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when is a torque strap necessary? #1162658 01/22/12 04:19 PM 01/22/12 04:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,743 central new york pettyblue440 OP master
pettyblue440 OP master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,743 central new york	what hp or et does a torque strap make a difference? carin question is a 450 hp b body with auto and stock tires. thanks, jon

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: pettyblue440] #1162659 01/22/12 04:56 PM 01/22/12 04:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,894 Florida Locomotion master
Locomotion master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,894 Florida	Basically, any time you put the pedal to the floor regardless of engine. OEM rubber eventually pounds out and the replacement rubber can only be worse. Depending on what k-member you have, poly spool mounts or Magnum Mounts (or something like that (sandwich style), would work well. But adding a strap is never a bad idea.

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: Locomotion] #1162660 01/22/12 09:45 PM 01/22/12 09:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,502 SOUTH JERSEY HEMIFRED master
HEMIFRED master Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,502 SOUTH JERSEY	moreso when it's as footbraker home of the Sox and Martin Hemi Duster

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: HEMIFRED] #1162661 01/22/12 10:25 PM 01/22/12 10:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 8,094 Sunnyvale, CA Jeepmon master
Jeepmon master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 8,094 Sunnyvale, CA	It my 73, which is just a little 500hp small block, we are constantly breaking the drivers side motor mount.. I would guess at least 1 per year with the amount we street drive and race... I've made a little torque strap using a hardware store turnbuckle set up and the motor mounts no longer breaks.. 73 Duster 360 stroker http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2594657

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: HEMIFRED] #1162662 01/22/12 10:31 PM 01/22/12 10:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,619 Almost Heaven B_Body_Bob Master of nothing
B_Body_Bob Master of nothing Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,619 Almost Heaven	Somebody around here told me to try a solid on the driver's side and rubber on the passenger that way the solid takes up the shock but the rubber keeps it from vibrating the whole car. Worked OK in the last street car I had set up that way. Everybody makes fun of a hillbilly until they need something fixed

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: B_Body_Bob] #1162663 01/22/12 10:59 PM 01/22/12 10:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,271 Vista, California 6 67Satty pro stock
67Satty pro stock 6 Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,271 Vista, California	I made my driver's side motor mount into a semi-solid but drilling through it and putting in some grade eight bolts and nuts. It can compress a little but it can't go the other way from engine torque. That's the idea anyway.

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: 67Satty] #1162664 01/22/12 11:14 PM 01/22/12 11:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 951 Temperance, MI P prochargedhemi super stock
prochargedhemi super stock P Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 951 Temperance, MI	i think a strap is always necessary whenever your not worried about the looks of the engine compartment. this is my design and its hidden pretty well by the battery and tray. now obviously it doesn't work with power steering but gives you an idea. I don't like mounting off the boss on the front of block as it "could" cause distortion in that cylinder, both of these cars have stock rubber mounts. been like this for 5-6 years now and no trouble here it is in my 68 b-body Last edited by prochargedhemi; 01/22/12 11:16 PM.

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: prochargedhemi] #1162665 01/22/12 11:27 PM 01/22/12 11:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,617 long island NY A Ari440 master
Ari440 master A Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,617 long island NY	Quote: i think a strap is always necessary whenever your not worried about the looks of the engine compartment. this is my design and its hidden pretty well by the battery and tray. now obviously it doesn't work with power steering but gives you an idea. I don't like mounting off the boss on the front of block as it "could" cause distortion in that cylinder, both of these cars have stock rubber mounts. been like this for 5-6 years now and no trouble here it is in my 68 b-body where can someone get a strap like that one ? very nice ! 1.39 9.85 - 137 mph

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: Ari440] #1162666 01/23/12 12:09 AM 01/23/12 12:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 951 Temperance, MI P prochargedhemi super stock
prochargedhemi super stock P Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 951 Temperance, MI	i made those ones. its pretty basic really. a couple heim ends, some aluminum bar stock/steel stock or tube, and 8 inches of 1/4x2 plate. obviously you will need someone to drill/tap the rods left and right hand to thread the heims into but other than that its DIY stuff

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: pettyblue440] #1162667 01/23/12 01:41 AM 01/23/12 01:41 AM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,021 NY B B1duster master
B1duster master B Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 3,021 NY	A piece of chain with a little slack from a motor mount block bolt to the K frame works great. Went 9s with rubber mounts.

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? DELETED [Re: prochargedhemi] #1162668 01/23/12 01:44 AM 01/23/12 01:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,205 New York polyspheric master
polyspheric master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,205 New York	Post deleted by polyspheric Boffin Emeritus

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: polyspheric] #1162669 01/23/12 12:50 PM 01/23/12 12:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 951 Temperance, MI P prochargedhemi super stock
prochargedhemi super stock P Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 951 Temperance, MI	Quote: Sorry, not trying to be Mr. Wizard here, but this needs to be said. The quality of the parts and the installation is not possible to evaluate from here, let's agree that they were well chosen and have held up well. What I find troubling is the position of the mounts. The only resistance it offers to forward and back motion is the angle built into the Heim joints - and they're not designed to take any thrust that way. If you had significant motion (another mount fails, etc.) the Heims would go out of range and fail. Vertical movement of the block is zero, since the 2 links form a triangle. If either link were removed, or both links mounted at different heights separately, the block could rise and fall with some side motion. It would resist rotation (torquing) but not efficiently. Side to side movement of the block is zero. If it tried to go right, the links are in tension - good, no harm. If it tries to go left, at least 1 link is in compression and will bend. The only block motion that is both controlled and safe now is an angle rotating the entire block around the fender mount. This is opposite the way the block will move under power. In short, the hardware is fine, but the relationships are not helping you. In order to resist engine rotation, the link must always be in tension (pulling down on the left side, or up on the right), never at 90� to the expected force. Its worked fine for my 790hp rig. Ive seen faster cars with less. if you don't like it don't use it, it was posted for an example.

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: polyspheric] #1162670 01/23/12 01:09 PM 01/23/12 01:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,080 organ M maximum entropy master
maximum entropy master M Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 5,080 organ	Quote: Sorry, not trying to be Mr. Wizard here, but this needs to be said. The quality of the parts and the installation is not possible to evaluate from here, let's agree that they were well chosen and have held up well. What I find troubling is the position of the mounts. The only resistance it offers to forward and back motion is the angle built into the Heim joints - and they're not designed to take any thrust that way. If you had significant motion (another mount fails, etc.) the Heims would go out of range and fail. Vertical movement of the block is zero, since the 2 links form a triangle. If either link were removed, or both links mounted at different heights separately, the block could rise and fall with some side motion. It would resist rotation (torquing) but not efficiently. Side to side movement of the block is zero. If it tried to go right, the links are in tension - good, no harm. If it tries to go left, at least 1 link is in compression and will bend. The only block motion that is both controlled and safe now is an angle rotating the entire block around the fender mount. This is opposite the way the block will move under power. In short, the hardware is fine, but the relationships are not helping you. In order to resist engine rotation, the link must always be in tension (pulling down on the left side, or up on the right), never at 90� to the expected force. you said what i was thinking. the rod should be tangential to the crank axis. i'm sure it works, but that doesn't make it optimal. i had a solid strap running down the the driver's side to the k member, rubber on the passenger side. it took me about a half an hour to fab up, and worked great. for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: maximum entropy] #1162671 01/23/12 01:27 PM 01/23/12 01:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,271 Vista, California 6 67Satty pro stock
67Satty pro stock 6 Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,271 Vista, California	Here's a link to making the rubber insulator into a semi-solid mount: http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=13216.0;all

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: 67Satty] #1162672 01/23/12 05:30 PM 01/23/12 05:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,502 SOUTH JERSEY HEMIFRED master
HEMIFRED master Joined: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,502 SOUTH JERSEY	for years only a chain was attached whick allow a certain degree of movement and luxury of the rubber mounts . when the motor starts to move to far the chain stops it all. that might be to simple for many here but it works 100% home of the Sox and Martin Hemi Duster

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: HEMIFRED] #1162673 01/23/12 08:19 PM 01/23/12 08:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 807 Toronto, Canada D dirtybee super stock
dirtybee super stock D Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 807 Toronto, Canada	that's what i use, a chain from my sway bar bracket to the boss on the front of the block, works great because you still have the 2 rubber mounts but there's no way the engine can break loose. that is a good point about the cylinder distortion though, i may change to the upper water pump bolt hole. cheap and easy and quite necessary on any 440 in my opinion. when i bought my 70 coronet in 2001 it had a really tired 440 AND a busted drivers side mount.

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: dirtybee] #1162674 01/24/12 01:48 AM 01/24/12 01:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,374 Rancho Cordova, CA Exit1965 master
Exit1965 master Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,374 Rancho Cordova, CA	I cut a chain link in half, welded it to the K member, then run a turnbuckle up to the block from there. Simple design, easy to do, cheap.

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: prochargedhemi] #1162675 01/24/12 02:13 AM 01/24/12 02:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,205 New York polyspheric master
polyspheric master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,205 New York	This is the point where I mention that whenever some expert (and he must be an expert - he's got 790 hp) takes a technical comment as a personal insult, my interest in assisting anyone goes down 1 notch. I've seen faster cars with less upside down, too. Boffin Emeritus

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: polyspheric] #1162676 01/24/12 07:34 AM 01/24/12 07:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 951 Temperance, MI P prochargedhemi super stock
prochargedhemi super stock P Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 951 Temperance, MI	Quote: This is the point where I mention that whenever some expert (and he must be an expert - he's got 790 hp) takes a technical comment as a personal insult, my interest in assisting anyone goes down 1 notch. I've seen faster cars with less upside down, too. i never claimed to be an expert. It worked for me, like i stated. It is shown for example, as stated. I didn't take it personally at first but by the looks of it you are trying to take it in that direction. Enjoy

Re: when is a torque strap necessary? [Re: prochargedhemi] #1162677 01/24/12 08:54 AM 01/24/12 08:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 592 Sullivan, Ohio M Max Wedge Savoy mopar
Max Wedge Savoy mopar M Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 592 Sullivan, Ohio	Why is everyone busting his sack?!?! He posted an example that has worked for him. As stated, if you don't like it, don't use it!

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