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Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. #1203472
03/25/12 09:31 PM
03/25/12 09:31 PM
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As many know I'm doing a hemi swap in my 68 Dart. On 12 Mar I decided to pull the trigger on some goodies for the build so I called up Dave Webber at Moder Muscle Performance Group ordered a set of his ported 6.1 heads with 625 springs, retainers, and guides, custom cam, forged drop in pistons with new rings, cometic head gasket, new rod bolts, etc. I also made a phone call to my friend AJ Hemituner and bought a complete 6.1 engine. He wanted to send it to me assembled but I wanted it un-assembled so I could put the goodies on it from MMP. After seeing a smoking deal on a used KB I scooped it right up and now had all the parts in place within 10 days from nothing to everything. That's a very remarkable turn around time on this.

Next I called up my buddy Jeff (Popeye's Hemi) and asked for his assistance to assemble this mountain of parts. Jeff arrived Friday night grabbed so beers went to the shop and the labor began. We both were unsure as to what to gap the new rings at so i called very intelligent individuals in the know and they gave what they would gap them for my build. So after a lot of reading and talking on the phone we decided on the top and second gaps along with the bottom rings. We purchased a hand wheel to gap the rings to our specs. If you've never gaped a ring it takes a long time to measure each cylinder gap the ring put in back in the cyl, measure again, grind a little, put it back, you get the point... very time consuming. After 3-4 hours we were complete and are very satisfied with our work.

Time of assembly... We were smart enough to mark each rod and cap by a number and the direction it was facing before disassemble. This made a assembly easy and had two check points (our marks and the pistons had larger valve reliefs with obviously go on the top of each cyl). We used a crappy ring compressor that we fought a few pistons with but other than that they all went in with out a hitch. Something we did was to rotate the crank with the crank journals down so when we installed the piston a rod it couldn't reach it a smack it possible causing damage to it or the rod. We used this same level of attention to detail throughout this entire build. Every Bolt was spec and torqued, all new gaskets, assembly lube, etc.

I wanted to thank Scott 1fst4dr as I asked a lot of question and we shipped parts back and forth within a few days.. He's top notch in my book. Also Dave Webber and AJ for putting up with the numerous phone calls and obviously the bad ass parts to make this all happen. Jeff for the time you took to help me out ..very cool ( love the sound of the 300 BTW) SICK!

Next week I will put it in place mate it to the tranny, plug it in, and start on the custom headers. I'm hoping to get it to AJ for tuning a week prior to 27 Apr. Still a lot of work to be done but it should start moving fast now. Here are some pics of this weekend. These pic are not in order.. I think I got Jeff in one acting like he's doing something but still managing to pose! Go figure!


























Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: W9 Dart] #1203473
03/25/12 10:18 PM
03/25/12 10:18 PM
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Charleston
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sixpackgut Offline
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are they stock rods? will the oil pan fit in your car? looks nice


Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: sixpackgut] #1203474
03/25/12 10:20 PM
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Quote:

are they stock rods? will the oil pan fit in your car? looks nice




Yes stock rods.. thats why I went from 14 to 10 lbs of boost.. I have a tubular K frame so yes the pan will fit.

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: sixpackgut] #1203475
03/25/12 10:23 PM
03/25/12 10:23 PM
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Missouri U.S.A.
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Is that a Jeep oil pan? Looks awesome.


392 gen III hemi on E-85 727 trans Dana 60
10.02@134
Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: 71yelladustr] #1203476
03/25/12 11:11 PM
03/25/12 11:11 PM
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GO BUCKS !!!!!!!
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340RICK Offline
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nice u guys are speedy

thanks for sharing the pics

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: 340RICK] #1203477
03/25/12 11:24 PM
03/25/12 11:24 PM
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Charleston
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how much boost can the supercharger make?


Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: sixpackgut] #1203478
03/25/12 11:36 PM
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My buddy using the same kb was running 21 lbs running 9.50 in his 08 challenger 4400 lbs. I'm dialing it back to 10 lbs for now.

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: W9 Dart] #1203479
03/25/12 11:50 PM
03/25/12 11:50 PM
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houston texas
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gremlinsteve Offline
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which cam are you running


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Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: gremlinsteve] #1203480
03/26/12 12:05 AM
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Quote:

which cam are you running




Custom grind. 230s at 600ish lift

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: W9 Dart] #1203481
03/26/12 03:29 AM
03/26/12 03:29 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Quote:

My buddy using the same kb was running 21 lbs running 9.50 in his 08 challenger 4400 lbs. I'm dialing it back to 10 lbs for now.


How much power are you wanting to make? Is this a street and strip or a race motor only? What is available for adjustable valve train on those motors now? I know nothing about Gen 3 Hemi


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: Cab_Burge] #1203482
03/26/12 03:55 AM
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goldmember Offline
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You added forged pistons and left the PM rods? That would worry me. Hope it works out well for you.

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: Cab_Burge] #1203483
03/26/12 08:55 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

My buddy using the same kb was running 21 lbs running 9.50 in his 08 challenger 4400 lbs. I'm dialing it back to 10 lbs for now.


How much power are you wanting to make? Is this a street and strip or a race motor only? What is available for adjustable valve train on those motors now? I know nothing about Gen 3 Hemi




The valve train is a hyd non adj. This will be a street/strip car.

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: goldmember] #1203484
03/26/12 08:57 AM
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Quote:

You added forged pistons and left the PM rods? That would worry me. Hope it works out well for you.




People have been doing this same combo for a while now.. not ground breaking stuff here. As long as I keep the boost under 12 I will be fine. I only know of one person her has actually even broke a rod and it was b/c of det. I also have upgraded 6.4 bolts

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: W9 Dart] #1203485
03/26/12 10:21 AM
03/26/12 10:21 AM
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I broke a rod in an N/A application and it wasn't due to detonation. Took the block out. Also, when a Powdered Metal rod breaks, it splinters into millions of pieces that will get sucked thru your motor. Save yourself some future destruction & put a set of H-Beams in there.

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: STEFF] #1203486
03/26/12 12:12 PM
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Quote:

I broke a rod in an N/A application and it wasn't due to detonation. Took the block out. Also, when a Powdered Metal rod breaks, it splinters into millions of pieces that will get sucked thru your motor. Save yourself some future destruction & put a set of H-Beams in there.




Thx STEFF, but it's together and going in as is.. I've been running these engines for about 6 yrs now and it's a rare occassion to hear that a rod broke.. 5.7 and 6.1 rods are different btw.

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: W9 Dart] #1203487
03/26/12 12:41 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

I broke a rod in an N/A application and it wasn't due to detonation. Took the block out. Also, when a Powdered Metal rod breaks, it splinters into millions of pieces that will get sucked thru your motor. Save yourself some future destruction & put a set of H-Beams in there.




Thx STEFF, but it's together and going in as is.. I've been running these engines for about 6 yrs now and it's a rare occassion to hear that a rod broke.. 5.7 and 6.1 rods are different btw.




I broke a 6.1 rod

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: STEFF] #1203488
03/26/12 01:03 PM
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Balmar what do you think the cause of the broken rod was?

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: W9 Dart] #1203489
03/26/12 01:59 PM
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so your using a 4032 mahle piston and a stock rod. for the money being spent i would think that a h beam would be warranted. since a balance job was needed anyways.

i would be worried about that piston just as much as that rod.since there is a track history of em breaking up too. but what do i know
right jason


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Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: gremlinsteve] #1203490
03/26/12 02:10 PM
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Quote:

so your using a 4032 mahle piston and a stock rod. for the money being spent i would think that a h beam would be warranted. since a balance job was needed anyways.

i would be worried about that piston just as much as that rod.since there is a track history of em breaking up too. but what do i know
right jason




I'm not sure what you know Steve...lol You and I both know that with 10 lbs these rods will be fine. We can all agree that RPM's kill rods no hp right? I upgraded the bolts and used a better that stock Mahle piston with the top ring moved down a bit to help.. most people run 8 lbs on a stock set up. These Pistons and rods have been used on several Nitrous and boosted applications that far exceed anything I'd do with them.. this motor will come put next yr and be built to run a larger amount of boost but for now it's staying as is..

Glad to see ur still around Steve, and obviously doing ur homework on who I am

Also Steve you might want to do a little more homework b/c these piston don't require the assembly to be rebalanced
http://www.lxforums.com/board/f364/group-buy-forged-6-1l-stock-pistons-276830/

Last edited by W9 Dart; 03/26/12 02:13 PM.
Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: W9 Dart] #1203491
03/26/12 03:24 PM
03/26/12 03:24 PM
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Not sure how you can change a piston and not need to balance the rotating assembly unless the replacement piston is the exact same weight of the pistons that were balanced into the crank originally. Please enlighten me, I would like to learn?


Jim

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: Bigcube] #1203492
03/26/12 05:23 PM
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Quote:

Not sure how you can change a piston and not need to balance the rotating assembly unless the replacement piston is the exact same weight of the pistons that were balanced into the crank originally. Please enlighten me, I would like to learn?




That is exactly what the deal is.. these pistons were designed by DAve Webber who made them the exact weight of the stock pistons.

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: W9 Dart] #1203493
03/26/12 06:28 PM
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Quote:

Balmar what do you think the cause of the broken rod was?




Stock parts in an abusive environment. It wasnt the bolts that let Loose as the big end was still attached to the crank. The motor let go at 6000 rpm. No sign of valve float.

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: STEFF] #1203494
03/26/12 07:15 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Balmar what do you think the cause of the broken rod was?




Stock parts in an abusive environment. It wasnt the bolts that let Loose as the big end was still attached to the crank. The motor let go at 6000 rpm. No sign of valve float.




Still strange... stock parts letting go at 6000 rpms.. not a common occurrence.

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: goldmember] #1203495
03/26/12 08:41 PM
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LONG ISLAND
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i believe the 6.1 comes w forged pistons and rods.

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: fishy340] #1203496
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Quote:

i believe the 6.1 comes w forged pistons and rods.




no the 6.1 is only a forged crank, the pistons are not great for anything other than N/A and the rods are powdered.

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: W9 Dart] #1203497
03/27/12 01:43 PM
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Hot Rod Ridge
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Nice build!
I run 6psi with a procharger. These new hemis are pretty fun.
Good luck with the build, 10psi with that cam is alot more air then 10psi stock.
You need to post some vids of that beast in your hot rod running. It's going to be wild

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: FastmOp] #1203498
03/29/12 12:14 PM
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I approve of this build.


My Build thread: Let the hemi swap begin!

1968 wanna be pro touring whatchamacallit with some fancy stuff and a new roof skin.
Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: AlexP] #1203499
03/30/12 10:21 PM
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Did a little more work on the Dart today.. I received the transmission yesterday and decided to get the motor and tranny in the car today. I got the car on the lift put the motor in and the truck oil pan I'm using hits the rack and pinion steering. So I cut the pan and was able to make a template to weld in place tomorrow to clear the rack while still having clearance for the pic up tube. Everything seems to be fitting in place pretty well so far. It looks like I might need to either adjust the rear coil overs up 1" and possibly get 150 spring vs the 130 I currently have. I ordered all my Auto meter gauges today as well.. the custom dash made it's way here yesterday and that will be going in soon as the gauges get in and we finish up the 8.50 cage. We almost finished up the entire fuel system from the cell /pump/hoses/controller/fittings/and reg. We are waiting on the motor to be set exactly so we can run the hoses to the rails. Here is a little porn for you guys to look at in the mean time.








Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: W9 Dart] #1203500
03/31/12 02:15 AM
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is that the same car that was at lee's place for a while

if so it has changed alot. nice looking car now


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Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: gremlinsteve] #1203501
03/31/12 09:19 AM
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ohio
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engine looks great.. so does the dart,.. what trans and diff and gear u going to run

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: gremlinsteve] #1203502
03/31/12 09:20 AM
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No that was a barracuda

Re: Take a look at my forged 6.1 hemi build. [Re: W9 Dart] #1203503
03/31/12 07:49 PM
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Wow long day.. Had a lot of trouble with the clearance of the oil pan pick up tube and the steering rack but I finally got it. I was also able to get the Kenne Bell in place, but it needs to be modified as well.. it barely touches the firewall so I have tow options; cut the firewall and notch it or notch the s/c.. I made the decision to notch the s/c. I'm not liking the stance of the car so I think I'm going with 175 springs for the rear vise my 130's... and my fronts are 400's and I think I need 350 or 375.. Here are some pics I took of the work today and I got some of the rear and the fuel stuff (still needs work done).. oh and I got the headliner in too...
















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