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Re: 604 ci Users.
[Re: poppaj]
#1112540
11/15/11 03:25 AM
11/15/11 03:25 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,021
NY
B1duster
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,021
NY
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Quote:
You can run a 4.75 x 4.500 (604) and you can use aluminum rods, they must be the radiused Bill Miller version or equivelent. I have discussed this combo with Scott Koffel. He has built several. poppaj 
 I think its a pretty common combo, mine has GRP rods.
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Re: 604 ci Users.
[Re: John Burdine]
#1112541
11/15/11 09:10 AM
11/15/11 09:10 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 298
Shelton, Ct.
572_HEMI_Cuda
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 298
Shelton, Ct.
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Quote:
Quote:
I have a 604" Hemi, Stage V heads, Hogan w/ 2 small vac sec carbs. Car weighs 3210, shift at 7200 cross at 7350. 4.10 gears, bruno drive, 3 speed jeffco, 33" x 10.5" x 16" Hoosiers.
Ran 8.46 @ 161 so far. Going to send converter back to lenny this winter to tighten it up.
Just curious, is thier a reason for the 2 4150 carbs?
I guess to keep it legal in NSS even though my car is a 1971. One day I'll put some big carbs on it.
So no one else runs a 604"? Wedge or Hemi? I know HemiFred has one, his motor and car build was highly documented on here. I've seen pics of the car at the track, maybe he will chime in with some performance numbers.
Anyone else?
Thanks...
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Re: 604 ci Users.
[Re: 572_HEMI_Cuda]
#1112542
11/15/11 09:18 AM
11/15/11 09:18 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
deaks
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
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Tig
Have you ever thought about taking a bit of weight out of the car, i dont mean chopping it around, just bolt on stuff.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: 604 ci Users.
[Re: B1duster]
#1112543
11/15/11 09:48 AM
11/15/11 09:48 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Quote:
You can run a 4.75 x 4.500 (604) and you can use aluminum rods, they must be the radiused Bill Miller version or equivelent. I have discussed this combo with Scott Koffel. He has built several. poppaj
I think its a pretty common combo, mine has GRP rods.
So you guys are saying you can use the 4.75 stroke crank in a standard cam location block, with aluminum rods? I don't think so. My 4.50 stroke needed clearancing on the rods with a standard cam block, 2.325 pin, with GRP's. Even at 2.200 it would only be .125 more clearance.
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Re: 604 ci Users.
[Re: camastomcat]
#1112544
11/15/11 02:56 PM
11/15/11 02:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 627
IN
BIG BEAR
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 627
IN
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You can run a 4.75 x 4.500 (604) and you can use aluminum rods, they must be the radiused Bill Miller version or equivelent. I have discussed this combo with Scott Koffel. He has built several. poppaj
I think its a pretty common combo, mine has GRP rods.
So you guys are saying you can use the 4.75 stroke crank in a standard cam location block, with aluminum rods? I don't think so. My 4.50 stroke needed clearancing on the rods with a standard cam block, 2.325 pin, with GRP's. Even at 2.200 it would only be .125 more clearance.
This guy did 
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Re: 604 ci Users.
[Re: Fast Yeti]
#1112546
11/16/11 10:00 AM
11/16/11 10:00 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Perhaps you can make a 4.75 stroke fit with aluminum rods and a 2.200 pin size, but you would need to take a lot off in a crtical area of the rod, IMO. And the question was, is it worth it for 572-13 heads? I would say no, and it would add a lot of expense for very little gain. As I started to say, you can do anything you are willing to pay for, but the expense involved is not worth it. If you want a high horsepower 1100+ combo, contact Pete at Best or Diablo. They have proven combos for sale, and that's not as easy to do as some people try to make it sound, at least not naturally asprirated.
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Re: 604 ci Users.
[Re: Tig]
#1112547
11/16/11 10:17 AM
11/16/11 10:17 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 428
wappinger falls new york
Jimi_Vignogna
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 428
wappinger falls new york
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hello tig ,i ran a cast iron head 604 hemi in my savoy a few years ago, great street strip combo, car was 3800#, 29.5 11.5 15 hoosier qtp., 4:10 gear, ultimate 9" tc 3500 stall, tti 2 1/4" headers 4"collectors, 4" x pipe exhaust to rear of car, single dominator,barton intake, cam was roller 112 lobe sep..670 lift etc.
the car would go 1.40 1.43 60' on the dot's, run 9.80'sat 137.00 all day long,once i got it in the car it needed very little maintenence,
only problem i had was after i bought the junk indy legend heads,the 510 cfm adv. was about 10% off low lift was ok although. the heads had two chambers machined out of place and the pistons hit. naturally russ did not want to make good on anything.cant understand how indy stays in business.
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Re: 604 ci Users.
[Re: Jimi_Vignogna]
#1112548
11/16/11 11:35 AM
11/16/11 11:35 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
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Quote:
hello tig ,i ran a cast iron head 604 hemi in my savoy a few years ago, great street strip combo, car was 3800#, 29.5 11.5 15 hoosier qtp., 4:10 gear, ultimate 9" tc 3500 stall, tti 2 1/4" headers 4"collectors, 4" x pipe exhaust to rear of car, single dominator,barton intake, cam was roller 112 lobe sep..670 lift etc.
the car would go 1.40 1.43 60' on the dot's, run 9.80'sat 137.00 all day long,once i got it in the car it needed very little maintenence,
only problem i had was after i bought the junk indy legend heads,the 510 cfm adv. was about 10% off low lift was ok although. the heads had two chambers machined out of place and the pistons hit. naturally russ did not want to make good on anything.cant understand how indy stays in business.
That sounds like a fun car and.......
With Eric's Stage V heads, in multiple configurations, there is absolutely no reason to waste money on lesser products.
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Re: 604 ci Users.
[Re: Tig]
#1112549
11/16/11 12:25 PM
11/16/11 12:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,983
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I have a very well worked over set of 440-1 heads with 2.300 intakes, which are the same casting as a 572-13 with the following exceptions. Moved exhuast valve to allow a 2.30 or 2.35 intake valve. rolled 2 degrees for a touch better breathing. Those heads have been a touch better at making power over a 440-1, but not a lot. They just don't have the port csa or volume to feed a BIG motor. My guess is they will be pretty much all done increasing power by using a 572 cube shortblock. I run 528 cubes under my 440-1s and I don't see many guys running that much faster per weight carried, and with 572 to 578 cubes.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: 604 ci Users.
[Re: gregsdart]
#1112550
11/16/11 03:23 PM
11/16/11 03:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
Tig
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
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Thanks for all the replies. I'll outline the dilemma. I want to go faster, I thought I could do it with more cubes and the block and top end I'm using now. Plan was to buy another set of -13 heads (since then I can use all the other stuff I have) and get them cnc ported. But I was going to buy another set of heads anyway, Predators are out of the question I think they'll work out too expensive for me, and I think the same for the B1 TS. Not sure about PSO's though, I've no experience. Should I keep developing the 572 or go to 604.  Seems like the heads I have are holding me back  Also can anyone tell me if headers that fit -13 will fit B1 MC's? (or PSO's)? I don't want a Hi RPM race gas motor. We've gone 6.1 @ 114 1/8th 9.57 @ 142 1/4 @ the weight in sig. I shift @ 6500 and motor goes to 6800 at the stripe. 4 figure HP would be nice since we think we're around 850hp given the times, MPH and weight (Cars been weighed on 4 scales now all within 40lb). Thanks again. Cheers. Tig
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: 604 ci Users.
[Re: Tig]
#1112551
11/16/11 04:58 PM
11/16/11 04:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 698
Alberta Canada
Edge
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 698
Alberta Canada
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Hard to comment without understanding what your goals are for your car. Do you have an ET or MPH goal in mind ?
76 Duster
work in progress
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Re: 604 ci Users.
[Re: Edge]
#1112552
11/16/11 05:22 PM
11/16/11 05:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
Tig
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
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8.99 150 mph
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: 604 ci Users.
[Re: Tig]
#1112553
11/16/11 05:39 PM
11/16/11 05:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,664
North Sweden
RT540
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,664
North Sweden
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Quote:
I don't want a Hi RPM race gas motor.
You also want to keep the budget down.
I would get the best cnc B1 originals with 2.30 Tit. valves with PSI or equalent high quality springs with 360-400psi seat pressure. Cam with 0.850 lift, T&D rockers.
Stay at 572cui square engine.
Start with single intake for an possible 1000hp with the right parts compr. and cam and later upgrade to sheet metal intake for a 50hp increase ( twin domin.)
Staying with 2.30 valve at 572cui will keep the rpm lower.
Tom
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Re: 604 ci Users.
[Re: Jimi_Vignogna]
#1112554
11/16/11 05:58 PM
11/16/11 05:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169
Virginia Beach, VA
Old School
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169
Virginia Beach, VA
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(quote)
only problem i had was after i bought the junk indy legend heads,the 510 cfm adv. was about 10% off low lift was ok although. the heads had two chambers machined out of place and the pistons hit. naturally russ did not want to make good on anything.cant understand how indy stays in business.
I have bought 5 sets of heads from Indy. The last set was SR 295 CNC'D from Indy. I paid extra to have them mill the heads for a 63CC chamber. This was approximately 4 years ago. At the same time I put a roller cam in the motor, same as my other 500" motors, this motor never performed the way it should. I always thought it was down around 75-100 hp. I tried everything, including asking for help on the site, just gave up and drove it as is. It ran fine, just low on power. I dropped a valve, a few months ago. so I had to rebuild the motor. Come to find out, the heads that I bought from Indy and paid to have milled, were never milled. I never checked the cc of the chamber when I got the heads, but did during the re-build. They were around 78CC, it made my compression about 9.5 - 1.
When I called Indy and talked to Russ about this, I had the receipt, and he said there was nothing they could do about it, since it was a few years. He also took tone with me and it seemed to me he was implying I was making it up. I have purchased over $40,000 worth of Indy products directly from Indy. You would think that would mean something to them. I will never buy from Indy again. Everything I have read about them appears to be true. My next motor will have NO Indy parts. I also do not see how they stay in business.
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME)
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
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Re: 604 ci Users.
[Re: Old School]
#1112556
11/16/11 06:16 PM
11/16/11 06:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 698
Alberta Canada
Edge
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 698
Alberta Canada
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Boost sounds like the best plan to me. I have a 572 B1 that is pretty much described above and I am not sure that it would meet your goals for your car but it might be close. I would not go to the 604 with the -13 heads, but what do I know I have not made a pass in a year and a half !
76 Duster
work in progress
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Re: 604 ci Users.
[Re: Edge]
#1112557
11/16/11 07:07 PM
11/16/11 07:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
Tig
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,915
A shed in England
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Quote:
Boost sounds like the best plan to me.
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: 604 ci Users.
[Re: Tig]
#1112558
11/16/11 07:14 PM
11/16/11 07:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,351
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,351
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Tig...to go 8s and not use nitrous, I'd go w/ a procharger. That's exactly what I'd be doing if I had the money. Use your current motor, just boost it. You can make STUPID power w/ a procharger on that motor of yours. I prefer the blower over a turbo just for simplicity. Just my 
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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