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48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks #1116446
11/18/11 11:50 PM
11/18/11 11:50 PM
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For those of you that have been thinking I'm a little nuts, I'm going to prove I am.
Please understand, if your looking for perfection, your not going to find it here. I've got more time then money, non-safety related short cuts have been taken. We are dealing with a rust bucket that probably should have been scrapped, but some fool decided to build it. Follow along for your amusement. Hold your concern, I've actually done this before.

The story: I have built, or more like, assembled a collection of parts to make a vehicle that safely drives down the road, about a dozen vehicles over the past 25 or so years. These are fun to drive, look good from 10 feet away, drivers. The kind where you just jump in and drive someplace without worrying about if its going to rain, or even snow.

What got me started in this hobby was events from my childhood. There is a 1/2 mile dirt track in our home town. Back in the mid 60s, they used to race the 30s & 40s coupes. The images of those old cars racing around that track burned into my 10 year old mind. As I'm aging and my physical condition isn't as good as it used to be, I'm facing questions about how many more cars I'm going to be able to build. I want to point out, my wife of 35 years was with my all along the way.
Several years ago, I bought a 90 Dakota for parts, intending on building a rod. One thing led to another and I ended up driving that Dakota for a few years. After a few years of service, the clutch went out and the Dakota returned to a parts supplier. One day it occurred to me I could use the Dakota frame as a base for a street version of one of those old race cars still visible in my mind. The thought was to use as much of the Dakota as possible, install a 4 point roll cage for safety, and throw an old coupe body over the thing, kind of like an old model kit. It would be cheap, reliable (the Dakota was) and would be fun to drive for a while.
With a plan in mind, the search was on for an acceptable body to cover a chassis. The perimeters were pretty simple, it had to be pre 55, of the Mopar family, and cheap, the cheaper, the better. After a few months, I located a 48 Plymouth business coupe. The guy that was selling it made sure I knew it was in bad shape, but it fit the perimeters, and it was only about 50 miles from home! My wife and I went and looked at it. We both knew the plan, and it fit the plan. The guy told me he could get $200 for it as scrap, or he would sell it to me for that same $200. That was a Sunday afternoon. I mad arrangements to borrow a trailer and went back and picked the car up Thursday night. That was in April, 2010.

I've got pictures, it going to be a pita to load them 1 at a time. This picture is of the car where it was sitting when I bought it.

6926049-48coupe001.jpg (592 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116447
11/19/11 12:09 AM
11/19/11 12:09 AM
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I've bought several cars through the years, and loading "field cars" has always been a pain in the tail. This one looked like it was going to be one of the worst, but this guy had equipment. He opened his shop door and drove out one of the biggest Bobcats I've ever seen, and it had long forks on it. They (him & his son) moved a few obstacles in the way and picked the front end of the car and drug it to the blacktop. Once on the blacktop driveway, they put skates under the front, went around the rear and lifted it then rolled it to the position he wanted it in. Then he opened the other shop door and got out the boom truck (the guy is a well digger) and put a chain around the motor. The boom truck could lift the front, and the bobcat could lift the rear. When he got it high enough, I backed the trailer under the car. I paid him, we tied the car on the trailer and i was on my way home, all in 45 minutes.

Picture: loading the car.

6926067-48coupe004.jpg (432 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116448
11/19/11 12:10 AM
11/19/11 12:10 AM
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Freeport IL USA
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Still loading.

6926070-48coupe005.jpg (400 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116449
11/19/11 12:11 AM
11/19/11 12:11 AM
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still loading 2

6926072-48coupe006.jpg (345 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116450
11/19/11 12:13 AM
11/19/11 12:13 AM
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Freeport IL USA
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That's me in the jean coat with white sleeves.

6926074-48coupe007.jpg (410 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116451
11/19/11 12:14 AM
11/19/11 12:14 AM
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Freeport IL USA
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Sure, the picture I put about the jean jacked doesn't have me in it.....

6926077-48coupe008.jpg (344 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116452
11/19/11 12:16 AM
11/19/11 12:16 AM
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Were getting closer.

6926079-48coupe010.jpg (372 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116453
11/19/11 12:17 AM
11/19/11 12:17 AM
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Freeport IL USA
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still loading it

6926081-48coupe012.jpg (369 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116454
11/19/11 12:18 AM
11/19/11 12:18 AM
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Did you notice in the last picture the bottom 6" of the door and quarter are cut off?

6926083-48coupe013.jpg (365 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116455
11/19/11 12:20 AM
11/19/11 12:20 AM
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Sitting on the trailer, chained down, ready to leave.

6926087-48coupe015.jpg (343 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116456
11/19/11 12:31 AM
11/19/11 12:31 AM
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These next few pictures are after I got it home. You can easily see what shape the car was really in. This is what a $200 48 Plymouth looks like that has been in the Midwest all of its life. It has sat outside in a forest, a field and along that fence for the past 40 years, at least. Any flat surface where water could sit was rotted out, and any place critters could build a nest was rotted out.

6926107-48coupe002.jpg (355 downloads)
Last edited by poorboy; 11/19/11 12:33 AM.
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116457
11/19/11 12:35 AM
11/19/11 12:35 AM
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More

6926115-48coupe0003.jpg (301 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116458
11/19/11 12:36 AM
11/19/11 12:36 AM
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wait, it gets better....

6926118-48coupe0009.jpg (337 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116459
11/19/11 12:37 AM
11/19/11 12:37 AM
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How about some rockers?

6926120-48coupe0014.jpg (337 downloads)
Last edited by poorboy; 11/19/11 12:39 AM.
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116460
11/19/11 12:39 AM
11/19/11 12:39 AM
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Body mounts are over rated anyway.

6926122-48coupe0015.jpg (323 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116461
11/19/11 12:40 AM
11/19/11 12:40 AM
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You get the idea.

6926124-48coupe0017.jpg (305 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116462
11/19/11 12:44 AM
11/19/11 12:44 AM
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A couple pictures of the parts supplier Dakota.

6926130-Picture001.jpg (345 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116463
11/19/11 12:45 AM
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Another

6926132-Picture002.jpg (348 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116464
11/19/11 12:45 AM
11/19/11 12:45 AM
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Last Dakota

6926134-Picture004.jpg (320 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116465
11/19/11 01:54 AM
11/19/11 01:54 AM
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Unfortunately, what should be the next bunch of pictures is locked in my old computer that died. You get to miss seeing the disassemble of the two parts sources.

Basically, I lined to two (Dakota and the coupe) side by side and did measuring. The Dakota was a 1990 standard cab long box with a wheel base of 124". It was a 3.9 (pre-Magnum) with a 5 speed, and an 8 1/4 with 2:94 gears. The truck had about 120K on it when dissembled. I drove it to the place it was taken apart, it was a running, drivable truck with a clutch that was not completely disengaging when the clutch pedal was depressed.

The wheel base on the truck was 8" longer then the wheel base of the coupe, but the track width was almost the same.The interior was removed and several measurements were made and compared between the truck and the coupe. It was determined I could reuse the Dakota firewall and floor pan. The width of the Dakota was 3" wider at the rear door post then the coupe was at the same point. At the front door post, the truck was 6" wider then the coupe. (both measured at the inside edge of the doors) The height of the truck, from the bottom of the windshield to the floor was the same as the height of the coupe between the bottom of the windshield and the floor. The coupe doors were 3" longer then the truck doors. The height from the bottom of the Dakota fresh air box to the floor was the same height as the coupe's firewall parting line to the floor. With the two sitting side by side, moving the Dakota cab on the frame towards the rear 7" would put the firewall to front wheel center the same as the coupe firewall to center of the front wheel. Armed with measurements and a plan, the body components were removed from the Dakota leaving the frame with drive train intact. The Dakota frame is nice and straight between the wheels. I determined I could take my 8" out of the frame between the front box mounts and the fuel tank, which I did. It required a shorter drive shaft, and shorter fuel, brake, and e brake cables as well as modifying the wiring. Once the frame was shortened, the cab was sat back on the frame to determine what would need to be done to shift the cab back 7". The old cab mount brackets were removed from the frame and new ones were fabricated. The new rear cab mounts straddle the weld seam on the frame splice, giving me lots of extra bracing at the joint. Moving the motor and transmission back 7" would keep all the drive train in correct relationship to where everything was located on the truck originally. Motor and transmission mounts were fabricated. The cab was cut at the bottom of the windshield posts and at the floor line across the back of the cab and the floor pan and firewall was bolted to the new cab mounts. The Dakota chassis was rolled out of the way and covered.
Next round we will talk about the coupe. Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116466
11/19/11 02:06 AM
11/19/11 02:06 AM
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Can't wait... keep them coming.... I want to possibly do the same frame swap with the same car.

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: ramman16248] #1116467
11/19/11 11:11 AM
11/19/11 11:11 AM
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n.e. pa.
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cool project! i like to see someone keeping it all mopar(unlike the dodge ram in the newest rod&custom mag) are you keeping the v6/5speed? check out some of my desoto/dakota build posts in this section.

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: 65rbdodge] #1116468
11/20/11 10:50 AM
11/20/11 10:50 AM
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gene, keep up the good work ! fun, lobuck,& safe hot rods are a blast !can't wait to see the finished product !

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: moparx] #1116469
11/21/11 10:15 AM
11/21/11 10:15 AM
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Looks like a fun, kool project! I will definately be following this one!

Marty
Marysville, OH

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: Marty cRUIZer] #1116470
11/22/11 03:23 AM
11/22/11 03:23 AM
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Thanks guys.
Let me go on, I've got a ways to go to get current with this.

I told you how easy it was to load the car onto the trailer, unfortunately, it wasn't anywhere near that easy to unload. Let me give you a quick lay out of my place. I live at the last house on the end of our street. My property is zoned business and I run my one man welding shop out of the 2 car garage. The garage sits to the west of the house, the front of the garage is 10' behind the house. There is a 16' wide driveway from the garage to the street. West of the driveway is an empty lot that belongs to me. The lot is at the end of the block lined with a side street that dead ends at the back of my property. The property is pretty flat from the street to the front of the garage. Then it drops 8' in elevation from the front of the garage to the back of the garage. There is a 20' plateau before the elevation drops another 8' to the fence at the back of my property. Behind the fence, the elevation drops another 15' to a set of railroad tracks.

Because I use my garage to make a living, I must keep it mostly open, with easy access to it. That means any long term project has to sit in the grass along the west side of the drive, but in front of the garage.
The biggest piece of equipment I have here is a cherry picker, and it doesn't work very well in the grass. The car is on a borrowed trailer, so I have to get it off. The next problem is once its off the trailer, I won't be able to move it easily. The bed of the trailer is diamond plate steel, so the car can slide on the trailer with a little force, but there is a step to hook ramps to that would prevent the car from sliding off the trailer completely. To complicate matters worse, most of the time I'm working alone. My plan was to back the Dakota to a right angle to the drive, put my cherry picker in line with the drive, and chain it to the Dakota. Then I backed the trailer up to the cherry picker and unchained the car from the trailer. I hooked the cherry picker to the car frame and lifted the front about 3" off the trailer deck. Then I drove the trailer forward as the car slid on the trailer bed until only the front drums were still on the trailer. Jacked the cherry picker up another 12"-15" then put a pair of jack stands under the front frame, as high as I could go. I went back and lowered the picker until it wedged the front drums off the trailer bed. I removed the trailer and raised the picker up and set another pair of jack stands under the rear frame. With the car sitting solidly on 4 jack stands, the cherry picker was unchained from the Dakota and move it. Then the cherry picker was dug out of the grass and put back in the garage.

After several days of cleanup and all the measurements taken, covered earlier, The plan was made. For the record, everything done with the Dakota took place on the lot side of the driveway, side of the coupe. With the Dakota cut down to a frame, drive train and firewall and floor pan, it was moved onto the lot, out of the way.

Now the real fun began. It was time to remove the body shell from the coupe. The coupe body was braced inside with electrical conduit across the door openings and back to the rear wheel wells and from side to side with 2 levels of bracing, one set near the top of the doors, and the other set as low as I could get. I had hoped to keep the body as close to original as was possible, though I already knew it was off a bit from all the rusted structure. Wish I could show pictures of the bracing, but they are on the dead computer. Inspection told me I had 2 body mounts remaining at the firewall, and the very back 2 body mounts at the rear bumper that were still holding the body to the frame. In the cars previous life, someone cut out the center of the trunk floor and the lower 6" off the passenger side from the firewall to the rear wheel well. Both floor pans had rotted away from the firewall to the rear wheel wells, from the frame to the outer body shell. With a sawzall, I cut about 18" of floor along both rear wheel wells, removed the front 2 and rear 2 body mounts and the body was ready to lift off the frame. I left the doors on the body shell and intended on placing a 4" x 6" wood beam I have on a welded post on my cherry picker, through the door openings to lift the body. Here is where the next problem became apparent. Remember the car is sitting on the grass alongside of the driveway? To position the cherry picker to lift the body, the picker is completely off the driveway and will need to roll on to the driveway because I can't move the frame. The cherry picker won't move in the grass with the weight of the body hanging on it. To make matters worse, the grass is a couple inches lower then the driveway is, so even if it would have moved in the grass, it would not have come up on the cement driveway.

I acquired a couple 2" x 12" pieces of wood to put under the wheels of the cherry picker while it was in the grass. I had hoped the picker would roll on the wood then onto the the drive with the car body hanging from it. Ever try to roll a loaded cherry picker straight on an uneven surface? Didn't work for me either. I did manage to get the front wheels of the picker on the drive when one of the wheels under the car fell off one of the boards. I was pretty screwed. The body was about 1/2 way off the frame when the wheel fell off the board, so I couldn't set it down and put the picker back on the wood, and I couldn't move the picker with the 1 wheel off the wood alone. On top of that, it was getting late an would be dark in another hour. I moved my Big Blue truck up by the cherry picker and hooked a come-a-long between the picker and Big Blue. With the com-a-long, I could pull the cherry picker along onto the driveway. I had to reposition the truck 3 times but was able to get everything but that one wheel on the driveway. With a pry bar I was able to get that 4th wheel up on the drive. Once on the driveway, I was able to put the body on blocks and get the picker out from under it and back in the garage for over night. I really wish I would have gotten pictures of that body on blocks sitting on the driveway, but I didn't.pictures was about the last thing I was thinking about then. More later. Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116471
11/22/11 04:01 AM
11/22/11 04:01 AM
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On a fresh day, I trimmed the edges of the floor pan and removed the bottom section of the firewall off the coupe.

I picked the body off the driveway and rolled it across the drive so I could roll the prepared frame back on the drive, side of the now basically bare coupe frame. With the coupe body high, I positioned it above the Dakota frame and started lowering it. The plan was to trim either the coupe body or the Dakota firewall a little at a time until the coupe was sitting on the firewall & floor pan. Originally, I started trimming the sides of the Dakota air box (the top part of the firewall that houses the wiper parts and all the heat/vent ducts for the heater & air condition pull air from.) Early on it was determined that was a flawed plan. I cut across the firewall under the floor of the air box leaving only the lower vertical portion of the Dakota firewall. The lower portion is where the heater, the brake booster, the steering column base mounts, anything originally attached to the Dakota firewall. I also ended up cutting about 4" of each side of the firewall. Once the firewall was trimmed, the coupe body sat on top of the Dakota rockers. The rockers were marked to trim. The Dakota outer rockers were already rusted off, leaving only very clean inner rockers, I had to trim the front 1/2 of the inner rockers off at the marks. Once the rockers were trimmed, the body slid down into place. I had to support the rear of the body with a piece of wood across the frame at the rear end of the trunk. The body was squared on the frame according to the firewall body mounts and by measurements along the side & rear of the body and measured for height. Once I determined the body was in the correct position, a few contact points were tack welded to hold the body in position and another day was gone. Have some pictures for the next installment, I think. Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116472
11/22/11 08:06 PM
11/22/11 08:06 PM
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Reminds me of how I used to move my 38 Plymouth about. I had pulled the engine, front suspension and front clip off. Then I would pick up the front frame rails like a wheel barrow and move the car about by hand. TO load it on a trailer I would wheel barrow the front end up as far as I could by hand, use my engine hoist to pick up the rear and my floor jack as a dolly under the front cross member, then shove the whole assemblage forward till I was happy and chain it down. My neighbors never said boo to me.


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Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116473
11/27/11 02:07 PM
11/27/11 02:07 PM
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Gene,
I hope that you are able to post some pictures of your progress. Obviously a lot of thought going into your build, as well as in engineering ways to do the "heavy lifting" by yourself.
I work by myself in my one man body shop. I know what a challenge working alone can be, and so I enjoyed reading about your work so far.
I do have some guys that stop in from time to time and they do help me a lot.
Keep up the good work, and post some pics when you can.
Mark


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Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: Hemi Allstate] #1116474
11/29/11 01:53 AM
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If you remember, someone before me cut off the part of the coupe's lower body that bent outward between the wheels, (about the bottom 6"-8") on one side, but the other side was still present. The side that was still present was paper thin with many pin holes, so I cut it off as well. With the crusty sheet metal gone, I can now see the crusty and mostly gone lower body structure. Just for your info, originally these cars were built with several formed sheet metal boxes. Basically, the outer rockers and floor board formed the body structure the rest of the body was built on top of. The outer rocker runs from the firewall to the rear wheel well and is formed with the floor pan attached to it. The inner rocker is spot welded to the bottom outer edge of the outer rocker and bends back towards the center of the car about 6" before it bends up and is spot welded back to the floor pan. The firewall brace is spot welded on top of the rocker assembly and consists of several pieces of steel all spot welded together. The outer firewall brace part rises up to the cowl and bends 90 degrees around the front to meet the front portion of inner firewall brace structure. The rear edge of the firewall brace is spot welded to the outer part of the "A" pillar (front door post.)There is another part of the firewall bracing inside the car that welds to the firewall itself, the upper cowl, the door post and the lower windshield header. From the top of the cowl down to the floor, the door post ("A" pillar) has a formed flanged channel (open side facing inward) with cut outs for the door hinge assemblies to bolt to. There is also an inner door post that welds to the flanges on the channel and back to the firewall brace. The door post above the cowl consists of several pieces of formed sheet steel that form the one piece inner windshield header that surrounds the entire windshield and is the inside portion of the pinch weld the windshield gasket sits on. The stamped cowl and the stamped roof skin form the outer windshield header and the glass pinch weld. The firewall is a stamped panel with 2 side and a top flange that spot welds to the front bend of the firewall braces and the lower edge of the cowl. There are 2 forward body mounts under the firewall braces on each side of the body shell.

As we move rearward on the rocker assembly we find the rear door post is also a formed channel that is welded on top of the rocker assembly. The open end of this channel is towards the rear. The outer body panel is spot welded to the outer edge of the channel and extends down to the outside of the rocker assembly, and up to the roof seem under the rain gutter. The outer panel also forms the outer edge of the quarter window pinch weld. There is bracing that welds to the inside edge of the door post that is the part the trim panel screws to. It also welds to the floor pan, the rear wheel well, and the stamped inner quarter window support and inner pinch weld. The rear wheel well closes off the end of the rocker assembly, welds to the outer body panel and the floor pan. Under the floor are support pieces that are formed channels that spot weld to the inner rocker and the floor pan and run across the car. There are at least 4 of these braces and they are also used as structure points for body to frame mounts.
For your entertainment, I have pictures of most of this structure.
This picture is the bottom of the "A" pillar/door post/inner firewall looking from the inside. you can see where the car was cut before it came to me.

6941393-48coupe0003.jpg (324 downloads)
Last edited by poorboy; 11/29/11 01:55 AM.
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116475
11/29/11 01:56 AM
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This picture is the bottom of rear door post.

6941396-48coupe0005.jpg (349 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116476
11/29/11 01:58 AM
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This should show what the top of the rear door post and roof support pieces look like.

6941398-48coupe0006.jpg (343 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116477
11/29/11 02:01 AM
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The white truck in the background was the donar of parts.
this picture is from inside the car looking forward from the wheel well towards the back of the door post.

6941403-48coupe0013.jpg (364 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116478
11/29/11 02:03 AM
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Floor support at a body mount. The inner rocker should be about where that channel is rusted away.

6941408-48coupe0014.jpg (297 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116479
11/29/11 02:05 AM
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Here you can see how the door post sits on top of the rocker assembly. The pretty flat piece with the curve towards the ground is the remains of the rocker/floor pan, honest.

6941410-48coupe0015.jpg (312 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116480
11/29/11 02:07 AM
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Here is the bottom of the "a" pillar & firewall body mount.

6941413-48coupe0016.jpg (287 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116481
11/29/11 04:00 AM
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Sorry about the quality of that last picture.

The Dakota floor pan was used intact. The rear cab mounts are supported by a formed box that runs side to side. It is tied to the pan, the inner rockers, and the rear of the cab panel. Brackets were moved on the frame to make use of this floor reinforcing. As the body sat on the Dakota floor pan, the coupe's rear door posts were trimmed so the post sat just inside the floor pan box. Hindsight tells me I should have trimmed another 1/2" off the box. I welded the door post to the cab mount box.

This is the point where I wave the red flags. I made a mistake at this point that wouldn't show up until a year later. You need to understand, this coupe body was in such bad shape, many measurements were simple best guesses. My doors were hinged, but there were no latches, the doors were wired shut. Since the floor pan was gone (the previous pictures were taken before I did anything with the car other then clean up the loose stuff.) I have no reference to the proper location of the rear door post, it was just hanging in the breeze. When the bracing was welded in, before the body was removed from the frame, the swinging doors were all I had to guess the location of the door posts. While it was tacked to the new floor, the doors were test closed. The door gap was real close and the body to door was a good fit, the doors swung free and came in line when held closed, it was determined to be correct. What I failed to notice was that the tops of the doors were out about 3/8". Its easy to see now that the car is nearing finishing. I will have to cut the top of the door frame and tilt the top of the post in and reweld it. I am not going to cut the car apart to fix this mistake. Remember where the car came from, and what it is going to be, a street version of a dirt track race car. Perfection is not my highest priority.

I add a new vertical panel as an inner rocker, welded it to the floor pan and extend it from the firewall to the rear cab mount box and another vertical panel from the rear of the cab mount box to the rear wheel well. Once the inner rockers were in place, I would extend the front and rear door posts and attach them to outside of the inner rocker. The front cab mounts were located about mid way between the original coupe front 2 firewall body mounts. The mounts were modified to tie into the bottom of the firewall. At a later date, the front coupe firewall mount would be added to the frame.

Instead of attempting to have the bottom of the body kick outward as the 46-48 Plymouth's did, it would be much more simple to take them straight down and under the body like the 41 & 42 body's were.

The Dakota had a 8' box. That box had a topper on it all its life so the box floor was in great shape. Measurements revealed if I cut the sides off the box, its floor could be shortened and it would fit in the coupe as a rear floor. If i trimmed the front, I could still mount the box floor on the Dakota frame using the center 2 mounting points on each side. The box floor on a Dakota is about 6" higher on the frame then the cab floor is. The coupe is a business coupe, there was not ever a back seat, and I didn't plan on having one now. The rise in the box floor would sit behind the cab floor pan, which would be behind the seat. I would have to cut the box floor in 1/2 (front to back) to get it in the car. With the front 1/2 of the box floor bolted to the frame, the step up between the front floor pan and the rear floor pan was made and reinforced. At this point, I was still planning on installing a roll cage, so provisions were made at the step up so the main hoop could be welded to a well structured floor. Floor extensions were made to attach the wheel wells and rear body to the box floor.

The coupe trunk floor was removed before I got the car. Someone also cut the bottom 6" off the trunk lid and had it screwed to a piece of wood that was screwed to both rear quarters. A rear cross member and body reinforcing plates were built to attach to the quarters to each other and provided a pair of rear body mount locations.

Through the process the body was channeled on the frame about 3" at the front and about 2" at the rear.

Pictures: In this one, you can see the "new" inner rocker and where the rear door post is welded to it. I believe this may have been before the door post extensions were made on this side. The raised part of the floor pan is the body mount box. You see the little kick up in the inner rocker just in front of the door post is where the rear edge od the Dakota door originally was. At the right edge of the picture you can see the step up to the rear floor.

6941524-48coupe314.jpg (331 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116482
11/29/11 04:02 AM
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Here is a picture of the passenger side inner rocker with the front door post extension in place.

6941526-48coupe0029.jpg (307 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116483
11/29/11 04:03 AM
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Rear floor kick up.

6941528-48coupe0030.jpg (301 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116484
11/29/11 04:06 AM
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the coupe's firewall/brace to the Dakota firewall on the passenger side. This one was after the lower panel pieces were in place.

6941531-48coupe0031.jpg (281 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116485
11/29/11 04:13 AM
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Of course it wouldn't be complete without the coupe firewall/brace to Dakota firewall on the driver side. Things were progressing pretty quickly at this point, this was nearing last winter and I was trying to get things sealed up as much as possible before the weather turned nasty. I did the bottom of the doors, outer rockers, and the lower body, but didn't get everything done before the weather turned to crap. I will see if I can get some better pictures of the lower body and doors. Gene

6941534-48coupe0032.jpg (327 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116486
11/29/11 02:45 PM
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Inspiring build, that's for sure. Ability has always impressed me much more than money.

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116487
11/29/11 05:53 PM
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Quote:

Here is a picture of the passenger side inner rocker with the front door post extension in place.




Really impressive how much of the Dakota you were able to make use of, and how well it has turned out.


Mark


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Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: Hemi Allstate] #1116488
11/29/11 09:50 PM
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Thanks guys.
Funny thing about that Dakota, I stripped almost all the sheet metal from the structure before it left. I also kept anything I remotely thought I might be able to use, the trunk of the coupe and a shelf in my garage are full of Dakota parts. I even had a full sized Dodge truck here that has become a Dakota parts storage unit. LOL. As the build progresses, you will see many more Dakota parts showing up. As your looking at the pictures, keep in mind, the Dakota was originally white, and the coupe was black. Anything you see that is or was white came off the Dakota, sheet metal included.

I didn't have a chance to get new pictures of the door bottom build, so that installment may come out of order. Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116489
11/29/11 10:45 PM
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an impressive job for sure gene. i can well relate to the door fitment issues you are experiancing, as the floor and post bracing on my humpback was gone as well. what was thought as reasonable door fitment is now apparent that i will have to "modify" further to satisfy my panel/gap goals. keep up the good work ! i'm looking forward to more progress reports !

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: 56_Royal_Lancer] #1116490
11/30/11 08:12 PM
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Quote:

Inspiring build, that's for sure. Ability has always impressed me much more than money.


And how is the 56 coming along?

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: 56_Royal_Lancer] #1116491
12/01/11 12:05 PM
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Quote:

Inspiring build, that's for sure. Ability has always impressed me much more than money.



Xs 3
I was wanting to do the same with a 60's car. No frame rails left but a solid bucket. I would need a short regular cab. The wheels base and track are incredibly close to my Coronete. I am wondering if a straight axle from an earlier mopar would fit the Dak frame. I LOVE Gassers. Steering would probably make it a tough go.
When I posted it here I got no response. Guess it was because the body was too new.(?)

By the way I too do almost everything myself. Just unloaded a truck cab, complete with doors. Had to drag the cherry picker through the grass and then drive the truck out from under. I get where you are at.
Your quality of work far surpasses my ability, but the more I do the better I get. And it's fun.

Great build, can't wait to see how it turns out.


I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: bboogieart] #1116492
12/02/11 03:17 AM
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I got a couple pictures of the door bottom & door corners. I need to make a bunch of poor excuses with these pictures. All of the "new" metal welded in here was from the hood & box sides from the Dakota. When the metal was welded on, I only removed the paint from the weld area, the welding was done outside on a couple of pretty windy days, I was trying to close up the car before winter set in. After the welding was done (minutes after) the whole area was spray bombed with cheap black paint over dirt, cracked old paint, and still warm welds that were not ground down.

With that in mind, The passenger side door was cut off just below the lower door hinge but a previous owner. What your looking at is a hand formed inner door panel, welded to a hand formed outer panel patch. There are also pictures of the door corners, I didn't want the 90 degree door bottoms.

6946453-088.JPG (264 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116493
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rear corner

6946454-089.JPG (251 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116494
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Front, passenger side door post & rocker. Note, the seam is sealed with NAPA seam sealer.

6946458-086.JPG (244 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116495
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rear of door & outer quarter patch

6946459-087.JPG (240 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116496
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Driver side door, rear & quarter

6946461-084.JPG (186 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116497
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Front of door

6946462-083.JPG (209 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116498
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How about a pre-paint driver door?

6946464-48plymouth007.JPG (442 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116499
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Did you notice the Dakota gas door on the side of the coupe?

6946465-085.JPG (218 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116500
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That gas door from inside, along with the wheel well inner floor extension.

6946466-093.JPG (193 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116501
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There is a box that covers in gas fill inside the car. When I'm done, this will be screwed to the floor.

6946468-094.JPG (223 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116502
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Some more wheel well/trunk floor to body fillers.

6946471-090.JPG (221 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116503
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Other side

6946473-092.JPG (240 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116504
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There was a bunch of stuff to move to get these trunk pictures

6946474-091.JPG (247 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116505
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The last picture was of the seam between the front 1/2 of the bed floor (now the trunk floor) and the back 1/2 of the bed floor (now the trunk floor)

The last series of pictures I talked about how my doors were off because of the improper door post location. I have pictures....Please forgive my temporary windows, the new window channel is ordered. Driver side is about 3/8" out at the top corner.

6946479-117.JPG (179 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116506
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Passenger side is out about 1/4". I'm likely going to make a cut on the window post and bend it back in and re-weld, on both sides

6946482-118.JPG (283 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116507
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I'm going to back up a bit now. As the body and the chassis merged, one area of concern was the very rusty cowl and the cowl vent that always leaks. Also, all of the coupes windshield wiper system was gone.

The Dakota has a pretty neat setup. The top of the firewall has what I'm calling a vent box. Inside the vent box, the heater fresh air and the cab vents come off the back of this box. The complete wiper system is housed in the vent box, and there are water drains on both sides of the cowl. The vent box is completely closed off from the cab except for the fixed mentioned duct work, and the vent box is above the heat/ac unit. If I can transfer this vent box concept to the coupe, I might actually be able to have dry feet while driving the coupe in the rain, not something very common with this era Plymouth.
Since I'm using the Dakota firewall, I know the width is close. Since the cowl already has rust holes in it and the vent area is really in sad shape, I figured I didn't have much to loose. So, I started off cutting the cowl off the coupe. I cut just above the firewall seam at the front, along the rusted out sides, and a couple inches under where the coupe's wipers would have been. Sorry, I thought I had pictures of the process, but nope. Sorry.

Anyway, after I cut the cowl off, I made a template from cardboard. There would be a one piece back and bottom, but since it needed a crown so water could drain out both sides, the back would have to be split in the center. The bottom front would weld to the firewall. The top back would weld to the cowl, near the wiper location. I could build both ends and close in the center as required. I wanted about an inch and a half drop on each side from center. The back panel would need to be as vertical and flat as possible other then the edges and center.

I discovered that with the cowl removed, it was a lot easier to fit the Dakota heater in the coupe. With the exception of the fresh air inlet, the heater/ac under dash unit fit snugly in the coupe. I had to "clearance" the area around the fan housing and trimmed some of the firewall upper structure from the passenger side that used to support the hood hinge. While I had such good access, I made the heater/ac unit fit. I would still have to make a fresh air to recirculated air door area to completer the heat/ac unit at a later date.

Once the heat/ac unit was bolted to the firewall (in the original mounting holes) I returned to the vent box fabrication. Once I was confident with the cardboard template, I transferred it to a new piece of 18 gauge steel.
The vent box floor/back wall was bent at about 80 degrees, before the back wall was cut at the mid point. The piece was bent in the center at about 20 degrees to form the water shed. Once satisfied with the fit, the front and top was welded to the body. The center was enclosed, and the ends were enclosed. The passenger side was enclosed with a couple pieces so the heater fan housing would not be in contact with the firewall/ vent box. Care was also taken to assure water would be able to drain away from the box without sitting anywhere. i have pictures of the finished box.

6946508-48plymouth036.JPG (355 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116508
12/02/11 04:52 AM
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After the vent box was done, I cut the hoe for the wiring harness firewall connection to be under the cowl.

6946511-48plymouth037.JPG (302 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116509
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The cowl will be mounted back in the original location. It will be held in lace with screws so it can be removed anytime needed. Eventually, the ends of the cowl piece will be enclosed in a way for water to drain out. The entire vent box is sealed with seam sealer for a water tight area. I will cut holes in the back wall for heat/ac fresh air, and cab vents. There will be mounting brackets added to support the wiper pivots and the wiper motor. The original coupe's wiper post holes were welded closed.

6946514-48plymouth039.JPG (525 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116510
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With the cowl piece screwed back on. It is nice and dry even with the cowl vent open, which will likely be a permanent thing.

6946515-48plymouth030.JPG (378 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116511
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With the hood on, most people won't know all this work was done. Gene

6946517-48plymouth040.JPG (307 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116512
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Thought I posted a couple pictures of the sort of finished rockers, but must not have.

6946518-48plymouth034.JPG (207 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116513
12/02/11 05:08 AM
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More rockers

6946519-48plymouth035.JPG (244 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116514
12/02/11 04:10 PM
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Tell me you are planning on driving that thing to Back to the 50's next summer in St. Paul?


What do the door handles look like?

Paul


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Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: PocketThunder] #1116515
12/02/11 08:41 PM
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Two questions. How long has it taken you to get this far and are you keeping the 3.9?

Awesome buildup!!!

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: MOPAR_AMC_FAN] #1116516
12/02/11 10:18 PM
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gene, great job on the cowl repair and using the dak doors to fix the original door bottoms ! you must be like me : never throw anything away, ya never know when it mite come in handy......... is the cowl vent going to be fixed in the "open" position ?

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116517
12/03/11 08:20 PM
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Quote:

I need to make a bunch of poor excuses with these pictures.



No need to make excuses. You are doing a fine job. We all know you will finish up that body work in time. In keeping with the nature of the build, I think it should be a little rough. Stock cars of old weren't very pretty up close.


I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: bboogieart] #1116518
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Thanks for the responses guys.

PocketThunder, Probably not going to make it to the Back To The Fifties, been many years since I've been there. Don't see the funding being present to do the BTTF.
The door handles will be the next installment, I actually have pictures of that. Might be a few days off, this is a busy time of year for me, after work is done.

Mopar_AMC_Fan. I bought this car end of March or the first part of April, 2010. It moved under its own power in April this year. I am driving it in and out of the garage to work on it. It has to sit outside unless I'm actually working on it. We are just about caught up to where I am at at this point.
I intend on keeping the 3.9. It will pretty much be a daily driver and the 3.9, 5 speed in the Dakota form got great gas mileage. That translates into more driving time per $$. The 3.9 with the 5 speed is enough to get me in trouble, I've out grown the need for speed. I broke enough stuff when I was younger, I kind of like cruising around these days.

Morparx, Originally the cowl vent was going to remain open, but Friday I installed part of the wiper system and one of the wiper posts and the cowl vent need to occupy the same space. The piece the cowl vent attaches to is in horrible condition to begin with, so something would have had to be done with it. I will make a decision concerning the cowl vent at some time after the wiper system is functioning. To pass the inspection, the wipers have to function. I still have the slotted panel that was in that location on the Dakota. I'm not afraid to modify anything.

bboogieart, The slightly rough part was one of the reasons I went with this project in the first place. Figured I could get it going, hit the road, and patch & improve it as I went, fits my style well.

As I progress, the main concern at this point is to get it ready to pass the NSRA Safety inspection it has to pass for the title process. I feel I need to be at that point by the end of JAN to be able to drive the car this spring. Already completed are the door handles and the windshield is bonded in (2 piece, with a center post). Those improvements have installments coming, hang in there. Nearing completion is the door glass with updated tracks, defroster duct work, and custom wiper system, those too will be posted processes. All the new replacement brake parts are here, but I figure you guys know how to do brakes, so that won't be covered. I probably will cover the E-brake activation device, I have not given that any thought, but the Dakota stuff is here, and even most of the coupe stuff is still here. Some kind of merge will likely happen and I need the e-brake for the inspection. After that, building a dash, and doing the lights should get me close to the goal.
Once the safety inspection goal has been reached, I will probably address other issues (there are plenty to choose from. LOL!)
Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116519
12/12/11 01:56 AM
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When the coupe arrived here, there was 1 outside door handle that wouldn't turn, and 2 inside handles that wouldn't move. There was nothing in the line of door post parts. The latch mechanisms were both locked up tight. The Dakota had perfect handles inside and out, with locks that matched each other and the steering column, and everything worked. Seemed like a no-brainer to me, install the Dakota stuff in the coupe doors.

Measurements were made to assure the coupe doors were wide enough to house the Dakota latch assemblies. Measurements showed the outside door handles would have to sit just under the belt line on the coupe doors, about an inch and a half higher then the original outside handles were located.

Having done this type of project before, I assumed the easiest process would be to cut the metal surrounding the handles & latches from the Dakota and transfer them into the coupe. Unfortunately, that would require cutting perfect, rust free Dakota doors. Every attempt was made to find someone that need the good doors, I was willing to make a deal and cut up rusty or bent doors. After 6 months of searching, the time was up, and my doors were cut.

So, an area with extra material was cut from around the outside door handle and the area along the door edge behind the outside handle. One of the most important things with this type of project is to assure the relationship between the outside handle and the latch assembly remains unchanged. Modifying the length or configuration of the little connecting rods hidden inside a door is a major pain in the butt. It is much easier to maintain the relationship and modify the door skin then it is to modify the rods.
This picture shows the outside door handle (driver door) surrounding sheet metal. The door edge is on the right, and there is a section of the door edge still attached to the outer piece.

6962891-48plymouth050.JPG (192 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116520
12/12/11 02:00 AM
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The latch assembly bolts to the door below the outside handle and has a notch cut from the door edge and from the inside of the door. You can see the outer piece in the bottom corner.

6962898-48plymouth051.JPG (211 downloads)
Last edited by poorboy; 12/12/11 02:18 AM.
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116521
12/12/11 02:21 AM
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This is the two pieces in proper relationship to each other. Notice the marker alignment marks, they were made while the parts were still on the Dakota door.

6962920-48plymouth052.JPG (183 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116522
12/12/11 02:33 AM
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Marked on the coupe door is the location of the hole the outer handle will fit into. Notice the location of the original lock cylinder? The Dakota locks are located in the handle, so this old lock will be removed and the hole will have to be filled. The piece I cut from the Dakota door is not large enough to cover this hole. Also, the Dakota door edge seem has a different configuration, making the handle a distance from the door edge. It will be easier to make a new outside door handle surround then it would have been to modify the Dakota skin.

6962933-48plymouth047.JPG (182 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116523
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This would be the location of the door latch assembly laid out with a marker.

6962938-48plymouth046.JPG (246 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116524
12/12/11 02:43 AM
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The handle hole was cut out of the outer skin but the original latch assembly was in the way of the handle fitting in the door cut out correctly. Pictured is the process of cutting the door latch out of the car. I had to cut the latch because all of the screws that hold the latch assembly in place stripped out. The skin was going to have to be cut anyway.

6962941-48plymouth048.JPG (147 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116525
12/12/11 02:46 AM
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By this picture, you can see it took a couple attempts to remove the latch assembly. I wanted to keep as much of the original door as possible. Even with the cuts already made, the latch still wouldn't come out.

6962946-48plymouth049.JPG (227 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116526
12/12/11 02:56 AM
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I make patterns out of cardboard. Its cheaper to cut up, or modify, and not much of a loss if you goof up, then steel is. The cardboard cases canned beverage comes in works very well, I use Pepsi usually, but this pattern happens to be from a shoe box. Also shown is the Dakota door edge/inner door panel the latch assembly screws to.

6962959-48plymouth053.JPG (243 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116527
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This is the hole in the outer door skin. The marked line is where the pattern lays. The pattern would be shifted and trimmed to have a uniform edge all around. If it was too far off, I can tape extra cardboard to the pattern or cut a corrected one.

6962962-48plymouth056.JPG (200 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116528
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Cardboard pattern held in place. This pattern will also be used on the other door by flipping it over.

6962963-48plymouth054.JPG (226 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116529
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Here is a picture of the door edge and inner door where the old latch assemble was removed. You can also see the outer door handle cut out.

6962966-48plymouth055.JPG (217 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116530
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here are the two steel patches. The one on the right is the outer handle surround. The piece on the left is the still unbent edge/inner panel. On the edge panel, notice the shape outlined in marker, and the 3 places the screw holes will be. The angled slot like marking will be for the door latch adjustment. This is a new piece of sheet metal with a slight surface rust that will sand off.

6962970-48plymouth057.JPG (179 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116531
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This is the outer handle surround welded in position. The outer part needs to be done before the inside part is welded in. The hole was cut, and the handle fitted and tightened into position. The latch assembly was screwed to the new door edge ans was fine tuned to assure everything worked.

6962975-48plymouth058.JPG (258 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116532
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This is the hole from inside the car, with the outer skin welded in position. The square piece that runs up and down is the original window track.

6962977-48plymouth059.JPG (245 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116533
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Once everything fit and worked, the edge piece was tacked in place, the latch was removed and the door edge patch was welded in. Pictured is the welded door edge/inner panel with the latch assembly screwed in place.

6962981-48plymouth060.JPG (222 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116534
12/12/11 03:27 AM
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In that last picture you can see the inside lock rod temporarily zip tied to the inner panel. The inside release rod is running forward. Those pieces will be finished as needed when the door panel is fitted. Both pieces work as is.

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116535
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I don't have pictures of the striker post during installation. But the process was pretty straight forward. Once the door latch and handle was done, the location of the striker post was marked with a marker. A hole was cut about an inch square so the post would have some adjustment. A reinforcing plate was made to fit on the back side with a 1" matching square. The reinforcing plate would have flanges to capture the "nut" the striker post screws in to. I drilled 4- 1/4" holes around the square hole in the outer skin. The striker was bolted into position and the door was opened and closed several times to assure the door worked properly. Once assured of a functioning door, the reinforcing plate was plug welded to the outer skin through the 1/4" holes.

Pictures of the striker bolted in place, painted.

6962989-114.JPG (244 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116536
12/12/11 03:47 AM
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The original door post had an indentation where the original latch pieces used to fit. I cut the indentation out and welded a piece flush in that location. I have a couple pictures of the back of the striker post reinforcing plate, the pictures suck, they were real hard to take. This 1st one is a more clear picture, but off centered.

6962991-115.JPG (166 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116537
12/12/11 03:51 AM
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This picture is the same location, but better centered. Unfortunately, the picture sucks.

The whole process was repeated for the other side, except I didn't bother cutting the original surrounding metal from the Dakota door. Gene

6962992-116.JPG (210 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116538
12/12/11 08:22 AM
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Some very nice work, especially with what you started with. Originally being from the midwest myself I know first hand about missing and rotted sheetmetal......and am first to admit that I have been spoiled living in AZ the last 25 years. The stuff some of you guys back there start with amazes me.

I'm wondering about the difference in body weight between the car and truck are you going to have to do any spring changes because of weight differences?


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Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: Mike P] #1116539
12/12/11 10:43 PM
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good job on the door handle install gene ! i'm using k car handles on my humpback and they will fit nicely below the belt line bead. the inner latch structure will be installed similar to how you did yours, but at the front of the door instead, as the doors are suicide style. keep up the good work !

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: moparx] #1116540
12/13/11 01:41 AM
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Mikep, I had an AZ car once, the body was great, but everything I did to it was a battle. It was as though it didn't like me messing with it and was very uncooperative. I find it easier to work with this rusty junk, I'm a long ways from being a perfectionist, so I like going at it with the attitude that it was junk before, so I can't hurt it. Fits my life style better.

Moparx, the 1st rod I did I used K car door handles, I think I still have a set around here someplace with keys for the locks yet! Probably still have the matching steering column for the K car door handles too. Finding them may be a different story.
I have never done a suicide door before, I suspect that brings a whole new set of issues with it.

I seen to be having a real problem figuring out how I need to do hood hinges. One of the few things that must have gotten collected with a pile of scrap from the Dakota since I can't find them around here. They probably would have worked out well too. Something will come to me, I just hate sitting for hours staring at something without coming up with a plan of some sort. Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116541
12/18/11 11:29 PM
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Quote:

Gene




Your build has me highly intrigued. I have acquired a 1948 Dodge panel truck, and also a 1989 Dodge Dakota, I am hoping the two merge as well as your project has.

You have truly set me rolling on my path to soon having a cool service truck, an 89 Dakota, but it will look like a 48 Panel.

6973577-icon48panel.png (180 downloads)
Last edited by Paneleer; 12/18/11 11:30 PM.
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: Paneleer] #1116542
12/19/11 12:41 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

Gene




Your build has me highly intrigued. I have acquired a 1948 Dodge panel truck, and also a 1989 Dodge Dakota, I am hoping the two merge as well as your project has.

You have truly set me rolling on my path to soon having a cool service truck, an 89 Dakota, but it will look like a 48 Panel.




Is your Dakota the short box standard cab? That panel will fit on that short Dakota frame great and the long Dakota frame with a little frame shortening. Using the Dakota floor pan (if its still good) and firewall make the build work nice, then you can use most of the Dakota stuff in its original position. I will give you words of wisdom and support as you go through the process any place I can. Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116543
12/21/11 11:33 PM
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Still plugging away. The coupe had a lot of issues with the structural integrity around The windshield frame. The top of the windshield header was rotted away, and the rubber gasket was pretty much hanging in the breeze. I ended up replacing a 44" wide section of metal above the windshield, and a large section of the inside lower pinch weld as well. As such, I had to reform the peak of the windshield, on both the top and the bottom of the "V" and much of the inner body structure at the top and the bottom of the windshield. Having had to deal with windshield gasket leaks in my 50 4x4 for years, (new glass and new rubber 2 times, made little difference, still leaked around the rubber) I was determined I was not going to have rubber gaskets in this car.

Since I had already done extensive work on the windshield frame, I contacted the local glass guy I've used for years, to see what I needed to bond in new glass. He told me I needed at least a 3/8" lip all the way around the windshield for the Buteen (or whatever that windshield black glue stuff is called) to sit on, and I would have to make a center support. I'm using a split 2 piece windshield with a center post that is bonded in. The center post had to be 1" wide, and at the correct angle for both pieces of glass to sit on and not touch. I added another piece all the way around the outside of the frame to give me a 1/2" flat surface lip for each 1/2 of the windshield, with the center post finishing up the glass mounting surface. A hard board pattern was made from the still intact 1/2 section of the windshield. The 1/2 section I had was in bad condition, it was separating and was scratched up real bad, there was also a crack in one corner. I was concerned it would break while I was trying to get all my surfaces flat. I figured a hard pattern wasn't a bad idea anyway.
While I was doing the surface pieces, I sent the glass out to have a couple pieces made. The windshield fits on the lip where the rubber gasket originally sat. The glass guy put a 1/4" thick piece of bonding agent on the surface and the glass sat on top of that, the finished product is about 3/8" above the body surface at the top and sides. He has a nice seam of bonding agent all the way around both pieces of glass to assure the seal and to protect the edges of the glass. At some point, I may fill the small gap between the glass and the body, but at this point, I'm leaving it alone. I'll see what pictures I have I can post of the process, but much of it was done in a hurry, so pictures are limited. Lets start with the finished product.

6978493-099.JPG (290 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116544
12/21/11 11:33 PM
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another view

6978496-100.JPG (234 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116545
12/21/11 11:34 PM
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The center post

6978500-102.JPG (211 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116546
12/21/11 11:35 PM
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What the "gap" looks like.

6978503-101.JPG (308 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116547
12/21/11 11:42 PM
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All the in process pictures are on the crashed computer, sorry. Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116548
12/22/11 08:44 PM
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Looks good! It's funny as the glass almost looks TOO clear because it's new. Nice job!

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116549
12/26/11 04:07 PM
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almost the same project I have been looking to do mine is a 46 dodge coupe that would make your plymouth look show room new.I have the front half of a dakota frame that I want to graft into the OE dodge frame. It looks good. My friend says Im nuts for even thinking about this job so your not alone.


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Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: yella71] #1116550
12/26/11 10:16 PM
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Yella71, I fully understand, unfortunately, this one is not the first disaster case I've been involved in, there have been a couple before this one. At the beginning of each of those other projects, everyone told me I was crazy, and every time I swore it was the last time I would undertake such a big project, but here I am, doing the 3rd or 4th such project. Maybe they are right?

Oh well, its always better after you take that first trip around the block and make it back home! This one is getting close to that 1st trip around the block, the list is getting smaller, and its starting to really look like a car! I've been driving it in and out of the garage for a couple months now.

This is the first major project I've done where the "parts supply ride" was a running, driving, & street legal car or truck. I've used so much of the original Dakota, its almost intact. Things have progressed quickly, as I'm getting past the "engineering" portion and progressing towards the "replacement" portion.
At this point, the largest out of pocket expense has been buying the parts to rebuild the entire Dakota brake system. Everything will be new except the brake booster, master cylinder, and rear brake backing plates. I have over $800 in brake only parts, I'm not buying the cheapest crap out there, but its not the most expensive stuff either. I'm waiting to the end to redo the brakes, the current brakes stop the car, but before it hits the road, all the new stuff will be there. The emergency brake pedal assembly is the only area that will need any engineering, unless you consider running new steel brake lines engineering. Replacing parts is a lot easier and faster then trying to figure out what will work together. Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116551
01/12/12 09:30 PM
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The emergency brake pedal assembly is the only area that will need any engineering

Gene have you concidered a handle instead of a pedal? Like the ones mounted on the floor between the seats. Might be a little easier to figure out a mount.


I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: bboogieart] #1116552
01/13/12 12:13 AM
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Third time might be a charm, the goofy weather is playing with my internet.
Guess I need to do an update.
I kept the pedal assembly from the Dakota, and I also still have the original lever assembly from the coupe. Like everything else on the coupe, anyplace where to parts were connected together that were suppose to move, didn't. Nearly everything original to the coupe was froze. A few months ago, I took all the mechanical parts related to the body and soaked them with PB Blaster, just drowned those parts then set them on a shelf.

The coupe is about 6" more narrow then the Dakota was at the firewall. Since the coupe is a 5 speed, the area near the driver's foot is pretty congested. The Dakota e-brake assembly was a pedal assembly. With the gas pedal, the brake pedal and a clutch pedal, there is little room left for my big wide feet to share space with another pedal. I was concerned every time I stepped on the clutch I would also contact the e-brake pedal.

One day I pulled out the two brake assemblies and started comparing them. I discovered the previously froze coupe lever could move a little. With much more PB and the help of the bench vice, I could work the lever until it was free. I dissembled it and cleaned and lubed everything. Once freed up, it was a viably choice. I compared the way the cable attached and the amount of pull each assembly had between to two assemblies. The amount of cable pull was the same. The Dakota cable had a removable sleeve the was pined to the assembly that the cable slipped into. The coupe also had a sleeve, but its pin was staked, and the cable was also pinned to the sleeve. When I drilled out the staked pin from the coupe assembly, I found the removable pin and sleeve from the Dakota fit right on the coupe's assembly. I would be able to use the Dakota front e-brake cable unmodified. All I had to do was determine where I wanted the lever to sit and make a bracket to hold it on the car. The original lever mounting position was at the top & side of the cowl. That location was rusted away, and is now part of the heater air box assembly. I was able to make a bracket I welded to the firewall/door post to bolt the e-brake lever to. I still need to make a hole for the cable to exit through the floor, the original Dakota e-brake cable hole was at the edge of the firewall, a part that was removed. Making the hold will be easy and will be done when I do the rest of the brakes, probably in another month or so. I don't want to do the brakes too long before I'm ready to start driving the car. Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116553
01/13/12 01:17 AM
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a couple weeks after the windshield install, I determined I wanted to replace both the big pieces of glass in each door. One was cracked, and the other one was starting to separate bad. I took one of my windows and dropped it off at my glass guy.
While the glass was out getting cut, I worked on the windshield wipers. I kept everything from the Dakota (I know how surprised you guys are about that ) The Dakota wiper pivots set on brackets mounted inside the vent box. The wiper motor also mounts inside the vent box, and the wiring attaches from under the hood to the motor inside the box. The plan was to make the brackets and attach them to the top edge of the vent box, just under the windshield header. Thought was I should be able to use the wiper assembly complete, with the only modification being modifying the length of the linkage between to two wiper pivots. Sounded good and looked good on paper...

The wipers on the Dakota stroke in the same direction, the wipers on the coupe stroke towards each other. Not much of an issue, there was nothing left from the coupe anyway. I could off set the wipers like they were on the truck, one pivot would be towards the center, and the other pivot would be towards the outer edge on the other side of the car. When parked, both would pretty much be laying at the bottom of the glass. Once everything was all done, only the hard core old car guys would know something wasn't right, and they are not going to like my car anyway.

OK, the next issue, the wiper blades on the Dakota are 20" long, but the coupe windshield is only 13" high. So its off to my favorite auto parts store to see what they have. They have, in stock, about 4 different 11" blades. The difference was in the way the blades attached to the wiper arms. I selected a couple of blades that used either a bayonet end or the loop end and carted my new blades home. My biggest concern was with the driver side wiper, I would need at least that one to pass safety inspection to get my title. The driver side pivot had a 90 degree swing. I determined the point the pivot should be mounted to give me the wiper movement I desired. Then I would modify the Dakota arms to put the blade where I wanted it. The location was determined and the bracket to hold the pivot was made. The top of my vent box was removed, the windshield was protected, and the bracket was tack welded into position. I discovered both the driver side and the passenger side pivots used the same mounting brackets. Another mounting bracket was made, its location was determined, and it too was tacked into position. The linkage was cut, formed at an angle, and welded together. With the wiper arms pointed in the air, moving the linkage would stroke the wipers just like they were suppose to move. I was stoked. I carefully positioned the motor so the linkage was unmodified, and clamped it into position (in case some relocation would be needed.) I hooked up the wires and powered the wipers. Man, they looked great, until I shut them off. They parked the wrong way! I was dumbfounded, I had no idea what happened. Then, I looked at a still assembled Dakota. I put the wiper pivots on the wrong side of the glass. I was so concerned about getting the wipers against the bottom when parked, I never considered which way the had to park. So that means i had to cut loose the pivot mounting brackets and move both of them. Now a new set of problems became apparent. I couldn't move the driver side post far enough towards the outside enough to have the blade rest against the bottom of the windshield. Where the pivot had to go was where the wiring harness entered the car, and it could not be moved. That means when the wipers are parked, they are not laying against the bottom of the windshield. I put it as far to the outside as I could. I moved the passenger side blade the same distance as I moved the driver side, that way I could still use the same linkage. That put the passenger side pivot at the edge of the cowl vent (which I was planning on using.)
I got everything tacked back together and clamped the motor into position, and turned it on again. After minor adjustments to the linkage to clean the center of the vent box, I made a motor mounting plate and welded that together. I made some adjustments to the wiper arms before the final weld on them, and connected everything up. I put some water on the glass and turned the wipers on. The driver side was perfect, the passenger side had issues. The driver side wiper has a 90 degree stroke, the passenger side wiper had about 120 degree of stroke. That makes the passenger side wiper go off the side of the windshield on both sides of that 1/2 of the windshield. I would have to get another driver side wiper pivot, or modify the existing one. I chose to get another driver side pivot. I just installed that yesterday, I'm happy to report the wipers work great. The only pictures i have is of the pivot bracket. Gene

7015872-12-23-11002.JPG (265 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116554
01/13/12 01:18 AM
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pivot bracket installed.

7015876-12-23-11001.JPG (226 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116555
01/13/12 01:21 AM
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I did some reinforcing around the pivots. I still need to finish the top of the vent box cover, but that is not a high priority at this point. One last picture. Gene

7015882-12-23-11003.JPG (228 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116556
01/13/12 01:33 AM
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Thought maybe you guys might want to see what the car looked like a couple weeks ago. Gene

7015901-001.JPG (481 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116557
01/13/12 01:34 AM
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Front

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Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116558
01/13/12 01:35 AM
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driver side

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Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116559
01/13/12 01:41 AM
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Rear view. The rear bumper is going to look like the front bumper. Between the fenders on the side, under the doors will be a nerf bar on both sides, and I think eventually the car will be painted with a white nose and roof and a blue back 1/2 with the parting line starting about the center of the door and going around the back under the rear window. Next installment-door glass. Gene

7015913-004.JPG (212 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #2249846
02/08/17 06:53 PM
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A bit of update, and to bring it to the top.
Since 1 of 2012, the rear bumper was fabricated like the front bumper. The car went to the Vintage Torquefest in Iowa in May 2012. It has been on the road every summer since. So far, its traveled around 20,000 miles. I did replace the original 3.9 with another 3.9 that was in better shape. It was painted with enamel paint 4 years ago (I'll post pictures of it after the paint). Some of the paint has been touched up, the wheels are now blue, and the front bumper is also blue. The number is for PS 117.

Last June (2016) the car made the trip to CO then up into the Black Hills of SD, around 4,000 miles. We stayed off the interstate as much as we could. The car got 22.8 mpg over the whole trip, and consistanly gets mid 17 mpg combination driving. The V6 will pull it along as fast as you want to go, but it feels like your pushing it above 75-80. Cruises very nicely at 65-70.

It is a comfortable ride between 40 degrees and about 85. It has heat & defrosters that kick butt, but there are still enough air drafts through the body it make it uncomfortable when the temp is below 40. There is no AC, just windows down. It gets a bit warm above 85, if your stopped for any reason. The car drives great, and it is fun to drive. The V6 5 speed can get a chirp in 3rd if I'm really trying, but usually I'm happy to get a small chirp in 2nd (nearly always, when there are no cops around). Makes it fun, and keeps me out of trouble.
I do have pictures of the heater box, and dash build that happened back in 2011 (I found some pictures on a camera disc).

white & blue coupe 1.jpgwhite & blue coupe 2.jpg
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #2313456
05/30/17 11:15 AM
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Poorboy, very nice work you did adapting much of the Dakota to this 48 Plymouth. The body lines are nearly identical to my 1940 Chrysler. I am fortunate that the Body on it is in much better condition than what you had to work with.

Very inspriring....thanks for posting this build.

Mike

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Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #2313902
05/30/17 11:42 PM
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Mike,
The bottom 6" of the 48 is suppose to flair out to meet the fenders. The 46-48 Mopars are nor running board cars. Mine had the passenger side already cut off by a previous owner, the drivers side was still present, but it was so thin you could bend the metal with your fingers (of course, there were no rockers or floor on either side). I cut the driver side flair off. Rather then go through the effort of reshaping the body flair, I just ran it straight down when I built the new rockers, like the 41 body is. If you look close, you can see the kicker bars under the doors are attached to a flat piece of sheet metal where both the front and rear fenders still have the flair out that was suppose to match the body.

Other then the lower body flair, the two cars are pretty close to being the same. I believe 40 was the first of the "new" design. Then the 41s were slightly revised. 42 was another revision where I think they added the body flair. WWII stopped auto production in Dec 41, and civilian production didn't resume until late 45, which would have been the 46 model year. Very little changes were made between the 42 and the 46-48 model years. 48 was suppose to be a new model, but some issue came up and it was delayed until about mid year, Mopar called the new cars mid 48 or early 49 model year cars. Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #2314513
06/01/17 11:35 AM
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Poorboy, it looks like you re-used the Dakota wiring since you kept the fire wall and floor pan? That would make sense to me to do that.

I am considering using most of the firewall from a 1996 Dakota extended cab long box we found. The floor in the 1940 is very good so I will keep it intact. From this post it looks like I will need to move the eng/trans so that front wheel center to firewall matches what the 1940 is. I will probably frame shorten where you did as well.


Your thoughts?

Mike


2008 Challenger SRT8
1940 Chrysler Royal coupe
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #2314892
06/01/17 11:41 PM
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When I did my car, the original floor was nonexistent. The Dakota frame has a kick up behind the cab you will need to address. Since I had no floor, the kick up was not an issue to me, but if you have a good floor, that Dakota frame rises up about 8" (maybe more, or less) just behind the cab and remains that additional 8" higher to the back bumper.

Before I started, I parked the Dakota next to the coupe to compare the placement of things.

With both sets of front tires lined up, if I moved the Dakota cab back on the frame 7" (I believe), that placed both firewalls in line with each other.

I moved the Dakota's drive train (V6, 5 speed in my case) back the same distance. I added a 1/4" plate under both motor mounts and simply moved them back. I was also able to move the trans crossmember back. I had to extend the step the trans crossmember sat on back a couple of inches on one side (I don't remember which side) with a piece of angle iron welded in place. That allowed me to drill new holes for the bolts and the crossmember bolted up like normal on the new extension. I also used the Dakota radiator support. I had to move it back the same distance as the drive train. I had to make new ears to mount the radiator support to. My coupe radiator support was also junk. You will probably want to use your coupes rad support, so how you mount it will likely be different then how I did mine.

I also removed the Dakota front frame horns where kick out in front of the front crossmember. I fabricated new front frame horns inline with the rest of the frame rails from flat 1/8" thick metal. The frame horns only have to support the front bumper.

I shortened the Dakota frame just behind where the cab mounts so the wheel base would match. I also had to cut the Dakota rear frame rails off just behind the rear spring hangers.

It sounds like a lot of work, but once the sheet metal is pulled from the Dakota and the coupe, it should be pretty easy to see what needs to be done.

If the back 1/2 of your frame is good, you may want to consider just using the front 1/2 of the Dakota frame. That would avoid the floor issue with the Dakota frame kick up and your cars good floor pan. I did a front clip on a 39 Plymouth (which was the first with like suspension and frames), the Dakota frame slips inside the 39 frame very nicely at about the firewall. If you cut the Dakota behind the trans crossmember, you should be able to remove your frame's X frame support (if your car still has one) and box between the Dakota and the original frame. You would still need to lift off your body, but afterwards you can keep your original floor pan.

Doing a clip is a pretty serious undertaking. Measure 4 times, make sure you have reference points for length, width, center, and height off the floor, on both the new clip and the old back frame, then cut very slowly. Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #2315035
06/02/17 11:22 AM
06/02/17 11:22 AM
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Poorboy, fantastic information. I think we will be doing a frame splice at the firewall, keeping original frame under the body, per your suggestion.

Next question; You kept all the wiring from the Dakota and transferred to the 48. Did you have any issues, or had to modify slightly? I am thinking it should be easy for most part, hoping the wiring to the 3.9 is same as if a 5.2 was there.

We are going Sunday to buy a 1996 extended cab long box Dakota 3.9 auto. Its on the road plated so it should be a good donor.

Mike


2008 Challenger SRT8
1940 Chrysler Royal coupe
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: shaker340] #2315054
06/02/17 12:10 PM
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moparx  Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,237
north of coder
i am super impressed what gene [poorboy] did with that coupe/dak combo. up his advice should be heeded for a good outcome.
beer

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #2315390
06/03/17 12:21 AM
06/03/17 12:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,485
Freeport IL USA
poorboy Online content OP
I Live Here
poorboy  Online Content OP
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,485
Freeport IL USA
Because of the way my coupe body was rusted away, I basically have a complete Dakota with the 48 Plymouth sheet metal. Think a big model kit, you have a chassis, and you set the body on top of it then you get the picture of what my 48 Plymouth really is. As such, I didn't have to change anything in the Dakota wiring because I used nearly everything in the Dakota.

That said, If you get into the OBDI Dakota wire harness, the engine management wiring is pretty well stand alone. Much of the additional wiring is stuff you will probably be using anyway (lights, turn signals and such), but if you feel you must, you can remove everything you don't want, one circuit at a time, as long as you don't get into the computer controlled stuff.

The Dakota OBDII is slightly more complex, but the Dakota version is still pretty much a stand alone system, (full size truck is a different critter) don't remove anything the computer controls. If the Dakota you are using has an overhead information center, the wiring to it is pretty complex and ties into some of the computer sensors, if your not keeping it, remove the wires carefully.

You will have to deal with the efi fuel pump in an old tank if you don't use the Dakota tank. On my son's 57 Dodge we used a late 80s GMC Jimmy fuel tank and the GM fuel pump and added a return flow fuel pump regulator. The Jimmy tank is about 18 gal and is a bit easier to deal with then a Dakota tank, and the GM stuff, including the additional regulator is less then 1/2 the cost of Dodge stuff. It puts out a little more pressure then the Dodge stuff, hence the reason for the regulator.

On my coupe I removed the carbon canister and its related wiring, relays, switches and vacuum lines. The motor still functions well, but on occasion it will light the "Check Engine" light for the computer not receiving the proper signals from the missing evac system. It doesn't effect engine operation, but the light can be irritating. The system was something I choose not to find room for under the hood.

I also eliminated the ABS system and assorted brake lines and stuff and removed the bulb from the dash just in case.

I did have to disconnect the idle up solenoid because it would up the rpm at start up, but wouldn't return it back down to normal after start up. I tried a different used solenoid but got the same results. I set it to the RPM I wanted and unplugged it. I suspect part of the issue is the lack of the Evac system. Unplugging the solenoid had worked for me for 5 years and around 30,000 miles.

As far as I have read, you have to wire in 2 more injector pigtails when going from the V6 to a V8. Someone on here explained how that was done not long ago. Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #2316476
06/05/17 10:15 AM
06/05/17 10:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 425
Eastern Ontario
shaker340 Offline
mopar
shaker340  Offline
mopar

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 425
Eastern Ontario
Poorboy, we bought the 1996 Dakota, it has the 3.9 V6 and auto.

Do you know if the Dakota Eng computer will understand that there are two more injector pigtails added? Would the eng computer be same as the one in V8 models? If it is the same, this would make things a lot simpler.

Mike

Last edited by shaker340; 06/05/17 10:16 AM.

2008 Challenger SRT8
1940 Chrysler Royal coupe
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: shaker340] #2316956
06/06/17 12:36 AM
06/06/17 12:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,485
Freeport IL USA
poorboy Online content OP
I Live Here
poorboy  Online Content OP
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,485
Freeport IL USA
Originally Posted By shaker340
Poorboy, we bought the 1996 Dakota, it has the 3.9 V6 and auto.

Do you know if the Dakota Eng computer will understand that there are two more injector pigtails added? Would the eng computer be same as the one in V8 models? If it is the same, this would make things a lot simpler.

Mike


Mike, Because I have no idea how to link a thread to here, I going to sent you:

Truck section. Towards the bottom of page 3. Thread titled "94 Dakota V6 to 5.9"

The thread isn't exactly what you looking for, but the info for adding another pigtail is there and spelled out pretty clearly. The thread only has 8 replies, read them all.
Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #2317063
06/06/17 10:46 AM
06/06/17 10:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 425
Eastern Ontario
shaker340 Offline
mopar
shaker340  Offline
mopar

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 425
Eastern Ontario
Poorboy thanks for the link. It did help and I was also able to find information on other websites.

In short, yes you add two pigtails to the V6 harness in correct position on the white connector and use the 99 PCM to use with the 5.2l with the 46RE trans.

Mike


2008 Challenger SRT8
1940 Chrysler Royal coupe
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