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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: DrCharles]
#1234465
05/16/12 04:53 PM
05/16/12 04:53 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,793
Castlegar, BC, Canada
That AMC Guy
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Posts: 4,793
Castlegar, BC, Canada
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I can only assume it's like putting a V8 in the Hornet/Gremlin series. It will eventually go in, but it's a tight fit!
Bloody Mary, Full of Vodka, Blessed art thou among cocktails....
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: maximum entropy]
#1234467
05/16/12 05:00 PM
05/16/12 05:00 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
340SHORTY
Truck Nut
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Truck Nut
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
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How do you plan on making the B body headers fit ?
I am truckless..
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: DrCharles]
#1234468
05/16/12 05:05 PM
05/16/12 05:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,228
Colleyville
3hundred
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 10,228
Colleyville
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As a C body guy, I shouldn't tell you this, but you need a C body pan. Milodon used to make a nice deep pan that would work, don't know about anything aftermarket currently.  Robert
'68 Fury Convertible
'69 300 Convertible
'15 Durango 5.7 Hemi
'16 300 S Hemi
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: 340SHORTY]
#1234469
05/16/12 05:11 PM
05/16/12 05:11 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Chino Valley
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I'd pull all steering linkage but leave the box in. I'd test fit from underneath without the motor plate (and K frame). I have no idea where you got a front sump. Trucks use rear sump, cars use mid sump. I'd also be prepared for clutch linkage issues and have a mini starter already fitted to the engine before install. Take a look at bigblockdart.com for more info. I don't know if a BB/scattershield/4 speed and headers will require very specific parts, but they would know the best combos. I'd also have a grinder, torch and big hammer close by!
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: 3hundred]
#1234470
05/16/12 05:11 PM
05/16/12 05:11 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
DrCharles
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West Plains, MO
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Last time I did this (383 in a '76 Valiant) I used a Moroso 7-qt pan... don't remember the part number though. It seems I actually do have a so-called "center sump" pan (the $80 Chinese ones that 440source and ebayers sell). But it's not actually dead center, which would have cleared the k-frame. Will look for C-body deep pans, thanks for the tip. Re: B-body headers, check the BBD tech pages . In fact this is the same set that was used in the pics (I bought them from Darrin a while back).
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: DrCharles]
#1234472
05/16/12 05:27 PM
05/16/12 05:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
Striving for excellence
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Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
..... front motor plate.....
my deep oil pan won't clear the K-member .... I need a center-sump pan. Oh well, it's just MORE money and hassle :P
Now I know why I haven't tried a B-block A-body in nearly 30 years... but this IS fun, isn't it? 
I thought that one of the advantages of using a motor plate is to eliminate the K member/engine attachment issue? The factory k member& engine mounts, as well as the trans mount are responsible for the fore/aft location of the engine and trans. When you deviate from stock, these kinds of fitment issues are sure to happen.
I've found that a majority of car applications require a mid sump oil pan when using the stock k member.
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1234473
05/16/12 05:42 PM
05/16/12 05:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
DrCharles
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Thanks, but as I posted above, it's actually a center sump pan. Even so, the sump is too far forward. Also, my engine will sit in the stock position (since I'm using the original trans mount, it has to). The front plate is for header clearance, not to relocate my engine... This may be a stupid question, but is it possible that I put the pan on backwards? Or do they only go on one way... 
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: DrCharles]
#1234474
05/16/12 05:46 PM
05/16/12 05:46 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
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NJ-USA
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Quote:
Thanks, but as I posted above, it's actually a center sump pan. Even so, the sump is too far forward.
Also, my engine will sit in the stock position (since I'm using the original trans mount, it has to). The front plate is for header clearance, not to relocate my engine...
This may be a stupid question, but is it possible that I put the pan on backwards? Or do they only go on one way...
It only goes on one way,....
I use a Milodon, but you still need to make a notch for steering linkage clearance. TTI headers should work fine.
MB
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: mopar_man]
#1234477
05/16/12 06:00 PM
05/16/12 06:00 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
DrCharles
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West Plains, MO
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Quote:
I have done the A body RB block change about 8-9 times . used a 400 base pan with center sump . i also cut off some of the lip on the k member and then mig welded it. I also bent back the lip on fire wall/floor pan to give transmission a bit more clearance. Always went with Hp manifolds as I hate headers. Make sure engine is set as low as possible because you could have some clearance issues with carb /breather / hood. may have to use shorter spacer on fan depending what rad you have. Good Luck . 
Thanks for the hints. The last two times I did this swap, I did not have to cut or modify the k-member (or the pan either)... I wish I could remember which Moroso pan I used!
The stock pan even with a mild 383 would lose oil pressure on a vigorous launch, so I definitely want a 7-qt pan for the 451...
I have already hammered the lip in the tunnel flat, otherwise it wouldn't clear the scattershield 
Planning on electric fan, and it's still going to be tight, but I have to get the beast under the hood first 
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: jlatessa]
#1234481
05/16/12 07:12 PM
05/16/12 07:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Chino Valley
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Quote:
Try the engine without the trans, it looks like maybe if the engine is more level you might have a better chance.
Joe
I agree, and you want to have the wiring for that starter on and tight to A. check for clearance. B. So you do not have to install after the headers are on.
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: jlatessa]
#1234482
05/16/12 07:30 PM
05/16/12 07:30 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
DrCharles
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West Plains, MO
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Quote:
Try the engine without the trans, it looks like maybe if the engine is more level you might have a better chance.
Scattershield is up against the tunnel too... no way unless I removed it, and then how would I get it reconnected. I think I just need a different style pan. I'm going to measure the distance from the front rail to the front of the sump and see if another pan has the required couple of inches.
Here's another view - that sump just looks awfully far forwards:
Thanks for the wiring hints. This is just a "trial fit" so I can make the motor plate to frame rail brackets. Once it goes in for hopefully the final time with the headers alongside, I'll have the starter wired up
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: RodStRace]
#1234483
05/16/12 07:31 PM
05/16/12 07:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,518
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,518
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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Done it dozens of times and you CANNOT put the engine and trans in at the same time with a deep pan! You must put the engine in first, then put the bellhousing on, then the trans, there is NO OTHER WAY to do it! The Lakewood bellhousing is part of the issue too, I quit using them in A-Body's 30 years ago! Also, B-Body headers will not fit, unless you have a flame hammer handy. You should have asked a few questions here before trying that combination. 
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1234485
05/16/12 07:45 PM
05/16/12 07:45 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
DrCharles
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Maybe it can't be done with the Lakewood due to its larger diameter... but I have put three B and RB engines (with deep pans on all of them) in A-bodies and don't remember having to do it without the trans on any of them. On the other hand, that WAS in the '80's...  I'll do it in pieces if I have to, though. I thought this was the "standard" Chinese deep pan, but maybe not. What do you think of the sump position in the pics? Did you see the link I posted earlier to BBD showing these headers (the very same set) in a Dart with B engine, manual steering, no column shift (exactly my combo)? http://www.bigblockdart.com/techpages/BBody.shtmlHedman 78030 B-body headers are a well-known economy header for A-bodies with the above setup. I have already applied a flame wrench and ball-peen adjuster (again, not very much needed) so they bolt up to the engine/trans. They were "pre-dinged" for clearance by the previous owner in the few small spots required, but I'm prepared to tap them a couple more times if needed... -Charles PS I want to keep my right foot in the event of a clutch/flywheel explosion, hence the scattershield... they are rare, but sometimes devastating when they do happen.
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: Dodgeguy101]
#1234487
05/16/12 09:58 PM
05/16/12 09:58 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
DrCharles
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West Plains, MO
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Quote:
Well, it won't go in because you have the wrong pan. You need the center sump.
Yep, even I have figured that out by now  I just measured my Chinese oil pan... it's only 5" from the front rail edge to the sump! No wonder I couldn't get the engine in... it's more like a front-sump pan. I didn't get it from 440source, but from an ebay store I can't recall. Shoulda known better...
My pan is also a long 11-12" from the rear edge to the sump and there's lots of clearance to the center link (the Moroso 20760, for which I can find dimensions, is 8" there). it doesn't show the front dimension, but the pics of both the Milodon and the Moroso are obviously quite a bit longer in front than 5"... a guy on BBD measured his and that dimension is 7.5. So that will buy me 2.5" which will probably be enough 
Quote:
Got mine from Source one. Great pan for the price.
Who're they? which part number?
I can get the Milodon 30730 or the Moroso for about the same $260 with pick-up from Summit.
Quote:
I put mine in and out by myself all the time with a deep center pan. You don't have to take anything off of the engine compartment. Mine is a rb with an auto. All I had to do was bend the lip above the auto trans to make it fit.
Yep, I already hammered that lip flat with an 8-lb sledge and "finished" the job with a 4-lb hammer 
Once I get the proper pan, I will pull the column again and see if that gives me enough room to get the Hedmans in, and if not I guess I'll drop the K-frame. I am not an octopus (and have no helpers) so it will be next to impossible to slide the headers into place while also dropping the engine!
Thanks for the variety of approaches... I'll let you know how it comes out. Or in. 
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: DrCharles]
#1234488
05/16/12 10:07 PM
05/16/12 10:07 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
Dodgeguy101
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Well, it won't go in because you have the wrong pan. You need the center sump.
Yep, even I have figured that out by now I just measured my Chinese oil pan... it's only 5" from the front rail edge to the sump! No wonder I couldn't get the engine in... it's more like a front-sump pan. I didn't get it from 440source, but from an ebay store I can't recall. Shoulda known better...
My pan is also a long 11-12" from the rear edge to the sump and there's lots of clearance to the center link (the Moroso 20760, for which I can find dimensions, is 8" there). it doesn't show the front dimension, but the pics of both the Milodon and the Moroso are obviously quite a bit longer in front than 5"... a guy on BBD measured his and that dimension is 7.5. So that will buy me 2.5" which will probably be enough
Quote:
Got mine from Source one. Great pan for the price.
Who're they? which part number?
I can get the Milodon 30730 or the Moroso for about the same $260 with pick-up from Summit.
Quote:
I put mine in and out by myself all the time with a deep center pan. You don't have to take anything off of the engine compartment. Mine is a rb with an auto. All I had to do was bend the lip above the auto trans to make it fit.
Yep, I already hammered that lip flat with an 8-lb sledge and "finished" the job with a 4-lb hammer
Once I get the proper pan, I will pull the column again and see if that gives me enough room to get the Hedmans in, and if not I guess I'll drop the K-frame. I am not an octopus (and have no helpers) so it will be next to impossible to slide the headers into place while also dropping the engine!
Thanks for the variety of approaches... I'll let you know how it comes out. Or in.
Stick with it, it is worth the trouble. 
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: DrCharles]
#1234489
05/16/12 10:12 PM
05/16/12 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,518
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,518
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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Maybe it can't be done with the Lakewood due to its larger diameter... but I have put three B and RB engines (with deep pans on all of them) in A-bodies and don't remember having to do it without the trans on any of them. On the other hand, that WAS in the '80's... I'll do it in pieces if I have to, though. I use an Ansen bellhousing specifically designed for a big block A-Body, though they are hard to find. I thought this was the "standard" Chinese deep pan, but maybe not. What do you think of the sump position in the pics? Definitely need a center sump pan, even with that pan I have never been able to put the engine/trans in together. Did you see the link I posted earlier to BBD showing these headers (the very same set) in a Dart with B engine, manual steering, no column shift (exactly my combo)? http://www.bigblockdart.com/techpages/BBody.shtmlHedman 78030 B-body headers are a well-known economy header for A-bodies with the above setup. Ah yes, the Hedman headers, I did that back in 1995 and got them to work, so as long as they have already been hammered they might fit...  I have already applied a flame wrench and ball-peen adjuster (again, not very much needed) so they bolt up to the engine/trans. They were "pre-dinged" for clearance by the previous owner in the few small spots required, but I'm prepared to tap them a couple more times if needed... -Charles PS I want to keep my right foot in the event of a clutch/flywheel explosion, hence the scattershield... they are rare, but sometimes devastating when they do happen. Wear lead boots like I do... 
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: DrCharles]
#1234490
05/16/12 10:19 PM
05/16/12 10:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
Dodgeguy101
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Well, it won't go in because you have the wrong pan. You need the center sump.
Yep, even I have figured that out by now I just measured my Chinese oil pan... it's only 5" from the front rail edge to the sump! No wonder I couldn't get the engine in... it's more like a front-sump pan. I didn't get it from 440source, but from an ebay store I can't recall. Shoulda known better...
My pan is also a long 11-12" from the rear edge to the sump and there's lots of clearance to the center link (the Moroso 20760, for which I can find dimensions, is 8" there). it doesn't show the front dimension, but the pics of both the Milodon and the Moroso are obviously quite a bit longer in front than 5"... a guy on BBD measured his and that dimension is 7.5. So that will buy me 2.5" which will probably be enough
Quote:
Got mine from Source one. Great pan for the price.
Who're they? which part number?
I can get the Milodon 30730 or the Moroso for about the same $260 with pick-up from Summit.
Quote:
I put mine in and out by myself all the time with a deep center pan. You don't have to take anything off of the engine compartment. Mine is a rb with an auto. All I had to do was bend the lip above the auto trans to make it fit.
Yep, I already hammered that lip flat with an 8-lb sledge and "finished" the job with a 4-lb hammer
Once I get the proper pan, I will pull the column again and see if that gives me enough room to get the Hedmans in, and if not I guess I'll drop the K-frame. I am not an octopus (and have no helpers) so it will be next to impossible to slide the headers into place while also dropping the engine!
Thanks for the variety of approaches... I'll let you know how it comes out. Or in.
Sorry, 440 source, I don't remember the part number, but when I called to check to see if it would fit, whoever answered the phone, said they didn't say it would fit, but from the pics, it was a center sump. Yes it fit fine, just didn't like their tone I guess. Why sell a pan if you don't know what it fits? Anyway, it does the job for 80 or so, whatever it was. If I had to do it over, would probbly get the Milodon that has the side tanks built on it for more ground clearance.
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: Dodgeguy101]
#1234491
05/16/12 11:01 PM
05/16/12 11:01 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
DrCharles
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West Plains, MO
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Quote:
Sorry, 440 source, I don't remember the part number, but when I called to check to see if it would fit, whoever answered the phone, said they didn't say it would fit, but from the pics, it was a center sump. Yes it fit fine, just didn't like their tone I guess. Why sell a pan if you don't know what it fits? Anyway, it does the job for 80 or so, whatever it was. If I had to do it over, would probbly get the Milodon that has the side tanks built on it for more ground clearance.
Thanks. I looked at the 440source one and it looks a lot like the one I have (too close to the front). So I pried open my wallet and ordered a Milodon 30930 that has side "kickouts" and the matching pickup from Summit. There's another Milodon with actual side tanks but it's around $400 
Even $276 ("free" shipping, $12.95 "Handling") is a lot of money for a plain old wet-sump pan, but paying for one is not half as aggravating as not being able to get the engine in the @#$% car
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: DrCharles]
#1234492
05/16/12 11:08 PM
05/16/12 11:08 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
Dodgeguy101
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Sorry, 440 source, I don't remember the part number, but when I called to check to see if it would fit, whoever answered the phone, said they didn't say it would fit, but from the pics, it was a center sump. Yes it fit fine, just didn't like their tone I guess. Why sell a pan if you don't know what it fits? Anyway, it does the job for 80 or so, whatever it was. If I had to do it over, would probbly get the Milodon that has the side tanks built on it for more ground clearance.
Thanks. I looked at the 440source one and it looks a lot like the one I have (too close to the front). So I pried open my wallet and ordered a Milodon 30930 that has side "kickouts" and the matching pickup from Summit. There's another Milodon with actual side tanks but it's around $400
Even $276 ("free" shipping, $12.95 "Handling") is a lot of money for a plain old wet-sump pan, but paying for one is not half as aggravating as not being able to get the engine in the @#$% car
I looked on the site, the number is 121-1002. That one will fit. Picture is a little off, but it fits fine.
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: 65rbdodge]
#1234500
05/17/12 10:03 PM
05/17/12 10:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,518
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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Quote:
in my 71 dart w/400 i have hedman b-body headers, #187 oil pan, 727, modified(motor mounts) 73+sb k-frame. it all fit, headers needed a few dings, but nothing major. HEDMAN B-BODY HEADERS DO FIT!
I first used the Hedman headers in the early 90's. They are 1-3/4 tubes and really too small for the 440, but perfect for a 383/400 unless stroked. Of course they are much better than ANY factory exhaust manifolds.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: sickhemi]
#1234501
05/17/12 10:09 PM
05/17/12 10:09 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
DrCharles
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Quote:
i put my 440 inmt dart without the blowshield istalled with the milodon 7qt pan. the front right corner of the pan was a little tuff to get by the k-frame a notch would have helped. had to put the blowshield on after the engine was in place and that sucked 
My Milodon pan is supposed to be delivered tomorrow.
Rhinodart also says it can't be done with a scattershield and deep pan. I may give it a quick try just to learn for myself the hard way
I am seriously considering dropping the K-frame... at this stage the car is a "roller" with no front shocks or brake lines, so I'd only have to pull the t-bars, tubular upper control arms, disconnect the steering U-joint, and then the four big bolts!
I'm using a motor plate anyway, so the engine can sit quietly on the frame rails while I put the headers in from underneath and then lift the K-frame straight up into place, without having to "steer" the engine around the Milodon pan.
I would much rather do this than try and put the scattershield back on with the engine in the car... indeed!
Any thoughts on this approach, or problems I haven't thought of yet?
thanks
Charles
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: DrCharles]
#1234504
05/18/12 10:06 AM
05/18/12 10:06 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
Dodgeguy101
mopar
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mopar
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Posts: 632
MD-USA
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Quote:
Quote:
i put my 440 inmt dart without the blowshield istalled with the milodon 7qt pan. the front right corner of the pan was a little tuff to get by the k-frame a notch would have helped. had to put the blowshield on after the engine was in place and that sucked
My Milodon pan is supposed to be delivered tomorrow.
Rhinodart also says it can't be done with a scattershield and deep pan. I may give it a quick try just to learn for myself the hard way
I am seriously considering dropping the K-frame... at this stage the car is a "roller" with no front shocks or brake lines, so I'd only have to pull the t-bars, tubular upper control arms, disconnect the steering U-joint, and then the four big bolts!
I'm using a motor plate anyway, so the engine can sit quietly on the frame rails while I put the headers in from underneath and then lift the K-frame straight up into place, without having to "steer" the engine around the Milodon pan.
I would much rather do this than try and put the scattershield back on with the engine in the car... indeed!
Any thoughts on this approach, or problems I haven't thought of yet?
thanks
Charles
Well, I can't say anything about the scatter shield, but mine went in with the deep pan. Now mind you it was tight, and the trans was on it. But the suggestion to raise the front, not sure, I have raised the rear of the car and it helped to get the angle better to let the deep pan go over the radiator support. I think if it was me, I would put the engine in, and support the front of it with the front plate and let the rear drop down and put the shield on. Although not sure about your headers. I think you are going to have so many things going on dropping the K member, etc. I would try this first before I did all that. Just my 2 cents. Maybe go to hooters and get a few women to help you. 
Either way, let us know how you got it in, have to give a man credit for putting a RB in a A body anyway you go about it. Good luck.
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1234507
05/18/12 10:59 PM
05/18/12 10:59 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
DrCharles
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Quote:
Time to pony-up for an Alter-K... 
Ya, sure... if that was in my budget do you think I'd be farting around with B-body headers
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1234509
05/19/12 03:01 PM
05/19/12 03:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
Dodgeguy101
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
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Quote:
Time to pony-up for an Alter-K...
Instigator.. 
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: CoDart]
#1234510
05/21/12 08:06 PM
05/21/12 08:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
DrCharles
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
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Quote:
I'm going to be keeping a real close eye on this thread. I'm going to be doing almost the same setup, I'm doing a 727 trans instead but I will do a 451 and b body headers 
727 will definitely be easier than a scattershield/4-speed...
Today I swapped pans, which was a breeze with the K-frame off! The Milodon definitely has the sump farther to the rear than the off-brand pan. I did have to grind just a touch from the Hughes stud girdle where it interfered with the new pickup tube in order to get the threads started.
While the K-frame is removed, I also took off the left side header, making it easy to install the dipstick tube and route the wiring to the starter. But when I turned over the engine from the crank snout, I could hear the gears in the mini-starter rattling and turning  ...it seems that the block plate of the scattershield does not position the starter sufficiently forwards, and the pinion gear is just touching the ring gear. 
I have ordered a starter shim/seal but by the time it gets here I have to leave town for 2.5 weeks... so I may not be posting on this thread for a while. Oh well, at least I discovered this latest "doesn't fit" problem before putting the whole thing back together 
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: DrCharles]
#1234511
05/26/12 07:06 PM
05/26/12 07:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
DrCharles
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
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The engine is now firmly seated in the proper position (there are pics of the mounts I made on BBD). The starter seal came so I installed it and used the battery to spin the engine with the plugs out (after prelubing and also a squirt of motor oil into each cylinder; it'd been sitting quite a while). No dragging of the starter pinion on the ring gear. Then put the headers on with Remflex gaskets. The K-frame lifted neatly into place, but it's VERY close to the right front corner of the Milodon pan (about 1/8") since my engine is offset a fraction of an inch more than stock to the passenger side (for better header clearance). I think I'll take just a little bit off the lip of the K-frame with the Sawzall.  Even so, it might be interesting trying to pull the engine without dropping the K, scattershield, centerlink or pan though... The good part is that the headers (Hedman B-body 78030 1-3/4" underchassis) clear the manual steering box nicely. Tomorrow when it's not 94 degrees I will put the torsion bars, steering column and PS-manual coupler in. From looking at it the outer jacket on the column may need to be shortened a bit more (I didn't cut it back all the way to the firewall). Not sure yet if the Flaming River U-joint is the same diameter as the pot-joint that originally occupied that space - I may need to dimple one tube just a bit more.
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1234515
05/26/12 11:49 PM
05/26/12 11:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,886
Bowling Green KY / Nashville, ...
300by500
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,886
Bowling Green KY / Nashville, ...
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Quote:
Hope you enjoy changing those spark plugs
BBs don't belong in a-bodys, been there done that
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking... and I have a NICE, fresh 11:1 498 RB (about 575HP,610TQ) sitting on the stand next to my '69 Barracuda fastback.
Anyone wanna swap my RB stroker for their stout 416, or a B-body for my Barracuda?
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1234516
05/26/12 11:54 PM
05/26/12 11:54 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
DrCharles
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
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Quote:
Hope you enjoy changing those spark plugs
I've done this swap three times... first 383 had Hooker fenderwell headers, so plug access wasn't too bad. I then put a 440 & 6-71 with the same headers and it was somewhat tighter. Last one was the 383 with A-body manifolds and I can't say plug changes were fun on that one either!
This setup is going to need a hole in the right inner fender for #6 plug access. It's just too hard to get at from any other angle!
Quote:
BBs don't belong in a-bodys, been there done that
They may not belong, but I am going to [Capt.Picard]"Make It So"[/Picard]
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Re: Too tight a fit... 451 A-body rant
[Re: DrCharles]
#1234517
05/27/12 12:15 AM
05/27/12 12:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,518
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,518
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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I've owned a 383 Dart for 34 years, it takes me about half and hour to change the plugs. Most of them are done underneath, piece of cake! When I had those same Hedman Hedders on one of my 383 Darts it took about 2 hours... 
Last edited by Rhinodart; 05/27/12 12:16 AM.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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