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SIX PACK WON'T IDLE #116668
09/07/08 04:44 PM
09/07/08 04:44 PM

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I had an earlier post in regards to the jetting in my six pack. I put 66 jets in center carb from 62 jets and adjusted the outside carbs on idle set the timing at 16 deg inital and it runs really good. The question I have now is I can set the rpm's all the way to 1500 rpm's and when I put it in gear it drops down to about 500 rpm's and need to give it a little gas for it to stay idling. It has 484 cam 30 over 915 heads.IT HAS A 3.5 POWER VALVE IN THE CENTER CARB So what's the deal with the thing

Thanks Moparts

Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE #116669
09/07/08 06:07 PM
09/07/08 06:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,586
Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana
ProStDodge Offline
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Put your timing light on it and have someone drop it in gear for you, if the timing drops, the advance springs are too light.

If it stays at 16 all the way down to 7-800 rpm, my guess would be a lean condition. Richen Idle screws and check for vacuum leaks.

Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE #116670
09/08/08 06:41 PM
09/08/08 06:41 PM

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WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF I DISCONNECT THE VACUMN ADVANCE. I UNDERSTAND THAT SOME GUYS DON'T USE IT.

THANKS

Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE #116671
09/08/08 08:50 PM
09/08/08 08:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 836
lancaster, new york
macmic87 Offline
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lancaster, new york
at idle, disconnecting the vacuum advance should have no effect. double check your float bowls on the out board carbs(this is critical). you will actually want the fuel flowing out pretty good to get it to the right level. then recheck all of the idle adjustments on all 3 carbs with a tach and a vac gauge. what kind of vacuum do you have at idle? a 3.5 power vavle sounds like to low of a value.

Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE [Re: macmic87] #116672
09/09/08 11:15 PM
09/09/08 11:15 PM
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arizona, usa
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lokalik Offline
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this worked for me. i don't know what your vac is, mine is low. i disconnected the pcv valve hose from the manifold, capped the manifold port and let the pcv hose vent to atmosphere. i run a 2.5 power valve.

Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE [Re: ProStDodge] #116673
09/10/08 12:12 AM
09/10/08 12:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,760
Port Alberni, British Columbia
MoparDonny Offline
top fuel
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Quote:

Put your timing light on it and have someone drop it in gear for you, if the timing drops, the advance springs are too light.

If it stays at 16 all the way down to 7-800 rpm, my guess would be a lean condition. Richen Idle screws and check for vacuum leaks.




That would be my advice too. Nowhere enough cam for those kind of problems. I have a 509 in my 440 with 15 degrees initial timing and my Rpm goes from -800 in park to 750 in gear.

Don.

Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE #116674
09/10/08 08:14 AM
09/10/08 08:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
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N/E, Michigan
RATTRAP Offline
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intake vacume leak?

Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE #116675
09/10/08 05:24 PM
09/10/08 05:24 PM

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WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO CHECK FOR A VACUMN LEAK. I'M GOING TO PUT IN A 2.5 POWER VALVE AND 68 JETTING AND TRY THAT. THEY SAY THAT IF IT GASES YOU THE POWER VALVE ISN'T STAYING SHUT AND IT SURE BURNS MY EYES WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

THANKS

Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE #116676
09/10/08 06:18 PM
09/10/08 06:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
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michigan woods
imfixinmopars426 Offline
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have you tried to adjust the outboards idle screws yet? pull the plugs out and adjust the screws,yea ya gotta pull the center to get to the rear,or pull the rear? do a search on the carbs and "dayclona" has a lot of good info!! it helped me on a bird w/ a 440+6 w/ a 509 cam[not my idea] and i got it to idle nice,good luck.

Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE #116677
09/10/08 10:01 PM
09/10/08 10:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
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Cincinnati,Ohio
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jcastle1 Offline
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Cincinnati,Ohio
I would like someone who knows to answer this specific question as well.How can you tell without pulling the carbs and checking ,if the power valve is "bad".
What exactly are the symptoms on a six pack setup?


WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO CHECK FOR A VACUMN LEAK. I'M GOING TO PUT IN A 2.5 POWER VALVE AND 68 JETTING AND TRY THAT. THEY SAY THAT IF IT GASES YOU THE POWER VALVE ISN'T STAYING SHUT AND IT SURE BURNS MY EYES WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

THANKS

Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE [Re: jcastle1] #116678
09/10/08 10:44 PM
09/10/08 10:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,760
Port Alberni, British Columbia
MoparDonny Offline
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Exactly what kind of Cam is in this thing that would warrant a 2.5 powervalve? Mine gives no trouble being a stock 6.5 and I only produce 10 inches of vac at best when idling.
I agree to pull it apart and put a different PV in it but unless the 2.5 is already on the bench I wouldn't waste my money.
Check the carbs over(with them off), put a new PV in, set the throttle blades as advised. See how that works and go from there.

Don.

Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE [Re: jcastle1] #116679
09/10/08 10:55 PM
09/10/08 10:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 836
lancaster, new york
macmic87 Offline
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lancaster, new york
if the power vavle is shot then you should be running rich all the time. choosing the correct power valve is determined by the amout of vacuum you are generating. what is you vacuum at idle in and out of gear? using those values, the rule is either half the value in neutral or 2 points lower when in gear. example vacuum in neutral is 15", then use a 7.5 power valve. but if the power valve is intact then your idling problem is elsewhere.

Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE [Re: jcastle1] #116680
09/10/08 10:57 PM
09/10/08 10:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert Offline
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Lincoln Nebraska
Quote:

I would like someone who knows to answer this specific question as well.How can you tell without pulling the carbs and checking ,if the power valve is "bad".THANKS


eng warmed up & idling, screw idle mixture screws both all the way in & if it does not die the PV is "bad".


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE #116681
09/10/08 11:00 PM
09/10/08 11:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 836
lancaster, new york
macmic87 Offline
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lancaster, new york
this is a copy of some of the best advice i got in tuning a sixpack..............

I have to agree strongly with Mike(HPMike) I've been running six pack inductions for about 30 years now, sm blk, big blk, and even the custom 6 pak cast HEMI intake manifolds that I made for the 71 wingcars,.....I don't have anything but, sixpack cars,,,,,,,,I've rebuilt countless numbers of carbs, along with countless installations and tunings,....when there are troubles, it usally due to someone unfamilar with there tuning or functions, or attempts at trying to improve them,......which usally results in "problem" carbs, starting, stalling, flooding issuse!.....seeing your have "new" carbs/ set-uo,....I'd recommend you use a Carter street pump, don't use rubber hose, it's problems down the road!, use a factory style/ repro steel, or stainless steel fuel line kit,a good quality hi flow fuel filter, AFTER the pump!, not before!, you'll restrict the fuel flow, Factory style linkage, no junk progrssive/ mech linkage!, change out the brass side float screw on the fuel bowls (all 3 bowls) with Holleys clear sight plugs, this way you can see your float level, and no gas spills trying to adjust, their like $4 each,.....when setting the fuel level, I've found that it's best to bring it up to half the height of the clear sight plug, (can't do this with the brass sight screw!, unless you have X-ray vision, hence the need to install the clear plastic sights).....plus "if" you ever have a starting problem, just shaking the car side to side will slosh the fuel in the clear site, and you'll know wether or not you have fuel in the bowl,....after you have basically installed the set-up, and started the car, and set an acceptable idle after warm up, with the engine running, set the floats, start with the center carb, the slotted screw on top of the float adjuster, is just a lock screw, you can remove it for now, the 5/8" nut is the adjuster/needle seat nut, rotating it counter clockwise will raise fuel level in the bowl, clockwise will lower it, make small 1/2 turns let the car run a bit, check the fuel in the clear site window, half the window is ideal height, esp. in the front and rear carbs, when they dump in, you don't wanna lean the engine, which on a sixpack car, might "melt" a piston or two!....really!, been, there, done that!....after you set the fuel level in all 3 carbs, reset the idle on the center carb, by disconnecting the linkage on the end carbs, if your using an idle solenoid, make sure it's energized in the up position contacting the center carbs solenoid idle arm screw, set the desired idle, that keeps your car running, factory specs are a guide line, your cam, vacumm, etc, will affect your desired RPM range, after you establish this idle, this is what your car will run with, now de-energize the solenoid, using the idle srew located on the ceter carbs main throttle shaft, set the idle to a bare minimum running idle, this is were your throttle shaft will close down too when you shut off the car, and the idle solenoid de-energizes, if later you have shut down problems of the car desieling, (sputtering run on after shut down) keep lowering the idle screw on the center carb main shaft, untill this is condition is eliminated, the idle solenoid was added to maintain an idle, and allow the throttle blade to choke off the engine on shutdown if needed, when it de-energized, after your center card idle is set, now comes the fun, start the car, in idle, the front and rear carbs are still disconnected at their main throttle linkage, (important note: make sure no vacumm source is hooked up to the front and rear carbs when main linkage is disconnected, cause any reving you may do, might tip in a end carb! with vacumm!, and if you can't shut it down in time, you might lose an engine!....seen it done!)to properly set the fuel/ air mixture idle screws, start with the center carb, hook up a tach.......warmed up, good idle (low)....turn the fuel/ air mixture screws (2) located on each side of the center carb metering block, do one at a time, run it in slowly, until the engine begins to stumble, slowy back it out watching the tach needle, stop when you've obtained the highest rpm reading,....you can also do this with a vacumm gauge attached to MANIFOLD vacumm, I like to use both at the same time, ...repeat the process for the other side, when done, now re-do-it, again, just to confirm settings, now some of the end carbs, have their fuel idle screws "plugged" with lead, they are located in the base, in the front of the carb base plate, under the bowl, if plugged, dig out lead plug, most people think ones for fuel, ones for air , their not!, you'll adjust these screws just like the center carb, except you can't just use a vacumm/ tach gauge,....look into the top of the front end carb, you see 2 small projections in each bore on each side, just below the neck, these are the air bleeds, block off the outer bleed using your finger over the small tiny hole, with the motor running at idle (low), it should stumble or pick up in idle, when you block off, either outboard bleed, set the front carb first, pick a bore, left or right, with it's coresponding baseplate idle screw, block the bleed off with your finger,(make sure the carbs throttle plate is fully closed) do one side at a time, when you block the bleed, if the idle increases, too much fuel, remove your finger, turn the base screw on the side your blocking the bleed on, in, one turn, block the bleed again, listen for the idle, (you could use a tach gauge at this point), if it stumbles/ decreases, no fuel, back the base screw off a half turn, block the air bleed again see where the "idle" is,......keep adjusting in this fashion until there's no change in idle, no increase/ decrease, you now have the ideal fuel/ air ratio for the vacummm requirement on your motor, complete this for both sides of the front carb, shut off the motor, disconnect this carb remove it, re-install it in the rear,....install the rear carb, now in the front, adjust this carb like you did to the last one, after you hook up everything, now here's when most guys will balk at this move,....they'll insist the air/fuel mixture won't be 100% by moving the tuned front carb to the rear, well if your truly familiar with the sixpack set-up, you know getting to the rear carbs base screws is fustrating to say the least, unless your squeezeing every ounze of effeciency out of the motor, this technique is far better than leaving the factory setting/ lead plugs in, with is usally a lean set-up,,,,,,, after setting this relocated carb up, if you wish you can "play" trying to "tweak" the rear carb, this may include a round of removal the "tweak" the screws to obtain that last ounze of "tuning", I've yet to see a "tool", truly capable of fitting into the installed rear carbs "idle screws"......anybody?,

Well, when your "done" setting the air/ fuel "idle" mixtures on the end carbs, connect the end linkages, to the end carbs, do it with the idle solenoid energized, the rods are threaded were they join together on the center carb, they install on the end carbs with rod clips, there is a F/R or left?right handed clip, energize solenoid, do the front carb first, make sure the linkage is pulled far forward on the center carb secondary rail, thread the rod, in or out, until it fits nicely in the hole, then proceed to the rear, repeat this proceedure, now check the linkage for any binding, you should be able to chrack open (engine off!) the center car, WOT, and manually open both carbs by rotating the front carb throttle arm, close the center carb, check all linkage for binding, readjust if needed, now de-energize the idle solenoid, see if any bind is preventing the center carb from closing on the main throttle shaft idle screw, you may have to comprimise on some idle/ and or end carb linkage adjustments to have an ideal, functioning set-up, but once you take the time to do this, you'll appreciate your efforts!,....as far as altering the end carb secondary springs in the vacumm pods,.....I like a sixpack to come in quick,....you'll have to buy 2 sping kits, replace with the "white" springs if you want a quick responding set-up,....if you what a mid range set-up use the "yellow" springs,.....any thing in the brown or black range is worthless.,,,,,Hell I could write a book here, I probally have, if you have any other questions, PM me.......I wrote this for others, to utilize as well,.......

Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE [Re: macmic87] #116682
09/11/08 12:14 AM
09/11/08 12:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 953
Badham Co.
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Y3 70 BEE Offline
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Y

Joined: Jan 2007
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Badham Co.
Quote:

this is a copy of some of the best advice i got in tuning a sixpack..............

I have to agree strongly with Mike(HPMike) I've been running six pack inductions for about 30 years now, sm blk, big blk, and even the custom 6 pak cast HEMI intake manifolds that I made for the 71 wingcars,.....I don't have anything but, sixpack cars,,,,,,,,I've rebuilt countless numbers of carbs, along with countless installations and tunings,....when there are troubles, it usally due to someone unfamilar with there tuning or functions, or attempts at trying to improve them,......which usally results in "problem" carbs, starting, stalling, flooding issuse!.....seeing your have "new" carbs/ set-uo,....I'd recommend you use a Carter street pump, don't use rubber hose, it's problems down the road!, use a factory style/ repro steel, or stainless steel fuel line kit,a good quality hi flow fuel filter, AFTER the pump!, not before!, you'll restrict the fuel flow, Factory style linkage, no junk progrssive/ mech linkage!, change out the brass side float screw on the fuel bowls (all 3 bowls) with Holleys clear sight plugs, this way you can see your float level, and no gas spills trying to adjust, their like $4 each,.....when setting the fuel level, I've found that it's best to bring it up to half the height of the clear sight plug, (can't do this with the brass sight screw!, unless you have X-ray vision, hence the need to install the clear plastic sights).....plus "if" you ever have a starting problem, just shaking the car side to side will slosh the fuel in the clear site, and you'll know wether or not you have fuel in the bowl,....after you have basically installed the set-up, and started the car, and set an acceptable idle after warm up, with the engine running, set the floats, start with the center carb, the slotted screw on top of the float adjuster, is just a lock screw, you can remove it for now, the 5/8" nut is the adjuster/needle seat nut, rotating it counter clockwise will raise fuel level in the bowl, clockwise will lower it, make small 1/2 turns let the car run a bit, check the fuel in the clear site window, half the window is ideal height, esp. in the front and rear carbs, when they dump in, you don't wanna lean the engine, which on a sixpack car, might "melt" a piston or two!....really!, been, there, done that!....after you set the fuel level in all 3 carbs, reset the idle on the center carb, by disconnecting the linkage on the end carbs, if your using an idle solenoid, make sure it's energized in the up position contacting the center carbs solenoid idle arm screw, set the desired idle, that keeps your car running, factory specs are a guide line, your cam, vacumm, etc, will affect your desired RPM range, after you establish this idle, this is what your car will run with, now de-energize the solenoid, using the idle srew located on the ceter carbs main throttle shaft, set the idle to a bare minimum running idle, this is were your throttle shaft will close down too when you shut off the car, and the idle solenoid de-energizes, if later you have shut down problems of the car desieling, (sputtering run on after shut down) keep lowering the idle screw on the center carb main shaft, untill this is condition is eliminated, the idle solenoid was added to maintain an idle, and allow the throttle blade to choke off the engine on shutdown if needed, when it de-energized, after your center card idle is set, now comes the fun, start the car, in idle, the front and rear carbs are still disconnected at their main throttle linkage, (important note: make sure no vacumm source is hooked up to the front and rear carbs when main linkage is disconnected, cause any reving you may do, might tip in a end carb! with vacumm!, and if you can't shut it down in time, you might lose an engine!....seen it done!)to properly set the fuel/ air mixture idle screws, start with the center carb, hook up a tach.......warmed up, good idle (low)....turn the fuel/ air mixture screws (2) located on each side of the center carb metering block, do one at a time, run it in slowly, until the engine begins to stumble, slowy back it out watching the tach needle, stop when you've obtained the highest rpm reading,....you can also do this with a vacumm gauge attached to MANIFOLD vacumm, I like to use both at the same time, ...repeat the process for the other side, when done, now re-do-it, again, just to confirm settings, now some of the end carbs, have their fuel idle screws "plugged" with lead, they are located in the base, in the front of the carb base plate, under the bowl, if plugged, dig out lead plug, most people think ones for fuel, ones for air , their not!, you'll adjust these screws just like the center carb, except you can't just use a vacumm/ tach gauge,....look into the top of the front end carb, you see 2 small projections in each bore on each side, just below the neck, these are the air bleeds, block off the outer bleed using your finger over the small tiny hole, with the motor running at idle (low), it should stumble or pick up in idle, when you block off, either outboard bleed, set the front carb first, pick a bore, left or right, with it's coresponding baseplate idle screw, block the bleed off with your finger,(make sure the carbs throttle plate is fully closed) do one side at a time, when you block the bleed, if the idle increases, too much fuel, remove your finger, turn the base screw on the side your blocking the bleed on, in, one turn, block the bleed again, listen for the idle, (you could use a tach gauge at this point), if it stumbles/ decreases, no fuel, back the base screw off a half turn, block the air bleed again see where the "idle" is,......keep adjusting in this fashion until there's no change in idle, no increase/ decrease, you now have the ideal fuel/ air ratio for the vacummm requirement on your motor, complete this for both sides of the front carb, shut off the motor, disconnect this carb remove it, re-install it in the rear,....install the rear carb, now in the front, adjust this carb like you did to the last one, after you hook up everything, now here's when most guys will balk at this move,....they'll insist the air/fuel mixture won't be 100% by moving the tuned front carb to the rear, well if your truly familiar with the sixpack set-up, you know getting to the rear carbs base screws is fustrating to say the least, unless your squeezeing every ounze of effeciency out of the motor, this technique is far better than leaving the factory setting/ lead plugs in, with is usally a lean set-up,,,,,,, after setting this relocated carb up, if you wish you can "play" trying to "tweak" the rear carb, this may include a round of removal the "tweak" the screws to obtain that last ounze of "tuning", I've yet to see a "tool", truly capable of fitting into the installed rear carbs "idle screws"......anybody?,

Well, when your "done" setting the air/ fuel "idle" mixtures on the end carbs, connect the end linkages, to the end carbs, do it with the idle solenoid energized, the rods are threaded were they join together on the center carb, they install on the end carbs with rod clips, there is a F/R or left?right handed clip, energize solenoid, do the front carb first, make sure the linkage is pulled far forward on the center carb secondary rail, thread the rod, in or out, until it fits nicely in the hole, then proceed to the rear, repeat this proceedure, now check the linkage for any binding, you should be able to chrack open (engine off!) the center car, WOT, and manually open both carbs by rotating the front carb throttle arm, close the center carb, check all linkage for binding, readjust if needed, now de-energize the idle solenoid, see if any bind is preventing the center carb from closing on the main throttle shaft idle screw, you may have to comprimise on some idle/ and or end carb linkage adjustments to have an ideal, functioning set-up, but once you take the time to do this, you'll appreciate your efforts!,....as far as altering the end carb secondary springs in the vacumm pods,.....I like a sixpack to come in quick,....you'll have to buy 2 sping kits, replace with the "white" springs if you want a quick responding set-up,....if you what a mid range set-up use the "yellow" springs,.....any thing in the brown or black range is worthless.,,,,,Hell I could write a book here, I probally have, if you have any other questions, PM me.......I wrote this for others, to utilize as well,.......


I think if you remove the float adjustment lock screw and try to adjust the float when the car is running you will have quite a flammable mess.

Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE [Re: Y3 70 BEE] #116683
09/11/08 05:56 AM
09/11/08 05:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 519
Virginia
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larry4406 Offline
mopar
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Virginia
Y3 70 Bee - the instructions say to install clear sight plugs so the level can be adjusted half way up the port.

Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE [Re: Y3 70 BEE] #116684
09/11/08 07:46 AM
09/11/08 07:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 836
lancaster, new york
macmic87 Offline
super stock
macmic87  Offline
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Posts: 836
lancaster, new york
all i can tell you is that i got stuck with trying to do all of the quick fixes. well there isn't a quick fix. if you follow along and do the step by step, you will be farther ahead at the end. have a good ignition curve in place, perform the carb adjustments as they are called out and you will be surprised as to how it will all fall into place.

Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE [Re: macmic87] #116685
09/11/08 07:57 AM
09/11/08 07:57 AM

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Anonymous OP
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black plugs is a good indication of a blown PV. I have backfired many times and never have I blown one (i have the adpter for my mityvac that tests them).

You could buy a PV plug and install it and if its the same sympton, its nt a blown pv.

that being said, my six pack does (and always has burned my eyes). they are hard to tune when you get a big cam in there (over 484/282 or 240 at .050)

What you really need to do is set the idle where it will run then remove the carb and look at how far open the throttle is. its probably open too far causing you to run on the main circuit because the transfer slot is open too far.

upping the timing to 16-20 dbtdc will speed up the idle so you can close down the throttle and get back to the idle circuit.

Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE #116686
09/11/08 11:47 AM
09/11/08 11:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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moper Offline
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Columbia, CT
Tuning a 6bbl is no worse than any otehr carb. If the engine is healthy and parts matched (meaning a decent static ratio and the cam degreed in properly) they are really, really easy. The 6bbls I've owned and tuned all idle at around 750, noen thunk into gear, they dont burn well at idle because of the overlap, but there's no crud on the back end of the cars like most I've seen. There's no magic to a 6bbl. It's just the primary side of a 650 carb. I agree with the timing issues, and that timing ALWAYS gets set first. Then carb adjustments.


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: SIX PACK WON'T IDLE [Re: larry4406] #116687
09/11/08 02:43 PM
09/11/08 02:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 953
Badham Co.
Y
Y3 70 BEE Offline
super stock
Y3 70 BEE  Offline
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Y

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 953
Badham Co.
Quote:

Y3 70 Bee - the instructions say to install clear sight plugs so the level can be adjusted half way up the port.


He says to remove the lock screw for the float adjustment on top of the needle and seat and run the car. If you do that fuel will come out of the top where the lock screw was. I usually just back off the screw a bit and turn the 5/8 nut some gas will come out a bit, and watch those gaskets on the adjusting nut they dont last long. So what does that have to do with the clear sight glass?

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