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Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: #113864
09/02/08 03:29 AM
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Big-Mike Offline OP
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Help Please! I have a 440 stroker(496) It has 10:1 with 193lbs cranking pressure.18inches vacuum @ 800rpm. Comp-Cams 294solid 248@050 Lift 0.560 with 1:6 Rockers.Installed straight-up.Was using Weiand Xcelerator 7512 Single-Plane Manifold.650 D/P Holley. Were using Hughes Engines Heads,Stage 2 452's Factory Iron. Now running Stealth/440 Source which have same pressure & revability. 6800 in 1st & 2nd on 4-Speed New-Process with 2:75 Gears out back. Car wit me weighs 3960lbs & runs 12:00-12:25@117-118mph in the 1/4 mile.
I have a Six-Pac set-up with Fuel Technologies Metering Plates.
Something is wrong, it does not like to pull much passed 6000rpm. 64 jets centre,10:5 Power-Valve;
84 jets for end carbs. Accelerationion seems considerably less than 650 as well.
Any ideas, especially from someone with similar set-up or thoses in the know.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: Big-Mike] #113865
09/02/08 03:51 AM
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A 650cfm carb spins that 496ci engine 6800 rpm.. Pretty amazing considering an engine is basically a air pump & at 6800 rpm it wants to move 975 cfm of air that thing ought to really wake up with a Sixpack...

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #113866
09/02/08 05:11 AM
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Yeah! i realise this. Had it on a chasis dyno & the 650 was only down 13 HP on an 850 D/P.
Actually, its the 850 i use to produce those 1/4 mile times, but that 650 is a real side-winder as well. Pulls best to about 6100-6200, but just holding, it still goes pretty hard out to 6800.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: Big-Mike] #113867
09/02/08 08:12 AM
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I was curious about the horsepower your motor is putting out. My 493 inch sixpack motor has it's horsepower peak down at around 5500 rpm and runs out of cam at just past 6000 rpm, but it sure does run good at and below those numbers.


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: jbc426] #113868
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Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: jbc426] #113869
09/02/08 01:38 PM
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Hi! Just got outa bed. Umm! Horse-power was 418 RWHP with 850 @ just over 5800. Can't remember the exact revs, but the torque from down low just climbed straight up compared to the 650. I usually shift at about 6-6100, but it still pulls pretty good out to 6800.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: Big-Mike] #113870
09/02/08 03:08 PM
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That sounds pretty healthy. How much does that work out to at the flywheel?


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: jbc426] #113871
09/02/08 03:16 PM
09/02/08 03:16 PM

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Hey, another Big Mike

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: #113872
09/02/08 05:32 PM
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Nahh! I'm Bigger; you see, i have a - between my names.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: jbc426] #113873
09/02/08 05:36 PM
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Gidday! Probably about 530 at flywheel, but who cares; its what hits the road that shifts [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean].
A bigger cam would definately make it a lot quicker, but then my fuel consumption would go through the roof.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: Big-Mike] #113874
09/02/08 05:45 PM
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Beat this! I just put my weight & terminal speed into the Horse-Power calculator in the tech archives, & it says i make 508 HP at the wheels.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: Big-Mike] #113875
09/02/08 05:46 PM
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Running out of fuel? Do you have an electric fuel pump?


[img]http://www.imgur.com/hxlGUJt.gif[/img]
4-speed
3:54 Dana
13.01 @107.93 with street tires (not hooking up)
Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: Big-Mike] #113876
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Quote:

Beat this! I just put my weight & terminal speed into the Horse-Power calculator in the tech archives, & it says i make 508 HP at the wheels.



Those are some good numbers. With a 17% driveline loss, that comes out to 594 horsepower at the flywheel! I bet it sounds great when your on that chassis dyno. I would give you my jet sizes, but they would probably be a little on the rich side. When they were dynoing my motor, they kept putting bigger and bigger jets in and the horsepower kept going up until it got to that happy spot. Mine doesn't rev up like yours either, and the horsepower begins to drop off after 5500 rpm.


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: jbc426] #113877
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Quote:

Those are some good numbers. With a 17% driveline loss, that comes out to 594 horsepower at the flywheel!




With those kind of numbers you should be dipping into the 11s.


[img]http://www.imgur.com/hxlGUJt.gif[/img]
4-speed
3:54 Dana
13.01 @107.93 with street tires (not hooking up)
Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: Big-Mike] #113878
09/02/08 07:56 PM
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Quote:

6800 in 1st & 2nd on 4-Speed New-Process with 2:75 Gears out back. Car wit me weighs 3960lbs & runs 12:00-12:25@117-118mph in the 1/4 mile.



Are you saying you're running low 12's only using first and second gear with those 2.75 rearend gears????


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: jbc426] #113879
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Thanks for the chat guys. I only occassionally wind it into the 6800 area if I wanna screw up Boy-Racers (Brains) in their Jappa's by takin the odd one for a ride.
At the drags, i am some-what into 3rd gear,maybe half-way. It would be well in the 11's, but this is a car i can just loaf around in,&,once moving at 10mph will blow the socks off most comers.
Quite happy with tall gears, afterall, low gearing only has the punch in that first instant.
In low, with full tank of juice & 60ft of 5/8th chain in the boot,& the 850 on, she'll srew sideways every time even if i accelerate smoothly & then at say 50-60mph push that lasy third of throttle. Tires are 255x45x17 ZR-Sumitomo's.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: Big-Mike] #113880
09/02/08 11:33 PM
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Oh Yes! Forgot to answer the fuel-pump question.
Yes, its a Mallory 140 with 3/8th pipe.
I also have 1-7/8th headers, all mandrel bends.
As for the sound,at the drags everyone raves about how damn crisp & strong it sounds.
Lots of people come & tell me its the best sounding car there. I sit on 7000-7200 doing my burn-out for them.

4660017-22-08-08001.jpg (47 downloads)
Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: jbc426] #113881
09/02/08 11:47 PM
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If your running 12.0's with a 2.76 rear, you have nothing to complain about!
Why rev the engine over 6K if it does not do anything for performance?
With a single 4 setup, a Holley HP 950 has made huge differences over 750 and 850's with the strokers I have been involved with!
IMO, you picked a pretty good all round cam for a street car, I have never seen one with that much vac at idle, wish mine did.
From all accounts, the Stealth heads run pretty close out of the box to the Eddy heads, and they dont flow enough for your combo to make max hp and probably why it does not make any more power
over 6k. If you shifted around 5800 you would probably run better times at the track.
Here is my combo for an all around street car.
493 stroker, 10.54-1 comp. Comp custom solid from Dwayne Porter, Porter racing heads. Specs off top of my head, 254/258@50, .582/.597 on 108*.
Out of the box Eddy's with Isky 8005a springs. Hooker S/C 2" headers with 3" full(quiet) exhaust.
Torqueflite trans with Dynamic tight 10" 3600 stall converter. Factory 6 pack, cold intake, staggered jetting on ends with QFT jet plates 78/84, center carb 65 mains, I believe I drilled the accel pump nozzles to .035 and used the red accel pump cam in the #2 position, stock 30 cc. pump. My vac in gear at idle was around 7" and I ran a 3.5 power valve. I am also at sea level. 69 RR with a/c and a 6 point bar, 4120 lbs w/driver.Dana 60 w/3.54 gears Best run through mufflers on 30" tall slicks, 11.48@117, average times through the muffs on Goodyear Eagle GT 2 street tires, 11.78@115, 60 ft. in the 1.80 range, but on a well prepped track, 1.74 was common. Best et's were found to be with a shift point of 5800 rpm. My cam was a little big, but when Dwayne spec'd it out, I was planning on having the heads ported which I have since done. Unfortunately, I had a garage fire that burned up both of my Mopars and the whole shop before I had a chance to run the new heads. I won't know until next spring how everything will do when I put the new car togeather, but I think it is safe to say you could benefit greatly from some proffesional porting on your heads. Also be sure you have a good fuel pump so you don't run out of fuel on the big end. With your mph, no doubt you have all the potential for low to mid 11's in street trim, a bit more gear would sure help. Hope this helps!

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: Lee446] #113882
09/03/08 12:07 AM
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Hey! Thanks for the info. I have played around short-shifting gears etc: & where i am is the fastest & most consistant i can do. I do tend to win most races, but i'm only there to have a bit of fun & 'cos people love wathing my car.
Anyway, this jetting; which sides do the 78's go in?
I won't bother porting these heads as i have some Indy SR's sitting there as well, but just can't be bothered at the moment building another set of headers. I'll get round to it before Xmas though.
Any other suggestions would be much appreciated.
I'm 52 & been running worked 440's since '87 & have good understanding mechanically & do all my own work;susspension;brakes;diff;gear-boxes etc:
I use to be an incredibly hard road-driver, but they would jail me if they caught me today; now i just have memories of what use to be.
Yee! Harrr!

4660091-DSC00232.JPG (40 downloads)
Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: Lee446] #113883
09/03/08 12:24 AM
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I'm so Sorry as well for the bereavement of two Mopars. Bet that was like a death in the family.
Trouble is; its not just the money, but all the work you put in, & then its also two more beloved "MOpars" (tears).
Mike.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: Big-Mike] #113884
09/03/08 12:59 AM
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I am running 4.5 power valve, 65 jets in center, and 78s on the passenger side on outboards with 83s on drivers side. I am also using Promax metering plate for the center and the jettable plates for the outboards.

4660194-100_1633.JPG (45 downloads)

[img]http://www.imgur.com/hxlGUJt.gif[/img]
4-speed
3:54 Dana
13.01 @107.93 with street tires (not hooking up)
Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: 70sixpkrt] #113885
09/03/08 01:39 AM
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Thanks for that.
I guess, since staggered jetting seems to be the norm; there must be a fuel distribution problem in manifold.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: Big-Mike] #113886
09/03/08 12:17 PM
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I'll have to check my 4 corner jet notes:
Don't remember a stagger.
dyno'ed 650lb-ft around 3800
tops about 5400

H beam
forged Ross
Edel heads
1.75 header-> 3" X
.5" lift custom cam
700+ rpm idle
493->11" centerforce->Hemi 4 spd->742 8.75 3.55
(Plans on a 3.54 Dana)

If you want info let me know, I'd have to get it.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: limelight440] #113887
09/03/08 01:35 PM
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Quote:


dyno'ed 650lb-ft around 3800
tops about 5400





Those are some impressive numbers! Where did the horsepower come in at?


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: limelight440] #113888
09/03/08 05:55 PM
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Limelight440. Michael, please give me what you can in settings. Even the cam specs,if your open to sharing as i don't mind buying another cam for improvement.
650ft lbs is mighty fine bum shifting grunt.
I would really love to get this Six-Pac going, so all info would be gladly appreciated!
Regards, Mike.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: Big-Mike] #113889
09/03/08 09:49 PM
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If you're interested in power a little lower in the rpm range (681hp@5500RPM & 685TQ @ 4500rpm), I'd be happy to share my cam specs with you. Use even a bigger cam the numbers would only go up from there, but at the expense of some low end...


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: jbc426] #113890
09/04/08 12:41 AM
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Michael; I have emailed your Yahoo account. Thanks for the generosity.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: Big-Mike] #113891
09/04/08 07:51 AM
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I will have to get my notes, I will post tonite.

I must correct my self minorly, as I looked at
my dyno numbers again:

643lb-ft was @ 4000
548hp was @ 5100 but only hicups 10hp to 5550

This is an excel chart that I made from
the dyno print out numbers. Unfortunately the full run
was lost but I do have the print out from the out-boards opening (2800ish) on.

4662852-493.pdf (136 downloads)
Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting et [Re: limelight440] #113892
09/04/08 08:12 AM
09/04/08 08:12 AM

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post the jetting if you get a chance.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: limelight440] #113893
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Michael; this is so good of You! Thank You so much. I don't know if you received my personal email; i was asking for your cam specs if you have them available. Also; what state are your heads; Std: or some,to major port/bowl work.
My email is big-mike@xtra.co.nz if you wish to keep specs quite.
Also, anyone who wishes to write direct, this is fine by me. Welcome the chat.
Regards, Mike.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: Big-Mike] #113894
09/04/08 08:53 PM
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2x 62 & 4x 93

Edelbrocks are standars 84cc (no dress work)
compression I'm told ended up 10.3:1
although I thought it would have been a little higher. I keep meaning to do a hot crank over.

Cam is from Cam Techniques of Sarasota Florida 941 727 5552
int & exh lift are .504 at valve
304deg (240@ .050")
104deg intake centerline installed 4 deg advanced
I can give the Cam Techniques Grind Number to order if you want it.

Mike:
I dont' know what my email is listed as, but rest assure
you can find me at chesna.mi@neu.edu

Mike

Last edited by limelight440; 09/04/08 08:59 PM.
Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: limelight440] #113895
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Mike.
Have sent email with car pics.
Hope you receive. Thanks for massive help.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting et [Re: Big-Mike] #113896
09/04/08 11:42 PM
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4 93's are stout....

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting et #113897
09/05/08 12:30 AM
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Quote:

4 93's are stout....




WOW!!! You ain't kiddin!!!

I thought my # 86's were a tad on the heavy side.
Maybe he means .093"....or about a 82 jet.

That's a LOT of fuel!!!

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting et [Re: superwrench] #113898
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Quote:

65 jets in center, and 78s on the passenger side on outboards with 83s on drivers side




Not to hijack thread but I just pulled my plugs and I am running rich. What do you guys recommend for a 446" with aluminum manifold and Eddy heads?

Last edited by 70sixpkRT; 09/05/08 12:36 AM.

[img]http://www.imgur.com/hxlGUJt.gif[/img]
4-speed
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13.01 @107.93 with street tires (not hooking up)
Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting et [Re: 70sixpkrt] #113899
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Hi there guys!
No! Your not high-jacking; everyone's comments are welcome.
I suspect SuperWrench is about right. I remember Steve Dulcich doing the manifold test & with the Six-Pac found #84's wre doing the bussiness.
Whats screwing me up is, I jetted with these numbers & #63 centre carb & have the 2ndries opening early, but not bogging, & then i took this set-up off & put the 650-D/P with Weiand Xcelerator on & instantly had more pull & more revs as well.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting et [Re: Big-Mike] #113900
09/05/08 12:50 AM
09/05/08 12:50 AM
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70sixpkrt Offline
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Quote:

then i took this set-up off & put the 650-D/P with Weiand Xcelerator on & instantly had more pull & more revs as well




I was told that the sixpack manifolds are really restrictive.


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4-speed
3:54 Dana
13.01 @107.93 with street tires (not hooking up)
Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting et [Re: Big-Mike] #113901
09/05/08 12:51 AM
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Big-Mike Offline OP
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Hey, Super Gas; I would try #78's on both sides.
I'm gunna borrow a friends "Inovator Gas Analizer" & do some hard acceleration & just see exactly where the mixture is.
Probably a week before i get the time though.
Will post my findings when i do this.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting et [Re: Big-Mike] #113902
09/05/08 12:52 AM
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That is exactly what i thought when i changed manifolds.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting et [Re: 70sixpkrt] #113903
09/05/08 04:38 PM
09/05/08 04:38 PM
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Quote:

I was told that the sixpack manifolds are really restrictive.




It's simply not true. There is room for considerable improvement, and I had mine improved at Hughes Engines getting nearly 700 hp out of my 493" motor with a hydraulic cam!! Thanks to their deep porting work, I have great lowend and some considerable topend performance out of my sixpack. I understand they've gotten even better with them since then!!!

(This from Hughes Engine's Website:

Stock average 302.2 CFM

Stock scatter 272-331 CFM 59 CFM spread

Modified average 332.6 CFM

Modified scatter 306-366 CFM 60 CFM spread

STAGE 2
Average 346 CFM (44CFM more than stock)
Scatter 315-374 CFM (59CFM spread)

Notes: We work on a lot of Big Block 6-pack intakes. They are probably one of our more popular ones to modify. The #1 and #4 ports are hard to improve much and without them in the mix, the modified average goes from 332.6 CFM to 342.5 CFM and the modified scatter goes from 326 CFM to 366 CFM. These are serious numbers for big block intake manifolds, especially ones that can pass for “stock”. Expect this manifold to get more flow improvement as time passes. We have dynoed a hydraulic cammed 493 cu in with stage 1 version at nearly 700HP."

Yes, there are better manifolds for more top end, but I don't think the sixpack manifolds can be considered restrictive.


1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting et [Re: jbc426] #113904
09/05/08 05:04 PM
09/05/08 05:04 PM
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Rollin Hand Offline
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Is that Inovator Gas Analizer sold by Billy Mays.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: Big-Mike] #113905
09/05/08 07:48 PM
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BSB67 Offline
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We've run two 500 cu in engines w/ the six pac set-ups both a little under 600hp. One used 69 center w/87s outboard, the other 66 center and low 80's ouboard.

I would guess that if you used 64s and 84s you're not to far off, and the not pulling past 6000 might be from something other than jetting.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: BSB67] #113906
09/06/08 06:12 AM
09/06/08 06:12 AM
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Right! 1st one, the Analizer,have'nt a clue;but it is instant & broard in readings.
The Hughes Engine site column; funny, i just come to here from reading that very item. [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean]! does that mean i have to send my manifold all the way there & back.
BBS67, thanks for the coments there. I have all Brand-New Six-Pac,so i guess i better go a huntin!
I may just bite the bullitt & get 1 of Hughes Manifolds as the cost versus the next 20 yrs i hope to still have the car tells me to forget cost & just get whatever it takes to make some serious grunt, but still streetable.
Thanks Guys!
Mike.

Re: Six-Pac Stroker. Info for Set-Up Needed. Jetting etc: [Re: Big-Mike] #113907
09/07/08 01:44 PM
09/07/08 01:44 PM
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I just pulled #7 and #8 plug since those were the easy ones. I am running rich. I have 78 on the passenger side and 83 on the drivers side. What number should I go with? I am using NGK-BCP6ES plugs gapped to .45. It is timed at 14 initial and 35 total. I am running aluminum manifold with blocked heat cross over.

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Last edited by 70sixpkRT; 09/07/08 03:06 PM.

[img]http://www.imgur.com/hxlGUJt.gif[/img]
4-speed
3:54 Dana
13.01 @107.93 with street tires (not hooking up)
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