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Re: wierd question about frame connectors
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1260980
07/02/12 08:06 PM
07/02/12 08:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817
Eugene, Oregon
Secret Chimp
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817
Eugene, Oregon
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It would be channeled to the suspension, yes. Stiffening your car effectively lowers your spring rates since the body is absorbing less of the forces transmitted through the wheels.
1967 Dodge Coronet Deluxe station wagon
1.03" T-bars, QA1 arms/rods, Cordoba/GM Metric/Volare brake & knuckle, XHDs, Hellwig rear sway, 318 Magnum w/ air gap, 727, 3.23s
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Re: wierd question about frame connectors
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1260982
07/02/12 08:50 PM
07/02/12 08:50 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
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The engine twisting the car energy would go into making the car go faster once the car was stiffer.
But the twisting car also gets the energy back as the car untwists.
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: wierd question about frame connectors
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1260988
07/04/12 10:13 AM
07/04/12 10:13 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,357
central Florida
VL21
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,357
central Florida
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Not an engineer or drag racer, but here is my take on it. Even in a stock vehicle, torque tries to twist the body, left front up. In most cars the body absorbs this by flexing, sort of why there is all those squeaks and groans in a well used car. Any stiffening of the body will work to transfer this twist to the right rear (opposite corner). Watch a stock body leave the line. I have seen some leave/twist enough to crack a windshield. Stiffen things up, the twist goes away, the front of the car rises, rears are planted more squarely. The energy is being now transferred into lifting the front as the body tries to rotate around the axle. Dissipated when the front settles. The tighter things are the more of your torque is used to make things move. Cornering energy sort of the same thing, taking the twist out will help plant the tires and make the suspension work. The energy comes from the compressing suspension... Had an old Impala winter beater once that was so loose it broke the windshield just banging snow banks...of course that was due to advanced state of slow combustion, aka rust.  I'm sure I missed something...and just as sure someone will straighten me out. 
It takes gasoline to interest me.
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Re: wierd question about frame connectors
[Re: VL21]
#1260989
07/04/12 10:22 AM
07/04/12 10:22 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
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Quote:
Not an engineer or drag racer, but here is my take on it.
Even in a stock vehicle, torque tries to twist the body, left front up.
In most cars the body absorbs this by flexing, sort of why there is all those squeaks and groans in a well used car.
Any stiffening of the body will work to transfer this twist to the right rear (opposite corner). Watch a stock body leave the line. I have seen some leave/twist enough to crack a windshield.
Stiffen things up, the twist goes away, the front of the car rises, rears are planted more squarely.
The energy is being now transferred into lifting the front as the body tries to rotate around the axle. Dissipated when the front settles.
The tighter things are the more of your torque is used to make things move.
Cornering energy sort of the same thing, taking the twist out will help plant the tires and make the suspension work. The energy comes from the compressing suspension...
Had an old Impala winter beater once that was so loose it broke the windshield just banging snow banks...of course that was due to advanced state of slow combustion, aka rust.
I'm sure I missed something...and just as sure someone will straighten me out.
this is exactly what i thought would happen and if both of us are wrong i'm sure someone will chime in..... nicely 
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Re: wierd question about frame connectors
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1260990
07/04/12 11:24 AM
07/04/12 11:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,165
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,165
Park Forest, IL
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Actually, stiffening the body pushes the twist forward. That's why a car with good connectors and a cage will pull the wheels level instead of left higher.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: wierd question about frame connectors
[Re: slantzilla]
#1260991
07/04/12 12:10 PM
07/04/12 12:10 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
mikemee1331
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
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Quote:
Actually, stiffening the body pushes the twist forward. That's why a car with good connectors and a cage will pull the wheels level instead of left higher.
interesting, i wondered why some seem more level/straighter than others. the next part of my question is real vague but i'll ask. at what point (1/4 mile time) is it more important to have connectors? a 14 sec car would have little to no use for this mod and probably not 13 to 12. but a low 12 to high 11 car would benefit? reason for ask is my car is currently a mid 12 car,b-body, 3500lbs, with 29x15x15 tires. i've made changes that i hope will put me in the high 11's. would i see enough of a benefit to justify the cost for something i might do once or twice a year?
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Re: wierd question about frame connectors
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1260992
07/04/12 01:34 PM
07/04/12 01:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,165
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,165
Park Forest, IL
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The biggest benefit you'll get from it is that you will not beat your car up so badly. Any time a car leaves hard enough to extend the front suspension all the way it will eventually wrinkle/bend the car.
I wrinkled the roof on a 340/auto Challenger that was a low 14 second car after I put slicks on it.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: wierd question about frame connectors
[Re: mikemee1331]
#1260994
07/04/12 02:51 PM
07/04/12 02:51 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
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You might want do a search on the topic. It has been beat to death. No one has ever made a definitive case as to what frame frame connectors actually do IMO. EVERYONE has a opinion. There are many forces acting in concert here. Twist/chassis torque certainty is one, and frame connectors IMO really don't do a good job of resisting the twist, help, but a poor solution, and certainly better then nothing. Twist would be best resisted by a 5'? diameter tube (obviously impractical), and 2 2x2 or 2x3 tubes on one face of a rectangular box are not an efficient design to resist chassis twist. But to answer your question where do forces go, if the chassis does not absorb them, they remain useful in accelerating the chassis. The chassis will release only some of the stored twist if its beyond elastic state, but unless its a 100% efficient spring, (its not) some energy will be converted to heat as the chassis bends/twist, and will not given back as the power comes down, but this is likley splitting hairs. 
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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