by the way doesn't look like there's been any arcing):  For grins I tried to line up the rotor (using the worn out spot where the rotor pivots against the coil wire contact as a guide) to see how close it was getting to the plug wire terminals, and... well it looks like a pretty big gap- about a 1/8" from the tip of the rotor going across to the face on the notch of the terminal:  Any ideas? I've seen caps where the arc would jump straight across to the opposide side of the notch and I've never seen this kind of wear before on the terminals. And I'm not sure if there's supposed to be that large a gap between the rotor and the wire terminals. But I might be wrong on this of course.
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300550
09/11/12 08:35 PM
09/11/12 08:35 PM
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RapidRobert
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Might get a good ribbed cap also with brass terminals. NAPA offers an Echlin MO 3000 rotor with a .060" longer blade, $8.xx. Could be a stackup of tolerances and I'd remove the dist & drive out the lower roll pin and remove the plastic collar and add 1/2" ID flat washers & get your end play to .005" then add the collar & drive in the roll pin. www.speedwaymotors.com has a cheap kit or your hardware store. Might drill a rectangle or 2 in the side of your cap & mockup & check your actual clearances and I would drill a 3/8" hole in the top flat of the cap 2/3 of the way between the center terminal and #1 terminal & check rotor phasing with your timing light at idle and above idle (ported I'm assuming) vac adv will shift it CW on a BB and CCW on a SB from the no vacuum position
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300552
09/11/12 09:22 PM
09/11/12 09:22 PM
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RapidRobert
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Yes get the best grade washers you can
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1300553
09/15/12 05:33 PM
09/15/12 05:33 PM
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David_Trimble
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Well I got some washers, pulled the distributor and when I started to check on the play I noticed something odd.....
Holding onto the bottom of the drive shaft and checking the end play I found that it had hardly any end play at all. But when I grasped the rotor end of the shaft and wiggled it, it definately had play. But when I did this and watched the drive end of the shaft, the drive end didn't budge at all....
So I have wear somewhere inside the distributor itself. Can this be repaired or am I looking at getting a rebuilt distributor (or sending this out to be rebuilt-it's the original distributor)? I did get a dial gauge on it and measured the play - it came to about .055". Obviously enough to send the rotor into the top of the cap :/
Any Ideas?
David
P.S. It's a Chrysler distributor- and while the FSM shows a exploded diagram of the insides, the FSM doesn't say anything about disassembling/repairing the shaft/centrifugal advance assembly...
Last edited by David_Trimble; 09/15/12 05:46 PM.
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300557
09/15/12 08:48 PM
09/15/12 08:48 PM
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RapidRobert
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Yes post a pic of what they did. Is anything rubbing that should not be? If needed have you got another dizzy you can pirate a slot assy from? On top if you can find a good steel washer of the right dimentions then yes use it.
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300559
09/15/12 09:55 PM
09/15/12 09:55 PM
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RapidRobert
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Oh OK I see what they did, just deburring from welding the slots to shorten them. If the round shoulder on the bottom center which contacts the plastic spacer is not ground away (looks untouched in the pic) then add a washer on top to reduce the top end play. If the shoulder was ground off I would additionally add a washer on top of the plastic spacer so the slot piece is just off of the weights to maintain the original dimention. If yours is ground I can get the amount of thickness tomorrow
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300563
09/15/12 10:16 PM
09/15/12 10:16 PM
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RapidRobert
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Sounds good but go looser than .005" as you need room to manipulate the clip in and out. Just dont need .055" that you have now
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1300565
09/17/12 07:30 PM
09/17/12 07:30 PM
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David_Trimble
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Well, after doing some searching and measuring this is what I've found out: I need a washer that's 7/16" OD and 5/16" ID (and at this point, you're probably beginning to see the problem). But the closest SAE standard washer I found was a #8 washer that would work on the OD but I'd have to drill out the ID to work. This is beyond what I could do with a drill press (I'm not able to come up with a way to safely hold down the washer while I drill) so I'm beginning to think I need to sleeve it instead. Failing that, that remaned distributor at O'Reilly's is starting to look pretty good... 
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300566
09/17/12 09:04 PM
09/17/12 09:04 PM
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RapidRobert
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hold the washer on the edge in a pair of vice grips then go slowly with your drill press. I've been wondering if your dist is the original 40+ year old unit & what shape the bushings (side play on the top slot assy) are in. I was thinking that maybe when they shortened the slots they exchanged the dist for a rebuilt one but maybe they didn't. See how much side play you have. Actually your lower end play is good from your descrip and they did no damage by deburring the welding and that was not what caused the excessive upper axial play, probably just a stackup of tolerances & now all is good only the upper play needs to be reduced to keep the rotor off of the cap terminals if the side play is good. But is the slot length they reduced it to correct for your app. But we need to solve the original complaint & worry about slot length later. As Scratchn said the rebuilt dists are a good deal for the money & you can even switch the cam/slots assy between the two as when they rebuild they only replace the 2 bushings and size them by reaming to fit the shaft as the rebuild dist will likely have the way too much mechanical (slot length) like yours originally had (36 at the crank  ) before it was welded. I'd suggest get a washer under the nub, get a new cap/rotor and continue on to solve the original complaint unless your bushing side play is excessive right now. Save the old cap to drill it to check rotor phasing
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300570
09/19/12 07:09 PM
09/19/12 07:09 PM
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David_Trimble
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Well I don't know how I did it but I managed to make a washer that would fit  And it fits perfectly (I can't get over how lucky I was) - after I managed to get the clip back into place (I spun the clip around a turn or 2 to make sure it was in and seated) I measured the end play and got around .005". No more slop - and there's no interference from the centrifugal advance that I can tell- it operates pretty smoothly by hand. I'll oil the mechanism (it was pretty dry when I took it apart) and should have the distributor together and back in the engine before the weekend.
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: scratchnfotraction]
#1300572
09/20/12 08:03 PM
09/20/12 08:03 PM
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David_Trimble
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Well I started reassembling the distributor today and when I got to the point where I could install the retaining collar on the lower shaft I noticed that the holes had elongated. Not by much but enough where if I'm going to do this right I might as well replace it. There's no friction fit between the pin and the collar- because of that it's hard to tell if I have correct end-play. The only place I know of to get a new collar is a dealer, and I know it'll have to be ordered- so it looks like the distributor's not going in this weekend  Edit- After looking at it again I see that the pin is a friction fit in one of the holes in the collar- but the other hole is fairly loose. If I have to I probably could live with this, but to be sure I'll replace it if I can....
Last edited by David_Trimble; 09/20/12 08:20 PM.
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1300574
09/20/12 09:32 PM
09/20/12 09:32 PM
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David_Trimble
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Cool- I'll check out Lowes this weekend of the dealer fall through then. Thanks!
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300575
09/20/12 09:39 PM
09/20/12 09:39 PM
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RapidRobert
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Yes, just get a 1/2" ID one that looks similar to the OE one and if it is a bit longer no problem as there's alot of room on the shaft & nothing even remotely close that would interfere/hit. Do get several unless you're a better driller than I am and there's room around the circumference to make several pairs of holes on each one if need be to get it perfect
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1300576
09/22/12 06:42 PM
09/22/12 06:42 PM
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David_Trimble
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Ok, first of all I did manage to find a couple of nylon bushings at Lowes that will work if need be. I called the dealer Friday about the collar kit but I'm told that the part number isn't coming up as being valid on the parts system, so it's no longer available (big surprise)
However, I took another look at the original collar and I think it's actually ok- I'm going to go with it and if it turns out that it's got to be replaced, well I now have some collars that could do the job.
My current question though: when reassembling the collar on the shaft I took a measurement of the end-play of the lower shaft and got a pretty low number- .002-.003. Plus I could feel a slight binding going on when I turned the lower shaft, so I took it all apart and looked again. I noticed that the upper bearing in the distributor body seems to sit up higher out of the 'floor' of the distributor body than I thought it should- about 1/8-1/4" above. This may or may not be correct, I don't know- I would've thought the top edge of the bearing would be more or less flush with the floor.
But to be sure, I thought I'd ask first to see if that's ok because if it isn't, it might explain the binding and small end-play. But if it is, then I'm wondering if I can eliminate one of the two washers that's under the centrifugal assembly, to try to get a little more end-play and less binding.
But if those two washers needs to be there though, is there anything else I can do to increase the end-play?
David
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300577
09/22/12 07:34 PM
09/22/12 07:34 PM
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RapidRobert
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The dual point units came with 2 thrust washers and the single points only 1 so might have been a simple assembly line mistake. Take off one of the washers and reassemble it & (re)check for end play and binding
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300579
09/22/12 08:43 PM
09/22/12 08:43 PM
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RapidRobert
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mock it up/check the alignment/play & I'll get back with you tomorrow
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1300580
09/23/12 04:53 PM
09/23/12 04:53 PM
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David_Trimble
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Ok- without the extra thrust washer, I can get the end play to .010 (I managed to snag the Moroso distributor washer kit so I got a few different washer thicknesses to play with) with a single washer. Is that close enough? If not, I can try using combinations of washers to see if I can get it closer...
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300583
09/23/12 10:29 PM
09/23/12 10:29 PM
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RapidRobert
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Holler if getting the dizzy squared away takes care of the stumbling. If it does not we'll keep on it
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1300584
09/24/12 09:41 PM
09/24/12 09:41 PM
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David_Trimble
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Question on reinstalling the Pertronix sensor - I've got the installation sheet and it makes no mention of setting a gap between the sensor and the magnet sleeve. Is the gap critical or would just making sure there's clearance between the magnet sleeve and sensor good enough?
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300591
09/27/12 08:33 PM
09/27/12 08:33 PM
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David_Trimble
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Some progress- the distributor is back together again. The gap still needs adjustment and I'm still looking for my plastic gauge (I suspect it's out in the shed and I won't be able to get to that until the weekend) so the distributor hasn't been reinstalled yet. I did slice out a 'window' on the ruined cap between two plug wire terminals to check the gap with the corrected end-play and the new rotor with the .060" longer blade and it fits great- a much smaller gap than with the original rotor, and the rotor tip misses the bases of the plug wire terminal posts by at least a 1/8". So it looks like the original problem is taken care of...  Hopefully when I find that gauge I'll be posting again this weekend to report on any changes in the engine....
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300597
09/28/12 09:46 PM
09/28/12 09:46 PM
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RapidRobert
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the vertical spacing is good as the tip is well into the range of the vertical wall & the lateral clearance seems alot in the pic but you said it was 1/16-1/32" which is acceptable & I'm sure the Echlin MO3000 .060" longer rotor helped with that. You can actually reduce it to .010-.015" lateral clearance by soldering material to extend it or bolting on part of a tip from a junk rotor but that requires dead on tight bushings tho any excessive gap that the spark has to jump outside the cylinder raises the required voltage & is a waste but we're plenty good for now & lets hope it was the cause of the stumbling. Do save that cap in the pic & drill a 1/2" hole in the top flat 2/3 of the way between the center post & the #1 cap terminal so we can check rotor phasing with a timing light when we get it running which'll be the 3rd clearance we want blueprinted (1) lateral clearance (2) rotor height (3) rotor phasing. Actually a 4th one is the height (sideways) of each reluctor tooth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1300600
09/29/12 04:45 PM
09/29/12 04:45 PM
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Ah- good idea. I have a micrometer..... got tons of plain sheet plastic, so I'll just have a look around. It's raining today so I can't get to the shed so I'll do that instead  Edit: Looks like the gap is supposed to be .030", according to Google...
Last edited by David_Trimble; 09/29/12 04:59 PM.
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300601
09/30/12 05:09 PM
09/30/12 05:09 PM
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David_Trimble
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Well I went thru my plastic for a makeshift feeler gauge- found one that measured .032" on the first try so I went with that. So the Pertronix sensor got gapped and got the distributor back into the car. Started it up and let it idle for ~10 minutes to let it warm up and to report:
1) After warm-up, I had a very smooth idle and the off-idle acceleration stumble is almost completely gone. I seem to feel a slight (very slight) hesitation but I don't know if it's my imagination or if I just need to re-fine-tune the engine again (I did not reset the initial timing on the distributor - I just lined it up with a set of marks I made before I pulled it- but I imagine I will have to since I've effectively changed the dwell). The idle is much more stable, too- it was idling at around 500-550rpm once it warmed up (and it's NEVER idled smoothly at that speed before) and I had checked the RPM- I reset it to 750rpm and reset the carb idle screws to 1-1/2 turns out as I'll have to fine tune them, too.
2) In another thread I had mentioned a 'sticky' accellerator pedal, which I did not experience while doing the above. I'm not 100% sure it's gone away and if I inadvertanly fixed that issue I certainly don't understand how what I did would've affected that issue.
Anyway, in a day or 2 I'll get around to doing the fine-tuning (as well as doing the rotor phasing test) and I'll report in again.
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300602
09/30/12 07:43 PM
09/30/12 07:43 PM
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RapidRobert
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(1) major progress (2) good Karma
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1300603
10/02/12 07:29 PM
10/02/12 07:29 PM
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Ok this is easy- I tried the rotor phasing test, drilled the hole then swapped out the good cap for the 'test' cap, connected the timing light to #1 wire and hit the rotor with the light while revving the engine. THe rotor didn't budge  Stayed rock steady during the whole process. I'm guessing this means there's something wrong with my vacuum advance? It's connected to the left vacuum port on my Edelbrock (1405), and I think that's the ported vacuum.
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300604
10/02/12 08:23 PM
10/02/12 08:23 PM
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Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Only vac adv changes rotor phasing so if it's not functioning then yes the rotor will not move when "frozen" with the light. iirc the passenger side port is ported. How close to straight on was the rotor to the cap terminal? EDIT pull & cap the vac adv hose & see where the rotor points to in the at rest/no vacuum position. Adding the vac adv can will shift the rotor clockwise (on a BB) from that original at rest/no vacuum position however under power (WOT) the rotor will be at the original no vac/at rest position and this is when the required voltage is the greatest so the rotor especially needs to be within range at that point
Last edited by RapidRobert; 10/02/12 09:14 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300606
10/03/12 06:59 PM
10/03/12 06:59 PM
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David_Trimble
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It keeps getting more interesting....
OK- with the vacuum line connected, I noticed that I was wrong before- the rotor seems to be pointing past (towards CW) the terminal. How far it's moved it's hard to describe- I can say that it's moved far enough where the centerline of the rotor is past where I would guesstimate the brass terminal post to be inside the distributor.
Disconnecting and plugging the vacuum line moves the rotor so it's definitely pointing straight at the terminal. That is, the centerline of the rotor intersects the center of the terminal post (or pretty close to it).
So it looks like at idle I'm actually running some advance, which explains a few things :/
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300607
10/03/12 11:55 PM
10/03/12 11:55 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Are you on ported or manifold? If your on ported I'm wondering what's up with that, is your idle speed way too high? If so maybe the timing was skewed. I'm thinking the rotor ain't so far to the right of the terminal under normal high vacuum conditions to effect a miss as wasn't it a stumble when you mashed it which at that point the rotor would be shifted closer to dead center but I cant say for sure how far it is off. You can redrill the slot like Andy did with his machined reluctors way back and there's room for 4 or 5 more slots till you get it dead on. Need a mini drill bit of the right dia and a mini rattail file to break open the hole you drill to the open ID. Harbor Freight has the file kit for next to nothing but get the best drill bit you can
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300609
10/04/12 10:37 AM
10/04/12 10:37 AM
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RapidRobert
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Yes going CCW with a 3/32" allen wrench slows the onset of the start of the advance curve but the problem is not there, it's the ported nipple, it should have very little or no vacuum at idle, definitely not near enough vac to activate the can no matter where the cans' curve is set at. Can you put a vac gauge on it & see what you do have there. EDIT if it's activating the can it's too much vac (no matter how much it is) at idle on the ported nipple
Last edited by RapidRobert; 10/04/12 11:41 AM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1300610
10/04/12 12:30 PM
10/04/12 12:30 PM
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David_Trimble
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I've got a vacuum gauge, so yes I can get a reading off the ported vacuum no problem. I'll do that tonite along with the other checks.
So ultimately, it's sounds like I have a defective vacuum can?
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1300612
10/04/12 06:49 PM
10/04/12 06:49 PM
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David_Trimble
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Ok this is easy- and again, confusing....
Readings from the ported vacuum outlet on the carb- these were taken with a cold engine but I don't think this matters as I don't think we were looking for exact readings. But long story short, I was reading about 14-15" Hg with the engine running around 700rpm. Lightly blipping the throttle, the vacuum reading dropped momentarily to around 5"Hg before returning to previous reading.
Unless I'm not understanding something correctly (and that's entirely possible) I would've expected the reverse behavior if everything was running correctly?
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300613
10/04/12 06:59 PM
10/04/12 06:59 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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that's normal for the manifold vac port on the drivers side but the ported one should have no/ little vac at idle. Eng off, Can you unscrew the idle speed throttle screw till the throttle stops moving (throttle closed) and count the # of turns to get to that point plus it'll easily let you return it to the exact position & see how many turns in it is
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300617
10/05/12 12:59 AM
10/05/12 12:59 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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I have an Eddy 1406 on a DD bone stock 318 which'll have the same vac routing as your 1405. I'll check the vac in both ports tomorrow
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1300618
10/05/12 06:21 PM
10/05/12 06:21 PM
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David_Trimble
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Well I hope you have better luck than me. 1) I connected the vacuum gauge up to the right side port (driver's side) of the carb and started the engine. At ~700 I was getting 15"Hg- pretty much what the left side was doing. That blows the idea of trying to use the other port....  2) I resealed the right port and connected the gauge up the left port, then with the engine running I started backing off the idle speed. The engine died around 300rpm and during the time I was turning down the idle speed screw the gauge still read around 15"Hg up until around 350rpm where it dropped off to 5"Hg. Is anyone else out there getting similar readings from their Edelbrock 1405/1406 that aren't encountering any engine issues? Robert- I'll wait to hear from what you find out and if your carb is giving a good reading then I'll probably have to call Edelbrock Tech Support and find out what they think....
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300619
10/05/12 09:38 PM
10/05/12 09:38 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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I checked it & I have no vac on the pass port and full (~18 in hg) on the drivers side. This is at idle at ~600 or so rpm
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300621
10/06/12 09:55 AM
10/06/12 09:55 AM
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Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
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Quote:
Quote:
I checked it & I have no vac on the pass port and full (~18 in hg) on the drivers side. This is at idle at ~600 or so rpm
Ok it sounds like I have a defective carb then. I'll give Edelbrock's Tech support a call to see if they know what could cause this and if it can be repaired (either by me or a carb shop), otherwise it looks like I'm in the market for a new carb... 
David,take the carb off and with the idle screw seated on the tang on the throttle shaft (the way it is now) and off the fast idle cam see if the throttle plates are above the transfer slot.If they are I would go back to your timing,I really don't think you have enough,a little more initial may surprise you.
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: 62maxwgn]
#1300622
10/06/12 11:22 AM
10/06/12 11:22 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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What Max said, See (& post) how much of the long transfer slot is showing, want pretty much just enough so you see a "square" not a rectangle
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300624
10/06/12 04:34 PM
10/06/12 04:34 PM
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David_Trimble
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Ok 2 things I discovered:
1) With the fast idle cam off, and the throttle closed down to it's original position (that is, I didn't touch the idle set speed screw since pulling the carb) I looked at the transfer slot. The transfer slot that was exposed under the throttle blade was *not* square but rectangular (much to my surprise) So it looks like I need to just work on the timing then.
2) One of the secondaries was slightly gummed up with what looked like tar. Turning the primaries to WOT did not open the secondaries until I got them unstuck. If the secondaries were sticking I'm wondering if that might've contributed to my other complaint I had posted about the engine sometimes not returning to idle after running up the RPM.
So before I put the carb back on it looks like I'll need to do some cleaning....
I'll post pics later today- don't have access to my camera right now otherwise I'd include them here (and I'll take them before I start cleaning, although I already did wipe down the primary throttle a little)....
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300626
10/06/12 11:35 PM
10/06/12 11:35 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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sure seems like alot of slot for only 2 turns of the idle speed screw. Yeah I'd clean the carb thoroughly & continue on
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300628
10/07/12 11:16 AM
10/07/12 11:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
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Quote:
Quote:
sure seems like alot of slot for only 2 turns of the idle speed screw. Yeah I'd clean the carb thoroughly & continue on
It does to me too (hence my surprise at discovering this). When I start cleaning up the carb tomorrow, what I'll do is turn the idle set screw completely out so the throttle is slammed shut, and check to see how much transfer slot is still exposed (if any). Then I'll turn the screw back in until I see it just contact the stop and count the turns needed to position the throttle so a 'square' of the transfer slot is exposed. That should turn out to be < 2 turns. If not, then I must've screwed up checking the turn count to begin with .
David,out of curiousity,how are you adjusting your idle speed and your mixture screws ?
Here is an AVS that idled at 800 rpm and worked perfect.You have way too much transfer slot exposed.Like I said before,bump up the timing,adjust your idle speed then your mixture screws.You will have to adjust both mixture and idle screws more than once until you get it right,one affects the other.There is no set in stone amount of turns on either adjustment,just a starting point,adjustment is whatever your particular engine requires.
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: 62maxwgn]
#1300629
10/07/12 04:37 PM
10/07/12 04:37 PM
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David_Trimble
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Well I got the carb apart and I found a few things wrong.... 1) One of the nozzles on the accelerator squirter is completely plugged That might explain the slight hesitation that I was hearing when I blipped the throttle, even after fixing the distributor... 2) Found some more tar on/in the boost venturi on the driver's side. It was building up in the crevaces between the venturi and where it mounts to the carb body. I thought I'd just be able to clean this up (surprisingly, both bowls are pretty clean- no sediment) but to do the job I'd like to do I'll probably wind up destroying some of the gaskets, so I'm going to order a gasket set for it and replace everything. Might as well since I'm going to have to tear this down completely to make sure I get all that tar out of there Quote:
David,out of curiousity,how are you adjusting your idle speed and your mixture screws ?
Here is an AVS that idled at 800 rpm and worked perfect.You have way too much transfer slot exposed.Like I said before,bump up the timing,adjust your idle speed then your mixture screws.You will have to adjust both mixture and idle screws more than once until you get it right,one affects the other.There is no set in stone amount of turns on either adjustment,just a starting point,adjustment is whatever your particular engine requires.
Thanks for the pic Max - I did my little experiement with resetting the idle screw so it was just touching the stop with the throttle completely closed and when I looked at the transfer slot I saw pretty much what your picture shows - maybe slightly less than a 'square's worth.
How I had adjusted the idle speed- well I was going with the factory setting of 750rpm (I have manual trans), and using the tach I would start each mixture screw at 1-1/2 turns out from the seat. Then I'd turn out one until I maxed my RPMs, then gave it a 1/4 turn more, reset the idle speed then repeat procedure on the other mixture screw, then repeated again on the first screw. This was all with the vacuum advance disconnected and plugged.
But when I get everything back together I'll increase the timing and re-tune everything to see where it gets me.
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300630
10/08/12 04:16 PM
10/08/12 04:16 PM
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David_Trimble
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Hmm.... well I got the carb cleaned out, but I had one question.... On the primary and secondary boost venturis, on the 'backs' there's a plug where the passageway was milled and sealed (see pic). Is there supposed to be some epoxy to help seal it, or is it ok as-is? If it's supposed to be sealed, what would be good for that? 
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300631
10/08/12 09:20 PM
10/08/12 09:20 PM
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Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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clean it with a half second blast of starting fluid then seal it with some 2 part JB weld. put a piece of scotch tape over it & turn it upside down so the JB will settle flat against that flat side & not go inside & possibly restrict a passage/cause a problem. Let it set up for several days, maybe less.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1300632
10/09/12 11:05 PM
10/09/12 11:05 PM
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David_Trimble
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Ok, I've got the JB Weld setting right now. The directions say it'll take 24 hrs to fully set, but since the scotch tape is over it, I'm going to wait 24 hrs, remove the tape (the JB Weld should be set by then) then give it at least another 24 hours before I reassemble the carb (unless Robert you think it really needs to go a week?).
Meanwhile I've got another question - the tar that I found in the carb: what could cause gas to do this? The only thing I can think of is that I've used starter fluid to get the engine to fire if it's sat for a while. I'm wondering if it's reacting to the gas and causing the gas to thicken up. I've never heard of gas doing this before but then again I'm thinking of 'real' gas and not what they've got out nowadays. Anyone have any ideas on this?
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300633
10/10/12 12:25 AM
10/10/12 12:25 AM
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Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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letting it set the time you mentioned should be fine. I think as you said just poor gas (especially E10) is known for that, not from using starting fluid tho starting fluid is reportedly hard on an eng (I use it tho when I have to)
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300635
10/10/12 09:48 PM
10/10/12 09:48 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
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I would get a gallon or two of the carb soak cleaner and give that a good soaking. then blow it with 150 psi of air with rubber airtip/gun. a little rubbing with a soft wheel brush in a dremal should take care of the bad spot in the venturie. that e-10 is corosive and thats what it does to alum after a while. I have a carb in way worse shape that that from sitting about 10 yrs now. its white flaky scale and frooze up solid.  with a good soaking you can get all of the tar out with air and water rinse with out removeing the mill plugs on the end of the passages. as long as they have not been removed they should not leak. but the JB weld is ok for this also. I do the jet wells on all of the q-jets i rebuild. not so much on edelbrokes. a tip I have found going behind goobers rebuilding carbs is keep the front 2 jets together and the rear 2 jets together as pairs. I have fixed more 20$ swap meet edelbroke/carter carbs with nothing more than the jets all mixed up in the wrong holes. they call it junk and could not tune it. I set them back up to stock specs and it works fine.  I have those springs and squirters you can have when you get back to a base line to start fine tuning it. a clean carb is a happy carb. 
Last edited by scratchnfotraction; 10/10/12 09:50 PM.
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300637
10/12/12 08:27 PM
10/12/12 08:27 PM
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David_Trimble
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Well, I dremeled down the eroded area with a wire wheel brush and it looks better (i guess short of replacing the carb it's going to be the best it'll ever get  ). So I started reassembling the carb, but in checking over the JB on the venturis I noticed that it's still slightly tacky. I would've thought it'd cure by now- or is that normal for JB? If worse comes to worse I could soak a venturi overnight in gasoline and see what happens....
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300638
10/12/12 09:00 PM
10/12/12 09:00 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
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yea dont sweat it,I have run much worse looking carbs than that one. the JB weld can take more time to cure depending on mixture and weather. JBquik is the fast set one that needs to be worked asap before it set up in 5-8 mins. I prefer this kind but both will work once cured. I have put q-jets back together with it still a little soft but never had any trouble later.
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1300642
10/13/12 08:45 PM
10/13/12 08:45 PM
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David_Trimble
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I let the venturis go in the toaster oven for about 3 hours. During that time the 'tackyness' gradually went away. Took them out and gave them time to cool- now the JB is just as hard as the metal.
Everything had been cleaned up so all there was left to do was reassemble the carb. Once I did that though I followed the instructions on how to adjust everything back to specs and there's something that doesn't seem right. On the step where you calibrate when the secondaries open up (and this was waaaaayyy off on my carb), when all was said and done I found that my secondaries will open when the primaries are about 3/4 open. If I recall correctly I think this is right for most 4bbl carbs - but when I manually open the primaries all the way I notice the secondaries only open about 3/4 of the way - maybe a little more. Is this correct? It seems to me that the secondaries should be almost as open as the primaries?
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300644
10/14/12 03:31 PM
10/14/12 03:31 PM
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David_Trimble
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Well I figured my above question can wait, so I went ahead and reinstalled the carb, started the car, warmed it up and adjusted the initial timing to 20deg. But at 750rpm I was still pulling almost 15"Hg from the ported vacuum. If I dropped the RPMs to 500 then the reading on the ported vacuum would drop to almost 0, but as soon as I started increasing the RPMs, so did the vacuum... I could increase my initial advance past 20, but I'm not sure if it'll do me any good at this point. ON the good side, the stumbling/stuttering on acceleration is now completely gone.
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300645
10/14/12 04:09 PM
10/14/12 04:09 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Success! I'd think you'd want the secondary blades vertical at WOT for max flow. At 15 deg initial sure doesn't sound like retarded timing is opening the blades to far past a "square". With adequate initial (like we have here) I've never seen that problem. I'm wondering if it's blade/slot wrong phasing if the transition slot was machined wrong but that seems like a stretch & I'm a firm believer in K.I.S.S. but also the secondary link is bent wrong for it not to be wide open so... Wish I had my eddy that I just let go so I could check it out. If you need a 750 rpm idle & will have vacuum you may likely have to tune it starting with using manifold instead of ported vacuum to set your initial then cap it to set the total (slots) then mix/match springs staying just under pinging at WOT
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300647
10/14/12 06:56 PM
10/14/12 06:56 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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You would take off the heavy link that connects the primary and secondary shafts on the passenger side. Yes you'd set initial on the manifold vacuum (drivers) side with the can operational then shorten the slots to get 35 (SB) with the vac can temporarily capped off then mix/match springs staying just under the pinging point @ WOT then plug the can back in & check for pinging in everyday varied driving conditions & if needed turning the allen wrench CCW will give less advance at a given in hg along the cans' slope
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300650
10/14/12 10:25 PM
10/14/12 10:25 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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that's why I didn't post immediately on your Q about the secondaries not being vertical as I am not 100% sure & was hoping someone with more knowledge would chime in but I would THINK that they should be wide open at WOT so there's no restriction then the weighted valve regulates the air. Set the initial (on manifold) then set the slots to 35 (vac capped) then mix/match springs FOR WOT then rehookup the vac adv & check it at a steady state high vacuum on the highway at an RPM above where the slots are maxed out AND just under the pinging point in everyday driving under varied vac conditions. I should check the 1406 on my 318 DD & look down & see if the secondaries are wide open at WOT and raise the idle to 750 & see if there's still no vacuum on the pass ported nipple
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300652
10/14/12 11:33 PM
10/14/12 11:33 PM
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Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
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Blair County,PA
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David,if you read the instructions,same as AVS ,both primaries and secondaries should reach full open at the same time,that link is the only adjustment,there is no other adjustment,nothing else is reevant.
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300654
10/16/12 08:04 PM
10/16/12 08:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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I checked my 1406 as installed on a bone stock '83 318 (exc for carb/streetmaster intake/dist tweaking) and my normal idle is ~600 and when I turned the idle speed screw in 1 exact turn (starting from just closed) the idle speed went up to 720 and no vacuum out of the pass (ported) port. then I cranked it up higher and ported did not start to show vacuum untill ~900 ish rpm and at 2 full turns in I was up to 1300 rpm and showing 1&1/2" vacuum. I run 18 deg of initial at ~600 rpm EDIT Oh I checked the throttle and the link did not start to open the secondaries until I was pretty close to WOT and it only opened them a very little bit . At that point it did take very little finger pressure to open them up all the way so I guess airflow opens the secondaries the rest of the way & also opens the counterweighted air valve above it
Last edited by RapidRobert; 10/16/12 09:13 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300656
10/19/12 01:02 AM
10/19/12 01:02 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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I can do that for you. I have a BB with a 600 carb dialed in for a 650 idle. I set my timeing and carb with the vac gauge along with the light for checking what it likes. it is dialed in on mine,idle at 650 and stomp it to floor and it goes right to WOT. no bog. just  I do the q-jet on the SB the same way,timeing light with vac gauge,dials it right in..i did have to tighten the back airdoor on the q-jet to fix the bog while tuning. it idles 650 and goes right to WOT makes the q-jet sound and drinks gas. with my old vac gauge i dont focus on the numbers so much. just watch it to see it reach its peak vac point and see how much I move it down from there and back up to peak. the old trick is to get the highest vac reading and back down 1 full Hg and try it to see if it likes that. just keep repeting and reseting curb idle,air mixture screws,timeing till you find what it likes. find the base and make notes from there..keep track of timing settings as you tune. I have mine set for good daily driving on the SB, but add some 91 gas.bump 4 more degrees of timeing and it picks up power without pinging. it will ping on the 87 gas, so i back it down 4 degrees to my base line setting. IMHO,what it likes will not be the specs in the FSM book. 
Last edited by scratchnfotraction; 10/19/12 01:17 AM.
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300660
10/22/12 08:13 PM
10/22/12 08:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 738
OK
David_Trimble
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 738
OK
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Update: I got ahold of a new vacuum gauge and retested the ported vacuum- I'm still getting ~13"Hg at idle like my old gauge was reading I'm not sure what to do at this point....
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: scratchnfotraction]
#1300664
10/23/12 09:59 AM
10/23/12 09:59 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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You could try using manifold vacuum instead of ported & tuning it that way. Put vac adv on the drivers (manifold) port & setting initial with the vac gauge method (max vac then back off 1" in hg) & as you know on manifold the can will be maxed at idle. then shorten the slots for 35 total with the can capped. then adj springs for WOT then hookup/adj the can for part throttle high rpm/around town as previously described. You have nothing to lose at this point & if it dont work to your satisfaction then we can continue on in a different direction. EDIT 36-38 rather than 35 total with vac capped (I forgot we are working with a BB) and if it's a low compression 383 I'd suggest 38
Last edited by RapidRobert; 10/23/12 12:22 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: scratchnfotraction]
#1300666
10/25/12 07:26 PM
10/25/12 07:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 738
OK
David_Trimble
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 738
OK
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Ok, I set up the distributor to the manifold vacuum on the driver's side port with the passenger side plugged. I connected the vacuum gauge to the manifold itself thru the headlight door pickup port on the intake itself. After warmup I adjusted the advance until the vacuum read 19.5"Hg (max) then backed it off to 18.5". I'm running about 25deg advance with that @750rpm.
For grins, I disconnected the can (plugging the vacuum line with my spare gauge) and revved up
the engine while watching the timing. At what I would guess around 3000rpm I was reading 40deg- didn't run it up higher than that (but it looked like it was maxing at 40). BTW it's a low comp 383 (low 9s I think) so since 38 is the target, I take it 40 is still a little high and I probably need to shorten the slots a bit more?
Also for grins I connected the spare gauge to the ported vacuum- I was reading 13"Hg off that
while the other gauge was reading 18" straight from the manifold (NOT the driver's side manifold port)
I'm a little concerned with my initial 25degree setting- for a BB does that sound normal?
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300667
10/25/12 09:36 PM
10/25/12 09:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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25 does sound high but you did do the (max vacuum minus 1 in hg) timing procedure correctly. As you noted some low compression 383's can take alot of advance & 40 total with the can capped may very well be fine. You might take it out as is & see where you're at with the springs listening for ping at WOT.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1300669
10/27/12 05:03 PM
10/27/12 05:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 738
OK
David_Trimble
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 738
OK
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@Robert- a quick question but I still have that 'test' distributor cap on the distributor- the cap with the phasing hole cut in it. Do I need to check for anything else using that cap at this point or can I go ahead and swap it out for the new cap?
'69 Dodge Charger R/T
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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question
[Re: David_Trimble]
#1300670
10/27/12 07:16 PM
10/27/12 07:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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The hole in the top would be for checking phasing and a larger rectangular hole in the side would be for checking rotor tip to cap terminal clearance but iirc we were much better on that one after adding the NAPA Echlin MO 3000 rotor. Actually the holes can & should stay if the cap is in good shape as it lets out ionized air molecules that can promote crossfire sorta like the electrified air between outspread tree branches and the ground when lightning strikes the top of the tree but with phasing and terminal clearance corrected we are in much less danger of that happenening though it does go against the grain to eyeball a cap with holes cut in it & to not wanna change it. I'm kinda surprised that it wanted 25 deg of initial & I'm interested to see how that goes
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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