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69 charger front end alignment problems!! #1186883 02/26/12 11:23 PM 02/26/12 11:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 389 kansas city, mo rave_12000 OP enthusiast
rave_12000 OP enthusiast Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 389 kansas city, mo	ok, so i got the story out of the NTB alignment tech...he couldn't get the passenger side to align, because the top would not come out far enough. they said that i put the wrong upper control arm on...and that the passenger side upper control arm was shorter than the driver side. so i get time to measure it and there is no difference between the 2? what the hell now? i was not aware of any difference in the lengths between e and b bodies. i think that the upper control arms were a matched pair from a 71 cuda. Are the passenger and driver side UCAs the same length? measuring from bushing shoulder to center of ball joint. my additional question...i think that i may have overtorqued the passenger upper ball joint. i seem to remember that i couldnet get it to click. there are much more threads showing on on the passenger side upper ball joint, than driver side. this might shorten the length of adjustment. i am just about clueless to this. please help. Last edited by rave_12000; 02/26/12 11:52 PM.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186884 02/27/12 12:23 AM 02/27/12 12:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,804 Arlington, Texas B bobby66 master
bobby66 master B Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 3,804 Arlington, Texas	Those upper ball joints need to go all the way in. I use a 1" ratchet with a cheater bar and the correct socket.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186885 02/27/12 12:27 AM 02/27/12 12:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,824 MI, usa dvw master
dvw master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,824 MI, usa	Although you could have bent parts normal wear could be the problem. Always install offset upper bushings in the front location of the upper arm. This will allow more caster with reasonable camber. Also worn lower control arm bushings will cause negative camber. The cars weight will force the bottom of the tire outward. How far off is it? Do you have a printout? Doug

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: dvw] #1186886 02/27/12 01:02 AM 02/27/12 01:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 389 kansas city, mo rave_12000 OP enthusiast
rave_12000 OP enthusiast Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 389 kansas city, mo	i am talking threads on the nut side on the bottom, not the top side where you grease. the ball joint, itself, is screwed completely into the UCA. all ball joints and bushings were installed new, even lower control arm bushings. no offset upper bushings. got no print out. i didnt even know they couldnt get it aligned until i had already paid, wen out to the car...and saw that it was totally off. "Oh, no one told you?" jerks. there is no diff between control arm length left to right. correct?

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186887 02/27/12 02:30 AM 02/27/12 02:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog Striving for excellence
Kern Dog Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	The left and right control arms are mirror images of each other. Same measurements. It may be stating the obvious, but you need to find a shop with a guy OLDER than 50 that remembers these cars when they were used as daily drivers. There are several details that younger, inexperienced guys just don't understand.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: Kern Dog] #1186888 02/27/12 03:18 AM 02/27/12 03:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 18,678 Fresno, CA Jim_Lusk I Live Here
Jim_Lusk I Live Here Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 18,678 Fresno, CA	Did they set the ride height first? I'm guessing the answer is NO and thwe the sides are different.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: Jim_Lusk] #1186889 02/27/12 10:12 AM 02/27/12 10:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 549 WV J JohnH mopar
JohnH mopar J Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 549 WV	How much more did they need to get the alignment in place? I would take it to some one else and see if they can get it to lineup.. Also as some one said check your torsion bar height. You can rasie or lower the car some to get the reading you need. Just because you take it to a person to align it up does not mean they know what they are doing. I worked on front ends of Mopars for several years, and there was some new cars that would not line up from the factory, this was in the 70s, so I raised or lowered the torsion bars to get what I needed.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: JohnH] #1186890 02/27/12 10:49 AM 02/27/12 10:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 389 kansas city, mo rave_12000 OP enthusiast
rave_12000 OP enthusiast Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 389 kansas city, mo	They reset ride height. Gonna take it to a Ford dealer that did a good job with my 70 chall. Wanted to go there first, but they were too busy.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186891 02/27/12 11:17 AM 02/27/12 11:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 549 WV J JohnH mopar
JohnH mopar J Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 549 WV	If they set it too high you may not get camber srttings.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186892 02/27/12 01:27 PM 02/27/12 01:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,688 Marlboro, NY, USA R Rick_Ehrenberg top fuel
Rick_Ehrenberg top fuel R Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,688 Marlboro, NY, USA	...then there's always the old bugaboo: LCA stud tube torn loose in K-member. What specs did you give the guy? Hopefully, at least SOME neg camber and plenty of pos caster. Some helpful posts in the "corners are best" section. Rick

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: Rick_Ehrenberg] #1186893 02/27/12 05:27 PM 02/27/12 05:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 389 kansas city, mo rave_12000 OP enthusiast
rave_12000 OP enthusiast Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 389 kansas city, mo	Found a good table on allpar. Gonna take the specs with me and post them here. I questioned ntb if they had it to hi. I think they just gave up on it. Gonna look at the lower control tubes tonite.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186894 02/27/12 07:30 PM 02/27/12 07:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 549 WV J JohnH mopar
JohnH mopar J Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 549 WV	No matter what the book says on the caster setting put as much positive on the caster setting as you can, this will keep the car from wanting to road walk. If you have power steering that is, the more pos, it's harder to steer with out p/s, no problem with power steering.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: JohnH] #1186895 02/28/12 03:49 PM 02/28/12 03:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 389 kansas city, mo rave_12000 OP enthusiast
rave_12000 OP enthusiast Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 389 kansas city, mo	Took it to Ford dealer an got guy that did my challenger. He played with it for about an hour and they called to let me know that they "think" they can get it to the tune of $225? I said ok because I just want to move on. Hope I am not wasting $? I used slider type calipers and spindles likely from a 78 cordoba. I used it because it was under a 69 charger rt/se. Would these spindles throw the whole deal off? I asked why so complicated and they said it was just completely whack from the way I threw it together. I replaced or refurbished everything.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186896 02/28/12 07:02 PM 02/28/12 07:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 549 WV J JohnH mopar
JohnH mopar J Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 549 WV	I really don't under stand what they can do unless they bend it to get the alignment..

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186897 02/28/12 07:31 PM 02/28/12 07:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog Striving for excellence
Kern Dog Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	I hate to hear of a customer getting burned by incompetent or unscrupulous mechanics. I wish I could see your car in person to get a clearer idea on what is wrong. Maybe the mechanics are confused with the car and, out of pride, are unwilling to admit that they are in over their heads.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: Kern Dog] #1186898 02/28/12 07:52 PM 02/28/12 07:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,941 WI Dcuda69 master
Dcuda69 master Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 4,941 WI	There shouldn't be any alignment "tech" confused with a classic Mopar car. Camber is camber, caster is caster and toe is toe. Sure they have their quirks(unable to achieve enough pos caster w/o bushings) but still! I've done many classics and rarely had issues making one go down the road! There are literally MILLIONS of GM 4x4 trucks using torsion bars and eccentric cams on the upper control arms!!! This ain't rocket science

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186899 02/28/12 08:00 PM 02/28/12 08:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,012 indiana M mcmopars super stock
mcmopars super stock M Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,012 indiana	Quote: Took it to Ford dealer an got guy that did my challenger. He played with it for about an hour and they called to let me know that they "think" they can get it to the tune of $225? I said ok because I just want to move on. Hope I am not wasting $? I used slider type calipers and spindles likely from a 78 cordoba. I used it because it was under a 69 charger rt/se. Would these spindles throw the whole deal off? I asked why so complicated and they said it was just completely whack from the way I threw it together. I replaced or refurbished everything. i would say your wasting your money.are you kidding me $225.00 for an alignment.wow $70.00 is what we pay here,and he does all the old muscle around here.perfect job every time.sorry you are having such hard luck in a simple front end alignment.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: mcmopars] #1186900 02/28/12 09:16 PM 02/28/12 09:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 389 kansas city, mo rave_12000 OP enthusiast
rave_12000 OP enthusiast Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 389 kansas city, mo	The guy said he worked on it for 5 hours today...and couldn't get it. Says he couldn't get the passenger side out far enough, which is consistent with first shop. They seem to think that the shock tower has been pushed in. Now, how much can I gain with the moog offset uca bushings? Or should it go to the frame shop. I can post specs after I get the printout tomorrow.

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186901 02/28/12 09:32 PM 02/28/12 09:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 389 kansas city, mo rave_12000 OP enthusiast
rave_12000 OP enthusiast Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 389 kansas city, mo	You can see the cars build here on my Facebook. Almost done http://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#!/media/set/...100001723574420

Re: 69 charger front end alignment problems!! [Re: rave_12000] #1186902 02/28/12 09:46 PM 02/28/12 09:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,012 indiana M mcmopars super stock
mcmopars super stock M Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,012 indiana	Quote: The guy said he worked on it for 5 hours today...and couldn't get it. Says he couldn't get the passenger side out far enough, which is consistent with first shop. They seem to think that the shock tower has been pushed in. Now, how much can I gain with the moog offset uca bushings? Or should it go to the frame shop. I can post specs after I get the printout tomorrow. [/quo man that sucks,$225.00 today,on top of the other $$ from the first shop.you really need to find out why it will not come into alignment,something is not right,bent or wrong part or something.

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