Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 8 of 10 1 2 6 7 8 9 10
Re: ALTERKATION HATED BY MOPAR ACTION?? [Re: cudaboone] #1228765
05/11/12 01:07 AM
05/11/12 01:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
R
Rick_Ehrenberg Offline
top fuel
Rick_Ehrenberg  Offline
top fuel
R

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
I don't hate it either...that's why the original title of this post got me "going". As you said, it has its place (drag racing). But I do stand 100% behind what I wrote in the mag (and copied above).

Rick

Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: TC@HP2] #1228766
05/11/12 01:13 AM
05/11/12 01:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
R
Rick_Ehrenberg Offline
top fuel
Rick_Ehrenberg  Offline
top fuel
R

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
Quote:


What I just don't get in the mopar world is how so many people think its blastphamy to change ANYTHING on a mopar

I'm mostly a Chevy guy..... This is my first mopar....

The mopar guys (not all of them) just seem to want to fight against anything but stock..... Just for it being something other than stock.... And you can't convince them otherwise no matter what you say or do.... If its not original it's crap...... Its just a different attitude in the Chevy world





I can't speak for others, but I've been modding Mopars for almost 50 years. But why change something for the sake of change? Sure, Chevy guys need to change everything -- look what they are starting with: Perimeter frames, 2-speed automatics, C-clip axles that fail regularly, etc. Mopar guys are just starting from a higher "place" -- less needs to be changed!

Rick

Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: Rick_Ehrenberg] #1228767
05/11/12 01:18 AM
05/11/12 01:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
DARTH V8Я Offline
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
DARTH V8Я  Offline
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
Not all old Chevies have perimeter frames...


When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: Rick_Ehrenberg] #1228768
05/11/12 01:22 AM
05/11/12 01:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,408
Kalispell Mt.
H
HotRodDave Offline
I Live Here
HotRodDave  Offline
I Live Here
H

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,408
Kalispell Mt.
Great points e-berg

We also got .904 lifters and shaft rockers right from the get go.

Torsion bars are cool too because you can easily adjust them when you swap aluminum heads and intake onto your ride and want to keep the height the same.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: HotRodDave] #1228769
05/11/12 02:30 AM
05/11/12 02:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline
Striving for excellence

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
I'm a cornering guy. If a loss of 40 lbs changes your ride height that much, your torsion bars are too small!

Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: Rick_Ehrenberg] #1228770
05/11/12 06:10 AM
05/11/12 06:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline
Swears too much
Pale_Roader  Offline
Swears too much

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Quote:

Quote:

The original Mopar suspension design is very good. So good, that 50 years later it still works just fine at 150 mph on any road race course. <snip!>

For a 200 mph car you would need to make some fairly significant changes.




Hmmm. I spoke to Lee Sicilio, who went 237 MPH (2-way average) with his original '69 Daytona about 10 years ago. I asked him what he did to the suspension. He said "all stock". I said, "You mean you kept stock geometry, just added bigger bars, shocks, bushings, yada...?". He said "No, stock". I said: "So, you just freshened it all up?" He made me feel stupid, reiterating: "It is all stock. original. Untouched. I'm the original owner".

I have the original SAE papers on these suspension designs. Geometry-wise, and in on-road performance, They were, literally, light-years ahead of the competition. Only in cost and NVH did they fall short.

Rick




Maybe i'm not even the only one here, but i've always loved that about Mopars... the NVH factor. In fact, over all the other issues i started with playing with cars (most ov my first 10 cars were GM A-bodies), that made me hate GM... it was my very first ride in a 73 Rallye Challenger that nailed the GM coffin door shut for me... That thing just felt like a race car to me. Even after doing all the big suspension upgrades to my 70 Skylark, the full GS/SS/GTO type package... it still felt like a baby buggy to me.

Long live Mopar's NVH "problem"!!! Hahaha

Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: AndyF] #1228771
05/11/12 06:16 AM
05/11/12 06:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline
Swears too much
Pale_Roader  Offline
Swears too much

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Quote:


But, if you're willing to live with the limitations of the factory ride height and steering box, and you can build headers that clear the torsion bars, then the factory suspension design works just fine up past 150 mph road racing.

For a 200 mph car you would need to make some fairly significant changes.




Just curious... what changes at 200 that makes the 150-spec car unsafe?

The last post brought to mind this old Hotrod magazine car... a 68 Charger with a 440 and (i believe) stock-type suspension (upgraded rates and such i'm sure) that went 190mph...

It was all black, had stock-car meanies for rollers and this hideous grill-opening dam for aero.

Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: OzHemi] #1228772
05/11/12 10:25 AM
05/11/12 10:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
I Live Here
patrick  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
Quote:

So the car has an injected, stroker Hemi, cage, etc,etc and..

Quote:

It is all stock. original. Untouched




With 40+ year old suspension bushings, tie rod ends, etc, etc..


Ok....




yeah, I'll call shenanigans on that....


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: Rick_Ehrenberg] #1228773
05/11/12 11:00 AM
05/11/12 11:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
D
DPelletier Offline
I Live Here
DPelletier  Offline
I Live Here
D

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
Quote:

But why change something for the sake of change? Sure, Chevy guys need to change everything -- look what they are starting with: Perimeter frames, 2-speed automatics, C-clip axles that fail regularly, etc. Mopar guys are just starting from a higher "place" -- less needs to be changed!

Rick




...and for those of us pulling less than 1G on cruise night and keeping it under 150mph on the way to dinner, most of it doesn't need to be changed at all!

Unlike Rick, I haven't been into Mopars for 50 years; I was a died-in-the-wool GM guy having owned Chevelles, Impala's, several Cutlass and 442's, Z/28's, etc. etc....and I'm still not a "Mopar or No Car" guy; I appreciate ALL Musclecars. HOWEVER, the more I tore into my Superbee, the more impressed I was with the engineering involved. Ultimately I've come to the conclusion that (especially from a mechanical and functional design standpoint) that my 'Bee is a better designed car than my GM A bodies were.

The unibody is lighter and stiffer, the suspension is superior, the brakes are better, the tranny and rear end are stronger and the base motors are more powerful. GM did well (comparatively) on fit and finish and aesthetic items but it feels a bit like a really nice dress on a plain looking woman to me.

I don't hate GM stuff; I'd still love to get a '71-'72 Trans Am and I'd really like my old '70 W30 back but I still believe the above observations to be true.





Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: DPelletier] #1228774
05/11/12 11:24 AM
05/11/12 11:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,976
Chilliwack B.C. Canada
R
RUNCHARGER Offline
I Live Here
RUNCHARGER  Offline
I Live Here
R

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,976
Chilliwack B.C. Canada
See, thats the thing. The reason I love Mopars is the great engineering that went into them in the day. T-bars are just one of the great pieces in them. Perhaps that's why I'm not crazy about modified ones that cut the unique bits out. If you modify a Camaro or Mustang you are improving it and it came with the inferior coil springs from the factory anyway. When you chop the T-bars out of a Mopar you've took away it's heritage and superior engineering, you might as well cut up a Yugo instead.
As far as Mopar Action being in the past, I don't find that to be true at all. It's the only magazine I buy, but when I quit buying it, it will because the articles on Red E-bodies with modified new "Hemis" and coil suspension overpower the interesting tech articles, it's getting pretty close right now. I bet they've got another two red E-body's with 5.7's lined up right now for the next issue. They're just like the red Camaros that Car Craft used to run.

Sheldon

Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: DPelletier] #1228775
05/11/12 11:25 AM
05/11/12 11:25 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
DARTH V8Я Offline
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
DARTH V8Я  Offline
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
So how to you guys feels about the leafsprings vs 3/4-link for handling? I was in a friends 71 Monte Carlo (stock sus) and that thing outhandled my 74 roadrunner (stock sus) something fierce!


When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: DARTH V8Я] #1228776
05/11/12 12:01 PM
05/11/12 12:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
D
DPelletier Offline
I Live Here
DPelletier  Offline
I Live Here
D

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
Quote:

So how to you guys feels about the leafsprings vs 3/4-link for handling? I was in a friends 71 Monte Carlo (stock sus) and that thing outhandled my 74 roadrunner (stock sus) something fierce!




My '70 W30 was the best handling GM A body I have ever driven and truthfully, it was pretty good. I'd give it points for steering feel with it's quick ratio box and the rear swaybar helped things in the handling department, I ran it with radials (Goodyear Eagle ST's) and decent gas shocks.

I think my Superbee suspension is better, simpler and stiffer. Car handles as well or better IMO, though the steering feel isn't as good. I could have gone with a Firm Feel box or something similar, but I wanted the car to feel like it did back in the day.

Leaf sprung GM's like Novas and Camaro's used springs that were WAY to light IMO and wheel hop was a huge problem....I guess that's why slapper/traction bars became such a hot item.

Another example; the 'Bee came with 15" wheels and the W30 had 14's. I don't recall the brake sizes but if memory serves, there was a significant difference there too.



Dave

Last edited by DPelletier; 05/11/12 12:03 PM.

1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: DPelletier] #1228777
05/11/12 06:00 PM
05/11/12 06:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 115
Manteca, CA
DRJDVM Offline
member
DRJDVM  Offline
member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 115
Manteca, CA
Everyone has their opinions...... To each their own

But you mopar guys seem to live in your own little corner of the universe

My last comment...... Rare doesn't always mean cool.... There's a reason mopars are rare and didn't "flood the market like camaros and mustangs"....... No one wanted them!!! Sometimes there's a reason things are rare.....

There are some cool ass mopars no doubt..... But damn you mopar guys think ALL mopars are the "cat's meow"

It's all good...... We can agree to disagree..... Have a good weekend guy.... Drive em like you stole em!!!!

Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: DRJDVM] #1228778
05/11/12 07:23 PM
05/11/12 07:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda Offline
About to go away
Supercuda  Offline
About to go away

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Quote:

Everyone has their opinions...... To each their own

But you mopar guys seem to live in your own little corner of the universe

My last comment...... Rare doesn't always mean cool.... There's a reason mopars are rare and didn't "flood the market like camaros and mustangs"....... No one wanted them!!! Sometimes there's a reason things are rare.....

There are some cool ass mopars no doubt..... But damn you mopar guys think ALL mopars are the "cat's meow"

It's all good...... We can agree to disagree..... Have a good weekend guy.... Drive em like you stole em!!!!




The opinion of someone with a crapmaro in their avatar is always suspect.

Guess your trying to make a statement, what it might be I dunno, but what it says to me is lemming.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: DRJDVM] #1228779
05/12/12 12:21 AM
05/12/12 12:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline
Striving for excellence

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Quote:



My last comment...... Rare doesn't always mean cool... No one wanted them!!! Sometimes there's a reason things are rare.....

There are some cool ass mopars no doubt..... But damn you mopar guys think ALL mopars are the "cat's meow"





THIS guy is an assclown troll.
Go away and drive your Camaro into the sunset. THIS is a Mopar site. What other sort of bias would you expect here? I would be equally stupid to go to www.bellybuttoncamaro.com and say.."You dang Chevy guys think that ALL Chevys are the cats meow!

Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: HotRodDave] #1228780
05/12/12 01:37 AM
05/12/12 01:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880
-
R
RSNOMO Offline
Moparts Torchbearer
RSNOMO  Offline
Moparts Torchbearer
R

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880
-
'The average guy can't afford to buy a mopar and chop it up but any hillbilly out there can find, buy and afford to chop up a stupid camaro, nova or rustang.'

Dave, I don't agree on your stand regarding ethanol, but this right here...

This is a classic...LMAO...

Some of the horse-dump this thread has generated has got me on the floor...

Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: Rick_Ehrenberg] #1228781
05/12/12 10:56 AM
05/12/12 10:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,385
Pikes Peak Country
T
TC@HP2 Offline
master
TC@HP2  Offline
master
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,385
Pikes Peak Country
Quote:

Mopar guys are just starting from a higher "place" -- less needs to be changed!

Rick




Thanks for stating that so simply. When I was racing chevys we had to do the Guldstrand mod, heavily modify the upper control arm mount, use taller spindles, jack around with bump measurements, and install weight jacks before we could get them to perform right. With a mopar all we needed to do was swap t-bars and offset upper arm bushings, and tweak the bump.

Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: TC@HP2] #1228782
05/12/12 11:27 AM
05/12/12 11:27 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
DARTH V8Я Offline
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!
DARTH V8Я  Offline
Oh No!! I just had a moron attack!

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,154
Its a TRAP!
Really? I found bump/roll steer on a Chrysler to be much worse then Chevrolet, but better then Ford.


When it takes more than a sweet mullet to prove you rule at the trailer park..
Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: DARTH V8Я] #1228783
05/12/12 12:15 PM
05/12/12 12:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,976
Chilliwack B.C. Canada
R
RUNCHARGER Offline
I Live Here
RUNCHARGER  Offline
I Live Here
R

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,976
Chilliwack B.C. Canada
"Thanks for stating that so simply. When I was racing chevys we had to do the Guldstrand mod, heavily modify the upper control arm mount, use taller spindles, jack around with bump measurements, and install weight jacks before we could get them to perform right. With a mopar all we needed to do was swap t-bars and offset upper arm bushings, and tweak the bump. "

Uh oh. Don't cloud a Moparts thread with factual info of what you actually had to do to race a car.

Sheldon

Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption [Re: RUNCHARGER] #1228784
05/12/12 12:45 PM
05/12/12 12:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,385
Pikes Peak Country
T
TC@HP2 Offline
master
TC@HP2  Offline
master
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,385
Pikes Peak Country
Quote:

Really? I found bump/roll steer on a Chrysler to be much worse then Chevrolet, but better then Ford.




Yeah, the chevys were the worst of the bunch with my cars. I ran ran two different mopars- both 71s, three different chevys and two different Fords. Fords were on par with the mopars, but the strut rod suspension of both tended to bump worse at further points of travel compared to the chevys, but that was out of the usable range I needed so I didn't worry about it. The chevys were 1st and 2nd gen Camaros and a third gen Nova. The first gen Camaro was the obsolute worst of the bunch with a bad camber curve plus all the other GM ailements.

Quote:

Uh oh. Don't cloud a Moparts thread with factual info of what you actually had to do to race a car.

Sheldon




I know, I shouldn't go there, but sometimes its hard to resist.

Page 8 of 10 1 2 6 7 8 9 10






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1