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69 charger front end alignment problems!! #1186883
02/26/12 11:23 PM
02/26/12 11:23 PM
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kansas city, mo
rave_12000 Offline OP
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ok, so i got the story out of the NTB alignment tech...he couldn't get the passenger side to align, because the top would not come out far enough. they said that i put the wrong upper control arm on...and that the passenger side upper control arm was shorter than the driver side. so i get time to measure it and there is no difference between the 2? what the hell now? i was not aware of any difference in the lengths between e and b bodies. i think that the upper control arms were a matched pair from a 71 cuda. Are the passenger and driver side UCAs the same length? measuring from bushing shoulder to center of ball joint.
my additional question...i think that i may have overtorqued the passenger upper ball joint. i seem to remember that i couldnet get it to click. there are much more threads showing on on the passenger side upper ball joint, than driver side. this might shorten the length of adjustment.

i am just about clueless to this. please help.

Last edited by rave_12000; 02/26/12 11:52 PM.
Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186884
02/27/12 12:23 AM
02/27/12 12:23 AM
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Arlington, Texas
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bobby66 Offline
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Those upper ball joints need to go all the way in. I use a 1" ratchet with a cheater bar and the correct socket.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186885
02/27/12 12:27 AM
02/27/12 12:27 AM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Although you could have bent parts normal wear could be the problem. Always install offset upper bushings in the front location of the upper arm. This will allow more caster with reasonable camber. Also worn lower control arm bushings will cause negative camber. The cars weight will force the bottom of the tire outward. How far off is it? Do you have a printout?
Doug

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: dvw] #1186886
02/27/12 01:02 AM
02/27/12 01:02 AM
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Posts: 389
kansas city, mo
rave_12000 Offline OP
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i am talking threads on the nut side on the bottom, not the top side where you grease. the ball joint, itself, is screwed completely into the UCA. all ball joints and bushings were installed new, even lower control arm bushings. no offset upper bushings. got no print out. i didnt even know they couldnt get it aligned until i had already paid, wen out to the car...and saw that it was totally off. "Oh, no one told you?" jerks.

there is no diff between control arm length left to right. correct?

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186887
02/27/12 02:30 AM
02/27/12 02:30 AM
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Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
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The left and right control arms are mirror images of each other. Same measurements.
It may be stating the obvious, but you need to find a shop with a guy OLDER than 50 that remembers these cars when they were used as daily drivers. There are several details that younger, inexperienced guys just don't understand.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: Kern Dog] #1186888
02/27/12 03:18 AM
02/27/12 03:18 AM
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Fresno, CA
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Did they set the ride height first? I'm guessing the answer is NO and thwe the sides are different.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: Jim_Lusk] #1186889
02/27/12 10:12 AM
02/27/12 10:12 AM
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WV
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JohnH Offline
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How much more did they need to get the alignment in place? I would take it to some one else and see if they can get it to lineup.. Also as some one said check your torsion bar height. You can rasie or lower the car some to get the reading you need. Just because you take it to a person to align it up does not mean they know what they are doing. I worked on front ends of Mopars for several years, and there was some new cars that would not line up from the factory, this was in the 70s, so I raised or lowered the torsion bars to get what I needed.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: JohnH] #1186890
02/27/12 10:49 AM
02/27/12 10:49 AM
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kansas city, mo
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They reset ride height. Gonna take it to a Ford dealer that did a good job with my 70 chall. Wanted to go there first, but they were too busy.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186891
02/27/12 11:17 AM
02/27/12 11:17 AM
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WV
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If they set it too high you may not get camber srttings.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186892
02/27/12 01:27 PM
02/27/12 01:27 PM
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Marlboro, NY, USA
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...then there's always the old bugaboo: LCA stud tube torn loose in K-member.

What specs did you give the guy? Hopefully, at least SOME neg camber and plenty of pos caster.

Some helpful posts in the "corners are best" section.

Rick

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: Rick_Ehrenberg] #1186893
02/27/12 05:27 PM
02/27/12 05:27 PM
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kansas city, mo
rave_12000 Offline OP
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Found a good table on allpar. Gonna take the specs with me and post them here. I questioned ntb if they had it to hi. I think they just gave up on it. Gonna look at the lower control tubes tonite.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186894
02/27/12 07:30 PM
02/27/12 07:30 PM
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WV
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No matter what the book says on the caster setting put as much positive on the caster setting as you can, this will keep the car from wanting to road walk. If you have power steering that is, the more pos, it's harder to steer with out p/s, no problem with power steering.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: JohnH] #1186895
02/28/12 03:49 PM
02/28/12 03:49 PM
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kansas city, mo
rave_12000 Offline OP
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Took it to Ford dealer an got guy that did my challenger. He played with it for about an hour and they called to let me know that they "think" they can get it to the tune of $225? I said ok because I just want to move on. Hope I am not wasting $?

I used slider type calipers and spindles likely from a 78 cordoba. I used it because it was under a 69 charger rt/se. Would these spindles throw the whole deal off? I asked why so complicated and they said it was just completely whack from the way I threw it together. I replaced or refurbished everything.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186896
02/28/12 07:02 PM
02/28/12 07:02 PM
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WV
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I really don't under stand what they can do unless they bend it to get the alignment..

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186897
02/28/12 07:31 PM
02/28/12 07:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
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Granite Bay CA
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I hate to hear of a customer getting burned by incompetent or unscrupulous mechanics. I wish I could see your car in person to get a clearer idea on what is wrong. Maybe the mechanics are confused with the car and, out of pride, are unwilling to admit that they are in over their heads.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: Kern Dog] #1186898
02/28/12 07:52 PM
02/28/12 07:52 PM
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WI
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There shouldn't be any alignment "tech" confused with a classic Mopar car. Camber is camber, caster is caster and toe is toe. Sure they have their quirks(unable to achieve enough pos caster w/o bushings) but still! I've done many classics and rarely had issues making one go down the road! There are literally MILLIONS of GM 4x4 trucks using torsion bars and eccentric cams on the upper control arms!!! This ain't rocket science

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186899
02/28/12 08:00 PM
02/28/12 08:00 PM
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indiana
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Quote:

Took it to Ford dealer an got guy that did my challenger. He played with it for about an hour and they called to let me know that they "think" they can get it to the tune of $225? I said ok because I just want to move on. Hope I am not wasting $?

I used slider type calipers and spindles likely from a 78 cordoba. I used it because it was under a 69 charger rt/se. Would these spindles throw the whole deal off? I asked why so complicated and they said it was just completely whack from the way I threw it together. I replaced or refurbished everything.






i would say your wasting your money.are you kidding me $225.00 for an alignment.wow $70.00 is what we pay here,and he does all the old muscle around here.perfect job every time.sorry you are having such hard luck in a simple front end alignment.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: mcmopars] #1186900
02/28/12 09:16 PM
02/28/12 09:16 PM
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kansas city, mo
rave_12000 Offline OP
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The guy said he worked on it for 5 hours today...and couldn't get it. Says he couldn't get the passenger side out far enough, which is consistent with first shop. They seem to think that the shock tower has been pushed in. Now, how much can I gain with the moog offset uca bushings? Or should it go to the frame shop. I can post specs after I get the printout tomorrow.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186901
02/28/12 09:32 PM
02/28/12 09:32 PM
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kansas city, mo
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You can see the cars build here on my Facebook. Almost done

http://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/media/set/...100001723574420

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186902
02/28/12 09:46 PM
02/28/12 09:46 PM
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indiana
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Quote:

The guy said he worked on it for 5 hours today...and couldn't get it. Says he couldn't get the passenger side out far enough, which is consistent with first shop. They seem to think that the shock tower has been pushed in. Now, how much can I gain with the moog offset uca bushings? Or should it go to the frame shop. I can post specs after I get the printout tomorrow. [/quo


man that sucks,$225.00 today,on top of the other $$ from the first shop.you really need to find out why it will not come into alignment,something is not right,bent or wrong part or something.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: mcmopars] #1186903
02/28/12 09:58 PM
02/28/12 09:58 PM
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kansas city, mo
rave_12000 Offline OP
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Funny part with first shop is that they told me it was finished and hwad me pay and I walk out to find the wheels cockeye. Wtf?

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186904
02/28/12 10:14 PM
02/28/12 10:14 PM
Joined: May 2005
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Florida
BDW Offline
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That's a shame, I paid $150 for lifetime alignment at TiresPlus. Going back my annual visit next week.

As mentioned, bring in your own specs.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186905
02/28/12 10:58 PM
02/28/12 10:58 PM
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Granite Bay CA
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A factory service manual for any 68-70 B body will have a chassis diagram showing various measurements. THESE will help to determine if the frame rails are square and parralel.
It may be stating the obvious, but with a few bent parts, it can be difficult to get within spec.
Sorry, I didn't click on your link to see what you have done, but I'll guess that you are a "hands on" guy. You are probably capable of getting the car pretty close with a few basic tools. I set up the upper control arms as follows: Rotate the REAR alignment cam to allow the rear bushing close to the engine, and the FRONT bushing toward the fender. If the camber looks too negative, adjust the rear cam only. I hope this helps.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: Dcuda69] #1186906
02/28/12 11:16 PM
02/28/12 11:16 PM
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MI, usa
dvw Offline
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Quote:

There shouldn't be any alignment "tech" confused with a classic Mopar car. Camber is camber, caster is caster and toe is toe. Sure they have their quirks(unable to achieve enough pos caster w/o bushings) but still! I've done many classics and rarely had issues making one go down the road! There are literally MILLIONS of GM 4x4 trucks using torsion bars and eccentric cams on the upper control arms!!! This ain't rocket science



I can't believe these guys. All 4WD S-10 and all full size 2wd and 4wd Chevy trucks have cams. Most 4wd have torsion bars as well. Gee, I'll bet know body's ever had to align one of them before. Bent is bent. It doesn't matter what brand it is. Plenty of guys in the Detroit area that could find the problem in 15 minutes. To bad your not close. I'd throw it on the hoist for nothing. Show me the specs. I'll bet I can come close to figuring out by looking at them alone.
Doug

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: Kern Dog] #1186907
02/29/12 12:00 AM
02/29/12 12:00 AM
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Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk Offline
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Quote:

A factory service manual for any 68-70 B body will have a chassis diagram showing various measurements. THESE will help to determine if the frame rails are square and parralel.
It may be stating the obvious, but with a few bent parts, it can be difficult to get within spec.
Sorry, I didn't click on your link to see what you have done, but I'll guess that you are a "hands on" guy. You are probably capable of getting the car pretty close with a few basic tools. I set up the upper control arms as follows: Rotate the REAR alignment cam to allow the rear bushing close to the engine, and the FRONT bushing toward the fender. If the camber looks too negative, adjust the rear cam only. I hope this helps.




Exactly. It may be time to take it to a frame shop, but not if the alignment was closer before the rebuild. There are a number of things that I would look at if the car were in front of me, including strut rod length, control arm straightness, k-member, etc.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: Jim_Lusk] #1186908
02/29/12 12:13 AM
02/29/12 12:13 AM
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kansas city, mo
rave_12000 Offline OP
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1. i guess what i am looking for is to get more info on the moog k7103 offset UCA bushings. 2 techs are telling me that it needs to come out further up top. i think that most guys use the offset only on the front??? if i would put both on, then that should give more outward play. bushings are about $40. might be worth the gamble.

2. i think that both of these techs were using the laser type assemblies. should i find a guy with the old style rack? would this make a difference?

i am really looking for the easiest fix. the car is all assembled and i would rather not take to a frame shop. i know that the car took a hit many years ago, but it was square in the front, so i am really surprised that the shock tower might me off. anyone have the measurements from the b body service manual?

really, thanks for the help guys

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186909
02/29/12 12:36 AM
02/29/12 12:36 AM
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Pataskala, Ohio
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Offset bushings is a band-aid to cover a real problem in your case. They are ment to be used to increase castor for high speed stability. There is no way someone can spend 5 hrs on a simple alignment and not know what is wrong. The 60s-70s Mopars take about 30 minutes to align including set up time and it couldn't take more than 15 minutes to find a problem.

You have one of 4 problems asuming you have the correct parts on it;
frame rail/rails bent
spindle bent
lower control arm bushing beat out
k-frame shifted to the right (which would probably have enlarged mouunting holes and a frame rail issue.

Once again you will have to find someone who knows what they are doing. I wish you the best of luck, I'm surrounded by idiots at my shop now, we can't find any good techs.


65 Belvedere II Station Wagon
69 Coronet R/T convertible
70 GTX
70'cuda
99 Dodge Diesel dually 4X4
Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: GTX70sixpack] #1186910
02/29/12 01:00 AM
02/29/12 01:00 AM
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Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
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Quote:

I'm surrounded by idiots at my shop now, we can't find any good techs.




Lets hope that they don't read THAT. Its hard to get help moving a fridge nowadays...

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: Kern Dog] #1186911
02/29/12 01:08 AM
02/29/12 01:08 AM
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Pataskala, Ohio
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Quote:

Quote:

I'm surrounded by idiots at my shop now, we can't find any good techs.




Lets hope that they don't read THAT. Its hard to get help moving a fridge nowadays...




I would move it by myself before I would trust one of these guys to help, don't think they know left or right, pull or push. And I tell them to there face daily, my names for them are tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum. Seems there not bright enough to be insulted, they think I'm kidding.


65 Belvedere II Station Wagon
69 Coronet R/T convertible
70 GTX
70'cuda
99 Dodge Diesel dually 4X4
Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: GTX70sixpack] #1186912
02/29/12 02:29 AM
02/29/12 02:29 AM
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Fresno, CA
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I wouldn't take it apart first. Jack it up and remove the front wheels. Measure the frame rails diagonally, they should be equal (front k-member bolt to the rear torsion bar socket should be an easy measure). Measure frame rail to front torsion bar socket (looking for a centered k-member). Measure the length of the strut rods. Check for bent control arms or spindles.

I'd probably yank the torsion bars next so that the control arms/spindles can be moved up and down easily if the above didn't reveal anything.

Try setting the cams with the front all the way out and the rear all the way in. Move the rear out until you get to about zero degrees camber (make up some alignment plates - two pieces of sheet metal with greese between them works well and measure with a level - you're just trying to get close and see if you go past zero).

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: Jim_Lusk] #1186913
02/29/12 10:12 AM
02/29/12 10:12 AM
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kansas city, mo
rave_12000 Offline OP
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i placed a want ad on craiglist to find a local expert with old school front end alignments. someone was nice enough to lead me to a guy that has been doing this for years a has an old school rack AND frame repair service. i am going to try to get it over there. i am going to try to get more info out of the ford tech this am. i think that he was real frustrated with the job yesterday. they are going to only charge me the flat $79 and he had to eat the rest. maybe he will be more informative today...or maybe he just goes by the lasers with no clue of the geometrics.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186914
02/29/12 10:37 AM
02/29/12 10:37 AM
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Pataskala, Ohio
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The type of equipment does not matter, if your using bubble guages or the latest and greatest, all just reads where the wheel is. It is a myth that the new equipment is a bad thing for old cars, in fact it makes the job faster and easier. As far as finding someone old enough who knows, it's not age, very few people can wrap the head around how everything relates and what has to be moved to acheive a desired setting. The new machines will even tell you how thick of shims to put where in the old GM's. The thing that most don't get on Chryslers is both ecentrics affect camber and castor and they end up guessing and setting them many different times until they get a close setting.

I would say there are less good alignment techs than there are techs who can build transmissiions. I do everything, always have. The guys I work with take there own cars to shops for repairs claiming I don't know how to do that??? Yet they work at our shop all day????? Lost in space!!!!


65 Belvedere II Station Wagon
69 Coronet R/T convertible
70 GTX
70'cuda
99 Dodge Diesel dually 4X4
Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186915
02/29/12 11:06 AM
02/29/12 11:06 AM
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kansas city, mo
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here are the specs he got:
LEFT
camber: 0.3
caster: -0.9
toe 0.21

RIGHT
camber: -2.4
caster:-4.4
toe 0.18

total toe 0.39
steer ahead 0.02

i handed him these specs for max street perf from allpar skosh chart:
camber: -.75 to 1.0
caster 2.5 to 3.5
toe in 1/16 to 1/8"

He seemed to think that the shock tower needed to come straight out? again, could i solve this with the moog offset UCA bushings?

Last edited by rave_12000; 02/29/12 01:01 PM.
Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186916
02/29/12 11:35 AM
02/29/12 11:35 AM
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kansas city, mo
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to me...it doesnt look like anyone has touched the front nut on the strut bar. is there some adjustment there? if you pull that forward a bit, then you would get more castor, correct?

Last edited by rave_12000; 02/29/12 03:13 PM.
Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186917
02/29/12 03:04 PM
02/29/12 03:04 PM
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WV
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The torsion bar adjustment is on the lower car are that goes straight up.. you are looking at the nut that holds the lower control arm foward in place.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: JohnH] #1186918
02/29/12 03:24 PM
02/29/12 03:24 PM
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kansas city, mo
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Quote:

The torsion bar adjustment is on the lower car are that goes straight up.. you are looking at the nut that holds the lower control arm foward in place.



Correct. Is there adjustment there?

I have an appointment with leroys frameworks in independence, mo. Sounds like they can bend what they need to and align for $210. ($60 for alignment). I wish I would have known about these guys before. Not enough time to get measurements today, so I will let them do it. I am thinking there is a bend somewhere.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186919
02/29/12 04:00 PM
02/29/12 04:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
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Granite Bay CA
No adjustment there. It tightens to a torqued # and it stays at that.
There ARE some adjustable stut rods, that in effect pulls the LCA forward a small amount. THAT will greatly affect caster, but it too has limits.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: Kern Dog] #1186920
02/29/12 05:52 PM
02/29/12 05:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 549
WV
J
JohnH Offline
mopar
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WV
This is interesting,,, keep us posted what the fix is...

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186921
02/29/12 08:50 PM
02/29/12 08:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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dvw  Offline
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Quote:

here are the specs he got:
LEFT
camber: 0.3
caster: -0.9
toe 0.21

RIGHT
camber: -2.4
caster:-4.4
toe 0.18

total toe 0.39
steer ahead 0.02

i handed him these specs for max street perf from allpar skosh chart:
camber: -.75 to 1.0
caster 2.5 to 3.5
toe in 1/16 to 1/8"

He seemed to think that the shock tower needed to come straight out? again, could i solve this with the moog offset UCA bushings?




First off an offset bushing in the left front forward position will get the left side very close to what you need. You may only get 1.5-2.0 degrees of positive caster and 0 camber which will work.. The right side is bent. With that much negative caster the lower ball joint is to far back. Either the lower arm,K-frame,spindle,or frame rail are pushed back. Quick and dirty measurement. How much distance between the rear of the front tire and the wheel well opening? Check the distance between the outer tie rod and the tire. Look for wrinkles in the frame rail behind the K-frame. Some one sharp with a tape measure will find it.
Doug

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: dvw] #1186922
03/01/12 12:44 AM
03/01/12 12:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 389
kansas city, mo
rave_12000 Offline OP
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rave_12000  Offline OP
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kansas city, mo
Quote:

Quote:

here are the specs he got:
LEFT
camber: 0.3
caster: -0.9
toe 0.21

RIGHT
camber: -2.4
caster:-4.4
toe 0.18

total toe 0.39
steer ahead 0.02

i handed him these specs for max street perf from allpar skosh chart:
camber: -.75 to 1.0
caster 2.5 to 3.5
toe in 1/16 to 1/8"

He seemed to think that the shock tower needed to come straight out? again, could i solve this with the moog offset UCA bushings?




First off an offset bushing in the left front forward position will get the left side very close to what you need. You may only get 1.5-2.0 degrees of positive caster and 0 camber which will work.. The right side is bent. With that much negative caster the lower ball joint is to far back. Either the lower arm,K-frame,spindle,or frame rail are pushed back. Quick and dirty measurement. How much distance between the rear of the front tire and the wheel well opening? Check the distance between the outer tie rod and the tire. Look for wrinkles in the frame rail behind the K-frame. Some one sharp with a tape measure will find it.
Doug




thanks for the analysis doug.

i think there is a little more give on the driver side. he just roughed it in and really got hung up on the right side.

i think that the right rail is pushed back. it took a hit in the front that looked pretty much square to me. there is some buckling, but in front to just directly over the front of the k frame. i seriously doubt that there is a bent control arm or spindle. i gave them a serious workover when i restored them.

from brainstorming, i think that it might make since to loosen up the k frame and rear transmission mount and see how far we can pull it forward. to go further, maybe we could elongate the main k frame bolts and pull it evan further forward and suck it down with the impact wrench. this should help castor on each side. i guess offset bushings could be added if necessary. i do not think that the shock tower is bent...i just cannot see any indication on the inner fenders (i.e. bends, buckles, etc.).

i will know more tomorrow afternoon...

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186923
03/01/12 12:55 AM
03/01/12 12:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 389
kansas city, mo
rave_12000 Offline OP
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rave_12000  Offline OP
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kansas city, mo
finally got a pic compressed enough to fit on here

7097536-IMAG0452(1).jpg (169 downloads)
Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186924
03/01/12 03:45 AM
03/01/12 03:45 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 114
Adelaide Australia
P
peter Offline
member
peter  Offline
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P

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 114
Adelaide Australia
i had a problem getting my charger to wheel align and it ended up being that the washer holding the lower control arm where the wrong size and i think the nut was nut was pulling through

7097730-Untitled.png (63 downloads)
Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186925
03/01/12 07:33 AM
03/01/12 07:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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dvw  Offline
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MI, usa
I've slotted the K-frame holes before. Just make sure to tack weld the K so it can't move around after. I did this to a buddys A-990 65 Dodge after a HUGE wheel stand. Was good ever since, 140 mph+ strip passes.
Doug

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: dvw] #1186926
03/02/12 01:39 AM
03/02/12 01:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 389
kansas city, mo
rave_12000 Offline OP
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kansas city, mo
so, got the car to the frame shop today. they checked it out and found that the culprit is a bent lower control arm. this blows my mind when i think about how much time i spent working with the thing. i am going to go pick it up and swap the arm out tomorrow am. while i am at it, i got a pair of the moog offset uca bushings to put in. frame guy recommended this...but he suggests to put them BOTH offset outward?

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186927
03/02/12 02:33 AM
03/02/12 02:33 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,168
Vancouver, WA
MoparMarq Offline
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MoparMarq  Offline
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Posts: 1,168
Vancouver, WA
Quote:

so, got the car to the frame shop today. they checked it out and found that the culprit is a bent lower control arm. this blows my mind when i think about how much time i spent working with the thing. i am going to go pick it up and swap the arm out tomorrow am. while i am at it, i got a pair of the moog offset uca bushings to put in. frame guy recommended this...but he suggests to put them BOTH offset outward?




Nice to hear it's a relatively easy fix - compared to, say, a bent frame rail.

I agree with the offset bushing install - both outward. You can always adjust the cam bolt inboard on the aft one to get the camber where you want, and adjust the front cam bolt, if necessary, to dial in the caster as necessary for the spec you want, or to match the other side...

I'm sure Rick will chime in, but you'll want as much caster as you can dial in, with the camber near zero or slightly negative - especially with the rear of the car up a bit like it is. Power steering will take the effort out...

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: MoparMarq] #1186928
03/02/12 02:51 AM
03/02/12 02:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline
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Granite Bay CA
I just looked over the specs you posted before. Putting the offset bushings BOTH outward is a good idea, since the car showed over 2 degrees of NEG camber on the right.
Its good to hear that you are getting close to a solution!

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: Kern Dog] #1186929
03/02/12 07:33 AM
03/02/12 07:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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dvw  Offline
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Posts: 9,791
MI, usa
I don't agree with both outward and here's why. You don't have anywhere near enough positive caster on the right front. The camber is off but not near as bad. These cars never have too much positive caster. This coupled with the fact that there could still be a component that is still "tweaked on that side would lead me to set it up with only a front offset bushing facing outward. I'd rather run the camber at -1/2 degree than only end up with 0-1/2 degree positive camber. Glad you are finding a solution to your problem.
Doug

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: dvw] #1186930
03/02/12 10:33 AM
03/02/12 10:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 389
kansas city, mo
rave_12000 Offline OP
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kansas city, mo
i am inclined to put the front bushing outward and the rear inward. this should rotate the uca back and provide more caster. we need to consider how much caster we can get out of the driver side, especially since i do not intend to replace the uca bushings on driver side. an unbent lca should fix the camber. however, this guy worked on the cars when they were new...and plans to get it in line, so i am going to follow his lead! off to the shop!

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