|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: NV69B7RR]
#1190292
03/03/12 03:14 PM
03/03/12 03:14 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
Striving for excellence
|
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
|
Mopar Actions guys claimed that the thicker C body 11/16" units were stronger at resisting flex and deflection. I'll bet that they would also agree that this stuff may be overkill for a drag car or one that isn't going to be driven hard in the corners.
Last edited by Frankenduster; 03/05/12 04:10 AM.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: NV69B7RR]
#1190294
03/03/12 03:38 PM
03/03/12 03:38 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
|
Being larger, then tend to be stiffer which will translate to more precise steering response. Provided everything else is up to par; ie suspension joints, steering box, steering box mount etc.
IMO, they were a justifiable mod when using the stock style,split sleeve adjusters. Using a newer solid sleeve adjuster, they are overkill, even for a handling application. The 9/16 tie rods with a solid sleeve are capable of supporting somthing in the range of up to 6G worth of loading before failure. This is way more than any stock based suspension could ever deliver, so why add the extra weight of the 11/16 version.
However, they are a popular upgrade.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: Mattax]
#1190297
03/03/12 05:22 PM
03/03/12 05:22 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
|
Judging by the pictures ive seen of them side by side, the actual ball joint itself and its housing isnt any bigger between the two.
Mopar to the bone!!!
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: NV69B7RR]
#1190298
03/03/12 11:54 PM
03/03/12 11:54 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
|
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
|
Over the past decade? I've asked this question many times, and have yet to get a definite answer, other then an 11/16" is stronger the a 9/16", a 3/4" TR is stronger then 11/16", a 7/8" stronger....... But never to what purpose other then peace of mind, your world stops if one breaks, and so on. Those that give glowing reviews to this upgrade, always seem to also mention they also at the same time reset the alignment, added new shocks, changed TB's, moved the battery to the trunk, but by golly the 11/16" TR are the hot ticket. Nobody has yet said how much flex is possibly involved. When I get home Sunday, I'll try to calculate how much constant arc flex must occur in say a typical 9/16" x 12"? TR assembly to give a whopping 1/16" toe variation. I'm going to take a wild first guess and say the assembly would have to bow 3/8" off center to give a 1/16" decrease in toe from a compression force. I don't think the forces exist, short of a four story building, to stretch in tension the assembly 1/16". I suspect the "weak" link of the TR assembly is the force path thru the curved TR casting, and the reactions there would be the original source for flexing. Heim joints don't have that problem, but they are usually a single shear design, and far from ideal. However I have serious doubts if it is indeed a real issue in the first place. I don't expect we are referring here in "corners" to poorly maintained, or simply worn out TR assemblies and the comparable lifespan of such between 9/16 and 11/16. This topic is just another flavor of the month, IMO, behind LCA reinforcements, adding rear discs on non track driven cars, back braces on 8.75, rear sway bars, .....but I digress 
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: jcc]
#1190299
03/04/12 01:01 AM
03/04/12 01:01 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
|
Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
|
I always thought it was done for the larger sleeve. Going thicker on the rod itself won't make much of a difference. By the time you bend a tie rod other stuff will be destroyed.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: ahy]
#1190301
03/04/12 08:25 AM
03/04/12 08:25 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
|
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
|
Quote:
I did the upgrade... and no I don't have any meaningful before and after because I changed several things at once. There is another way to look at it though... Chrysler made the upgrade to the heavier tie rods on heavier cars for a reason.
When you put big sticky tires on lighter B's, E's and A's and drive them hard, the steering loads will increase. Upgrades Chrysler made for the heavier cars may be "just right".
A heavier car, heavier truck, is one thing, and I agree many suspension mods are intended to generate higher CORNERING loads, but I have yet to see a strong case made that the STEERING loads increase. We seldom make our cars heavier, actually in "corners" lighter is the preferred goal.
For additional background, review my diatribe in a similar vein over on the welded k members pic thread.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: jcc]
#1190302
03/04/12 10:26 AM
03/04/12 10:26 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,323
NY NY
340duster340
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,323
NY NY
|
What did the trans-am and NASCAR guys run bak in the day?
1966 Dart GT
...down to only 1 mopar for the first time in 15 years!
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: jcc]
#1190305
03/04/12 09:38 PM
03/04/12 09:38 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
|
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
|
repeat by mistake
Last edited by jcc; 03/05/12 12:32 PM.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: jcc]
#1190306
03/04/12 09:50 PM
03/04/12 09:50 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
|
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
|
Quote:
When I get home Sunday, I'll try to calculate how much constant arc flex must occur in say a typical 9/16" x 12"? TR assembly to give a whopping 1/16" toe variation.
Hope nobody panics, I left the calculator in the drawer, for a few reasons.
Because first there are a few assumptions, TR assembly per side is approx 12" long, the attached steering arm has a lever arm from the ball joint of approx 6", and the "typical" tire is say 26" dia, which means any change in TR assembly length has a 2+ multiplier effect at the point of measured toe. Additionally in my own mind I am not certain as to whether under normal cornering, is one TR assembly under compression and the other under tension or both compression or both tension? Assuming worse case of both under compression, early numbers indicate for a toe total change of 1/16", would require nearly a 1/4" bow in the TR assembly both sides. I can't see that happening. I also don't have a large library/data/real world experience to compare that 1/16" toe change worse case scenario to normal bump steer variations. These TR assemblies are not just flopping around, and would only bow under very high loads.
And at a bit of a stretch, read the this link, I think it has some merit, and easily also explains well, IMO, why caster increases steering effort, with all its benefits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_rudder
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: NV69B7RR]
#1190308
03/05/12 01:18 AM
03/05/12 01:18 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
Rick_Ehrenberg
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
|
As I recall the math, it came out 22% less defection.
I wouldn't change TRE's (and sleeves) that are OK, but if you need to change 'em anyway...
You can also weld the slots in the smaller sleeves.
On the opposite end of the scale are the solid 11/16" ID sleeves w/ jam nuts (FFI, etc.)
Rick
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1190311
03/05/12 11:12 AM
03/05/12 11:12 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
|
Quote:
What did the trans-am and NASCAR guys run bak in the day?
Herein lies some of the problem; These two venues were considered contact sports, therefore increasingly heavy duty parts became required to allow the cars to finish races. Since these were the most practical handling applications of the era, many assume duplicating their configurations are the best means of skinning the cat these days and similarly install heavy duty parts where they may not necessarily be required. Nascar guys also use 3/4 and 1 ton full floater truck rear ends with oil coolers. That's probably overkill for a street app as well.
Quote:
It may have been in one of the above posts, but here goes: Are the C body tie rod ends the same size as the A, B and E cars? If not, I guess to use the 11/16" units, you'd need 2 inners, 2 outers along with the sleeves? Is the taper in the center link and lower ball joints are the same degree as the other cars?
Same size in what regard? The threaded shank on small units standard tie rods is 9/16, the large C body units are 11/16. So yes, to covnert you need two inners, two outers, and two adjusting sleeves. The taper fit is identical betwen the two sizes.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: jcc]
#1190312
03/05/12 01:25 PM
03/05/12 01:25 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,451
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,451
So Cal
|
Quote:
Quote:
What did the trans-am and NASCAR guys run bak in the day?
Nascar back in the day in a 4,000lb? cars at 200mph on a 31Deg banking for 500 miles in wheel to wheel competition with a 100,000 spectators behind a fence 20? feet away ran I believe 3/4" TR
Those car were 4200 lbs. And ran 200 mph for 500-600 miles. Had to take hits and rubs against other cars and objects. On top of that, a lot of the stuff was overbuilt.
The tie rods were massive. Do not copy these. It makes no sense to.
Tie rod was pn 2535126 Rt, and 2535127 Lt. Stock Rt tube 9 3/4" (not pictured) was 2535130. You probably could cross reference those p/n's. I'm sure off of some big commercial truck.
The tube pictured below is probably fabricated Petty Engineering tube.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1190313
03/05/12 08:28 PM
03/05/12 08:28 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
|
About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
|
At some point, we get to the weakest link. Since the tie rod's tapered stud still has to fit into the steering arms and centerlink, at what point does that become the failure point? Did the NASCAR boys run stock centerlinks and steering arms? Or where they upgraded to fit the possibly larger tapered stud on the HD parts?
I dunno
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: Supercuda]
#1190315
03/06/12 12:31 AM
03/06/12 12:31 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,030
Wisconsin
Aero426
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,030
Wisconsin
|
Quote:
Did the NASCAR boys run stock centerlinks and steering arms? Or where they upgraded to fit the possibly larger tapered stud on the HD parts?
To my knowledge, the Grand National suspension parts are all special purpose items not related to production.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: Aero426]
#1190316
03/06/12 12:38 AM
03/06/12 12:38 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
|
Im probably gonna get some of these just for insurance against that crack or pothole at 150+.
Mopar to the bone!!!
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: NV69B7RR]
#1190317
03/06/12 02:43 AM
03/06/12 02:43 AM
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
@#$%&*!
New user name, Same old jerk!
|
New user name, Same old jerk!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,131
Thigh-Gap Junction
|
Bigger parts are almost always stronger, if that's needed. When it comes to deflection, actual axial deflections would be microscopic and of no consequence. If the sleeve 'bows out' it's toast because it introduces a bending stress in addition to the compressive stress, greatly increasing the likelyhood of failure. If you want to go for the solid, billet, forged, heat treated, gold plated HD sleeves that's fine but it's long been my contention that the factory sleeves are a designed-in failure point and FAILURE MODE. Imagine you're flying down the road and come upon the pothole from hell and something is going to fail. If you snap off a rod end or stud on the idler or pitman your steering control is mostly or completely gone. Having a weak point made of a ductile material, like the tie rod sleeve is, you're going to get a badly toed-out situation instead of a front wheel doing whatever it wants. 
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: @#$%&*!]
#1190318
03/06/12 06:52 AM
03/06/12 06:52 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
|
Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
|
Quote:
Bigger parts are almost always stronger, if that's needed. When it comes to deflection, actual axial deflections would be microscopic and of no consequence. If the sleeve 'bows out' it's toast because it introduces a bending stress in addition to the compressive stress, greatly increasing the likelyhood of failure.
If you want to go for the solid, billet, forged, heat treated, gold plated HD sleeves that's fine but it's long been my contention that the factory sleeves are a designed-in failure point and FAILURE MODE. Imagine you're flying down the road and come upon the pothole from hell and something is going to fail. If you snap off a rod end or stud on the idler or pitman your steering control is mostly or completely gone. Having a weak point made of a ductile material, like the tie rod sleeve is, you're going to get a badly toed-out situation instead of a front wheel doing whatever it wants.
THIS... i think is a very good point.
As for the 1970 Nascar question. That stuff is always fun to know, and occasionally can still provide some answers to modern questions, but a LOT has changed in 40 years. Consider the Nascar hemi rods they used back then... This was 'serious' stuff! with 1/2" rod bolts... Run the idea ov using 1/2" rod bolts by the Engine Masters guys today and see how long it takes for the laughing to subside...
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1190319
03/06/12 08:56 PM
03/06/12 08:56 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
|
About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
|
I kinda look at the Engine Masters engines as purpose built, short durability win at all costs (limited by what you can afford) efforts. Not sure I'd want to put one in the wife's ride.
That said, the point about the sleeve being a failure point is a good one to consider.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: Supercuda]
#1190320
03/06/12 09:43 PM
03/06/12 09:43 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
|
Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
|
Quote:
I kinda look at the Engine Masters engines as purpose built, short durability win at all costs (limited by what you can afford) efforts. Not sure I'd want to put one in the wife's ride.
That said, the point about the sleeve being a failure point is a good one to consider.
Still, no one, and i mean NO ONE would even consider such a massive connecting rod today. People in the know wont even use 6-pack rods anymore. There is no need. 40 years ago bigger was the only way to mean stronger, now we have better design, better technology, better metals, and have come to realize that while mass is good for strength in engine internals, light weight is worth more in terms ov reliability.
Anyways, this is nothing new to anyone here. Those 3/4" tie rods are insane.
Im still gonna buy the fancy ones, because they come with the full kit, but now theres that small pocket ov worry in the back ov my head...
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: NV69B7RR]
#2242991
01/28/17 08:02 PM
01/28/17 08:02 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
|
About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
|
I seem to remember one of the old Direct Connection chassis books giving some details on the tierods and other suspension parts.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#2244388
01/31/17 12:06 AM
01/31/17 12:06 AM
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 259
n.c.
geo.
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 259
n.c.
|
[quote] Bigger parts are almost always stronger, if that's needed. When it comes to deflection, actual axial deflections would be microscopic and of no consequence. If the sleeve 'bows out' it's toast because it introduces a bending stress in addition to the compressive stress, greatly increasing the likelyhood of failure. If you want to go for the solid, billet, forged, heat treated, gold plated HD sleeves that's fine but it's long been my contention that the factory sleeves are a designed-in failure point and FAILURE MODE. Imagine you're flying down the road and come upon the pothole from hell and something is going to fail. If you snap off a rod end or stud on the idler or pitman your steering control is mostly or completely gone. Having a weak point made of a ductile material, like the tie rod sleeve is, you're going to get a badly toed-out situation instead of a front wheel doing whatever it wants. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Twocents.gif" alt="" /> THIS... i think is a very good point. Know this is an old post, but I agree with this also. Many years ago I read something by Hal Baer along the same lines. He cautioned that boxing the control arms and replacing the tie rod sleeves on a mustang made it much more likely to cause frame damage when bumping a curb, or hitting a pot-hole. Now this was on a ford, so maybe not applicable 
Last edited by geo.; 01/31/17 12:10 AM.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: geo.]
#2244660
01/31/17 01:48 PM
01/31/17 01:48 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
|
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
|
Might add to this ancient, but insightful thread, well respected member "AndyF" noted a measured reduction in deflection(?) with the larger TR's of 22%, however what is not mentioned, 22% of what, because if we are talking on cars with a measured say .125" toe in, +- 1/16", .002" reduction for example, is not something members here will ever need to be concerned with.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#3054950
07/01/22 02:28 PM
07/01/22 02:28 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
|
Kern Dog -- Regarding boxing the LCA, I wonder how much that is truly worth ... the race Posey T/A and Gurney AAR cars do not have them boxed... maybe SCCA TransAm rules never allowed that to be done. I've boxed my LCAs and run the 11/16" tie rods, and have the K-frame all reinforced... can't tell if it has made any difference (running competition pylon autocross, as well as HPDE/HSAX)... I suppose better to have it done vs not done.
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: AndyF]
#3054985
07/01/22 06:04 PM
07/01/22 06:04 PM
|
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,221
nowhere
Sniper
master
|
master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,221
nowhere
|
One other thing to consider, the longer the tie rod assembly the more likely it is to bend. So you up the diameter My 51 has a real short driver's side assembly, about a foot. The pass side is about three feet long  Yeah, bumpsteer is a thing
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: Sniper]
#3055127
07/02/22 06:43 AM
07/02/22 06:43 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,465
Answering the call of the wild
ThermoQuad
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,465
Answering the call of the wild
|
many benefits no deficits to upgrading the larger hardware other than the wallet
Use the solid aftermarket ones.
.
same with boxing the LCAs, aftermarket UCA's, firm feel sway bars/steering, strut rods, etc......................
I spent 22+ yrs running hot laps in high performance driving schools on Thunder Road, this is not autocross, one step less than racing, I had a car that could run with the big dogs if i wanted too. Watkins Glen 2x per yr 2days per event
Do the math
At each and every 2 day event there were always upgrades that significantly lowered my lap times to the pt i was running under the "number" which is 2.5 minutes for a full lap.
I have had a lot of tech support esp at the track.
If anyone want to ask me what works and wants to tune the suspension let alone a six pak please pm me ....I have data not the seat of my pants
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: AndyF]
#3056404
07/05/22 05:18 PM
07/05/22 05:18 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
astjp2
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
|
It is a classic mopar debate. Just like regular or high volume oil pumps. LH wheel studs or regular ones, Dana 60 vs Ford 9 inch, etc. People still question a 9" over a 60?
1941 Taylorcraft
1968 Charger
1994 Wrangler
1998 Wrangler
2008 Kia Rio
2017 Jetta
I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: AndyF]
#3102410
12/14/22 09:57 PM
12/14/22 09:57 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 88
IL
83hurstguy
member
|
member
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 88
IL
|
I always thought the point I made early in this thread was the most valid reason to upgrade and that was cost. I'm not sure if this is still true, but for a long time the C body ends and adjusters were less expensive than the ABE parts. So it was actually cheaper to install the factory 11/16 parts than to replace the stock parts. If they were also stronger then double win. The cheaper reason was still true earlier this year when I bought parts, and it was a pretty noticeable difference. 11/16 parts seemed to make more sense...
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: 83hurstguy]
#3102592
12/15/22 03:57 PM
12/15/22 03:57 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,310
north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
|
"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,310
north of coder
|
i just did a quick rock auto search, and that seems not to be the case any more. i always thought the 11/16 chrysler items were cheaper as well. using moog for my search. chysler tie rod - $15.34, and adjuster sleeve - $14.24 dodge tie rod - $13.78, adjuster sleeve - $11.86 so who knows ?  
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: 83hurstguy]
#3102853
12/16/22 01:27 PM
12/16/22 01:27 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,310
north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
|
"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,310
north of coder
|
i keep forgetting about the pro forge stuff ! i have been very disappointed in moog stuff for many years because of the downgrade in quality. however, i haven't had the need to replace anything on my own car, so my moog experience is strictly by installing moog parts brought to me for installation on other's vehicles.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: moparx]
#3106253
12/29/22 12:42 AM
12/29/22 12:42 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,545
Seattle, WA
375inStroke
Special needs person
|
Special needs person
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,545
Seattle, WA
|
i just did a quick rock auto search, and that seems not to be the case any more. i always thought the 11/16 chrysler items were cheaper as well. using moog for my search. chysler tie rod - $15.34, and adjuster sleeve - $14.24 dodge tie rod - $13.78, adjuster sleeve - $11.86 so who knows ? Strange. I show $30.79 for the Dodge tie rod ends.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: 375inStroke]
#3108231
01/03/23 06:29 PM
01/03/23 06:29 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,663
Wichita
GY3
master
|
master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,663
Wichita
|
i just did a quick rock auto search, and that seems not to be the case any more. i always thought the 11/16 chrysler items were cheaper as well. using moog for my search. chysler tie rod - $15.34, and adjuster sleeve - $14.24 dodge tie rod - $13.78, adjuster sleeve - $11.86 so who knows ? Strange. I show $30.79 for the Dodge tie rod ends. Lots of places price according to zip code, so that may play into it?
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph
Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: 375inStroke]
#3115568
01/23/23 01:19 AM
01/23/23 01:19 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
|
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
|
I guarantee the greatest force on those tie rods is when parallel parking in a tight spot. With a BB , wide tires, and not rolling, wonder if anyone can feel the difference? LOL
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: jcc]
#3130806
03/20/23 12:31 PM
03/20/23 12:31 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
|
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
|
This IMO should not go unshared. I've leave my conclusions out.
Last weekend at Sebring Corvette had a C8 cutaway on display among others. What caught my eye was the unmentioned/unnoted front wheel AWD? drivetrain.
But what I saw in the attached pic to this thread also is pertinent.
So keep in mind, this is a 60 year newer design chassis then our cars, its weight is approx 3600lbs w/o driver, it is an OEM daily street car, potentially over $100K, 670hp, pulls 1.03g on skid pad, has a nearly 50/50 weight balance with driver, tops out stock at 184mph, has a front tire 275/30x20 with electric PS, and appears to use a 1/2-9/16" steering tie rod which I did not measure.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: jcc]
#3130885
03/20/23 03:24 PM
03/20/23 03:24 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,310
north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
|
"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,310
north of coder
|
that does look rather tiny, compared to what one would expect from a vehicle capable of way more handling prowess than our rides. could that be 13, 14, or 15mm thread instead of UNF thread size ? i have always wondered how OEM's decide on, or test for, thread/bolt size per application, as i know about thread strength in shear applications, and always seem to want to go way more/larger than necessary so as to ensure myself the bolt/thread size will not cause problems in the application i am contemplating.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: moparx]
#3130910
03/20/23 05:25 PM
03/20/23 05:25 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
|
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
|
I use 14mm wheel studs, and it was it definitely did not even "look" 14mm (9/16"), but the main point here is that it was not 11/16"
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#3131250
03/21/23 09:17 PM
03/21/23 09:17 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,225
Looking for a way out of Middl...
IMGTX
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 12,225
Looking for a way out of Middl...
|
I see a lot of valid points on these but I have to wonder if Chrysler did it on the big cars, could it just be so they wear less and last longer. Seems like if you are selling an expensive luxury vehicle you don't' want them to wear out too soon. As for the small vette tie rods maybe they were looking at reducing the weight to get better suspension reaction. They obviously did the math so they wouldn't break too easy.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: Sniper]
#3131838
03/24/23 02:43 AM
03/24/23 02:43 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,451
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,451
So Cal
|
The only real wear spot would be the ball and socket, are those any different in size compared to the smaller diameter ones? No. Same ball and socket. The diameter of the solid male threaded part of the 11/16" tie rod is thicker. But IMHO the hollow rolled adjuster with open slot is weaker than the Tie Rods.
|
|
|
Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#3131843
03/24/23 07:08 AM
03/24/23 07:08 AM
|
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,221
nowhere
Sniper
master
|
master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,221
nowhere
|
The only real wear spot would be the ball and socket, are those any different in size compared to the smaller diameter ones? No. Same ball and socket. The diameter of the solid male threaded part of the 11/16" tie rod is thicker. But IMHO the hollow rolled adjuster with open slot is weaker than the Tie Rods. True, I imagine the best bang for your buck would be a solid adjuster rather than up-sizing to 11/16" The adjusters in my 51 Plymouth are a solid tube, not rolled, from the factory.
|
|
|
|
|
