Re: when is a torque strap necessary?
[Re: Locomotion]
#1162660
01/22/12 09:45 PM
01/22/12 09:45 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,502 SOUTH JERSEY
HEMIFRED
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master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,502
SOUTH JERSEY
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moreso when it's as footbraker
home of the Sox and Martin Hemi Duster
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Re: when is a torque strap necessary?
[Re: HEMIFRED]
#1162662
01/22/12 10:31 PM
01/22/12 10:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,619 Almost Heaven
B_Body_Bob
Master of nothing
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Master of nothing
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,619
Almost Heaven
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Somebody around here told me to try a solid on the driver's side and rubber on the passenger that way the solid takes up the shock but the rubber keeps it from vibrating the whole car. Worked OK in the last street car I had set up that way.
Everybody makes fun of a hillbilly until they need something fixed
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Re: when is a torque strap necessary?
[Re: polyspheric]
#1162669
01/23/12 12:50 PM
01/23/12 12:50 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 951 Temperance, MI
prochargedhemi
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 951
Temperance, MI
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Quote:
Sorry, not trying to be Mr. Wizard here, but this needs to be said. The quality of the parts and the installation is not possible to evaluate from here, let's agree that they were well chosen and have held up well. What I find troubling is the position of the mounts. The only resistance it offers to forward and back motion is the angle built into the Heim joints - and they're not designed to take any thrust that way. If you had significant motion (another mount fails, etc.) the Heims would go out of range and fail. Vertical movement of the block is zero, since the 2 links form a triangle. If either link were removed, or both links mounted at different heights separately, the block could rise and fall with some side motion. It would resist rotation (torquing) but not efficiently. Side to side movement of the block is zero. If it tried to go right, the links are in tension - good, no harm. If it tries to go left, at least 1 link is in compression and will bend.
The only block motion that is both controlled and safe now is an angle rotating the entire block around the fender mount. This is opposite the way the block will move under power.
In short, the hardware is fine, but the relationships are not helping you. In order to resist engine rotation, the link must always be in tension (pulling down on the left side, or up on the right), never at 90° to the expected force.
Its worked fine for my 790hp rig. Ive seen faster cars with less. if you don't like it don't use it, it was posted for an example.
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Re: when is a torque strap necessary?
[Re: polyspheric]
#1162670
01/23/12 01:09 PM
01/23/12 01:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080 organ
maximum entropy
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
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Quote:
Sorry, not trying to be Mr. Wizard here, but this needs to be said. The quality of the parts and the installation is not possible to evaluate from here, let's agree that they were well chosen and have held up well. What I find troubling is the position of the mounts. The only resistance it offers to forward and back motion is the angle built into the Heim joints - and they're not designed to take any thrust that way. If you had significant motion (another mount fails, etc.) the Heims would go out of range and fail. Vertical movement of the block is zero, since the 2 links form a triangle. If either link were removed, or both links mounted at different heights separately, the block could rise and fall with some side motion. It would resist rotation (torquing) but not efficiently. Side to side movement of the block is zero. If it tried to go right, the links are in tension - good, no harm. If it tries to go left, at least 1 link is in compression and will bend.
The only block motion that is both controlled and safe now is an angle rotating the entire block around the fender mount. This is opposite the way the block will move under power.
In short, the hardware is fine, but the relationships are not helping you. In order to resist engine rotation, the link must always be in tension (pulling down on the left side, or up on the right), never at 90° to the expected force.
you said what i was thinking. the rod should be tangential to the crank axis. i'm sure it works, but that doesn't make it optimal. i had a solid strap running down the the driver's side to the k member, rubber on the passenger side. it took me about a half an hour to fab up, and worked great.
for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
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Re: when is a torque strap necessary?
[Re: 67Satty]
#1162672
01/23/12 05:30 PM
01/23/12 05:30 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,502 SOUTH JERSEY
HEMIFRED
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master
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,502
SOUTH JERSEY
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for years only a chain was attached whick allow a certain degree of movement and luxury of the rubber mounts . when the motor starts to move to far the chain stops it all.
that might be to simple for many here but it works 100%
home of the Sox and Martin Hemi Duster
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Re: when is a torque strap necessary?
[Re: prochargedhemi]
#1162675
01/24/12 02:13 AM
01/24/12 02:13 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205 New York
polyspheric
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,205
New York
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This is the point where I mention that whenever some expert (and he must be an expert - he's got 790 hp) takes a technical comment as a personal insult, my interest in assisting anyone goes down 1 notch.
I've seen faster cars with less upside down, too.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: when is a torque strap necessary?
[Re: polyspheric]
#1162676
01/24/12 07:34 AM
01/24/12 07:34 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 951 Temperance, MI
prochargedhemi
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 951
Temperance, MI
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Quote:
This is the point where I mention that whenever some expert (and he must be an expert - he's got 790 hp) takes a technical comment as a personal insult, my interest in assisting anyone goes down 1 notch.
I've seen faster cars with less upside down, too.
i never claimed to be an expert. It worked for me, like i stated. It is shown for example, as stated. I didn't take it personally at first but by the looks of it you are trying to take it in that direction. Enjoy
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Re: when is a torque strap necessary?
[Re: HEMIFRED]
#1162678
01/24/12 09:34 AM
01/24/12 09:34 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632 MD-USA
Dodgeguy101
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
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Quote:
for years only a chain was attached whick allow a certain degree of movement and luxury of the rubber mounts . when the motor starts to move to far the chain stops it all.
that might be to simple for many here but it works 100%
I have to agree, just a poor farm boy, but a chain and turnbuckle works.
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Re: when is a torque strap necessary?
[Re: HEMIFRED]
#1162679
01/28/12 04:07 AM
01/28/12 04:07 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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Quote:
for years only a chain was attached whick allow a certain degree of movement and luxury of the rubber mounts . when the motor starts to move to far the chain stops it all.
that might be to simple for many here but it works 100%
Quote:
I cut a chain link in half, welded it to the K member, then run a turnbuckle up to the block from there. Simple design, easy to do, cheap.
any pics?
Last edited by dangina; 01/28/12 04:09 AM.
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Re: when is a torque strap necessary?
[Re: dangina]
#1162680
01/28/12 10:29 AM
01/28/12 10:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,018 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,018
Tulsa OK
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I used to run a chain on mine. Now I just welded up a stock mount. I am thinking of going back to tHe chain though. Any concern with running it to an aluminum head?(that's why I switched)
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: when is a torque strap necessary?
[Re: dangina]
#1162682
01/28/12 03:00 PM
01/28/12 03:00 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,374 Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,374
Rancho Cordova, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
for years only a chain was attached whick allow a certain degree of movement and luxury of the rubber mounts . when the motor starts to move to far the chain stops it all.
that might be to simple for many here but it works 100%
Quote:
I cut a chain link in half, welded it to the K member, then run a turnbuckle up to the block from there. Simple design, easy to do, cheap.
any pics?
Good thing you asked for pics. Turns out I later welded an "ear" to the side of the motor mount tower on the Kmember. The cut chain is still welded there (there is a zip tie holding some cooler lines) but I see that I didn't like the fact that it was forward of the point where the turnbuckle mounted to the engine.
So the ear on the side of the motor mount tower makes more of a straight line to the motor and that's what I use.
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Re: when is a torque strap necessary?
[Re: Bad340fish]
#1162683
01/28/12 03:34 PM
01/28/12 03:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 587 IL . usa
cjs69mope
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 587
IL . usa
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I prefer to use a moroso solid on the drivers side only. But my car is a 4speed and i don't want the risk of blowing out a clutch linkage during a power shift run. Also i drill out the hole for the long bolt to run a hardware store 5/8 x 4" long bolt because that is the size of the k frame hole and i want zero movement i have seen engines move up on the k and stay crooked even though the bolt was tight . Works great and the vibration is not bad even driving on the street .
1969 Dodge Charger
1969 Dodge Superbee
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