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Re: what about putting a carb on a magnum motor?
[Re: Rick_Ehrenberg]
#1285481
08/16/12 12:00 PM
08/16/12 12:00 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 51
Texas
ChristianCuda
member
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member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 51
Texas
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Quote:
Surprised nobody mentioned how easy it is to use the junkyard PCM and harness, and keep the SMPI!
Rick
Now where is the info on how to do this as that info is few and far between.
I would gladly keep the stock barrel intake although I understand it isn't much for about 5k rpms and for my project it needs to be able to do 5000-5500 where the valves will probably start to float. I want to get the jet bot on the water this year and over the winter tear the motor down and rebuild it with better parts need to see what the boat does as is for now.
The Op might benefit from this knowledge as well if he is using a pretty much stock system. Although I have heard a stock 360 magnum with a carb can make more power than a completely stock magnum 360 with the barrel intake and FI.
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Re: what about putting a carb on a magnum motor?
[Re: ChristianCuda]
#1285482
08/16/12 01:26 PM
08/16/12 01:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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Quote:
Although I have heard a stock 360 magnum with a carb can make more power than a completely stock magnum 360 with the barrel intake and FI.
this is true. in stock form, the EFI 5.9 was rated at 345 tq and 250hp. the stock manifold is a TRUCK manifold, meant for low RPM torque/towing.
the 300hp crate engines were just a bone stock 5.9 with a carb and dual plane intake. the biggest gain is from the intake, which allows the motor to breathe up to 5-6k rpm, which is where the higher Hp comes from. carry 345 ft lbs higher into the RPM range, and you make more Hp.
the 380hp crate engine was the same bone stock 5.9 with a cam, intake and carb. My truck is a near copy of that motor, I'm running a hughes whiplash cam 222/228 @ .050, .544 lift and 106LSA (with their 1110 springs, retainers, etc), plus a stock TB ported to 50mm (stock has 50mm plates, but necks down to 47mm just above the plates), and the single plane, MPFI M1 intake; I made 281-285 rwhp, which puts me right up at that 360-380 crank hp mark.
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Re: what about putting a carb on a magnum motor?
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1285483
08/16/12 03:26 PM
08/16/12 03:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 457
Hightstown, NJ
njdevil2
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 457
Hightstown, NJ
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Um, Information is far and few between? If you followed Rick's Savoy project(Mopar Action), you'd see how EASY it was.....I was tempted to do it and yes IT WAS THAT EASY. The information is out there folks, and really, it isn't that hard to find. And junk yard SMPI 5.9's(360)are as cheap as small block GM's (last time I went looking, it was intake to pan for $550).
1970 road runner Convertible
1 of 179
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Re: what about putting a carb on a magnum motor?
[Re: Rick_Ehrenberg]
#1285486
08/16/12 10:11 PM
08/16/12 10:11 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,235
Marion Illinois
72d100
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,235
Marion Illinois
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Quote:
Surprised nobody mentioned how easy it is to use the junkyard PCM and harness, and keep the SMPI!
Rick
Not to steal the thread but lets say i have a 98 engine trans and the engine bay harness. could i just use another computer from a 5.9 or does it all have to be from the same engine?
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Re: what about putting a carb on a magnum motor?
[Re: 72d100]
#1285487
08/16/12 10:36 PM
08/16/12 10:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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any V8 computer will work. sorta.
I should say, if you currently have a 5.9L auto combo, any 5.2/5.9 computer out of a truck with an automatic will work. but look for a non-security PCM. otherwise it'll fire, run for 3 seconds, then the PCM kills the injectors because it doesn't "see" the correct body computer and thinks it's being stolen or something.
otherwise match the number of cylinders and type of transmission, and you're good to go.
but, if you are re-programing the computer like with SCT (sorry DaytonaTurbo!!) then you can use any 3.9/5.2/5.9 computer and simply load the program on it for your set-up.
Or if you know someone at a dealer, they can hook you up with a factory re-flash of the computer, which will overwrite EVERYTHING. they can turn a security PCM into a non-security PCM, a 3.9V6 stick shift to a 5.9V8 auto.
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Re: what about putting a carb on a magnum motor?
[Re: 72d100]
#1285488
08/17/12 01:29 AM
08/17/12 01:29 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
Rick_Ehrenberg
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Surprised nobody mentioned how easy it is to use the junkyard PCM and harness, and keep the SMPI!
Rick
Not to steal the thread but lets say i have a 98 engine trans and the engine bay harness. could i just use another computer from a 5.9 or does it all have to be from the same engine?
96-up: If everything remains stock (fuel pressure, injectors, etc.) the computer should be for the same displacement as the engine you're using. If the computer is from at A.T. truck, you must have a "RE" trans (electronic gov.) or it will go into limp (pulls back spark). The fix? Just use a M.T. computer.
Rick
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Re: what about putting a carb on a magnum motor?
[Re: Rick_Ehrenberg]
#1285489
08/17/12 08:02 AM
08/17/12 08:02 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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Rick, there's been more than one guy who's run a 5.9 on a 5.2 tune--stock for stock. the open loop tune (WOT) is so rich, that a stock 5.2 tune does just fine with a 5.9, especially when you consider that the 5.2 has a bigger cam than the 5.9, and that their actual power output is only about 25 hp apart from each other. then when the computer goes into closed loop, it's reading the AFR through the O2 sensors in the exhaust, and will automatically tweak the fuel trims to keep it from going lean.
I'm not saying that it's "right" or that the computers are the same, only that it can be done without hurting anything and will get you up and running
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Re: what about putting a carb on a magnum motor?
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1285490
08/17/12 08:51 AM
08/17/12 08:51 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
Rick_Ehrenberg
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
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Quote:
Rick, there's been more than one guy who's run a 5.9 on a 5.2 tune--stock for stock. the open loop tune (WOT) is so rich, that a stock 5.2 tune does just fine with a 5.9, especially when you consider that the 5.2 has a bigger cam than the 5.9, and that their actual power output is only about 25 hp apart from each other. then when the computer goes into closed loop, it's reading the AFR through the O2 sensors in the exhaust, and will automatically tweak the fuel trims to keep it from going lean.
I'm not saying that it's "right" or that the computers are the same, only that it can be done without hurting anything and will get you up and running
At light throttle, all the adaptives have gotta be nearly maxed out.
True, they were all pig rich at WOT to save the cat. Add a few bolt-ons (bigger TB, headers, bigger exhaust, etc.) and you wind up close to 12.5:1. In fact, one engineer told me that the cal was rich to "cover" the possibility of someone running a car with an exhaust that had fallen off just past the "Y".
Rick
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Re: what about putting a carb on a magnum motor?
[Re: Rick_Ehrenberg]
#1285491
08/17/12 09:20 AM
08/17/12 09:20 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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Too Many Posts
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
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I don't know how far the PCM can swing to adjust the tune for closed loop, part throttle tune, I don't think SCT can tweak anything but timing tables when it goes into closed loop, but I'll have to run that by the guy I use to write the programs.
but my modified 5.9 that makes 285rwhp cruises at 14.7 AFR in closed loop mode, and is running stock injectors, pump, computer, etc. the only thing adjusted there is the program on the PCM via SCT.
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Re: what about putting a carb on a magnum motor?
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1285492
08/17/12 09:48 AM
08/17/12 09:48 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 51
Texas
ChristianCuda
member
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member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 51
Texas
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Quote:
especially when you consider that the 5.2 has a bigger cam than the 5.9,
I am about to hijack this thread one more time but a quick question would it be wise to use a 5.2 cam in a 5.9 for more power since it has a bigger cam? I was under the impression that the cams were the same.
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Re: what about putting a carb on a magnum motor?
[Re: ChristianCuda]
#1285493
08/17/12 09:58 AM
08/17/12 09:58 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
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If you have a 5.2 cam sitting around, yea, it should give a modest bump in Hp/tq over the stock 5.9 cam. but I wouldn't pay any money for a 5.2 cam. if I was going to pay money, I'd just buy a "real" cam.
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Re: what about putting a carb on a magnum motor?
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1285496
08/20/12 10:21 AM
08/20/12 10:21 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 51
Texas
ChristianCuda
member
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member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 51
Texas
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Quote:
CC is your jet drive made for a 70's small block? Because if so, even a bone stock 5.2 magnum will make way more power than the original engine in front of that thing.
It originally had a marine 340 rated at 250hp. The marine 440s were only rated at 330HP.
I am not sure what this Chrysler designed Jet will take regarding HP though so not wanting to go too big on it until I get a chance to test it out on the water. There are not too many of them around and not too many people hot rodding the ones they do have. I have been told that it probably won't take much more than I will get out of this stock 360 magnum by some people that know the normal jets Berkley's and Jacuzzi's saying its design is similar to a specific Jacuzzi that just wont take much HP without major modification and even then is not worth much more and has its limitations.
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