Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: NV69B7RR]
#1190292
03/03/12 03:14 PM
03/03/12 03:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
Striving for excellence
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Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Mopar Actions guys claimed that the thicker C body 11/16" units were stronger at resisting flex and deflection. I'll bet that they would also agree that this stuff may be overkill for a drag car or one that isn't going to be driven hard in the corners.
Last edited by Frankenduster; 03/05/12 04:10 AM.
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Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: NV69B7RR]
#1190294
03/03/12 03:38 PM
03/03/12 03:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387 Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
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Being larger, then tend to be stiffer which will translate to more precise steering response. Provided everything else is up to par; ie suspension joints, steering box, steering box mount etc.
IMO, they were a justifiable mod when using the stock style,split sleeve adjusters. Using a newer solid sleeve adjuster, they are overkill, even for a handling application. The 9/16 tie rods with a solid sleeve are capable of supporting somthing in the range of up to 6G worth of loading before failure. This is way more than any stock based suspension could ever deliver, so why add the extra weight of the 11/16 version.
However, they are a popular upgrade.
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Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: Mattax]
#1190297
03/03/12 05:22 PM
03/03/12 05:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
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master
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Nebraska
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Judging by the pictures ive seen of them side by side, the actual ball joint itself and its housing isnt any bigger between the two.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: NV69B7RR]
#1190298
03/03/12 11:54 PM
03/03/12 11:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
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Over the past decade? I've asked this question many times, and have yet to get a definite answer, other then an 11/16" is stronger the a 9/16", a 3/4" TR is stronger then 11/16", a 7/8" stronger....... But never to what purpose other then peace of mind, your world stops if one breaks, and so on. Those that give glowing reviews to this upgrade, always seem to also mention they also at the same time reset the alignment, added new shocks, changed TB's, moved the battery to the trunk, but by golly the 11/16" TR are the hot ticket. Nobody has yet said how much flex is possibly involved. When I get home Sunday, I'll try to calculate how much constant arc flex must occur in say a typical 9/16" x 12"? TR assembly to give a whopping 1/16" toe variation. I'm going to take a wild first guess and say the assembly would have to bow 3/8" off center to give a 1/16" decrease in toe from a compression force. I don't think the forces exist, short of a four story building, to stretch in tension the assembly 1/16". I suspect the "weak" link of the TR assembly is the force path thru the curved TR casting, and the reactions there would be the original source for flexing. Heim joints don't have that problem, but they are usually a single shear design, and far from ideal. However I have serious doubts if it is indeed a real issue in the first place. I don't expect we are referring here in "corners" to poorly maintained, or simply worn out TR assemblies and the comparable lifespan of such between 9/16 and 11/16. This topic is just another flavor of the month, IMO, behind LCA reinforcements, adding rear discs on non track driven cars, back braces on 8.75, rear sway bars, .....but I digress
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: jcc]
#1190299
03/04/12 01:01 AM
03/04/12 01:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067 Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
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Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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I always thought it was done for the larger sleeve. Going thicker on the rod itself won't make much of a difference. By the time you bend a tie rod other stuff will be destroyed.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon
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Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: ahy]
#1190301
03/04/12 08:25 AM
03/04/12 08:25 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
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Quote:
I did the upgrade... and no I don't have any meaningful before and after because I changed several things at once. There is another way to look at it though... Chrysler made the upgrade to the heavier tie rods on heavier cars for a reason.
When you put big sticky tires on lighter B's, E's and A's and drive them hard, the steering loads will increase. Upgrades Chrysler made for the heavier cars may be "just right".
A heavier car, heavier truck, is one thing, and I agree many suspension mods are intended to generate higher CORNERING loads, but I have yet to see a strong case made that the STEERING loads increase. We seldom make our cars heavier, actually in "corners" lighter is the preferred goal.
For additional background, review my diatribe in a similar vein over on the welded k members pic thread.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: jcc]
#1190302
03/04/12 10:26 AM
03/04/12 10:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,323 NY NY
340duster340
master
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master
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Posts: 4,323
NY NY
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What did the trans-am and NASCAR guys run bak in the day?
1966 Dart GT
...down to only 1 mopar for the first time in 15 years!
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Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: jcc]
#1190305
03/04/12 09:38 PM
03/04/12 09:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
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repeat by mistake
Last edited by jcc; 03/05/12 12:32 PM.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: jcc]
#1190306
03/04/12 09:50 PM
03/04/12 09:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,695
Bitopia
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Quote:
When I get home Sunday, I'll try to calculate how much constant arc flex must occur in say a typical 9/16" x 12"? TR assembly to give a whopping 1/16" toe variation.
Hope nobody panics, I left the calculator in the drawer, for a few reasons.
Because first there are a few assumptions, TR assembly per side is approx 12" long, the attached steering arm has a lever arm from the ball joint of approx 6", and the "typical" tire is say 26" dia, which means any change in TR assembly length has a 2+ multiplier effect at the point of measured toe. Additionally in my own mind I am not certain as to whether under normal cornering, is one TR assembly under compression and the other under tension or both compression or both tension? Assuming worse case of both under compression, early numbers indicate for a toe total change of 1/16", would require nearly a 1/4" bow in the TR assembly both sides. I can't see that happening. I also don't have a large library/data/real world experience to compare that 1/16" toe change worse case scenario to normal bump steer variations. These TR assemblies are not just flopping around, and would only bow under very high loads.
And at a bit of a stretch, read the this link, I think it has some merit, and easily also explains well, IMO, why caster increases steering effort, with all its benefits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_rudder
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: 11/16 tie rod upgrade, what are the benefits?
[Re: NV69B7RR]
#1190308
03/05/12 01:18 AM
03/05/12 01:18 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688 Marlboro, NY, USA
Rick_Ehrenberg
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
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As I recall the math, it came out 22% less defection.
I wouldn't change TRE's (and sleeves) that are OK, but if you need to change 'em anyway...
You can also weld the slots in the smaller sleeves.
On the opposite end of the scale are the solid 11/16" ID sleeves w/ jam nuts (FFI, etc.)
Rick
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