how bigger was the spark ?

Did you have doors open ? trunk ? IGN switch in some position diff than OFF ?

do you have clock ? time delay flasher ?

if anything of that, mostly sure will spark, yes. bigger as far more equippment working

RE: MSD wires
The large red wire that is hooked directly to the battery is where the power for the MSD (charging the capacitor) comes from. As the capacitor charges basedd upon its discharge inot the coil it should be charging at 4 X rpm frequency which should be a lot faster than you can see.
The small red wire hooked to the ignition switch turns the box on or off. Current flow through this wire should be minimal.
R.

I recieved my warranty Powermaster alternator. It is another 75a unit that shows as a 60a idle and a 99a total on the performance card.
I had my battery tested today and it checked 100% on life, so it is good.
I have a new AC Delco voltage regulator just in case the alternator does not fix the issue.
If this does not fix the ammeter/battery voltage fluctuation issue, then I might have to look into getting the MSD box reaplaced or looked at. I asked MSD if their box can create this ammeter/voltage issue and they said no. But I might look into a second opinion.

Thanks to all and I will test the alternator in the next couple of days when the weather allows.

I received a PM from another member (thanks D B) that gave me the name of a company that works with MSD ignitions. I emailed their company with my current issue. They in return asked if I was running the BIG RED wire directly to the "+" battery post. He said that if I am running it thru a fuse from the battery post, then he has seen similar voltage issues.
Guess what? I am running a 40a fuse off of my starter solenoid (this replaced my original fusable link) and this BIG RED wire is connected at that fuse. This is also where my feed line connection is for my battery voltage guage inside of the car that is showing the 13-15v fluctuation. This is the same connection that my parallel bulkhead bypass wire is connected that leads to my ammeter. Both of these gauges are showing the fluctuation and I wired the BIG RED wire to that same connection.
(vendors description of why not to use a fuse: ""feedback produced by how the box draws current from the system, with a fuse inline this causes an oscillating effect that can drive you crazy trying to find"")
He said that it is a big no-no to run this BIG RED wire off of a fuse. I assumed that since the feed line for this fuse was fed from the starter solenoid which is fed from the main post on the battery, that it would have been fine for the MSD. I know that the instructions say to run directly to the battery post, which I did on the initial install. But to make the wiring look a little cleaner, I changed the connection point of this wire to mount at my main 40a breaker. My mistake!!
(But if I remember correctly, I tested the BIG RED wire on the "+" battery clamp and it did not make a difference. This is why I moved the wire back to my 40a fuse because it looked cleaner.)

I am going to stop by the parts store and pickup a battery cable that connects to the side post terminal with a small red wire attached. I will change this connection so the BIG RED wire connects directly to the "+ SIDE POST" on my battery. This way there is nothing else at that positive battery connection except for the MSD BIG RED wire. Then I will start it up and see what happens. With this change plus the new alternator, I sure hope to see a difference with my ammeter and battery voltage. I should be able to test it this weekend.

interesting

Techwest Racing is the company and they rebuild/modify MSD ignitions systems.
They appear to really know the MSD ignition systems. Checkout their websight, there is allot of info on there.
http://techwestracing.com/

Thanks again to D B for giving me the above info to share with the group.

Update:
New alternator, moved the MSD Heavy Red wire to the side terminal on the battery. Started up the car and I still have the ammeter and the battery voltage gage fluctuating. The ammeter is bouncing even more than before. It is now dipping down into the "-" side about half way and then pegging out on the "+" side at idle. At high idle, the fluctuating guages are a little better, then when the rpms come up to 1500, the gages are fairly steady.
During high idle, I put my hand held volt meter on the battery and it read 15.1/15.2 (cold start, cranked it a few times, battery was not 100%). Then I brought the engine rpms down to idle and the battery still read 15.1/15.2 volts.
**The battery voltage is steady at idle and high idle.**
So while the ammeter and the battery voltage gage inside of the car are fluctuating badly at idle and medium at high idle, the battery still showed the same reading with my volt meter.
Why did does the battery show a solid reading when using a volt meter but the voltage gage inside of the car is fluctuating from 13-16v at idle rpms. Is my voltage gauge going out on me?

Note: The ammeter and the battery voltage are now fluctuating even worse (more rapidily) then before the alternator swap and the MSD wiring swap.
Note: Both the ammeter and the battery voltage gage are both hooked up to the same 40a fuse that is fed from the starter solenoid. This connection showed the same 15.1/15.2 voltage that the battery showed during idle and high idle. (This ammeter connection is the positive "parallel bypass" wire)

Do I test my next new voltage regulator? I am thinking that the current one is fine since the battery is showing 15.1/15.2 after cold startup and with a cold battery.

Something is screwing with my ammeter/inside battery voltage gage, but I am not sure what. Since they are both hooked up at the same 40a fuse, I am wondering if the volt gauge may be going faulty. Since I measure both sides of this fuse and they both read battery voltage, then the 40a fuse seems to be good. I am thinking of tracing the wires from the inside voltage guage to make sure nothing else is hooked up to it. Then if not, I might just remove the power going to this gauge to see if the ammeter still acts up.

My headlights did not dim at idle or high idle and the ammeter/voltage guage did not change while turning on/off the headlights. My dash lights fluctuated just slightly, but barely noticeable. They are much brighter after the alternator swap.

Bad voltage guage inside of car? Faulty wiring inside of car? Try new VR? Bad ground?

Any suggestions?

Thanks a bunch!!

so what does the voltage read inside with the meter you used on the battery? Fluctuating, or not?

and it still sounds like the voltage sensing wire to the alternator is reading a volt lower than what the battery is seeing to drive the charge voltage up to 15

Might be a stretch to do but I'd take off the MSD & sub in the regular OE stuff & see if it's an MSD prob or how the system is reacting to the MSD stuff. Might also first unhook all charging system wires & jumper each system (including grounds) as I mentioned earlier to see if it's a wiring prob. Might lose that fuse also. we gotta back way up on this one I'm WAG ing here but that's what I'd do to get some progress tho you are working hard at solving this

yeah that wouldn't make sense for the fuse to be doing it but I'd toss it all for a fresh start

The inside voltage guage was showing 13-16 volts (fluctuating real fast) while the hand held unit connected at the battery was showing 15.10 to 15.22 fairly slowly within that range.
Should I try the new voltage regulator?

I don't understand why one voltage gauge shows the 13-16 while the direct battery shows constant 15.1-15.2 at the same time unless the inside voltage gauge is going bad.

Robert,
My backup ECU is at FBO being rebuilt. I sure hope that the MSD is not causing this.

I could remove the fuse but both studs showed the same 15.1-15.2 which was the same as the battery voltage.

Thanks for the replies.

If you inside gauge is analog (has a needle) and your hand held is digital (numbers) then the hand held will not react fast enough to fluctuate like the gauge.

You should always take an electrical load off the alternator output stud, not the battery post.

I'll bet your MSD is making hr gauge jump around as it's a heavy draw that is constantly turning on and off.

Super,
You are correct. My inside gauge that is hooked up to show the battery voltage is a "cheapo" gauge with a needle. My hand held unit is a one month old digital.
Does this mean that I should upgrade my inside voltage gauge to a digital unit?
I could try using the hand held digital unit inside of the car and hook it up to the existing voltage gauge to see what that 13-16 fluctuating reading smooths out to on my hand held unit.

That would be nice if this is just an issue with my cheap needle gauge. But then my ammeter would always be fluctuating, and this MSD5 unit is only supposed to pull .7a at idle.
Or, would the digital voltage guage "dampen" what the ammeter is reading since they are both connected to the same 12v feed?

I currently have an email in to Techwest Racing to see if they can give me a way to test the MSD5 unit on my car to rule that box out as a possible issue or not.

If 15.1-15.2 at the battery is too much, then is there anything else besides the VR that could make it charge this high? I have a new AC Delco voltage regulator waiting to go on if needed. My current VR is an Echlin unit and the previous one was the same model number. Both Echlin units made the same reading on the inside voltage gauge.

Thanks for the reply.

Y07_A66:

The analog gauge may show fluctuations that the digital gauge does not, depending on how the digital gauge is making its measurement. For giggles, you could connect your digital gauge probe to the same wire going to the analog gauge.

What is the rate of fluctuation of the ammeter? Does the gauge spend about the same amount of time in either position, or does it spend more time in one of the two positions?

Is the behavior of the ammeter fluctuation similar to sound of the turn signal flasher? If you want to try a wild experiment, remove both flashers (turn signal and emergency) and disconnect the black wire from the back of your temperature gauge and see if the problem still persists.

This is a wild guess but to me it sounds that there is a high resistance short on a voltage wire that turns on and off (hence the change in current draw seen on the ammeter). I believe there are 3 such things in your dash: your 2 flashers and the voltage "regulator" for the instrument panel. Granted, the flashers should not typically be energized, but let's be cautious.

Dave

""What is the rate of fluctuation of the ammeter?""

The ammeter needle moves fast from one side to the other. It is constantly moving fast and it slows down as the rpms come up into the mid teens.
It does not match a turn signal pattern, it just fluctuates thru about 70% of the ammeter range, quickly.
I will turn on the turn signals and the emergency flashers to see how they act. All of the dash gauges work and act normal.

Thanks for your response

""I bet the blue wire at the alternator is .6-.7v lower than the battery voltage, causing the regulator to pump the voltage that much higher. This is caused by the resistance in the connections between the battery and the blue wire (bulkhead, etc).""

I have already had to bypass the blue wire around the bulkhead last year. I will try and trace the blue wire and ispect the connections.

""You can measure this difference, and if you jump the battery + directly to the blue wire at the alternator, you should go back to 14.5ish at the battery.""

Do you mean to "disconnect" the blue wire at the alternator, or add an additional wire from the same alternator blue field wire over to the "+" battery cable and start the engine?
Then measure the voltage again at the battery and at the alternator to see if they match? If they match and if the battery voltage is now lower, then the blue wire connections is the issue?

Thanks for your reply.
It will be a few days before I can get back on this but I will add this to my hit list.