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Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? #1292507
08/27/12 11:31 PM
08/27/12 11:31 PM
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Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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I have a set of box stock Edelbrock RPM heads on my 440/493 and was curious about head porting. I have 10.8 compression, a 292/509 cam, RPM intake, 850 VS carb, 2" TTI headers and 2 1/2" exhaust.
I dont drag race the car, but might someday. I've considered swapping in a Comp Cams XE285 stick.
I've asked around about porting here in Sacramento but haven't had much luck. I would expect this service to be pricey and wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze.
Any thoughts?

Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: Kern Dog] #1292508
08/28/12 12:23 AM
08/28/12 12:23 AM
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Manitoba, Canada
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Yes there are gains to be had, around 30cfm on the intake side at .500-600 lift. You want to send them to someone who does CNC porting like jeff at modern cylinder head. I think the service costs a bit over 1k but the results are very nice. It's up to you if it's worth it.

Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1292509
08/28/12 12:52 AM
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I agree definetly worth porting on a 493 eng. The CNC would be the way to go. Ron

Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1292510
08/28/12 12:54 AM
08/28/12 12:54 AM
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ahy Offline
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Air flow creates power. 30 CFM at peak lift is about 10% increase. Power increase is less as most "breathing" is at partial lift. Maybe 10% peak airflow is worth 5% power increase. Is it worth it to you?

Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: Kern Dog] #1292511
08/28/12 01:10 AM
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I had two sets of stock Eddy RPM heads flowed, I sent Jeff one set and he picked them up 32 CFM by using his CNC program on them, the reults where on the same flow bench by the same tech. at a machine shop I trust and use(Pettis Performance) They didn't have a interest or a dog in the fight in the results It is way better to have the flow(power available) and not need it than to not have enough flow(power) when you need or want it


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1292512
08/28/12 01:19 AM
08/28/12 01:19 AM
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Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Stupid question.....
What are the drawbacks, if any? Does fuel economy suffer? I know... anyone running 493 cubes shouldn't care, but I'm just curious about all aspects.

Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1292513
08/28/12 01:20 AM
08/28/12 01:20 AM
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Von Offline
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Some of the RPM castings OOTB are as poor as mid 260s. IIRC, modern can get 320ish out of em CNC'ed. That would make a monster difference on a 500 incher.


72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: Von] #1292514
08/28/12 01:27 AM
08/28/12 01:27 AM
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Kern Dog Offline OP
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Can someone elaborate a little about CNC porting? I seem to bypass most magazine articles on porting, but I seem to recall that it involves a computer programmed machine instead of porting by hand?
If so, I suppose the advantage is a more consistant port size from cylinder to cylinder?

Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: Kern Dog] #1292515
08/28/12 01:36 AM
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Quote:

Can someone elaborate a little about CNC porting? I seem to bypass most magazine articles on porting, but I seem to recall that it involves a computer programmed machine instead of porting by hand?
If so, I suppose the advantage is a more consistant port size from cylinder to cylinder?


I think that all of the CNC programs are based on hand porting two cylinder ports, a left and right hand port(I hope that makes sense ) to get the optimum flow and then have the CNC probe measure and store all the numbers in its memory and make all the other ports match those two, one left hand and one right hand If I'm wrong I hope someone will correct me Jeff, Dan, Todd?


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: Kern Dog] #1292516
08/28/12 03:04 AM
08/28/12 03:04 AM
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Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:

Can someone elaborate a little about CNC porting? I seem to bypass most magazine articles on porting, but I seem to recall that it involves a computer programmed machine instead of porting by hand?
If so, I suppose the advantage is a more consistant port size from cylinder to cylinder?




Basically the machine does it. With the computer in control, results can be duplicated and guaranteed.

Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: Kern Dog] #1292517
08/28/12 08:25 AM
08/28/12 08:25 AM
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I see you are in Ca. You would be in good hands using this guy.
http://www.immengines.com/
Brian is a member here and really knows his stuff!


The end is near.....
Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: tboomer] #1292518
08/28/12 08:46 AM
08/28/12 08:46 AM
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Jerry Offline
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whats the next head up from the edelbrock. is it worth upgrading the heads instead of cnc porting?


Superior Design Concepts
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Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: Jerry] #1292519
08/28/12 09:16 AM
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I have a pair of Victors that may go on my 512..


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Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: tboomer] #1292520
08/28/12 12:09 PM
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With the right cam and heads your 493 will make 600 hp, actually it shouldn't be hard. To get there you need around 300 cfm at 28" depression, the standard. You are at 260-270 now. an extra 30 cfm can mean more than 60 hp.

Think about it...if you built a stroker you must have wanted more power. Porting the heads is a proven way to get there, you would notice the difference with the cam you have now.

Going "the next step up" in an Edelbrock head puts you into the realm of offset rockers, more on the race side. I'd say don't do it unless you are a strictly quarter mile guy.

Jeff at Modern Cylinder heads seems to have the program for CNC porting these heads. As said above, a CNC program starts with an optimized port. It is then measured and the dimensions changed into directions for a computer numeric controlled milling machine. The machine does every port the same and it doesn't require a skilled individual to do it by hand. The net result is the best port for every cylinder. The hard part is getting the right port and making a program.

R.

Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: Jerry] #1292521
08/28/12 12:33 PM
08/28/12 12:33 PM
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Quote:

whats the next head up from the edelbrock. is it worth upgrading the heads instead of cnc porting?




I would think an Indy EZ

Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: JohnRR] #1292522
08/28/12 01:04 PM
08/28/12 01:04 PM
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"Little"John
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A good Friend of mine is clicking off 8.90's in his duster with a set of ported edelbrock at 2500#. I should add that he did this the last few weeks in terrible air.



Last edited by pittsburghracer; 08/28/12 01:06 PM.

1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: dogdays] #1292523
08/28/12 05:00 PM
08/28/12 05:00 PM
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Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines Offline
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Quote:

With the right cam and heads your 493 will make 600 hp, actually it shouldn't be hard. To get there you need around 300 cfm at 28" depression, the standard. You are at 260-270 now. an extra 30 cfm can mean more than 60 hp.

Think about it...if you built a stroker you must have wanted more power. Porting the heads is a proven way to get there, you would notice the difference with the cam you have now.

Going "the next step up" in an Edelbrock head puts you into the realm of offset rockers, more on the race side. I'd say don't do it unless you are a strictly quarter mile guy.

Jeff at Modern Cylinder heads seems to have the program for CNC porting these heads. As said above, a CNC program starts with an optimized port. It is then measured and the dimensions changed into directions for a computer numeric controlled milling machine. The machine does every port the same and it doesn't require a skilled individual to do it by hand. The net result is the best port for every cylinder. The hard part is getting the right port and making a program.

R. [/quoI agree 100% with Dog. Why bother stroking it then? Its a 493, let it breath.

Another example, such as Johns above, but totally different car, 3600# leaf spring foot brake bracket car, has gone 10.06 @132+, and goes and goes and goes. Not even really optimized, because its in bracket mode. Uses a shelf .650 Comp cam. Heads were 296@.550, 304 @ .600

The Eddy heads work very well. These heads were hand ported.Stuff it in the 2500# Duster below, and probably similar results, although I'd think the Duster has more lobe seperation and more lift, just guessing.

7354621-712profinal.jpg (250 downloads)

RIP Monte Smith

Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.

WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: pittsburghracer] #1292524
08/28/12 05:02 PM
08/28/12 05:02 PM
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Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines Offline
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Thats awesome John...did you do those heads? .700 ish lift? Electronics or Non Electronics car? How many CI" ?


RIP Monte Smith

Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.

WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: Jerry] #1292525
08/28/12 05:51 PM
08/28/12 05:51 PM
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LaRoy Engines Offline
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Quote:

whats the next head up from the edelbrock. is it worth upgrading the heads instead of cnc porting?




It depends upon how far you want to go. If you already own the RPM head, it can be hand ported to make 787 HP on a 451ci all motor, pump gas engine. To get that much from another head, you have to get the new head AND have it ported.

If you are looking for beyond 700 HP you should start with something other than the RPM head. If you already own them, 750 HP isn't beyond their capability.

Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #1292526
08/28/12 06:28 PM
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Quote:

Thats awesome John...did you do those heads? .700 ish lift? Electronics or Non Electronics car? How many CI" ?




Tom Hemphill from Clarksburg, Pa. either did the heads for him or guided him through the process. He runs in the Top Class (electronics) and Todd I am not really sure about engine specs but I know its a stock block. His Dad runs the "Tim's Toy" 68 Charger. I know Tim has clicked off some 8.60's with an Indy block and a set of B1BS heads that Tom did for him.




1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: Kern Dog] #1292527
08/28/12 06:31 PM
08/28/12 06:31 PM
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AndyF Offline
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Mopar Engines West isn't too far from you. They'll know how to port your heads. Give them a call or talk to FastmanEFI for a porting recommendation. He is in the SF area.

Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: pittsburghracer] #1292528
08/28/12 07:21 PM
08/28/12 07:21 PM
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That Charger looks just like a car that used to be pink, that ran out East, usually Lebanon Valley. A kid from CT or MA. owned it, and at that time ( 7-10 years ago) his buddy was running B1/BS heads on a Duster, both cars were running in the 8's, with the Charger usually right in the 8.70-8.90 range. Same car by any chance?


RIP Monte Smith

Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.

WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: LaRoy Engines] #1292529
08/28/12 07:24 PM
08/28/12 07:24 PM
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Heyoldguy,

I am curious, how does this 451 run at the track? No I am not being a pain, simple wanting to see how those numbers relate to actual on track tuning, adjustments etc.? Thanks.


RIP Monte Smith

Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.

WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #1292530
08/28/12 09:01 PM
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LaRoy Engines Offline
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That is a perfectly fair question.

I can't build MYSELF an engine, make the house payment and eat all at the same time. I still haven't caught up the mortgage from the last time we tested ourselves in a contest. If I can ever afford a car, transmission and suspension, we will find out.

Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #1292531
08/28/12 09:08 PM
08/28/12 09:08 PM
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Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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Quote:

That Charger looks just like a car that used to be pink, that ran out East, usually Lebanon Valley. Same car by any chance?




No... This car had the original 318 in it when I got it in March 2000.

7354946-00000002.JPG (145 downloads)
Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1292532
08/28/12 09:11 PM
08/28/12 09:11 PM
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Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
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I like it more the way it is now...

7354954-June12181.JPG (155 downloads)
Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: Kern Dog] #1292533
08/28/12 09:37 PM
08/28/12 09:37 PM
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Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines Offline
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Sorry, I was talking aout the Tims Toy car...but glad you posted...that is great, looks terrific..very nice.


RIP Monte Smith

Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.

WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #1292534
08/28/12 09:42 PM
08/28/12 09:42 PM
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"Little"John
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Quote:

That Charger looks just like a car that used to be pink, that ran out East, usually Lebanon Valley. A kid from CT or MA. owned it, and at that time ( 7-10 years ago) his buddy was running B1/BS heads on a Duster, both cars were running in the 8's, with the Charger usually right in the 8.70-8.90 range. Same car by any chance?




Tim has owned and raced that car for probably 30+ years. I never remember him in any other car except it. If I still had a scanner hooked up I would scan some pictures of it from the 70's when it was blue. For years it was the craziest leaving car you ever saw with the front left tire about 18" higher than the right. He had a terrible tranny explosion at Norwalk years ago and switched it over to a powerglide. He touched the wall at Quaker about 5-7 years ago and had it repainted. Its been running 8's for years and would crack a 400 block almost every year so he finally upgraded to an Indy block. Everyone always says you lose ET going to aluminum but when Tom H. dynoed it with the same combo it was only down 6hp and ran exactly the same and never used a vacuum pump on either engine. Sometimes we try to outsmart our self's.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: Kern Dog] #1292535
08/28/12 09:43 PM
08/28/12 09:43 PM
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Yes it is worth it.Period.
Even if you can't do CNC now even a good race valve job and some hand porting can make a noticeable difference in the right hands.Concentrate on the low and mid lifts more so than peak.
The cam upgrade you mentioned would likely pick up some power as well.

Re: Anything to gain by porting Edelbrock RPM heads? [Re: gch] #1292536
08/29/12 08:28 AM
08/29/12 08:28 AM
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Sacramento, Ca
Darius Offline
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Hey Greg
I have seen my friend Dean hand port heads a few times. It might be at least worth having a chat with him.
PM me and I will get you his contact info if you want it.
D


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